Freemasons.....

[MMC]

Some of the Founding Fathers were Freemasons. Freemasons believed men of different religions that believed in God could agree to come together as a social network. Yet would not discuss openly religion and or politics. Creating a support network.

What do you know about the Freemasons? Did the Constitution include laws that were part of the Freemason Ideaology? Myself I have learned several things about the group but never really studied them. Course I have seen some Documentaries on them and I know that Washington, Revere, Franklin, and Benedict Arnold were all Freemasons.

Lets see what we can discover and who today in any parties are FreeMasons. Something we can all work on here. See where the discussion takes us. :smiley:

[roadmaster]

I don't support them. Watch out for secret organizations, jmho.

[Mister D]

There is a lodge nearby.

[MMC]

There is a lodge nearby.

Ever talk to any Freemason?

[MMC]

I don't support them. Watch out for secret organizations, jmho.


What do you know about them RM? Or why would you consider them secret, nowadays? I mean I think they were in their beginnings.

[Mister D]

Ever talk to any Freemason?

Nope. I see people with lodge bumper stickers and they donate around here quite a bit from what I understand. I don't personally know any Masons though

[Mister D]

I'm sure much of what is said about the Masons in nonsense. Secretive or private organizations like that tend to develop a mystique. We had one idiot on here worried about Opus Dei, for example.

[MMC]

Nope. I see people with lodge bumper stickers and they donate around here quite a bit from what I understand. I don't personally know any Masons though

I have seen the same and some even down the block from me. Also we have some lodges around us. But even as a Vet, I have never talked to one. Not even with common generalities.

[Conley]

I probably know some and don't even realize it. I think they're harmless and many probably do a lot for the community.

We had a guy sign up here the other day who is one, if he comes back you guys could ask him about it:

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/3368-Just-dropping-a-line

[MMC]

I'm sure much of what is said about the Masons in nonsense. Secretive or private organizations like that tend to develop a mystique. We had one idiot on here worried about Opus Dei, for example.


I remember seeing something on the discovery channel about Franklin being spied upon by other founding fathers that were masons. As they were worried when he was out partying that he liked to talk. But that later Franklin would be the grand Poohbah of the Pennsylvania lodges.

[MMC]

I probably know some and don't even realize it. I think they're harmless and many probably do a lot for the community.

We had a guy sign up here the other day who is one, if he comes back you guys could ask him about it:

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/3368-Just-dropping-a-line

So what do you know about them? I am sure that guy can join and let us know some things. But I doubt he can tell me what you know. :evil:

[Conley]

So what do you know about them? I am sure that guy can join and let us know some things. But I doubt he can tell me what you know. :evil:

:laugh: I know nothing!

The fraternity is widely involved in charity and community service activities. In contemporary times, money is collected only from the membership, and is to be devoted to charitable purposes. Freemasonry worldwide disburses substantial charitable amounts to non-Masonic charities, locally, nationally and internationally.[49][50] In earlier centuries, however, charitable funds were collected more on the basis of a Provident or Friendly Society, and there were elaborate regulations to determine a petitioner's eligibility for consideration for charity, according to strictly Masonic criteria.

Some examples of Masonic charities include:

Homes[51] that provide sheltered housing or nursing care.
Education with both educational grants[52] or schools such as the Royal Masonic School (UK)[53] which are open to all and not limited to the families of Freemasons.
Medical assistance.[54]
Masonic Child Identification Programs (CHIP).
In addition to these, there are thousands of philanthropic organisations around the world created by Freemasons. The Masonic Service Association,[55] the Masonic Medical Research Laboratory,[56] and the Shriners Hospitals for Children[57] are especially notable charitable endeavours that Masons have founded and continue to support both intellectually and monetarily.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry#Charitable_effort

Those Shriners Hospitals for Children are great.

[MMC]

:laugh: I know nothing!

The fraternity is widely involved in charity and community service activities. In contemporary times, money is collected only from the membership, and is to be devoted to charitable purposes. Freemasonry worldwide disburses substantial charitable amounts to non-Masonic charities, locally, nationally and internationally.[49][50] In earlier centuries, however, charitable funds were collected more on the basis of a Provident or Friendly Society, and there were elaborate regulations to determine a petitioner's eligibility for consideration for charity, according to strictly Masonic criteria.

Some examples of Masonic charities include:

Homes[51] that provide sheltered housing or nursing care.
Education with both educational grants[52] or schools such as the Royal Masonic School (UK)[53] which are open to all and not limited to the families of Freemasons.
Medical assistance.[54]
Masonic Child Identification Programs (CHIP).
In addition to these, there are thousands of philanthropic organisations around the world created by Freemasons. The Masonic Service Association,[55] the Masonic Medical Research Laboratory,[56] and the Shriners Hospitals for Children[57] are especially notable charitable endeavours that Masons have founded and continue to support both intellectually and monetarily.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry#Charitable_effort

Those Shriners Hospitals for Children are great.


Yeah we have the Shriners come in here too. We have St Judes Hospital and Childrens Memorial Hospital. The latter who Blago got busted trying to fleece for money.

[roadmaster]

Ok I will try to explain. Paganistic religion has been a large contributor to masonic ritual. but so has what you would call maybe religious undertones. Religious undertones doesn't always mean Christ. I am not saying that a Christian cannot be a member if you have a friend that is. Ask them questions first because I am leery of having to swear an oath of silence to any place. Ask them their views on the scripture. As them if they follow Jesus.

Yes, my husband I were asked to join around around 20 years ago and yes I know some. Asking questions helps one determine if you want to join or not. We chose not to but at first it sounded good. Most of the time they don't want you to ask too many questions.

But I repeat I am not saying a friend of your ect is bad if they are a member just saying ask questions. :smiley:

[Conley]

Ok I will try to explain. Paganistic religion has been a large contributor to masonic ritual. but so has what you would call maybe religious undertones. Religious undertones doesn't always mean Christ. I am not saying that a Christian cannot be a member if you have a friend that is. Ask them questions first because I am leery of having to swear an oath of silence to any place. Ask them their views on the scripture. As them if they follow Jesus.

Yes, my husband I asked to join around around 20 years ago and yes I know some. Asking questions helps one determine if you want to join or not. We chose not to but at first it sounded good. Most of the time they don't want you to ask too many questions.

But I repeat I am not saying a friend of your ect is bad if they are a member just saying ask questions. :smiley:

Thanks for the background. I don't have any close friends who are, as far as I know. Probably some acquaintances though.

[KSigMason]

To the OP, yes, some of the Founding Fathers were Masons. Here is a breakdown:

9 of the 56 (or 16%) Signers of the Declaration of Independence were Freemasons.
13 of the 39 (or 33%) Signers of the US Constitution were Freemasons
33 of the 74 (or 46%) Generals serving under George Washington were Freemasons.



Some other notable Freemasons during the Revolution and early years of of Freemasonry were as follows:

Paul Revere, Joseph Warren, William Davis, John Paul Jones (Father of the US Navy), Sam Nicholas (Father of the US Marines), Robert Livingston, and Ethan Allen.



In Lodge we don't discuss politics or religion because it has the potential to cause animosity in the Lodge and we are about keeping harmony in the Lodge.

I know quite a bit, but I'm always learning new things.

Some people believe that the Freemasons had some obvious influence in the US Constitution. Such things like Freedom of Religion and some other things like the structure of government, and that it governs at the consent of the governed. According to the Alice Von Kannon "For my money, the most powerful Masonic influence on America as a whole was Anderson’s Constitutions."

Fun fact, Benjamin Franklin printed the Anderson's Constitution in America making in the first Masonic book printed in the US.

[KSigMason]

I don't support them. Watch out for secret organizations, jmho.
If we were such a secret society, people wouldn't have numberless Masonic websites. It doesn't take much to find where Masons meet and when.

Secrecy isn't a bad thing, but the word has become taboo over nonsense.

Ironically, today we have the right to stay private, but back in the day it was necessary because free-thinking was prohibited and persecuted.


Ok I will try to explain. Paganistic religion has been a large contributor to masonic ritual.
Ironically the legend and ritual of Craft Masonry (the first 3 degrees) is based upon the building of King Solomon's Temple. Then the appendant bodies (York and Scottish Rite) have many remnants of the Old and New Testament in it. Then you have the "frat" of the Freemasons, the Shriners, who are most known for their children's hospitals.

Here is the "tree of Freemasonry"

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l70/IDARNG_Loki/STRUCTURE.gif
Kind of a mess. Please note I couldn't include each and every degree that some of these bodies have as the Holy Royal Arch Knights Templar Priests have 33, the Red Cross of Constantine has 5, and so on.


I am not saying that a Christian cannot be a member if you have a friend that is.
To be in the Templar Orders of the York Rite, one must be a Christian. The Blue Lodge/Craft Masonry (the first 3 degrees) and the Scottish Rite doesn't require a particular faith.


Ask them questions first because I am leery of having to swear an oath of silence to any place.
They are not really oaths of silence, but rather ones of fidelity and integrity.


Yes, my husband I were asked to join around around 20 years ago and yes I know some.
I'm not saying it didn't happen, but Masons should never solicit or ask someone to join. One must join of their own free will and accord...and women are not allowed to join the Masons. They can join the Order of the Eastern Star (OES).

I encourage people to ask questions. There's nothing wrong with asking questions.

[MMC]

Great Information KSM.....thanks for bringing us some more incite. Naturally I have seen the Episodes on the History Channel and a couple of documentaries.

[KSigMason]

Great Information KSM.....thanks for bringing us some more incite. Naturally I have seen the Episodes on the History Channel and a couple of documentaries.
No problem at all. I do enjoy the History and Discovery Channel specials on Freemasonry. The most recent one I've seen is the Freemason episode on America's Book of Secrets (H2). Some of what those anti-Masons say is pretty entertaining, particularly that David Icke guy.

[MMC]

No problem at all. I do enjoy the History and Discovery Channel specials on Freemasonry. The most recent one I've seen is the Freemason episode on America's Book of Secrets (H2). Some of what those anti-Masons say is pretty entertaining, particularly that David Icke guy.


The last I saw something on them was with that Show Decoded with Meltzer or whatever his name is. We have thread some where on those guys too.

[gamewell45]

Ok I will try to explain. Paganistic religion has been a large contributor to masonic ritual. but so has what you would call maybe religious undertones. Religious undertones doesn't always mean Christ. I am not saying that a Christian cannot be a member if you have a friend that is. Ask them questions first because I am leery of having to swear an oath of silence to any place. Ask them their views on the scripture. As them if they follow Jesus.

Yes, my husband I were asked to join around around 20 years ago and yes I know some. Asking questions helps one determine if you want to join or not. We chose not to but at first it sounded good. Most of the time they don't want you to ask too many questions.

But I repeat I am not saying a friend of your ect is bad if they are a member just saying ask questions. :smiley:

Highly unlikely unless your were asked to join a clandestine group. In mainstream Freemasonry, women cannot be members; it is only open to men. And if as you maintain, they dont want you to ask questions, then they must have been a clandestine group. There are a couple of hundred groups claiming to be Freemasons, but are fakes.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/member.htm

[Conley]

Welcome to the site Gamewell45.

Thanks for the added information.

[Frogger]

Now you know at least a few Freemasons.

KSigMason, as his handle implies is a very dedicated Freemason and I am a 32nd degree mason and past master of a Masonic lodge and a Scottish Rite Mason.

Masonry is a fraternal organization that believes in a Supreme Being, usually refered to as the Grand Architect of the Universe. No particular religion or sect is honored above others but in order to become a member you must profess a belief in a Supreme Being.

As a group, American Masons give more than one million dollars a day to charity.

[MMC]

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=I4874075498218550&pid=1.1

Greetings Gamewell45.....Welcome to the Political Forums of the Rant. :yo2:

[roadmaster]

Highly unlikely unless your were asked to join a clandestine group. In mainstream Freemasonry, woman cannot be members; it is only open to men. And if as you maintain, they dont want you to ask questions, then they must have been a clandestine group. There are a couple of hundred groups claiming to be Freemasons, but are fakes.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/member.htm

Ok but do you have to swear an oath? You may be correct, they were friends of my spouse the ones that asked.

[Frogger]

As a Free and Accepted Mason I will never ask you to become a fellow Mason. You would have to ask me if you could join. Freemasonry is steeped in tradition and there are certain rituals one must participate in to become a Mason. While we do not talk about these rituals in public information about them and the actual wording of the rituals themselves can be found both in books and online.

[KSigMason]

KSigMason, as his handle implies is a very dedicated Freemason and I am a 32nd degree mason and past master of a Masonic lodge and a Scottish Rite Mason.
Good to see ya Brother!

[wingrider]

I'm sure much of what is said about the Masons in nonsense. Secretive or private organizations like that tend to develop a mystique. We had one idiot on here worried about Opus Dei, for example.
was that before or after the movie with Tom Hanks about the vatican cant remember if it was the Mary Magdeline one or the one after that,,

[gamewell45]

Ok but do you have to swear an oath? You may be correct, they were friends of my spouse the ones that asked.

There is an obligation one must take, the contents of which I cannot disclose to you. However if you visit the website I supplied to you, most of your questions will be answered.

[roadmaster]

There is an obligation one must take, the contents of which I cannot disclose to you. However if you visit the website I supplied to you, most of your questions will be answered.

I knew of the website and know of the craft. Also know Christians that are no longer Masons. I don't need you to disclose them to me and the higher up you are the more you know.


I was just trying to let others know if they had a friend that was a Mason that it didn't mean they were bad people but to ask questions if they are Christians to understand things.

[Frogger]

I am a devout Christian and see no conflict in also being a Freemason.

[gamewell45]

I am a devout Christian and see no conflict in also being a Freemason.

There are some Christian groups in which membership in freemasonry is forbidden; the Catholic Church and some Baptist sect's come to mind.

[Conley]

There are some Christian groups in which membership in freemasonry is forbidden; the Catholic Church and some Baptist sect's come to mind.

Interesting - what is the reasoning for that, do you know?

[Goldie Locks]

Is the skull and bones the same or similar to freemasons?

[gamewell45]

Interesting - what is the reasoning for that, do you know?

I know that the Catholic Church forbids membership in Freemasonry because it goes against the teachings of the church.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/catholics.htm

The Southern Baptists likewise have their reasons claiming among others incompatibility with the bible.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/holly.htm

[gamewell45]

Is the skull and bones the same or similar to freemasons?

I don't know much about skull and bones; only that they have no ties to recognized Freemasonry.

[KSigMason]

I knew of the website and know of the craft.
I don't want to start off on the wrong foot nor sound like a dick, but do you really think that second hand information trumps my first hand experience?

What website?


Also know Christians that are no longer Masons.
Men join and leave Freemasonry for various reasons. I know of many former Masons that I still have a great deal of respect for and there are some that leave who lose my respect with their malice.


I was just trying to let others know if they had a friend that was a Mason that it didn't mean they were bad people but to ask questions if they are Christians to understand things.
I am a Christian and nothing in Freemasonry contradicts my faith. Obviously people disagree with me.


Interesting - what is the reasoning for that, do you know?
Well, the first condemnation came from the Roman Catholic Church about a year after the said delivery of Ramsey's Oration (http://www.travelingtemplar.com/2011/08/creation-theories-of-masonic-templary_31.html). IMO, the church feared free thinkers and tolerance of other religions.


Is the skull and bones the same or similar to freemasons?
It is a collegiate fraternal order, but has no ties to the Masonic fraternity. There may be some cross over membership.

[Conley]

Thanks for the history KSig, I'll take a look at your blog.

[KSigMason]

Thanks for the history KSig, I'll take a look at your blog.
Thanks. I do like a shameless plug for my blog once in a while. :D

I love the study of the vague and foggy history of Freemasonry.

Surprisingly one of my favorite books is Freemasons for Dummies, The Complete Idiots Guide to Freemasonry, and the Compasses and the Cross. A ton of great information in those three.

[MMC]

I want to thank all you FreeMasons for the info and what you have shared. Do any of you members think FreeMasonry helped in the Progression of Ideas for this Country?

What can you tell of us of the Subject of Washington DC being built with regards to this Group?

[roadmaster]

I don't want to start off on the wrong foot nor sound like a dick, but do you really think that second hand information trumps my first hand experience?

What website?

The website you provided. Tell me why do they just give out pamphlets to new ones and books to the older ones? You are wrong I am not cutting you down. As I stated I do have some friends in the Masons.

[wingrider]

I have a friend that is a mason.. that sucker can lay blocks pretty darn good

[Conley]

I have a friend that is a mason.. that sucker can lay blocks pretty darn good

Sounds like me on a basketball court...I do nothing but shoot bricks and get blocked. :undecided:

[KSigMason]

Do any of you members think FreeMasonry helped in the Progression of Ideas for this Country?
I think there was some influence.


What can you tell of us of the Subject of Washington DC being built with regards to this Group?
There were many men involved with the initial designs of DC. George Washington was the only confirmed Mason out of all of them. Thomas Jefferson came up with the idea of a grid square papttern. To this Pierre L'Enfant placed radials on it. Some of L'Enfants inspiration came from such European cities like Karlsruhe. L'Enfant was never confirmed to be a Mason, but even so Washington fired him over some disagreements. L'Enfant left America with the plans and so the job of recreating the plans fell to Andrew Ellicot and Benjamin Banneker; neither of whom were known Masons. Of course over the years, planners have made changes and added streets such as the interstate/highway system.

Placing radials on a grid square system will always generate images of various sorts. Some try to say there is a pentagram in the street designs, but fail to mention not all the streets connect to make a full and complete pentagram. You can however spell "JESUS" in the streets.


The website you provided. Tell me why do they just give out pamphlets to new ones and books to the older ones? You are wrong I am not cutting you down. As I stated I do have some friends in the Masons.
Okay, I was unsure so thank you for the clarification.

Each Lodge and Grand Lodge gives out different types of material for potential and new members. My Grand Lodge puts together a packet of pamphlets for those interested...whether they join or not. Question: What do you mean by "new ones" or "older ones"?

[wingrider]

I think there was some influence.


There were many men involved with the initial designs of DC. George Washington was the only confirmed Mason out of all of them. Thomas Jefferson came up with the idea of a grid square papttern. To this Pierre L'Enfant placed radials on it. Some of L'Enfants inspiration came from such European cities like Karlsruhe. L'Enfant was never confirmed to be a Mason, but even so Washington fired him over some disagreements. L'Enfant left America with the plans and so the job of recreating the plans fell to Andrew Ellicot and Benjamin Banneker; neither of whom were known Masons. Of course over the years, planners have made changes and added streets such as the interstate/highway system.

Placing radials on a grid square system will always generate images of various sorts. Some try to say there is a pentagram in the street designs, but fail to mention not all the streets connect to make a full and complete pentagram. You can however spell "JESUS" in the streets.


Okay, I was unsure so thank you for the clarification.

Each Lodge and Grand Lodge gives out different types of material for potential and new members. My Grand Lodge puts together a packet of pamphlets for those interested...whether they join or not. Question: What do you mean by "new ones" or "older ones"?


good post.. very informative thanks

[MMC]

What is the difference between Freemasons and Masons? I heard there is a difference might have just been speculation tho. :undecided:

[KSigMason]

What is the difference between Freemasons and Masons? I heard there is a difference might have just been speculation tho. :undecided:
I personally use "Mason" and "Freemason" interchangeably, and when I do speak of it, I mean the speculative/philosophical Mason, not the operative Mason (who lays brick and mortar for a living). I've heard arguments about the two, but I'll explain that later...I'm tired and it is late.

[ImpeachBob]

I am a devout Christian and see no conflict in also being a Freemason.
Most of the mainstream religions see Freemasonry as heretical: http://bobblackmanmp.info/heresy.html

[MMC]

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=I4518220313002817&pid=1.1

Greetings ImpeachBob.....Welcome to the Political Forums of the Rant! :yo2:

[Conley]

Welcome ImpeachBob.

[KSigMason]

I'm so glad he stopped to enlighten us with his drive-by link.

[MMC]

Think there are any Freemasons or Masons in the ME, KSM?

[KSigMason]

Think there are any Freemasons or Masons in the ME, KSM?
ME? Middle East? Yes but they often have to meet in secret as it is illegal in some Muslim countries. I had some Brothers visit Turkey, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon last Fall. One just got back from Nigeria last month. The Grand Lodge of Iran is exiled and headquartered out of LA.

[MMC]

ME? Middle East? Yes but they often have to meet in secret as it is illegal in some Muslim countries. I had some Brothers visit Turkey, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon last Fall. One just got back from Nigeria last month. The Grand Lodge of Iran is exiled and headquartered out of LA.

They had an Episode on the History Channel yesterday with material related to the Freemasons and other groups. Franklin also use to belong to a group that believed in the Plurality of Worlds. They say Jefferson and Washington too.

[KSigMason]

They had an Episode on the History Channel yesterday with material related to the Freemasons and other groups. Franklin also use to belong to a group that believed in the Plurality of Worlds. They say Jefferson and Washington too.
The History Channel has a few episodes on the Freemasons. The Discovery Channel did a big special on the Freemasons, but I wasn't that impressed.

I could see Jefferson belonging to a group like that, but I'd have to look into it more for Washington.

[birddog]

I know that the Catholic Church forbids membership in Freemasonry because it goes against the teachings of the church.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/catholics.htm

The Southern Baptists likewise have their reasons claiming among others incompatibility with the bible.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/holly.htm

As a S. Baptist, I am happy to be a Freemason. Dr. Holly is a zealot that I don't agree with. The official stand of the SBC is not strongly against Fremasonry. Many Baptists are Freemasons, and several of my Masonic brothers are Catholic. Freemasonry is a Fraternity, not a religion.

[roadmaster]

Well I am going to go along with what the Bible says regardless how people feel. I am known to speak my mind and do so.

In James he says states that Christians must not swear by an oath and most if not all secret societies or Fraternity requires members to take an oath.

I don't sway or bend on this, if it be a Church building or whatever I WILL NOT take an oath to secrecy. To each his or her own.

That's about all I have to say about it.

[MMC]

As a S. Baptist, I am happy to be a Freemason. Dr. Holly is a zealot that I don't agree with. The official stand of the SBC is not strongly against Fremasonry. Many Baptists are Freemasons, and several of my Masonic brothers are Catholic. Freemasonry is a Fraternity, not a religion.


http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=I5058531474997482&pid=1.1

Greetings Birddog.....Welcome to the Political Forums of the Rant! :yo2:

[Trinnity]

I probably know some and don't even realize it. I think they're harmless and many probably do a lot for the community.

We had a guy sign up here the other day who is one, if he comes back you guys could ask him about it:

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/3368-Just-dropping-a-lineYeah, Ksig is a nice guy. My grandaddy was a mason.

[birddog]

Well I am going to go along with what the Bible says regardless how people feel. I am known to speak my mind and do so.

In James he says states that Christians must not swear by an oath and most if not all secret societies or Fraternity requires members to take an oath.

I don't sway or bend on this, if it be a Church building or whatever I WILL NOT take an oath to secrecy. To each his or her own.

That's about all I have to say about it.






If you are talking of James 5:12, you are taking it way out of context. Which text are you talking of?

Bu the way, do you believe that a Christian who becomes either a soldier or a politician should not take an oath to defend our constitution?

[KSigMason]

I am known to speak my mind and do so.
I have that issue too and I love speaking my mind.


In James he says states that Christians must not swear by an oath and most if not all secret societies or Fraternity requires members to take an oath.
My oaths are to God and to keep my word, I see nothing wrong with giving my word to God.


I don't sway or bend on this, if it be a Church building or whatever I WILL NOT take an oath to secrecy. To each his or her own.
There is nothing wrong with secrecy. Everyone enjoys some levels of secrecy...or rather privacy.

[birddog]

Again, I would remind everyone that Freemasonry is a Fraternity, not a Religion. It is a fraternity that may use religious terms and beliefs as other fraternities do.

[birddog]

I would have went to a First degree tonight in a town south, but I have a nasty cold. I hope to be much better tomorrow as we have a First at our Lodge, and I will be expected to be in the West.

I'm 65 with a bad heart, and when I get a cold, it knocks me on my gluteus for a couple of days. Oh well, when the going gets tough, the tough gets going!

[KSigMason]

Get well Brother. I just got back from a visit to Royal Arch Chapter in S. Idaho to watch them confer the Most Excellent Master degree. Tomorrow I'm going over to Oregon to visit a Commandery who is being visited by their Grand Commander. Thankfully I don't have to drive.

[Carygrant]

I probably know some and don't even realize it. I think they're harmless and many probably do a lot for the community.

We had a guy sign up here the other day who is one, if he comes back you guys could ask him about it:


As he purports to come from the "City of Trees" . I assume he is from Sacramento .
Here in the UK , you would never admit publicly to being a Mason for I believe doing so is an internally punishable offence .
Both my father and grandfather were freemasons but I turned down the opportunity to become a member for personal reasons .
The vast bulk of UK lodges are essentially decent God fearing local social centres where an enormous number of people are helped -- almost always in secrecy .Of course there is member to member help and assistance . But so what?

[birddog]

Get well Brother. I just got back from a visit to Royal Arch Chapter in S. Idaho to watch them confer the Most Excellent Master degree. Tomorrow I'm going over to Oregon to visit a Commandery who is being visited by their Grand Commander. Thankfully I don't have to drive.

I have my Royal Arch Chapter meeting tomorrow night. It's a small Chapter, but we meet every month, and have a dinner with our ladies 2-3 times a year. We start our new year. After serving as Scribe, I will now serve as King.

I'm feeling better this morning, but not well. Hopefully by this evening, I can participate in our First Degree.

[gamewell45]

I have my Royal Arch Chapter meeting tomorrow night. It's a small Chapter, but we meet every month, and have a dinner with our ladies 2-3 times a year. We start our new year. After serving as Scribe, I will now serve as King.

I'm feeling better this morning, but not well. Hopefully by this evening, I can participate in our First Degree.

I hope your health returns quickly my Brother.

Right now I only have time for Blue Lodge, however upon my impending retirement (3 years) I plan on joining the Commandery, which is something I've contemplated over the past few years. I just stepped down after serving as Master for for past 6 years and will now look forward to sitting on the sidelines as a PM as the younger Brothers move through the chairs.

[birddog]

I hope your health returns quickly my Brother.

Right now I only have time for Blue Lodge, however upon my impending retirement (3 years) I plan on joining the Commandery, which is something I've contemplated over the past few years. I just stepped down after serving as Master for for past 6 years and will now look forward to sitting on the sidelines as a PM as the younger Brothers move through the chairs.

I also concentrate on The Blue Lodge.

I'm an oddball in more ways than one. I did my First Degree in 1976, then I did my Second and Third thirty-three years later. I have been a MM for a bit over three years. I'm now SW, and will be Master in January. Several of us frequently help out with degree work in a 50 mile radius which makes it easier to learn the work plus we get to meet and interact with a greater number of brothers.

[KSigMason]

As he purports to come from the "City of Trees" . I assume he is from Sacramento .
No, I'm from Boise, ID. Boise comes from "les bois" which is French for "the trees".


Here in the UK , you would never admit publicly to being a Mason for I believe doing so is an internally punishable offence .
So the UGLE would expel someone for publicly saying they are a Mason or would the civil authority punish someone? I find that weird as they have a website that lists its Grand Officers...the most prominent is the Duke of Kent.

[Carygrant]

No, I'm from Boise, ID. Boise comes from "les bois" which is French for "the trees".

So the UGLE would expel someone for publicly saying they are a Mason or would the civil authority punish someone? I find that weird as they have a website that lists its Grand Officers...the most prominent is the Duke of Kent.


It is academic , but Les Bois is a small village in one of the Swiss cantons . Or , in French , bois , means wood . I trust that you are not the original ," Wooden Tops "!!
The trees in French is , Les Arbres . And as mentioned , the city of trees is otherwise known to refer to Sacramento .

I confirm that there would be internal punishment in an "ordinary" lodge for breaking an oath . I did not say or hint of expulsion .
Not being an expert or member myself , I cannot sensibly comment on Grand Officer's identities being available .But a distinction between top line information about them and bread and butter members , is not difficult to imagine . And whilst I am sure that the Duke of Kent would confirm his position , I doubt that he would elaborate or volunteer detail information .

[KSigMason]

And as mentioned , the city of trees is otherwise known to refer to Sacramento .
Boise also refers to itself as the City of Trees.


I confirm that there would be internal punishment in an "ordinary" lodge for breaking an oath . I did not say or hint of expulsion .
That is crazy to hear.


Not being an expert or member myself , I cannot sensibly comment on Grand Officer's identities being available .
Who's Who of the UGLE (http://www.ugle.org.uk/about-ugle/whos-who/)

[birddog]

"Ask and thou wilt receive." Perhaps Freemasonry isn't as secretive as some are mistakedly led to believe. Hmmm

It is interesting to see the Royal influence within the Lodge there.

[KSigMason]

"Ask and thou wilt receive." Perhaps Freemasonry isn't as secretive as some are mistakedly led to believe. Hmmm

It is interesting to see the Royal influence within the Lodge there.
I believe the same line is also in charge of the Royal Arch body over there. There is also a Templar body there known as the Great Priory or Grand Priory (I can't remember), but finding any information on them is a pain in the ass.

[gamewell45]

I believe the same line is also in charge of the Royal Arch body over there. There is also a Templar body there known as the Great Priory or Grand Priory (I can't remember), but finding any information on them is a pain in the ass.

One of the many beautiful things about Freemasonry is that there's so much you can learn about our beloved fraternity that's rooted in history.

[roadmaster]

I am not comparing them to the KKK but they too have to take an oath to join and an oath to secrecy. Some call themselves religious groups some don't. They tell me it's all about helping each in the group. Financially, if you need a job and so forth the will be there to help. Brotherhood can mean so many things.

[KSigMason]

If you're not comparing why post it?

[birddog]

If you're not comparing why post it?

It was kinda like a "back-handed compliment" in very poor taste, huh? Oh well, no one is perfect.

[KSigMason]

It was kinda like a "back-handed compliment" in very poor taste, huh? Oh well, no one is perfect.
Yeah, that's what I thinking.

Well, I'm off to my Lodge's summer picnic.

[birddog]

Yeah, that's what I thinking.

Well, I'm off to my Lodge's summer picnic.

Have fun. A friend and I are going to Centralia, Il for a Second Degree early in the morning, one of those rare Sat ones.

[KSigMason]

Have fun. Tomorrow is a YR College meeting so I'm studying up on the lecture.

[gamewell45]

Yeah, that's what I thinking.

Well, I'm off to my Lodge's summer picnic.

Enjoy the picnic and fellowship!

[birddog]

Two of us went to a Second about 50 miles away this morning. They served a good breakfast first. I served as JW, and my friend as CH.

It was a huge lodge. We had not been there before. Diameter was likely over 50 feet, and length was 70 or so.

A good time was had by all, and we have two new Fellowcrafts.

[birddog]

I started a new thread on Masonry on P&CA forum. There are some real idiots there. I specifically asked that it was not to be a masonry-bashing thread. This idiot who gets away with lots of garbage has spent his time in trashing the thread with old Satanic pictures and innuendos about the Pentagon and masonic symbols etc being satanic. Garbage!

Oh well, there are jerks everywhere I guess.

[roadmaster]

If you're not comparing why post it?

Because MMC started this discussion and asked a question "what do you think". Like I said I wasn't cutting you down as people but an oath to secrecy is something I have problems with. Arguing and debating are two different things. If you are going to get offended every time someone doesn't think the way you do then I am not PC and won't give in just because you don't like my opinion.

[gamewell45]

I started a new thread on Masonry on P&CA forum. There are some real idiots there. I specifically asked that it was not to be a masonry-bashing thread. This idiot who gets away with lots of garbage has spent his time in trashing the thread with old Satanic pictures and innuendos about the Pentagon and masonic symbols etc being satanic. Garbage!

Oh well, there are jerks everywhere I guess.

The Profane can in intolerant at times.

[KSigMason]

I started a new thread on Masonry on P&CA forum. There are some real idiots there. I specifically asked that it was not to be a masonry-bashing thread. This idiot who gets away with lots of garbage has spent his time in trashing the thread with old Satanic pictures and innuendos about the Pentagon and masonic symbols etc being satanic. Garbage!

Oh well, there are jerks everywhere I guess.
Haters are going to hate.

[roadmaster]

Haters are going to hate.

Hate lol now, but I actually love a debate. Masonic prayers are not to include the name of Jesus Christ, but they are to refer to the Great Architect of the Universe. As an example, when Scripture is used in rituals the name of Jesus or Christ is omitted lest it offend someone. "Everyone therefore who shall confess Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."(20) This alone should cause some concern to Christians. The Mason is thus faced with the choice of whom he will serve: Jesus, the Savior of his soul, or the tolerant god of Freemasonry who leads him to destruction
Masonry is a search after light. Pike goes on to tell us that the light of Masonry is based on the Kabalah, or Jewish mysticism. For the Christian this is indeed a difficulty, because the Christian cannot accept the occult beliefs of the mystics. The Bible tells us that "truth" or "light" can only be found in God's Word. The Lodge considers the Christian as being profane or unworthy to receive the "Light" of the Craft. The Mason is faced with this dilemma.

The early Masons followed a biblical understanding of salvation and what it meant to be a Christian. However, the pagan writers who rewrote the Masonic rituals omitted the references to biblical salvation and wrote them in a way that would not offend anyone of another religion. It is impossible to bear fruit apart from Jesus. He alone is the one who brings the fruit forth, The greatest problem for the Christian Mason is that by taking the oaths of the Craft, and living his life according to them, he has opened the door to Lucifer to steal his relationship with the living God .The Mason who professes to be a Christian must decide whom he will serve: the God of the Bible or the god of Freemasonry. He cannot serve them both. The Mason must ask himself whether he can, in good faith, remain a part of an organization that devalues the God of Christianity. The Mason may unwittingly be a part of the Lodge thinking that it is an extension of his Christian faith, when in fact it may be a "Trojan horse," allowing another god into his soul.


Don't you just love to debate with a Christian?

[birddog]

What about the Commandery, an arm of the Blue Lodge thru York Rite?

As a Christian, the use of "Deity" or God in Blue Lodge ritual does not offend me or negate my Christianity. After all, we are talking about an inclusive Fraternity here, not a religion. In other words, we include non-Christians as long as they believe in God.

[roadmaster]

What about the Commandery, an arm of the Blue Lodge thru York Rite?

As a Christian, the use of "Deity" or God in Blue Lodge ritual does not offend me or negate my Christianity. After all, we are talking about an inclusive Fraternity here, not a religion. In other words, we include non-Christians as long as they believe in God.

Birddog can a true Christian be a Mason and stand on the early teachings of salivation, yes. I once had a young woman claim she was a Christian Wicca. Christian and the Wicca craft will never go together. Peace be with you my brother and always keep your eyes open and stand on His rock and word. God knows your heart. As a Christian it would be careless of me not to say things to young Christians out there that may be reading this. I hope you understand and in no way am I debating if you are a Christian or not. It is not my purpose to offend you.

[KSigMason]

Masonic prayers are not to include the name of Jesus Christ, but they are to refer to the Great Architect of the Universe.
In the Blue Lodge, yes, but that's because we have men of various faiths so we cannot use one faith or denomination above another. Though GAOTU is generic term for each member to apply in his own way. When I pray, I'm praying to Christ. Plus, in the York Rite we often use the Lord's Prayer and particularly in the Commandery we pray to Christ.

We're not denying Christ, but the Lodge is not Church and it is not the place for conversion or proselytizing.


Masonry is a search after light. Pike goes on to tell us that the light of Masonry is based on the Kabalah, or Jewish mysticism. For the Christian this is indeed a difficulty, because the Christian cannot accept the occult beliefs of the mystics. The Bible tells us that "truth" or "light" can only be found in God's Word. The Lodge considers the Christian as being profane or unworthy to receive the "Light" of the Craft. The Mason is faced with this dilemma.
There's nothing wrong with Kabbalah and in fact there is such thing as Christian Kabbalah or mysticism. Nowhere do we ever say that a Christian is unworthy to receive the Light and knowledge of Freemasonry. Where did you ever get such a foolish notion?


However, the pagan writers who rewrote the Masonic rituals omitted the references to biblical salvation and wrote them in a way that would not offend anyone of another religion.
Preston and Webb were both Christians as they were both in the Templar


The greatest problem for the Christian Mason is that by taking the oaths of the Craft, and living his life according to them, he has opened the door to Lucifer to steal his relationship with the living God.
I haven't had an issue yet. In fact, Freemasonry has only allowed me to strengthen my faith in Christ. Churchgoers on the other hand have done but shoved me away and made me feel like an outcast. Far too many supposed "christians" have forgotten the compassionate lessons and instead have turned into little militants, and in the end do a huge disservice to the name of Christ. Freemasonry has no bone to pick with Christianity. It is Christianity who hates our tolerance and libertarian ways. The only true enemies of Freemasonry are ignorance, tyranny, and fanaticism (none of these are good things).


The Mason who professes to be a Christian must decide whom he will serve: the God of the Bible or the god of Freemasonry.
Well, as there is no god of Freemasonry, I guess I have no need to even make a choice.


He cannot serve them both. The Mason must ask himself whether he can, in good faith, remain a part of an organization that devalues the God of Christianity.
It is not our craft that devalues Christianity, it is quite often my so-called fellow "christian".


Don't you just love to debate with a Christian?
I'm Christian and my fellow "christian" are a pain in the ass, not because they are right, but because they stink of self-righteousness and hubris.

[KSigMason]

Birddog can a true Christian be a Mason and stand on the early teachings of salivation, yes. I once had a young woman claim she was a Christian Wicca.
Except Wicca is a religion and Freemasonry is not, so you can be both a Christian and a Freemason.


God knows your heart.
Yeah, he does, so quit second guessing it because it is not your place.

[roadmaster]

Except Wicca is a religion and Freemasonry is not, so you can be both a Christian and a Freemason.


Yeah, he does, so quit second guessing it because it is not your place.

Ah yes, you are the one that concerns me. Get the point?

[birddog]

Ah yes, you are the one that concerns me. Get the point?

So, what's your point?

By the way, are you of a particular Christian Denomination? If so, what?

I happen to be S. Baptist. Some of my Lodge brothers are Catholic, Methodis, Baptist etc. Some of them likely don't go to church. We really don't get into that much since Freemasonry is not a religion.

I think history and religion has put some black marks on Masonry due to a lack of understanding, word of mouth rumors, falsehoods due to a particular agenda, and poor communication modes.

From what I understand, 150 yrs ago, the various Christian denominations were not very tolerant of each other, and were quick to assume each others were satanic influenced. Due to better communication, there is less of that now. Again, these are religious groups not getting along; however, Masonry is not even a religion.

[roadmaster]

So, what's your point?

By the way, are you of a particular Christian Denomination? If so, what?

I happen to be S. Baptist. Some of my Lodge brothers are Catholic, Methodis, Baptist etc. Some of them likely don't go to church. We really don't get into that much since Freemasonry is not a religion.

I think history and religion has put some black marks on Masonry due to a lack of understanding, word of mouth rumors, falsehoods due to a particular agenda, and poor communication modes.

From what I understand, 150 yrs ago, the various Christian denominations were not very tolerant of each other, and were quick to assume each others were satanic influenced. Due to better communication, there is less of that now. Again, these are religious groups not getting along; however, Masonry is not even a religion.

I say what's on my mind if you like it or not. He puts K in front of his name, that bothers me. King of what? That's like saying atheism is not a religion, they do believe in something. Masonry began with Christian values and some now don't. Freemasonry is a religion and you refuse to see it. If not why put God in it? Why vow to secrecy? Why are only certain people asked to join? Yes, Christian denominations have some different views but we all have something in common our core values. Jesus is King.

See now you are getting me to be rude and I think I shall leave this thread. Have fun.

[KSigMason]

Ah yes, you are the one that concerns me. Get the point?
I concern you? Why?


I say what's on my mind if you like it or not. He puts K in front of his name, that bothers me. King of what?
LOL. WOW!! You make some big assumptions. The "K" in my username doesn't stand for "King". LOL I'll break it down for you: KSig = Kappa Sigma, a Greek college fraternity. Mason = Freemason. These are two fraternal groups that I am a member of. In the Kappa Sigma fraternity I'm the VP (GP) of my Chapter while my Pledge Brother and one of my best friends is the President (GM).


Masonry began with Christian values and some now don't.
American Masonry along with many other international Grand Lodges allow men of many faiths to join. Some allow only Christians to join. The lessons of Freemasonry are compatible with the Christian values. Many Masonic lessons are found within the Bible.


Freemasonry is a religion and you refuse to see it.
Well, here is some facts to point out:


Practice sacerdotal functions - Masonry does NOT!
Teach Theology - Masonry does NOT! -
Ordain Clergy - Masonry does NOT! -
Define sin and salvation - Masonry does NOT! -
Perform sacraments - Masonry does NOT! -
Publish or specify a Holy Book - Masonry does NOT! -
Describe or define the Deity - Masonry does NOT! -

When's the last time you saw Freemasons going door to door asking for conversion.


If not why put God in it?
You'd think that someone who has a low opinion of atheism would not question why we would exclude them from joining.


Why vow to secrecy?
What's wrong with secrecy?


Why are only certain people asked to join?
No one is asked to join. You must join of your own free will, without solicitation.

[birddog]

That's some of the ignorance we have to deal with K, although in my area we don't encounter much. Not that it's highly important, but he didn't answer what denomination. He sounds like a nice guy, but a bit of religious zealot and does not compliment real Christianity.

[MMC]

Well.....what can be said when some of the Founding Fathers of this Nation were FreeMasons.

None can deny our Greatest Hero of them All was a FreeMason. None other than George Washington. Seems he made it work for him in his life. We also know the Templar Knights were Associated with them. Warriors/Monks of the Light.

So in truth we are talking about Learnered Men. Intelligent, and enlightened. Myself, I can only view them as Brothers of the Light. Until they prove otherwise. In the End they will stand on the Path of Righteousness, facing the evil of all those little things that come down. So it is said, and if truly said. Then let it be written and set in stone!

[roadmaster]

but he didn't answer what denomination.

I am a Christ follower and liked and respected the old Masons.

[KSigMason]

So why did you jump to such a strange assumption with my username?

[roadmaster]

So why did you jump to such a strange assumption with my username?

Nah young chap, I knew exactly what it means. I also know you from different boards.:wink:

[KSigMason]

And yet you said this:


I say what's on my mind if you like it or not. He puts K in front of his name, that bothers me. King of what?

[roadmaster]

And yet you said this:

Yes, I watched you on other sites. Believe it or not I use to be a mod and resigned for personal reasons, had nothing to do with the site. I may be wrong but it seems to me your mission is almost like a recruiter.

[KSigMason]

Nope. Just dispelling some misconceptions and lies.

[birddog]

I am a Christ follower and liked and respected the old Masons.

So, you don't belong to a recognized Christian denomination, huh? Thst's fine because it's one church in a sense, but I'm curious.

Also, what are the "old masons" compared to us newer ones? Were they better, if so, why?

[roadmaster]

So, you don't belong to a recognized Christian denomination, huh? Thst's fine because it's one church in a sense, but I'm curious.

Also, what are the "old masons" compared to us newer ones? Were they better, if so, why?

Why do you keep asking questions that you don't want the answers to? Washington was a Mason at first, MMC was correct. He did eventually stop going. If you are a true Christian and believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins then you will notice things. Like I said, keep your eyes open and decide for yourself. Tell you what, next time you have to pray at one of these lodges at the end say in Jesus name we pray. :wink:

[KSigMason]

Washington was a Mason at first, MMC was correct. He did eventually stop going.
So you're saying he stopped? What evidence do you have of this?


If you are a true Christian and believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins then you will notice things.
I have a pretty keen eye and yet, I have found nothing that any rational Christian would find bad.


Tell you what, next time you have to pray at one of these lodges at the end say in Jesus name we pray. :wink:
And what of those who are not Christian?

[roadmaster]

Well I guess you insist on this discussion so I will say it.

Oh yes ksig you don’t know me and your little secrets are not to secret at all to me. It’s ok to talk of many gods such as Zend, Avesta, Osiris, Brahma, these deities and the list goes on. Some of you have a Bible at the altar but it means nothing only to make Christians feel all cozy. How dare any of you to bring up in name of Jesus in a prayer as to not offend someone. Jesus is MY King of Kings and Lord of Lords and I would never tell a young Christian to join this group. People will tell you there are no non-believers and that’s bull.

George Washington yes he did finally leave, some members because of the friendships they have there only go maybe once or twice a year but they know something is wrong, some Christians it take a while. Years can pass up to 15 or more. Washington wrote in 1798 about the Masons and I quote “to correct an error you have run into, of my Presiding over the English lodges in this Country. The fact is, I preside over none, nor have I been in one more than once or twice, within the last thirty years."

Oh yea, you can go ahead and call me a hater now but hopefully I will get to some young Christians and get them to think. :smiley:

[gamewell45]

Yes, I watched you on other sites. Believe it or not I use to be a mod and resigned for personal reasons, had nothing to do with the site. I may be wrong but it seems to me your mission is almost like a recruiter.

In most, if not all jurisdictions, Freemasons are forbidden to "recruit" potential candidates. 2b1ask1

[birddog]

Why do you keep asking questions that you don't want the answers to? Washington was a Mason at first, MMC was correct. He did eventually stop going. If you are a true Christian and believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins then you will notice things. Like I said, keep your eyes open and decide for yourself. Tell you what, next time you have to pray at one of these lodges at the end say in Jesus name we pray. :wink:

When we pray at a meal before the Lodge meeting, we always say in Jesus name. The York Rite Commandery I'm in which professing Christianity is a requirement to join, uses in Jesus name.

It seems you are a slow learner in understanding that freemasonry is a Fraternity, not a religion. You sound very judgemental and hypocritical to me.

[KSigMason]

How dare any of you to bring up in name of Jesus in a prayer as to not offend someone. Jesus is MY King of Kings and Lord of Lords and I would never tell a young Christian to join this group. People will tell you there are no non-believers and that’s bull.
Well, in a multi-faith group that preaches tolerance, it would seem contradictory to hold one faith above another.

I mean, what if a Muslim prayed to Allah? Should I not stand up and mention that not all are Muslim?


George Washington yes he did finally leave, some members because of the friendships they have there only go maybe once or twice a year but they know something is wrong, some Christians it take a while. Years can pass up to 15 or more. Washington wrote in 1798 about the Masons and I quote “to correct an error you have run into, of my Presiding over the English lodges in this Country. The fact is, I preside over none, nor have I been in one more than once or twice, within the last thirty years."

Oh yea, you can go ahead and call me a hater now but hopefully I will get to some young Christians and get them to think. :smiley:
I was wondering if you were going to actually quote it. YEAH!

This hoax got its start in 1837 with the publication of a tract by Joseph Ritner, Governor of Pennsylvania. Although easily debunked, it was reprinted in 1877. Shortly after Prof. Charles Albert Blanchard (1848-1925), a founder and first lecturer of the National Christian Association published a rewriting of the same story entitled "Was Washington a Freemason?"

[roadmaster]

When we pray at a meal before the Lodge meeting, we always say in Jesus name. The York Rite Commandery I'm in which professing Christianity is a requirement to join, uses in Jesus name.

It seems you are a slow learner in understanding that freemasonry is a Fraternity, not a religion. You sound very judgemental and hypocritical to me.

But it's ok to speak of others in the lodge meetings as I pointed out.

[birddog]

But it's ok to speak of others in the lodge meetings as I pointed out.

I don't know that "others" are a factor. If any are mentioned in ritual, it would only be in a historical connotation.

I appreciate your zeal about Christianity, and it being Christ centered, but you also have to consider that some of what you have read of Masonry may be "false teaching."

[roadmaster]

I don't know that "others" are a factor. If any are mentioned in ritual, it would only be in a historical connotation.

I appreciate your zeal about Christianity, and it being Christ centered, but you also have to consider that some of what you have read of Masonry may be "false teaching."

Considering I did have some kin that were and left, don't need to read on it. There comes a time when some realize that bringing up old deities and accepting them as a part of speech in the lodge meetings are ok but not the name of Jesus. Should not all members be respected?

[birddog]

Considering I did have some kin that were and left, don't need to read on it. There comes a time when some realize that bringing up old deities and accepting them as a part of speech in the lodge meetings are ok but not the name of Jesus. Should not all members be respected?

All members are respected. There may have been some who were not astute enough to realize that they were in a fraternity, not a rigid church denomination, but so be it.

Christianity is not a requirement for membership in the Blue Lodge, nor is anything anti-Christian at least not on purpose.

[roadmaster]

All members are respected. There may have been some who were not astute enough to realize that they were in a fraternity, not a rigid church denomination, but so be it.

Christianity is not a requirement for membership in the Blue Lodge, nor is anything anti-Christian at least not on purpose.

How when you can bring up any deity except Jesus in a lodge meeting or the craft? I am not saying one should be able to preach but Jesus should never be forbidden in any organization. Why is He the only one?

[KSigMason]

But it's ok to speak of others in the lodge meetings as I pointed out.
I have never heard of that happening. Where do you presume that Christianity is banished, but others are elevated?


Considering I did have some kin that were and left, don't need to read on it. There comes a time when some realize that bringing up old deities and accepting them as a part of speech in the lodge meetings are ok but not the name of Jesus. Should not all members be respected?
There has never been any part in any of the degrees of the Blue Lodge that elevate any one religious ideology above another. Maybe you're kin could furnish us with some proof?


How when you can bring up any deity except Jesus in a lodge meeting or the craft? I am not saying one should be able to preach but Jesus should never be forbidden in any organization. Why is He the only one?
This is simply not true. No religion's deity is brought up in Lodge. Nor is Christianity singled out.

[Captain Obvious]

We have a freemasons... building, castle, not sure what to call it in my tiny little town.

My kid asks me what that is (the "consistory" it's called), I tell him that's where they hold human sacrifices when little boys don't do their homework.

It's basically an old mans club and I wonder if some of this is going on in the basement:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ

[roadmaster]

I say let the Masons explain Hiram Abiff. His name is used in rituals.

[roadmaster]

We have a freemasons... building, castle, not sure what to call it in my tiny little town.

My kid asks me what that is (the "consistory" it's called), I tell him that's where they hold human sacrifices when little boys don't do their homework.

It's basically an old mans club and I wonder if some of this is going on in the basement:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ

Alright, I am trying to be serious. :grin:

[KSigMason]

We have a freemasons... building, castle, not sure what to call it in my tiny little town.

My kid asks me what that is (the "consistory" it's called), I tell him that's where they hold human sacrifices when little boys don't do their homework.
A consistory is a Scottish Rite body.


I say let the Masons explain Hiram Abiff. His name is used in rituals.
The Hiramic legend is one about integrity.

[roadmaster]

The Hiramic legend is one about integrity.

Integrity you say? Deny it all you want but in secret you reenact the death, burial and resurrection of Hiram Abiff.

As a Christian this would conflict with my beliefs. I say take my life but you will never get my sole because it belongs to Jesus. Not take my life but you will never get my secrets.

Anyway, I am not going to explain other things that happen because I am not a Mason and they vow not to let out these secrets and as a Christian I would rather not offend you. It would be rude to keep saying things that I know.
To be honest we should just drop this conversation.

[KSigMason]

Integrity you say? Deny it all you want but in secret you reenact the death, burial and resurrection of Hiram Abiff.
There is actually no resurrection in the Hiramic legend.


Anyway, I am not going to explain other things that happen because I am not a Mason and they vow not to let out these secrets and as a Christian I would rather not offend you. It would be rude to keep saying things that I know.
Well, you have yet to reveal anything secret so.

[birddog]

Poor roadmaster. He's a good guy, but he's probably one of those religious fanatics that believes his denomination or those who agree exactly with him will be the only ones attaining eternal life.

In the meantime, the fraternal work continues. I have two nights of degree work, and one night of training scheduled this week.

[roadmaster]

Poor roadmaster. He's a good guy, but he's probably one of those religious fanatics that believes his denomination or those who agree exactly with him will be the only ones attaining eternal life.

In the meantime, the fraternal work continues. I have two nights of degree work, and one night of training scheduled this week.

That you are correct. I am a religious fanatic. I do believe Jesus is the King. Denomination? Don't know why you seem to be hung up on that. I like most to teach the Word of God.

[birddog]

That you are correct. I am a religious fanatic. I do believe Jesus is the King. Denomination? Don't know why you seem to be hung up on that. I like most to teach the Word of God.

I also believe Jesus is King. I'm a S. Baptist. Do you want to criticize that also?

[roadmaster]

I also believe Jesus is King. I'm a S. Baptist. Do you want to criticize that also?

Just because I currently attend a Baptist church or building doesn't mean I don't respect the Methodist, Pentecostal, and so on that teach the Word. I am not here to promote any denomination. It doesn't matter which building as long as you have given you soul to Jesus. But you can sit in any building and not be saved.

[birddog]

Just because I currently attend a Baptist church or building doesn't mean I don't respect the Methodist, Pentecostal, and so on that teach the Word. I am not here to promote any denomination. It doesn't matter which building as long as you have given you soul to Jesus. But you can sit in any building and not be saved.

I totally agree. There are some who think their denomination is the only correct one. There is only one true church. I suppose if we didn't have some diversity, we would be like a bunch of robots, and God didn't intend that. That's partly why he gave us "free will."

[MMC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfwHg-90We0&feature=related

For our Mason bruthas.....:wink:

[Captain America]

Ever talk to any Freemason?

You're talking to one now.

Captain America, MM

F&AM #149 Grand Lodge of Wisconsin

[Captain America]

What do you know about them RM? Or why would you consider them secret, nowadays? I mean I think they were in their beginnings.

I wouldn't think that any "secret" organization would be listed in the phone book or have big signs on the front of their building. The only thing "secret" are our modes of recognition but any enquiring mind can google that and figure it out.

2b1ask1

[Captain America]

Highly unlikely unless your were asked to join a clandestine group. In mainstream Freemasonry, women cannot be members; it is only open to men. And if as you maintain, they dont want you to ask questions, then they must have been a clandestine group. There are a couple of hundred groups claiming to be Freemasons, but are fakes.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/member.htm


A mason will not ask you to join. You have to ask them.

Masonry is a fraternity. Eastern Star is the affailaited soriority for the women.

[MMC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc6yOaHUV8Q

I can't seem to find Part 2 or more of it. :smiley:

[Captain America]

Nope. I see people with lodge bumper stickers and they donate around here quite a bit from what I understand. I don't personally know any Masons though

Mason are like the "quite" company. They give around 3 million a day to charities. They just don't plaster it up on billboards seeking praise for it. You ever heard of Shriner Hospitals? Burn centers? You gotta be a master mason before you can be a Shriner.

'Nuff said.

[Captain America]

So what do you know about them? I am sure that guy can join and let us know some things. But I doubt he can tell me what you know. :evil:

Just what do you WANT to know about masonry? If you are that curious, PM me.

[MMC]

Just what do you WANT to know about masonry? If you are that curious, PM me.

I was just getting a Convo going in the history Room as we saw we has a member with KSig. We pretty much let you guys tell us. I figured I throw up some stuff that people hear about them. Let you guys take it from there. :wink:

[Captain America]

Ok I will try to explain. Paganistic religion has been a large contributor to masonic ritual. but so has what you would call maybe religious undertones. Religious undertones doesn't always mean Christ. I am not saying that a Christian cannot be a member if you have a friend that is. Ask them questions first because I am leery of having to swear an oath of silence to any place. Ask them their views on the scripture. As them if they follow Jesus.

Yes, my husband I were asked to join around around 20 years ago and yes I know some. Asking questions helps one determine if you want to join or not. We chose not to but at first it sounded good. Most of the time they don't want you to ask too many questions.

But I repeat I am not saying a friend of your ect is bad if they are a member just saying ask questions. :smiley:

If you and your wife were asked to join, it was a "clandestine" lodge and not an official lodge of Free and Accepted Masons.

Free Masonry is not a religion. We leave that up to churches. In lodge, the guy to your left might be Catholic and the guy to your right might be Baptist and the guy sitting behind you might be a Buddist or whatever.

The reason religion and politics are not discussed in lodge is because the topics tend to create discord. "harmony and strength are the support of all institutions. More especially of ours."

That being said, one cannot profess to be an "atheist" and be allowed to join. If you profess that you know that there is no God, Creator, Great Architect of the Universe, or whatever, then you must think that you already know it all. There is nothing we can teach you. You will never be asked what religion you follow. Doesn't matter.

[MMC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjKPu7iKK6M

Decoded by Tony Robinson. Part 1. :smiley:

[MMC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuc1VFeI0hY

Part 2. By Robinson :wink:

[Captain America]

I was just getting a Convo going in the history Room as we saw we has a member with KSig. We pretty much let you guys tell us. I figured I throw up some stuff that people hear about them. Let you guys take it from there. :wink:

I've heard it all. Most people who claim they "know all about" Freemasonry have never stepped foot in the lodge. Actually, we sorta get a kick out of some of the "things" we have heard about us. It can be quite humorous.

Put simply, only a mason knows what we are, or are not. Anyone else is just blowing smoke. And we just let 'em.

[MMC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxKl8iJj-CE

Part 3.....by Robinson. :cool2:

[MMC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHjgQy97x8Q

Part 4.....by Robinson. :wink:

[MMC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8xcKkcACQw

Part 5 and the last Part. By Robinson. :grin:

[MMC]

Tony Robonsons sets out to discover the truth behind the claims in the Dan Brown's latest bestselling book, The Lost Symbol of Freemasonry, in which his old new hero, Robert Langdon, embarks on a quest to solve impossible riddles after mysterious kidnaping of Scottish Rite of Freemasonry Grand Master, while Langdon is being pursued by the CIA and all-knowing Freemasons all over Washington.....snip~

From the Video's.....I will see if I can surprise you on what I find with what some might have to say. :evil:

[MMC]

So who killed Capt Morgan? :f_whistle: :evil20: :evil5:

[KSigMason]

For our Mason bruthas.....:wink:
I haven't seen this episode of Decoded, but the ones I have seen I wasn't too impressed with Brad and his team. I have read some of his books so when I heard he was coming out with a show I was hopeful, but kind of disappointed when I did watch it.


You're talking to one now.

Captain America, MM

F&AM #149 Grand Lodge of Wisconsin
Welcome aboard Brother.


A mason will not ask you to join. You have to ask them.
That is what gamewall was aiming at. He is a Brother as well.


I can't seem to find Part 2 or more of it. :smiley:
Chris Pintos (sp?) is so full of crap. The whole inner circle and outer circle thing is completely illogical if you knew how Freemasonry operated and was structured.

William Morgan was a self proclaimed Captain. He was also a drunk and no one could ever prove he went through the first three degrees (shotty records or did he falsify his membership?), but somewhere I've heard he went through the Royal Arch degree. Plus, he only disappeared and it was later said someone confessed, but that no evidence ever was found of it. Regardless, public opinion nearly destroyed Freemasonry, guilty or not, we were all painted. There are also inconsistencies about his disappearance and also look at it, there was no precedence to stopping him from writing his book as there already existed many books on the rituals of Freemasonry by that time.

As for the "bring out the top Masons". I did laugh at that as you can call and make an appointment anytime to get a tour and ask questions. It's not like Brad had to make some huge deal. Also note that the House of the Temple is the HQ for Scottish Rite Freemasonry, it is not the authority over all Freemasonry.

I had a chance to be in DC, but the House of the Temple was closed. I did get a chance to go to Alexandria and see the George Washington Masonic Memorial.


Decoded by Tony Robinson. Part 1. :smiley:
The opening with the light bulb did make me laugh. I had never watched this series, but now I will have to look more at it.

Dan Brown was actually invited to the Supreme Council meeting after he wrote this, but he couldn't attend as he was on a tour. I was expecting us to be demonized, but Brown surprised me and painted us in a fairly good light. I enjoyed his piece of fiction.


Part 2. By Robinson :wink:
Akram Elias is an interesting Brother. He's not only a 33rd, but a Past Grand Master.


Part 3.....by Robinson. :cool2:
I would love to have Jefferson counted among us, but there exists no records of him ever being a Mason. He knew plenty of them.

L'Enfant I've heard was actually anti-Mason, particularly after he fled to Europe after being fired by Washington. George Washington was the only Mason involved with the city, but he only hired them men who would design everything.

I do laugh at the street design theories as you can draw out a great deal of symbols and images. Hell, you can spell out "JESUS" if you wanted. The pentagram actually doesn't exist in the street plans as there is not streets where the lower left star point would be.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l70/IDARNG_Loki/Pentagram_Overlay.gif

The one dollar bill is not really that Masonic. It wasn't a Mason who designed it. It was a Latin teacher who worked for Congress, Charles Thomson. If it had been designed by a Mason it would looked a lot different.


Part 4.....by Robinson. :wink:
I heartely disagree that 13 is a power number in Masonry. Now why would the 13 colonies use so much 13 iconography in their Great Seal? Hmmmmm....doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Far too often people over analyze things.

Apotheosis is an interesting theory as well as the prospect of noetics.


Part 5 and the last Part. By Robinson. :grin:
Tony is quite entertaining in the Support Center.

I have met Brent Morris once at a lecture he gave in Pennsylvania. Interesting guy.

[MMC]

Hope ya enjoyed some of it KSM. :smiley:

[MMC]

Hmmmmm KSM.....I :dontknow: I throw up some videos about you guys and all ya bruthas suddenly singing that Song of Silence. :f_whistle: Then in the one video we have this guy saying he can validate some of this NWO Agenda and ruling the World. :glasses12: Kinda gets one to :thinking: then with the rumors of the Illmanati having ties with Masons. :tearyeyed: and those Templar Knights. :fighting0074: sure does like lead into those Conspiracy Theories.....huh? Makes me think I might want to snoop around and find some more things to put in here. Don't worry I will get them to sign the papers uhm.....uh erm I mean to talk. :detective: :evil6:

[KSigMason]

Not everyone has that much time to watch all of those videos, and it is summer time so many are out and about. I don't know about the new guy on this forum as I just saw his posts yesterday when I replied to your videos.

The word Illuminati has become taboo and its used as some kind of boogeyman when in fact it was a group that died out centuries ago. Jim Marrs, David Icke, Chris Pintos, Alex Jones, and that guy that runs FreemasonryWatch (Aaron Klein I think) are basically douche bags perpetuating lies and myths for a few $$.

As for the Knights Templar, there exists no records that ties the two of us together. There is a group within the York Rite that uses the name "Knights Templar" of which I am a member, but we take the name in commemoration only; we claim no lineage. Personally I'd love to find that connection, but alas it is mostly a romanticized idea, sometimes perpetuated by Masons themselves to give greater pedigree to a system or body they are trying to draw support for. Stephen Dafoe wrote a great book on the various perpetuation myths of Templary and its ties to Masonry. Fun fact, it wasn't until Ramsay's Oration in 1737 that there ever the mention that Freemasonry stemmed from chivalric orders, but it wasn't the Templars he tied the Masons to, it was the Knights of St. John. After that all sorts of Orders sprouted up with their own theories, often easily debunked with historical fact.

If you'd like to talk about conspiracy theories, post them. I do love to talk about them.

[MMC]

Thanks KSM.....no really. You guys have done a great job with this thread. I was just :stirthepot: and trying to get some activity going on the board. Naturally I don't expect any to watch all those videos at one time. We have the same deal up with Ancient Aliens, UFO Hunters, and Decoded with the videos. I usually get the ones that comes in parts so people can look at them with their own leisure and time. Which then they can bring up anything they want to talk about as they have the Video with the part they are discussing.

Course we do have some up with Military Sightings with the UFO Ancient Aliens, Specifics with Bentwaters and Edwards. Getting Vets and others to check them out too. Those are in the Science Room.

I luv history so I do like seeing a few threads running in this room. :greatjob:

[Captain America]

So who killed Capt Morgan? :f_whistle: :evil20: :evil5:


I believe that was me. But I got another bottle in the cabinet.

[MMC]

I believe that was me. But I got another bottle in the cabinet.

http://www.scenicreflections.com/files/Captain_Morgan_Caitlyn_Wallpaper_JxHy.jpg

Well truthfully I am not really Concerned about Capt Morgan.....But whatever ya do. Don't you Kill the First Mate. :laugh:

[Captain America]

Arrrghhh Matey! I agree!

[birddog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc6yOaHUV8Q

I can't seem to find Part 2 or more of it. :smiley:

I couldn't watch all of it. Too silly, and I'm not interested in helping sell books. Also, what if George Washington used some of the symbols of Masonry in DC? So what?

[MMC]

I couldn't watch all of it. Too silly, and I'm not interested in helping sell books. Also, what if George Washington used some of the symbols of Masonry in DC? So what?

Hmmmm.....then how do you know what others are saying about the Freemasons or Masons then.....huh? :poke: :flames:

Myself I am a Kempo-man. In our school of discipline we found it quite interesting as to what others had to say about one of us or the discipline. Whether it was true or false. :fighting0074:

Course I didnt put it up to mock you guys or anything. As stated I thought you guys were doing a great job with the thread. So i figured I throw some things in here and let you guys go to Town on them so to speak. Kinda like ya brutha KSM did. But there's no hurry to any of the videos. Just some talking points people can use to get a conversation going. :icon_study:

Getting new members we may have more questions and or conspiracy theories. :wink: Not to mention I likes to liven it up a bit for you guys. :evil5: :yo2:

[birddog]

Hmmmm.....then how do you know what others are saying about the Freemasons or Masons then.....huh? :poke: :flames:

Myself I am a Kempo-man. In our school of discipline we found it quite interesting as to what others had to say about one of us or the discipline. Whether it was true or false. :fighting0074:

Course I didnt put it up to mock you guys or anything. As stated I thought you guys were doing a great job with the thread. So i figured I throw some things in here and let you guys go to Town on them so to speak. Kinda like ya brutha KSM did. But there's no hurry to any of the videos. Just some talking points people can use to get a conversation going. :icon_study:

Getting new members we may have more questions and or conspiracy theories. :wink: Not to mention I likes to liven it up a bit for you guys. :evil5: :yo2:

I have read plenty of stuff on the internet plus have seen PBS stuff years ago. Some good, some not so good. I go by my own experiences of being a Mason.

[KSigMason]

I just read some interesting things from Fama Fraternitatis and Confessio Fraternitatis (two Rosicrucian documents), and found some interesting connections with the 1st Degree Lecture. I'm writing an article about it and I hope to get it out here in the next few weeks.

I can't wait for August to end. I should hear some big news by the end of it!

[MMC]

I just read some interesting things from Fama Fraternitatis and Confessio Fraternitatis (two Rosicrucian documents), and found some interesting connections with the 1st Degree Lecture. I'm writing an article about it and I hope to get it out here in the next few weeks.

I can't wait for August to end. I should hear some big news by the end of it!


Bon Dio KS :yo2: Will be looking forward to checking it out. Haven't really been looking to throw anything else up recently. Was waiting to see if any others checked out the vidoes or were going to discuss some topic about them. :smiley:

[birddog]

I've been busy a few days ago with degree work mon and tues.. I'm in Indy now for a Nat'l American Legion training for membership. There's about 360 of us from all over the country. Just got back from their big post, where we had fried chicken etc.

We have degree work at our Lodge next tues night. Always something going on. I am looking forward to what KSig is putting out also.

[KSigMason]

Here's a little bump. Last weekend I had a Jobie Installation, Eastern Star picnic, and a 3rd degree ceremony. This weekend is Red Cross of Constantine and then Monday after I'm done with school I am heading to S Idaho to confer the Royal and Select Master (Cryptic degrees). Still waiting to put out the big news, but I may hear this weekend!

[KSigMason]

Well some news, I just finished my first Jobie meeting as Associate Bethel Guardian. For those who don't know, the Job's Daughters organization is the young women's organization under the Masonic umbrella. My job is the 2nd in command of the group (as high as I can go as a male) and assist the Guardian in all her duties. My main job is to check on the Masonic affiliation of the girls who petition to join.

[KSigMason]

Well tonight was a big meeting. The propositions of changing our dues and getting ready for Fall events were all completed, but these weren't surprising. At this meeting we had the Right Eminent Grand Commander of Idaho visiting us and he gave me two big surprises. First, I was awarded the Order of the White Star, which is the highest meritorious service medal in Idaho Templary. Second, he announced the creation of a new Instruction and Education Committee and he appointed me as the my Commandery's Education Officer.

[birddog]

Congratulations! You are a credit to our Fraternity. We less accomplished Brothers will just keep muddling on. lol

[KSigMason]

Congratulations! You are a credit to our Fraternity. We less accomplished Brothers will just keep muddling on. lol
Thank you! It caught me by surprise.

[KSigMason]

Yesterday the Boise York Rite bodies hosted the first day of the biannual 2-Day York Rite Festival. We conferred the Capitular and Cryptic degrees. It was a long day, but well worth it. In a few weeks we'll hold the 2nd day and confer the Chivalric Orders.

I'm excited as I help out in all three Orders, but particularly I'm going to confer the Order of the Temple for the first time.

[gamewell45]

Well tonight was a big meeting. The propositions of changing our dues and getting ready for Fall events were all completed, but these weren't surprising. At this meeting we had the Right Eminent Grand Commander of Idaho visiting us and he gave me two big surprises. First, I was awarded the Order of the White Star, which is the highest meritorious service medal in Idaho Templary. Second, he announced the creation of a new Instruction and Education Committee and he appointed me as the my Commandery's Education Officer.

Congratulations my Brother. That's quite an honor. When the day comes and I get to retire and have more time, its my intention to join the Commandary; as for now I only have time for Blue Lodge which believe it or not keeps me busy. Again Contrats.

[KSigMason]

Well, one of the big surprises I talked about back in August came through today. My friend Paul gave me the official word that I have been invited into the Knight Masons (http://www.travelingtemplar.com/2012/03/green-degrees-of-freemasonry.html), an invitational body within the American York Rite system.

[KSigMason]

Well, tonight I was elected as Eminent Commander for my Commandery. Next month I will be installed on the 20th...the day before the prophesied Mayan apocalypse.