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dattaswami
05-30-2012, 08:59 PM
GOD GIVES NO IMPORTANCE FOR PERSONAL AFFAIR
Human Being Gives Top Priority for Personal Affair
O Learned and Devoted Servants of God,
Human Being Encourages Love of others to it

Pravrutti is the balance of the society by maintaining justice in the context of worldly bonds. Nivrutti is exceptional record break by sacrificing the worldly bonds for the sake of love to God. God never aims at Nivrutti since it is somebody loving Him personally. Nivrutti deals with a single individual called as God. Pravrutti is the subject dealing with all the living beings in the society to maintain the balance of the world. God never aims at Nivrutti because it is the case of an individual and more over that individual is Himself. Generally, a human being encourages other human beings to love it and also rewards such personal love. The reason is that every human being is blind and selfish. The ego in the human beings is also the basis for this. God is quite different from the human beings in not being blind and selfish. He never encourages nor rewards the love to Him. He discourages such love by creating hurdles and by speaking negatively. To sacrifice the worldly bonds for the sake of such divine love itself is impossible. It becomes doubly impossible since God discourages such love. The heaven is only for doing good deeds to help the society and not for the devotion to God. But, the Divine personality of God is far higher than the worldly bonds. Hence, the love to society is rewarded by the sanction of temporary visits to heaven. If one succeeds in Nivrutti, the fruit is unimaginable and permanent. The human soul that succeeds in Nivrutti either becomes God or becomes the master of God. In the first option, God enters such liberated soul and this results in the human incarnation. Such human being is identified with God. Sometimes, such human being remains as the devotee of God and God becomes its servant. Hence, Nivrutti and its unimaginable fruit (Nivruttistu mahaphalaa…) exist but the point is that Nivrutti is always discouraged by God since it is His personal affair.


The human being always gives top most priority to the personal affair. But, God does not give any importance to the personal affair. This differentiates the human being from God. He always gives importance to Pravrutti, which is impersonal and is related to the balance of the society by protecting the justice.

God also encourages Nivrutti, but, the aim here is impersonal. Such encouragement of Nivrutti is only for the sake of Pravrutti. When you love the Divine personality of God, it influences your mind to practice justice. The reason is that the personality of God always shows the support to justice. When you love such personality, your mind is naturally affected by the qualities of such Divine personality. These qualities are always in the support of protection of justice and destruction of injustice. In this way, the Nivrutti is encouraged by God, but, the ultimate aim is Pravrutti only. Such encouragement should not be misunderstood as the encouragement of human beings, which are blind and selfish.

The punishment for the sin is for the reformation of the soul. When there is a change in the soul, the punishment is reduced as we see in the reduction of the period of life imprisonment. The judge gave the life imprisonment as the punishment. But, the jailer recommends the reduction of punishment due to the observed reformation of the soul. In this case, the jailer is contradicting the judgment. But, in the case of God, this contradiction is not seen. When the soul is reformed, certainly the punishment given by the deity of justice is reduced by God. But, unlike the case of jailer and judge, here, the deity of justice is not contradicted by God. The reason is that the punishment is reduced but God undergoes the remaining part of the punishment for the sake of His reformed devotee. By this, the judgment of the deity of justice is maintained and at the same time, the punishment is reduced in the case of reformed devotee. Here, God is the jailer and the deity of justice is the judge. But, here, the jailer (God) undergoes the rest of the imprisonment!
The reduction of imprisonment is not given to every prisoner. Only the reformed prisoner gets such benefit. Similarly, the punishments of all the devotees are not taken over by God. Only deserving devotees, who are reformed by the partial punishment itself, are given such chance as in the case of Kuchela. The undeserving devotees like Ravana do not get such benefit. Therefore, devotion to God will not affect the punishments of your sins. Only the transformation of your mental setup, which is a proof for the reformation of soul, can cancel your punishments.

In the case of non-devotees, the punishment is completed since the period of the punishment is already planned correctly. It means that the period of punishment is precisely decided according to the possibility of reformation. In the case of a devotee, this period is reduced since the future behavior of the devotee is guaranteed by God. It is just like the bail given to a victim on personal assurance. God never fails in such personal assurance because He is omniscient. The person giving bail pays the huge amount from his pocket and is undergoing the partial punishment. Similarly, God undergoes the partial punishment giving assurance for a specific devotee.

MMC
05-30-2012, 09:44 PM
Welcome back D-Swami.....I won't have time to get into this tonight but I will Check it out and get back with you tomorrow. :wink:

dattaswami
05-31-2012, 05:05 AM
Welcome back D-Swami.....I won't have time to get into this tonight but I will Check it out and get back with you tomorrow. :wink:
ok, thanks

MMC
05-31-2012, 07:10 AM
Good Day D-Swami.....although I believe it is night time over where you are. Hope All is Well for you!

Do you think that Righteousness should replace the Word Justice? What is justice.....define justice. Yet how can man define what has no definition?

Law of Mksha.....life is only Spirit, and being Spirit it has nothing; it has only intelligence with the peculiar ability to percieve, penetrate,survive,have causation, specialization,creativenes, beauty, love and ethics.

Law of Spirit- Spirit in ITSELF, is the principle of increase; future conditions grow out of present conditions; there is always something moreto come, another experience to experience.

Law of Spirtual Growth- Truth has to be continually rediscovered, to be reformed and transformed; the same truth has to be experienced in ever new forms.

What you speak of Pravrutti and Nivrutti.....such is the Law of Grace. To be in Accord with the ways of the SUGMAD for making each a Divine Channel, through working in the area of Non-attachment mainly througth the discipline of the Emotions.

dattaswami
05-31-2012, 08:41 PM
Do you think that Righteousness should replace the Word Justice? What is justice.....define justice. Yet how can man define what has no definition?
.
Justice is the divine system created by God, to maintain thebalance of the society so that the spiritual aspirants can do their effortswith peace. The justice is related to your colleague soul. The essence ofDharma is not to hurt anyone in anyway because the law and order is in thehands of God. Atleast you should not harm any devotee. But punishing thestudents for their welfare is exempted because the welfare of the student isthe main aim.

You may hurt your colleague souls in several ways. All theseways are injustice and immorality. For example by corruption you are hurtingyour colleague souls. Atleast you are not exempting the poor and devotedpeople. If you do corruption in the case of unjust rich people, you shouldspend it for divine purpose. If you spend it for yourself or for your family,all of you will be completely destroyed.

dattaswami
05-31-2012, 08:42 PM
What you speak of Pravrutti and Nivrutti.....such is the Law of Grace. .


The divine knowledge consists of two parts

1) If you are in Pravrutti (path of justice) only, you can attain your self by the self-realization. In this you will be fixed in the self and get detached from the both subtle and gross bodies. By this all the bonds related to gross body and related to feelings (Subtle body) are cut off and you will attain the eternal peace. All your worries, anxiety, tensions, misery, mental pain, dissatisfaction, confusion etc., will disappear forever. You will live with perfect peace through out your life. Peace is your property, which is the characteristic of your soul. You have to think that you are the pure awareness, which is stand still (called as Atman or soul). When you are attached to the gross body or subtle body (Mind), you have lost the peace. If you are attached to the casual body (soul), you have gained your lost peace.

2) In Nivrutti (path of liberation) you attain the Lord who has come in the human form for your sake to give the bliss. Bliss is only the characteristic of Lord as said in Veda (Anando Brahma……). Veda also says that the Lord alone can give bliss to the soul (Eshahyeva Anandayati……). Bliss is not characteristic of the soul. Your property is only the golden chain and not the diamond necklace. You should not think that peace is bliss. By your effort you can attain only peace but not the bliss. You can get the bliss only by nearing yourself to Sadguru who is the human incarnation. You can get the cool breeze when you are near the sea on the shore. If you are in the house, you have avoided the hot sun. By attaining the soul you have come to zero from minus, but that is not plus. Zero is within yourself and bliss is from external agency. When you have attained what you have, it is avoiding loss, which can give only peace but not the bliss. Thus, the divine knowledge of Sadguru gives you atleast peace, which is the earth, if not the bliss, which is the sky. He will give you the knowledge of Atman to give peace. This is essential requirement for anyone in this world. A few blessed people can also get the bliss if they realise that the Sadguru is the Lord Himself. Therefore, you must utilise the full freedom given to you in this human birth and you must destroy all your sins permanently through Nivrutti only. You should be very active to use this unlimited freedom within the limited span of lifetime. When you leave this gross body and go to upper worlds you have no freedom at all and those upper worlds hence are called as "Bhoga Loka" which mean that they are the worlds in which the results are to be enjoyed without any freedom. This earth is called as "Karma Loka" which means the world in which you are given full freedom to do anything. You are given the opportunity to receive the divine knowledge here and if you practice it by determination, your entire fate is changed here and there also.

The sages did long penance and sat in the process of self-realization for several ages. They obtained peace of the self but not bliss of the Brahman. Then they realized and approached Lord Krishna as Gopikas for the bliss, which they got in Brindavanam in the vicinity of the Lord (Sayujyam). You can smile or laugh with bliss only by attaining the Lord in human form. You can get atleast a shadow of the bliss by remembering the Lord. But without any external agency you cannot get happiness or bliss. If you are peaceful and silent, no body will ask you the reason but if you are laughing and dancing in bliss stating that there is no external reason for it, it is unnatural and people will admit you in the mental hospital.

MMC
05-31-2012, 09:17 PM
Justice is the divine system created by God, to maintain thebalance of the society so that the spiritual aspirants can do their effortswith peace. The justice is related to your colleague soul. The essence ofDharma is not to hurt anyone in anyway because the law and order is in thehands of God. Atleast you should not harm any devotee. But punishing thestudents for their welfare is exempted because the welfare of the student isthe main aim.

You may hurt your colleague souls in several ways. All theseways are injustice and immorality. For example by corruption you are hurtingyour colleague souls. Atleast you are not exempting the poor and devotedpeople. If you do corruption in the case of unjust rich people, you shouldspend it for divine purpose. If you spend it for yourself or for your family,all of you will be completely destroyed.


D-Swami.....Dharma is the law of life, Correct? Dharma is also the Righteousness of Life. Doing What is right. Such is the Code of Conduct that sustains the Right ethics in life.

Is there the Injustice within Righteousness? The Danda is the path of Righteousness. It is not Dharma Megha which is Samandhi an absorption of the mind into Contemplation and complete detachment/Vairag.

Dharmakaya.....recognition of the illusion. Viewing from that above the 5th plane or that from within Soul.

MMC
06-01-2012, 05:05 PM
Heya Eninn.....care to take a gander?

dattaswami
06-02-2012, 03:19 AM
D-Swami.....Dharma is the law of life, Correct? Dharma is also the Righteousness of Life. Doing What is right. Such is the Code of Conduct that sustains the Right ethics in life.

Is there the Injustice within Righteousness? The Danda is the path of Righteousness. It is not Dharma Megha which is Samandhi an absorption of the mind into Contemplation and complete detachment/Vairag.

Dharmakaya.....recognition of the illusion. Viewing from that above the 5th plane or that from within Soul.
The overattachment to worldly bonds is the source of sin. Every human beingexists in this stage of over attachment to world. Pravrutti is thereduction of this over attachment so that limited proper attachment to theworldly bonds is reached there by the balance of this society is achieved. Overattachment to worldly bonds is injustice and pravrutti is the justice.

Nivrutti is total detachment from these worldly bonds so that total attachmentto God results. The human being is inherently associated with thecharacteristic of attachment to either world or God. As the reduction of theattachment to the worldly bonds proceeds, simultaneously the attachment to Godproceeds. If there is ten percent reduction in the attachment to worldly bonds,it means, there is ten percent attachment to God. Therefore, pravrutti does notoppose nivrutti. In fact, pravrutti is the middle stage between over attachmentto world and over attachment to God. Without pravrutti, nivrutti isimpossible. Pravrutti is aiming at nivrutti only. Jaimini Sutras dealwith pravrutti and Brahma Sutras deal with nivrutti. Ramanuja explained themeaning of the word Atha, which is the first word of the first Brahma Sutra,like this: you must start nivrutti after pravrutti only.

Without reachingpravrutti, the middle stage, nivrutti, the final stage cannot be reached. Thisis logically correct. Shankara told that if the human being has already reachednivrutti in the previous birth, in this birth it can straightly start fromnivrutti without going back to pravrutti again. Hence, there is nocontradiction between Ramanuja and Shankara in the context of the meaning ofthe first word of the first Brahma Sutra.
Basisof nivrutti is the acceptance of existence of God. If the existence of God itself is notaccepted, pravrutti becomes meaningless and unstable. Social justicecannot be maintained if the existence of God is not accepted. If Goddoes not exist, what is the use of reducing the over attachment to this world?If you say that the over attachment to worldly bonds leads to sin andinjustice, which in turn disturb the balance of society, nobody understands theoverall effect of it.

In such case, everybody wants that all other human beingsshould follow pravrutti to maintain the balance of the society and individuallycommits sins. This becomes the famous story that everybody should pour a cup ofmilk in the empty tank kept by the king so that everybody can pour a cup ofwater, which cannot be detected. Everybody wants the social justice andbalance of society, but at the same time wants his or her over attachmentresult in the sin, to proceed in undetectable way. You cannot controlevery human being through the law of court and the police department. Thereason is that every individual working in any department is with the samepsychology. Today, you are hearing the news that an honorable judge of thehonorable court has taken huge bribe to protect the injustice! Every employeein every department is influenced by the corruption. The employee may belong togovernment or administration or parliament or assembly or even judiciarysystem. Very few only exist, who follow justice due to fear of God.


It is verydifficult if you say that an atheist can also remain pure. The reason is thatone day or other, the atheist will think about the ultimate in followingjustice. In his mind, certainly, the coming question will be “what is theultimate benefit for me if i follow the justice and what is the ultimate lossto me if i do injustice in an undetectable way?” He will think that sinceGod is absent, there is none to reward him for following the justice and thereis none to punish him for doing the injustice in hidden way. If theinjustice is not done in the hidden way, there may be punishment in this worldby the court of law. If you can escape the punishment here by doing theinjustice in talented hidden way, there is materialistic benefit that promotesyour enjoyment in this world. The final conclusion will be to do sin inundetectable way so that you can escape the ultimate punishment here and at thesame time enjoy the materialistic benefit of the sin in this world. You canpropagate the justice through your speech everywhere so that the social balanceis maintained. If the social balance is not maintained, your enjoyment herealso gets disturbed. Therefore, maintain the social balance to have yourpersonnel enjoyment without any disturbance. Hence, go on influencingeverybody through speech to follow justice. Thus, everybody wants to maintainthe social balance with selfish motive only and not for the sake of God sinceGod does not exist. Hence, atheism will lead to social chaos one day or other.

In the case of theism, there is God to reward you for following the justice.Even if you do the sin in hidden way, the omniscient God will detect and punishyou here or the upper world. The religion may be defective due to certainblind and foolish customs and traditions. But, the religion is far better thanthe atheism because the religion provides the golden theism to control the sinand maintain the social balance.

MMC
06-02-2012, 01:00 PM
Ah.....but D-Swami. In Journey of Soul, one may indeed live within the sheath of the world of the physical as an atheist. As again, Soul may be required to learn the experience before that Soul's ability to reach Self Realization, then God Realization and movement within the Soul Planes.

That which of the physical will be left with the physical universes. Which would include any planes under that of Soul.