Do police have the right to stop and identify you?

[Cthulhu]

Serious question.

Committing no crime more mind you, can they stop you while driving just to identify you?

There appears to be some dispute on this on the net and I was wondering if the legal types wanted to weigh in on it.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

[Peter1469]

At border crossings (international). Other than that they can't detain you without probable cause. You are free to leave. Their are rare exceptions like DUI check points and I haven't looked into the particulars about those in a long time.

[strollingbonez]

no

[Matty]

At border crossings (international). Other than that they can't detain you without probable cause. You are free to leave. Their are rare exceptions like DUI check points and I haven't looked into the particulars about those in a long time.
What if they gave an APB out and are looking for suspects of a crime, can't they set up roadblocks and check everyone?

[donttread]

Serious question.

Committing no crime more mind you, can they stop you while driving just to identify you?

There appears to be some dispute on this on the net and I was wondering if the legal types wanted to weigh in on it.

No, not IMHO. We do not have to carry "citizenship papers " in America. Hell, apparently you don't even need to be a citizen at all.
Having said that, it's likely that if you refused to produce ID your legal fight would come AFTER night in jail, because of the police state we live in

[lynn]

In Arizona, you must carry identification at all times even if you are just walking your dog.

[PolWatch]

I have seen people be detained at roadblocks for arguing about this. The official reason is DUI checks, but they also check licenses, insurance and auto registration. Checkpoint Charlie!

[Crepitus]

Pretty sure they aren't supposed to. That doesn't mean they won't do it though.

[Common Sense]

If you're driving you must identify yourself. If not, it gets a little grey. You don't have to identify yourself, but they can detain you if they have probable cause...and they can practically make up practical cause.

Regardless of your decision to cooperate, take out your phone and film your encounter and tell them that you are doing so.

[Chris]

As I understand it, they can ask to see identification, but you are not required to show it. But don't show it and they could well make something up to detain you.

[Chris]

Looked it up: According to TEX PE. CODE ANN. § 38.02 "(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information." - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/PE/8/38/38.02#sthash.ubrc8BzV.dpuf

Glad I haven't tried refusing!

[PolWatch]

Looked it up: According to TEX PE. CODE ANN. § 38.02 "(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information." - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/PE/8/38/38.02#sthash.ubrc8BzV.dpuf

Glad I haven't tried refusing!

But is a license check considered a lawful arrest? Sounds like a catch-22 situation to me!

[Chris]

But is a license check considered a lawful arrest? Sounds like a catch-22 situation to me!

Just waking up, need coffee. Indeed, it says after arrest you must, not before. But they will likely find a reason.

[PolWatch]

<passing Chris a mug> :wink:

[zelmo1234]

Check points for things like DUI, have been found constitutional, as they do not discriminate.

However, the other area of just checking for identification is and YES and NO answer.

They can't just check you ID. however, if there is reasonable cause. For example John Doe just smacked his girl friend around and he left the house wearing blue jeans and a dark shirt, he is 5'10" tall and medium weight?

You are likely to get stopped if you fit the description. And there is nothing illegal about that.

[Safety]

Looked it up: According to TEX PE. CODE ANN. § 38.02 "(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information." - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/PE/8/38/38.02#sthash.ubrc8BzV.dpuf

Glad I haven't tried refusing!

The keyword there is "arrested". That's why you see many people ask "am I being arrested?" or "am I being detained?" if the officer says no, then you should be free to walk away. If they say yes, then you can ask what for. I have also found out that once an officer has it in his mind to arrest you, there is little talking you can do to change his mind.

[Chris]

<passing Chris a mug> :wink:

< thanks http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/coffee2.gif >

[Chris]

The keyword there is "arrested". That's why you see many people ask "am I being arrested?" or "am I being detained?" if the officer says no, then you should be free to walk away. If they say yes, then you can ask what for. I have also found out that once an officer has it in his mind to arrest you, there is little talking you can do to change his mind.

Yes, polwatch pointed that out. Thanks!

[Cthulhu]

At border crossings (international). Other than that they can't detain you without probable cause. You are free to leave. Their are rare exceptions like DUI check points and I haven't looked into the particulars about those in a long time.

That is what I was pretty sure of. But not wanting to get the hell beat out of me and get fined and dragged to jail at midnight, I complied.

I had a head light out, but that isn't a crime, it is an infraction. Officer numbnuts wouldn't say whether or not I am being detained either, despite repeated asking.


Pretty sure they aren't supposed to. That doesn't mean they won't do it though.

Damn right they will.


If you're driving you must identify yourself. If not, it gets a little grey. You don't have to identify yourself, but they can detain you if they have probable cause...and they can practically make up practical cause.

Regardless of your decision to cooperate, take out your phone and film your encounter and tell them that you are doing so.

I made a gentleman's agreement with the supervisor on the side of the road that they wouldn't not cite me for anything so long as I didn't have anything outstanding or warrants. Camera probably saved my bacon last night man.

Interestingly enough, all I got was an obnoxious lecture on the side of the road and they eventually let me go. Does me having a license and vehicle registration in another state have anything to do with that you think?

[Crepitus]

Does me having a license and vehicle registration in another state have anything to do with that you think?
Yup. Extra paperwork for them.

[Mr. Freeze]

Serious question.

Committing no crime more mind you, can they stop you while driving just to identify you?

There appears to be some dispute on this on the net and I was wondering if the legal types wanted to weigh in on it.

It depends on how far you want to take it and your judge. I'm sort of an expert in being on the receiving end of this since I'm young looking with a beard and longish hair. I can't drive without some fuck stopping me or pulling me over for "something" and needing to ask for ID or check my car.

I usually say "hold on while I call my sister who is a criminal defense attorney".

[Cthulhu]

It depends on how far you want to take it and your judge. I'm sort of an expert in being on the receiving end of this since I'm young looking with a beard and longish hair. I can't drive without some $#@! stopping me or pulling me over for "something" and needing to ask for ID or check my car.

I usually say "hold on while I call my sister who is a criminal defense attorney".

Honestly I am sick of dealing with cops. But I don't have the time to devote to duking it out in court. Last time I did the judge just ordered the guilty verdict anyways regardless of the state's lack of standing and everything.

I am convinced that having the camera handy was what saved my bacon last night. Jackwagon tried to open the car door on me. Luckily I have this dirty habit of locking my car doors and only rolling the window down enough to talk to them.

I just want to get from A to B without being bothered is all. But since you are an expert on this, how to you get them to just admit whether or not they are detaining you? I asked several times, and this wanker wouldn't say it, but he would only say that I'm not allowed to go. I got nothing but verbal acrobatics from this clown.

In theory, if I am not being detained, I should be able to just drive off correct?

[Mr. Freeze]

Honestly I am sick of dealing with cops. But I don't have the time to devote to duking it out in court. Last time I did the judge just ordered the guilty verdict anyways regardless of the state's lack of standing and everything.

I am convinced that having the camera handy was what saved my bacon last night. Jackwagon tried to open the car door on me. Luckily I have this dirty habit of locking my car doors and only rolling the window down enough to talk to them.

I just want to get from A to B without being bothered is all. But since you are an expert on this, how to you get them to just admit whether or not they are detaining you? I asked several times, and this wanker wouldn't say it, but he would only say that I'm not allowed to go. I got nothing but verbal acrobatics from this clown.

In theory, if I am not being detained, I should be able to just drive off correct?

In theory but this is the New America. They could shoot you, dude.

I spent 6 nights in jail last summer because I asked questions of police officers. I have zero charges but I look like I could be holding, I guess.

[nic34]

Serious question.

Committing no crime more mind you, can they stop you while driving just to identify you?

There appears to be some dispute on this on the net and I was wondering if the legal types wanted to weigh in on it.

HELL no

[Mr. Freeze]

HELL no

In theory. You want to chance it today? They shot a 12 year old kid within less time than it takes to roll down a window. You want to drive off?

[nic34]

http://www.copblock.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/COP-BLOCK-IDLAWS.jpg

[Cthulhu]

In theory but this is the New America. They could shoot you, dude.

I spent 6 nights in jail last summer because I asked questions of police officers. I have zero charges but I look like I could be holding, I guess.

Well, this is idaho, they aren't quite that retarded - yet. But I don't feel the inclination to test my boundaries against simpletons with firearms either.

3 squad cars for a headlight that was out. Ridiculous.

[nic34]

In theory. You want to chance it today? They shot a 12 year old kid within less time than it takes to roll down a window. You want to drive off?

I know, in theory. If you are stopped while driving it is a little risky to not identify. But asking you just walking down the street is bullshit.

I was once picked up walking home from our downtown area when I was 13. Without saying a word, the cop immediately took me to a store I had been to earlier to have the owner ID for a purse snatching. No one could ID me.

Cops then took me to the station. (Small town California.) They had the lady there, and she also didn't ID me. They then told me to go. Problem was, no one would give me a ride home and I was like 10 miles farther away than when I started.

Of course mom wasn't buying the story why I was so late. That's when I started calling cops Officer Obie and pig ......

[PolWatch]

Well, this is idaho, they aren't quite that retarded - yet. But I don't feel the inclination to test my boundaries against simpletons with firearms either.

3 squad cars for a headlight that was out. Ridiculous.

I would be afraid if I drove off, they would start a pursuit and things would really get bad. If cops can fire 147 times into a car because they heard one backfire, I wouldn't take a chance...but I am a wuss. This is how they get away with things like this...people know the cops can do what they want and usually get away with it. We are always in the wrong (in their view).

[Mr. Freeze]

People look at me and think "pot smoking hippy" so naturally I get harassed by the man.

[PolWatch]

that is one of the few advantages of being an old white female...they think I'm nice (shows how bad their judgment is) :rollseyes:

[Cthulhu]

I would be afraid if I drove off, they would start a pursuit and things would really get bad. If cops can fire 147 times into a car because they heard one backfire, I wouldn't take a chance...but I am a wuss. This is how they get away with things like this...people know the cops can do what they want and usually get away with it. We are always in the wrong (in their view).

Exactly why I don't feel like pushing my boundaries with simpletons armed with guns and such. As much as I love my rights and freedoms to go unmolested from A to B. Things haven't gotten bad enough where I am willing to risk it.

And if something retarded does happen, what happens to the family I provide for?

No good comes from that.

[Mr. Freeze]

This is why they've already won.

[Chris]

Exactly why I don't feel like pushing my boundaries with simpletons armed with guns and such. As much as I love my rights and freedoms to go unmolested from A to B. Things haven't gotten bad enough where I am willing to risk it.

And if something retarded does happen, what happens to the family I provide for?

No good comes from that.


Monopoly on force, no one you can turn to for defense. Sure, in court, maybe, but that's too late.

[PolWatch]

How can there be justice in court when the only necessity is fear? It doesn't have to be a reasonable fear, just shaking in their bvd's fear. I could jump up and yell boo! and get shot under that criteria. I had thought cameras would be a good idea...until the recent NYC decision proved that having proof doesn't change a thing.

[Cthulhu]

This is why they've already won.

Exactly. The average single bubba can be more cavalier about this sort of thing. But essentially, my family is held hostage should I take it further and exercise my rights fully.

The only solution is to exist where law enforcement/government influence is minimal, I. E. off grid or just far away in a rural setting.

[Cthulhu]

Monopoly on force, no one you can turn to for defense. Sure, in court, maybe, but that's too late.

Well, The Bundy Ranch was an exception to be noted. But then again, they had tons of neighbors willing to show up with guns in their defense.

I don't exactly have that out here.

[Cthulhu]

How can there be justice in court when the only necessity is fear? It doesn't have to be a reasonable fear, just shaking in their bvd's fear. I could jump up and yell boo! and get shot under that criteria. I had thought cameras would be a good idea...until the recent NYC decision proved that having proof doesn't change a thing.

It won't change the behavior in most instances, but it gives you much more credence in the civil actions and criminal defense after the event.

Which is of course only worthwhile if you survive the encounter and aren't maimed horridly.

[Mr. Freeze]

Exactly. The average single bubba can be more cavalier about this sort of thing. But essentially, my family is held hostage should I take it further and exercise my rights fully.

The only solution is to exist where law enforcement/government influence is minimal, I. E. off grid or just far away in a rural setting.

That's my point. Don't call the police until you own your own town. I picked a small enough "ville" that I can literally own it and pay the cops salary.

I'm going to hire Animal Mother :)

[Cthulhu]

That's my point. Don't call the police until you own your own town. I picked a small enough "ville" that I can literally own it and pay the cops salary.

I'm going to hire @Animal Mother (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1166) :)

Yeah, I heard a little about your evil plan. I approve. Hey, the cattle you bought, horned or not horned?

[PolWatch]

That's my point. Don't call the police until you own your own town. I picked a small enough "ville" that I can literally own it and pay the cops salary.

I'm going to hire @Animal Mother (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1166) :)

I suspect your town will be safe...not so sure about visitors without proper introductions....:rollseyes:

[Chris]

Well, The Bundy Ranch was an exception to be noted. But then again, they had tons of neighbors willing to show up with guns in their defense.

I don't exactly have that out here.

Yep, the wild west is still somewhat anarchistic and people can depend on each other more.

[Redrose]

Serious question.

Committing no crime more mind you, can they stop you while driving just to identify you?

There appears to be some dispute on this on the net and I was wondering if the legal types wanted to weigh in on it.


If there is no PC, the answer is No. If there is a Bolo out and your vehicle matches the description, that's PC. They have no authority to stop you just to identify you for no reason.

[Peter1469]

What if they gave an APB out and are looking for suspects of a crime, can't they set up roadblocks and check everyone?


If they follow their procedures and if it is reasonable for the crime. Or risk heavy judgments in civil law suits.

[Peter1469]

Lawfully arrested is the key. You can only be arrested for probable cause that a crime was committed and you may have committed it.


Looked it up: According to TEX PE. CODE ANN. § 38.02 "(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information." - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/PE/8/38/38.02#sthash.ubrc8BzV.dpuf

Glad I haven't tried refusing!

[Peter1469]

Honestly I am sick of dealing with cops. But I don't have the time to devote to duking it out in court. Last time I did the judge just ordered the guilty verdict anyways regardless of the state's lack of standing and everything.

I am convinced that having the camera handy was what saved my bacon last night. Jackwagon tried to open the car door on me. Luckily I have this dirty habit of locking my car doors and only rolling the window down enough to talk to them.

I just want to get from A to B without being bothered is all. But since you are an expert on this, how to you get them to just admit whether or not they are detaining you? I asked several times, and this wanker wouldn't say it, but he would only say that I'm not allowed to go. I got nothing but verbal acrobatics from this clown.

In theory, if I am not being detained, I should be able to just drive off correct?

In practice you should say, am I being detained?

If yes- what is the probably cause

If no- then I am free to go correct?

Repeat as needed. I wouldn't just drive off.

[Don]

I have seen people be detained at roadblocks for arguing about this. The official reason is DUI checks, but they also check licenses, insurance and auto registration. Checkpoint Charlie!

You are right. DUI was just the camels nose in the tent. I hate drunk drivers and I think they should be treated harshly but I don't agree with stopping everyone to find them.