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Codename Section
12-30-2014, 03:50 PM
From Daily Paul

http://www.dailypaul.com/331376/rand-paul-introduces-bill-to-defund-federal-programs-supporting-the-militarization-of-police


Cheryl Chumley reports that this bill will be patterned after a bill proposed by Tom Coburn, who said,"There is no role in for the federal government in local and state police forces in our country," during a Tuesday hearing, the ‘Oversight of Federal Programs for Equipping State and Local Law Enforcement,’ of the full Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.



The bill will likely have bi-partisan support, Sen. Claire McCaskill had this to say, just minutes after Sen. Coburn spoke: "I am confident militarized [police] tactics are not consistent with the First Amendment rights of free speech and free assembly,’ she said, reminding how Ferguson, Missouri, streets were recently overwhelmed with camo-dressed police carrying military-grade weapons and riding atop an armored vehicle.

And one more point the Missouri Democrat raised: Florida police departments, for example, maintain among their equipment stocks dozens of MRAPs, or mine-resistant, ambush protected vehicles.

But Florida’s National Guard?"


“None."

Peter1469
12-30-2014, 03:52 PM
It will be interesting to see how this bill goes. And the debate that it will create.

The Sage of Main Street
12-30-2014, 03:53 PM
Jihadi sleeper cells approve of this message.

PolWatch
12-30-2014, 03:55 PM
I really want to see who openly opposes this.

Codename Section
12-30-2014, 03:57 PM
Jihadi sleeper cells approve of this message.

Yeh Sage it's really the local police tracking these dudes down. :rollseyes:

Bob
12-30-2014, 04:00 PM
I really want to see who openly opposes this.

Too much is made of the type of vehicle a cop uses. Recall that despite just one ex military type vehicle, the protests turned both crude and ugly. Even in the nearby Oakland CA they have constant busting up of property and open theft, all in the name of protest, one can't blame that on some military type vehicle. It is not the vehicle, but the men inside it that make the difference.

When thieves are confronted, do you suppose a tiny Fiat might do the job better?

PolWatch
12-30-2014, 04:01 PM
When I see that about the MRAP's it makes me want to scream. I remember people in this area raising money to have the vehicles amour plated before the local National Guard units were sent to Iraq!

Captain Obvious
12-30-2014, 04:06 PM
Two issues, a Constitutional one and a practical one.

We are becoming an increasingly violent and divided nation. And who do you trust more, the feds or the Republic? Or both, or neither?

Codename Section
12-30-2014, 04:12 PM
Two issues, a Constitutional one and a practical one.

We are becoming an increasingly violent and divided nation. And who do you trust more, the feds or the Republic? Or both, or neither?

Actually we don't. Violent Crime, according to the FBI is down by 4.4% (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/11/11/Violent-crimes-down-44-percent-in-US-in-2013/7291415743974/) all across the nation on a continuing trend from the late 90s. Last year's report is similar.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/november/crime-statistics-for-2013-released/crime-statistics-for-2013-released

Captain Obvious
12-30-2014, 04:20 PM
Actually we don't. Violent Crime, according to the FBI is down by 4.4% (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/11/11/Violent-crimes-down-44-percent-in-US-in-2013/7291415743974/) all across the nation on a continuing trend from the late 90s. Last year's report is similar.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/november/crime-statistics-for-2013-released/crime-statistics-for-2013-released

All of the sudden the FBI is credible.

I'll just move along since there's nothing to see here then...

Codename Section
12-30-2014, 04:25 PM
All of the sudden the FBI is credible.

I'll just move along since there's nothing to see here then...

Would you prefer Breitbart? I don't know what to do with you anymore. You don't accept federally collected statistics now?

Ok.:huh:

Common
12-30-2014, 04:28 PM
From Daily Paul

http://www.dailypaul.com/331376/rand-paul-introduces-bill-to-defund-federal-programs-supporting-the-militarization-of-police

I agree with him, the police have been over weaponized since 911 for domestic terrorism that never became the issue that was thought it would. The police didnt ask for these weapons they were given by the feds. Once the depts have the weapons they are mandated to train their officers how to use them.
My sons in law cant stand it, they say they will never use all this. Its been a huge waste of money.

Captain Obvious
12-30-2014, 04:39 PM
Would you prefer Breitbart? I don't know what to do with you anymore. You don't accept federally collected statistics now?

Ok.:huh:

Well, there's been a lot of talk by the Libertarian contingency here about how corrupt the FBI is, should I provide links?

Now their publicized data is considerable.

I just find that approach a bit striking.

I still stand by my remarks regardless, we are an increasingly violent and confronting society.

nic34
12-30-2014, 04:40 PM
From Daily Paul

http://www.dailypaul.com/331376/rand-paul-introduces-bill-to-defund-federal-programs-supporting-the-militarization-of-police

You go Paul.

The Xl
12-30-2014, 04:59 PM
All of the sudden the FBI is credible.

I'll just move along since there's nothing to see here then...

You were just going off about followin teh statz not that long ago....

Which is it?

The Wash
12-30-2014, 05:06 PM
Well, there's been a lot of talk by the Libertarian contingency here about how corrupt the FBI is, should I provide links?

Now their publicized data is considerable.

I just find that approach a bit striking.

I still stand by my remarks regardless, we are an increasingly violent and confronting society.

It's those same stats you cite for black violence. Where else they coming from?

del
12-30-2014, 05:18 PM
Well, there's been a lot of talk by the Libertarian contingency here about how corrupt the FBI is, should I provide links?Now their publicized data is considerable.I just find that approach a bit striking.I still stand by my remarks regardless, we are an increasingly violent and confronting society.weren't you the one that was just claiming how important stats are in understanding the issues?i think the problem with the stats is that they prove you wrong this time.don't be a hippocrates
I don't know why everyone immediately starts beshitting when stats are brought up.I know why actually, because we have agendas - stats are used to support/shoot down agendas.Except for me of course, being the only wholly unbiased member of tPF I just want folks to understand the stats and discuss issues from firm statistical grounding instead of hearsay and hyperbole.:rofl:

The Xl
12-30-2014, 05:38 PM
Ouch.

Shake it off cap, happens to the best of us.

The Xl
12-30-2014, 05:38 PM
Fuckin' hippocrates maine.

Captain Obvious
12-30-2014, 05:41 PM
It's those same stats you cite for black violence. Where else they coming from?

The FBI isn't the only entity to publish stats.

Nor did I claim the FBI was wholly corrupt an evil like the resident Libertarian crowd did, in clear and present fashion.

I just simply knocked down what yinz set up.

You're welcome.

Captain Obvious
12-30-2014, 05:42 PM
Ouch.

Shake it off cap, happens to the best of us.

Shake what off?

You can take a mulligan, you sliced the last one.

Captain Obvious
12-30-2014, 05:43 PM
weren't you the one that was just claiming how important stats are in understanding the issues?i think the problem with the stats is that they prove you wrong this time.don't be a hippocrates:rofl:

Yep, and if you read that dialogue carefully you just might be able to connect the dots.

You can do it, I know you can.

del
12-30-2014, 05:54 PM
Yep, and if you read that dialogue carefully you just might be able to connect the dots.

You can do it, I know you can.

it's almost always a good idea to put down the shovel

you're welcome

Captain Obvious
12-30-2014, 06:00 PM
it's almost always a good idea to put down the shovel

you're welcome

Be not afraid, tomorrow's another day.

del
12-30-2014, 06:02 PM
Be not afraid, tomorrow's another day.

whatever lol

Captain Obvious
12-30-2014, 06:04 PM
whatever lol

Sure, let me dumb it down for ya.

I never said the FBI's stats were unreliable. I pointed out the hypocrisy of our resident Libertarians who have ranted on end of the evils and corruption of the organization - and then cite their publishings as reliable.

Anytime I can help ya out, I'm here.

del
12-30-2014, 06:08 PM
Sure, let me dumb it down for ya.

I never said the FBI's stats were unreliable. I pointed out the hypocrisy of our resident Libertarians who have ranted on end of the evils and corruption of the organization - and then cite their publishings as reliable.

Anytime I can help ya out, I'm here.

when it comes to dumbing it down, you're my go-to guy.

let me smarten it up for you- violent crime has been steadily going down since the early 90's, whether you believe it or not.

your insistence that that's not the case is stupid, and your attempt to put it off on the hypocrisy of our resident libertarians is disingenuous .

is that clear enough or shall i resort to a chart?

:rofl:

The Xl
12-30-2014, 06:12 PM
Shake what off?

You can take a mulligan, you sliced the last one.

Either your assertion was way off base, or you were being a hypocrattes.

It's one or the other.

The Xl
12-30-2014, 06:14 PM
Sure, let me dumb it down for ya.

I never said the FBI's stats were unreliable. I pointed out the hypocrisy of our resident Libertarians who have ranted on end of the evils and corruption of the organization - and then cite their publishings as reliable.

Anytime I can help ya out, I'm here.

Where have libertarians ever disputed the crime statistics and whatnot from any federal or state institution? Most even cite them to show the flaws in the system. Pointing out that said institutions are evil has nothing to do with disputing the statistics.

Captain Obvious
12-30-2014, 06:23 PM
when it comes to dumbing it down, you're my go-to guy.

let me smarten it up for you- violent crime has been steadily going down since the early 90's, whether you believe it or not.

your insistence that that's not the case is stupid, and your attempt to put it off on the hypocrisy of our resident libertarians is disingenuous .

is that clear enough or shall i resort to a chart?

:rofl:

Sure, whip out your chart.

Seriously.

Captain Obvious
12-30-2014, 06:24 PM
Where have libertarians ever disputed the crime statistics and whatnot from any federal or state institution? Most even cite them to show the flaws in the system. Pointing out that said institutions are evil has nothing to do with disputing the statistics.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/54786125.jpg

del
12-30-2014, 06:26 PM
Sure, whip out your chart.

Seriously.

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ldah6rdp6ukvngoyqi1fcg.gif

Captain Obvious
12-30-2014, 06:45 PM
Murder rates are trending flat somewhat the last 10 years, rape and robbery are down. What these stats don't show is public attitude though, the degeneration of respect for authority and for other people, that's my point.

If you want to believe that we're a more homogenous and compassionate society then fine, buy into that all you want. I don't, not at this juncture.

More recent data, last couple years would be interesting to digest.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Violent_Crime_in_the_United_States.png/800px-Violent_Crime_in_the_United_States.png

Peter1469
12-30-2014, 07:12 PM
A lot of this is generational. As large numbers of gang bangers gets jailed or dead crime goes down. When a new generation is bred into crime it will rise again.

Cthulhu
12-30-2014, 07:13 PM
No t so sure FBI stats are entirely pure or corrupt. But local crime stats are fudged all the time to make people feel better.

I don't see why the FBI would be any different though just because it is a national organization.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

PolWatch
12-30-2014, 07:31 PM
Even if the FBI is reporting exactly as they receive them, local law enforcement changes the classifications of crimes. Our area had a mini-scandal several years ago over changing rapes to assaults when reporting. Looked like a real change in crime stats...until a pesky reporter started digging into it. uh oh

Cthulhu
12-30-2014, 08:06 PM
Even if the FBI is reporting exactly as they receive them, local law enforcement changes the classifications of crimes. Our area had a mini-scandal several years ago over changing rapes to assaults when reporting. Looked like a real change in crime stats...until a pesky reporter started digging into it. uh oh
Exactly what I'm talking about.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

Alyosha
12-30-2014, 10:06 PM
Murder rates are trending flat somewhat the last 10 years, rape and robbery are down. What these stats don't show is public attitude though, the degeneration of respect for authority and for other people, that's my point.

If you want to believe that we're a more homogenous and compassionate society then fine, buy into that all you want. I don't, not at this juncture.

More recent data, last couple years would be interesting to digest.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Violent_Crime_in_the_United_States.png/800px-Violent_Crime_in_the_United_States.png


You're graph shows us coming down from the 1990s crack epidemics. And the murder rate is still trending down albeit slower from the mid 00's.

Not sure how any of this proves rates are going up.

What's going up is 24 hour news network coverage which scares the shit out of everyone.

Common
12-30-2014, 10:10 PM
No t so sure FBI stats are entirely pure or corrupt. But local crime stats are fudged all the time to make people feel better.

I don't see why the FBI would be any different though just because it is a national organization.

Big city crime stats are most certainly fudged at the behest of the mayor via commissioner to chief for political expedience. No one wants to run for relection with the news reporting a soaring crime rate.
Police dont have to fudge numbers, what the numbers are dont effect them its the politicians. Although in some cases of elected Police CHiefs and Sheriffs again it becomes political to fudge the number so they can run on HEY LOOK how I lowered crime

Common
12-30-2014, 10:11 PM
You're graph shows us coming down from the 1990s crack epidemics. And the murder rate is still trending down albeit slower from the mid 00's.

Not sure how any of this proves rates are going up.

What's going up is 24 hour news network coverage which scares the $#@! out of everyone.

Do you think policing has anything to do with rising or dropping crime rates aloysha

Alyosha
12-30-2014, 10:15 PM
Do you think policing has anything to do with rising or dropping crime rates aloysha

I think the change is related to the crack epidemic going bye-bye. I got to Detroit in the middle of it and was firsthand witness to the turf wars that once established don't need to be restablished. This is similar to the move made by the Italians in the 20-30s and the Russian mob in the early 00's.

Once you kill the people who need killing it's all maintenance.

Common
12-30-2014, 10:17 PM
In 1988 NYC was gripped in crime there were 2200 murders a year. There was a crack epidemic and the police had been backed off aggressive policing around the same time A rookie police officer was assassinated in his care in 1988 while protecting a heroic witness who was testifying about crack dealers in her neighborhood. When that happened NYC citizens demanded the police take back the city and it started to be cleaned up by 1994 guiliani told NYPD the people want the crime stopped, make my city safe and thats why you have the NYC today that you can walk on times square and 8th ave from 42nd on up. In the 70s and 80s that could be a death sentence.

Common
12-30-2014, 10:20 PM
I think the change is related to the crack epidemic going bye-bye. I got to Detroit in the middle of it and was firsthand witness to the turf wars that once established don't need to be restablished. This is similar to the move made by the Italians in the 20-30s and the Russian mob in the early 00's.


Once you kill the people who need killing it's all maintenance.


hah I wrote my post on the crack epidemic before I saw yours http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/smilies/smile.png yes the crack epidemic in NYC changed NYers view on policing. Police play a major role in crime rates, when they are made to stand down simple truth is crime rates soar. When they become more aggressive crime rates recede. That doenst change the number fudging by the politicians.

Alyosha
12-30-2014, 10:20 PM
In 1988 NYC was gripped in crime there were 2200 murders a year. There was a crack epidemic and the police had been backed off aggressive policing around the same time A rookie police officer was assassinated in his care in 1988 while protecting a heroic witness who was testifying about crack dealers in her neighborhood. When that happened NYC citizens demanded the police take back the city and it started to be cleaned up by 1994 guiliani told NYPD the people want the crime stopped, make my city safe and thats why you have the NYC today that you can walk on times square and 8th ave from 42nd on up. In the 70s and 80s that could be a death sentence.

I'm sure good policing helped bring it down Common. I also know that this drug war makes billionaires out of assholes and puts gun violence on our streets.

In Russia they have drug laws that look harsh but they chose not to enforce them (other than 3rd tier selling) because the problem will just work itself out (yes, harsh) as people kill themselves. Then they don't have to worry about the cost of policing or jailing.

So when "crocodile" became an epidemic they did very little to stop it.

As a result it looks like their crime rates went down, and in a way they did.

Sorry I'm a little loopy now. I had surgery today.

Common
12-30-2014, 10:25 PM
Meth in fla is as big an epidemic as crack was in NY. Meth labs everywhere here, theres small towns inundated with them.

Fla just surpassed NY as the 3rd most populous state.

Common
12-30-2014, 10:26 PM
I'm sure good policing helped bring it down @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659). I also know that this drug war makes billionaires out of $#@!s and puts gun violence on our streets.

In Russia they have drug laws that look harsh but they chose not to enforce them (other than 3rd tier selling) because the problem will just work itself out (yes, harsh) as people kill themselves. Then they don't have to worry about the cost of policing or jailing.

So when "crocodile" became an epidemic they did very little to stop it.

As a result it looks like their crime rates went down, and in a way they did.

Sorry I'm a little loopy now. I had surgery today.

Oh I didnt know you had surgery, I hope nothing serious and Get well fast aly

Captain Obvious
12-31-2014, 08:20 AM
You're graph shows us coming down from the 1990s crack epidemics. And the murder rate is still trending down albeit slower from the mid 00's.

Not sure how any of this proves rates are going up.

What's going up is 24 hour news network coverage which scares the shit out of everyone.

I understand your suggestion about coverage shock but I don't really subscribe to that. As has been suggested already, I'm skeptical of the data - I'm not suggesting it's wrong, right, baked, accurate. Maybe it's misleading.

I do believe we're becoming a more socially hostile society, part of that is from every day life from simple things like common courtesy (which is virtually non-existent anymore) to the overall general decay of our neighborhoods. Stats and data don't factor these intangibles in.

Explain to me why my suggestion is wrong.

nic34
12-31-2014, 09:49 AM
Meanwhile......


Bombardment by the 24/7 media hasn't changed the fact that race relations have improved in the US




Race Relations In America Improving Every Year, And The Media Hates It


Many readers of this post clicked through only because they were appalled at the implication in that headline – that racism in America is on the decline. This empirical, undeniable reality provokes predictable expressions of disbelief, rage, and frustration from those who wish to believe it is not true. They are the predictable reactions one would expect to follow any expression of heresy which contradicts canonical “truths.”

Gallup polling over the course of the last 50 years (http://www.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx) measures the trajectory of how blacks and whites view one another. Since Gallup started recording data on race relations in 1963, the trend has been an undeniably positive one.

In June of that year, respondents were asked “do you think that blacks have as good a chance as white people in your community to get any kind of job for which they are qualified?” Only 39 percent said that they were, while 48 percent said that they were not. The next time they asked that question, in June of 1978, that result had flipped with 67 percent of respondents saying that African-Americans were qualified for and had access to whatever opportunities they chose to seek while just 24 percent disagreed. Though the number has fluctuated throughout history, today between 71 and 79 percent of Americans think blacks have “as good a chance” as white people to have access to the career of their choice.


http://www.mediaite.com/online/race-relations-in-america-improving-every-year-and-the-media-hates-it/

Captain Obvious
12-31-2014, 09:52 AM
Meanwhile......


Bombardment by the 24/7 media hasn't changed the fact that race relations have improved in the US




Race Relations In America Improving Every Year, And The Media Hates It


Many readers of this post clicked through only because they were appalled at the implication in that headline – that racism in America is on the decline. This empirical, undeniable reality provokes predictable expressions of disbelief, rage, and frustration from those who wish to believe it is not true. They are the predictable reactions one would expect to follow any expression of heresy which contradicts canonical “truths.”

Gallup polling over the course of the last 50 years (http://www.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx) measures the trajectory of how blacks and whites view one another. Since Gallup started recording data on race relations in 1963, the trend has been an undeniably positive one.

In June of that year, respondents were asked “do you think that blacks have as good a chance as white people in your community to get any kind of job for which they are qualified?” Only 39 percent said that they were, while 48 percent said that they were not. The next time they asked that question, in June of 1978, that result had flipped with 67 percent of respondents saying that African-Americans were qualified for and had access to whatever opportunities they chose to seek while just 24 percent disagreed. Though the number has fluctuated throughout history, today between 71 and 79 percent of Americans think blacks have “as good a chance” as white people to have access to the career of their choice.


http://www.mediaite.com/online/race-relations-in-america-improving-every-year-and-the-media-hates-it/

:biglaugh:

The Sage of Main Street
12-31-2014, 01:53 PM
Yeh Sage it's really the local police tracking these dudes down. :rollseyes: Since the display of maximum force by the Missouri defenders failed to show up again when dropping the charges against one of their own caused a riot, who else could it have sent a message to? By the results, we should infer that feralphile government agents informed the wannabe-copkiller mob that the strong defense was a just a show meant for some other bloodthirsty group, not them.

The Sage of Main Street
12-31-2014, 02:00 PM
Violent Crime, according to the FBI is down by 4.4% (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/11/11/Violent-crimes-down-44-percent-in-US-in-2013/7291415743974/) all across the nation on a continuing trend from the late 90s.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/november/crime-statistics-for-2013-released/crime-statistics-for-2013-released Therefore, the Zero Tolerance of Thugs attitude of today's police has worked.

The Sage of Main Street
12-31-2014, 02:13 PM
Sure, let me dumb it down for ya.

I never said the FBI's stats were unreliable. I pointed out the hypocrisy of our resident Libertarians who have ranted on end of the evils and corruption of the organization - and then cite their publishings as reliable.

Anytime I can help ya out, I'm here. The Libretardians aren't against maximum police protection as a permanent dogma; they just want to discredit any GUBMINT!!! employees who are often treated like heroes under what they feel is oppressive democratic rule. The Lizardtarians' own Utopia will rapidly turn into a Gestapo police state "to protect rugged individualists from mob rule."

Common Sense
12-31-2014, 02:15 PM
Therefore, the Zero Tolerance of Thugs attitude of today's police has worked.

There is no one reason for the drop in crime rates...

The Sage of Main Street
12-31-2014, 02:22 PM
http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ldah6rdp6ukvngoyqi1fcg.gif Therefore, effective crime control started when Clinton turned away from the feralphiles after losing the midterms.

The Sage of Main Street
12-31-2014, 02:28 PM
Big city crime stats are most certainly fudged at the behest of the mayor via commissioner to chief for political expedience. No one wants to run for re-election with the news reporting a soaring crime rate.
Police dont have to fudge numbers, what the numbers are dont effect them its the politicians. Although in some cases of elected Police CHiefs and Sheriffs again it becomes political to fudge the number so they can run on HEY LOOK how I lowered crime Citizens won't believe it unless they actually feel safer; fudged data won't change that.

Cthulhu
12-31-2014, 02:35 PM
Citizens won't believe it unless they actually feel safer; fudged data won't change that.
Those moving to an area with fudged data have a big surprise for them though.

Data being fudged has much to do with reelection and advertising for prospective home owners.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

Common
12-31-2014, 02:52 PM
I'm sure good policing helped bring it down @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659). I also know that this drug war makes billionaires out of $#@!s and puts gun violence on our streets.

In Russia they have drug laws that look harsh but they chose not to enforce them (other than 3rd tier selling) because the problem will just work itself out (yes, harsh) as people kill themselves. Then they don't have to worry about the cost of policing or jailing.

So when "crocodile" became an epidemic they did very little to stop it.

As a result it looks like their crime rates went down, and in a way they did.

Sorry I'm a little loopy now. I had surgery today.

Aloysha im against the drug war being carried out around the world. I think we should stop mexican drugs and columbian drugs and heroin and coke from entering out country from within, but there has to be drug enforcement and policing within the USA because it MURDERS innocent people and alot of them.
Like the meth house that blew up in fla the other day and took 35 other houses with it. Meth and crack are still alive and well and being produced. You cannot stop policing the illicit drug trade here. You cant give any criminal activity a free pass.

People do not realize how insidious illegal drugs are and how they destroy people and families ahd create so many auxilliary crimes from murder right on down. If its not in your face you cant understand the impact. The drug war must go on in the streets and neighborhoods.

Don
12-31-2014, 07:34 PM
The federal government has been involving themselves in state and local police affairs for years. There are a number of agencies that have "partnered" with local police. The FBI, ATF, DEA, and now homeland security among others. DEA has offices in most police departments and most drug investigations are done in partnership with local police and DEA. There is the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration. Government money to police departments has the same strings attached as all government money, if you want to keep getting the money you follow the governments procedures on how it is used. Because of the Feds war on drugs local police have turned from peace officers to urban warfare soldiers or paramilitary. Homeland security has made it even worse. There can be no police state unless the federal government controls the police and they have been incrementally getting that control slowly and surely over a period of many years. Watch how much more control they will get with the race issues and attacks on police officers. When they said Support Your Local Police And Keep Them Independent they weren't just whistling Dixie.