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MMC
06-13-2012, 06:46 PM
Concerning both books.....what does it state for the rebuilding of the Temple after the Alleged Return of Christ? What will take place with that next 1000yrs of Peace and those who will be part of the New Millenium? Who does it state will be placed in servitude and be the lowliest of the low?

What does the Torah state will take place with the rebuilding of the Temple? Afterwards?

Is there anything that will differ from the time Solomon began the construction in the creation that will be changed from the Original?

wingrider
06-13-2012, 07:31 PM
man you are asking for a lot to be covered in one post,, LOL

here is my take on this ..

the 3rd temple will be rebuilt during or just before the rise of the AntiChrist, it has to built before the end of the first 3 and a half year reign of Antichrist because at the 3 1/2 mark he stops the sacrifices and defiles the temple,,

I don't understand your question on upper and lower tiers,, Christ will rule the world and all saints that were raptured will rule with him, probably in capacities as governors, mayors, stuff like that, if there is a lower teir I think that those will be the people who survive the tribulation but I have no scripural refference for that opinion,,I can offer to put up some videos if you are really interested in finding out the christian viewpoint ( babtist) if you like,, just let me know

MMC
06-13-2012, 07:43 PM
I am talking about after the Anti Christ is destroyed. There is reference to who will build, who will serve and who will be left out in the cold so to speak, while Christ reigns. During the 1000yrs before the final destruction of the so called Satan where he will allegedly be destroyed forever.

Also isn't there questions as to how the Original temple was built and with who? Whom Solomon had under control in order to build it to the specifications required?

JohnAdams
06-13-2012, 08:10 PM
Concerning both books.....what does it state for the rebuilding of the Temple after the Alleged Return of Christ? What will take place with that next 1000yrs of Peace and those who will be part of the New Millenium? Who does it state will be placed in servitude and be the lowliest of the low?

What does the Torah state will take place with the rebuilding of the Temple? Afterwards?

Is there anything that will differ from the time Solomon began the construction in the creation that will be changed from the Original?

Um everyone will be the lowliest of the low. Given we are all sinners and wholly worthy of Gods wrath, not his love. But I digress....

The temple will be rebuilt before Christ establishes his new kingdom on Earth. In fact it's rebuilding is what will set off in part, the battle at meggido.

In answer to your question, in all seriousness during what is called the "millenial kingdom" where Christ will establish a thousand year reign on Earth. Earth will be paradise.

No one will be in servitude, save to God. And those who are are called angels. It was they whom God created for servitude, since you ask about that. Not mankind. Our purpose according to the scriptures both Torah and the Bible is wholly different.

We are created to be in fellowship with God.

Oh, and the Angels, according to the scriptures, will be and are also in servitude to Mankind, so long as Mankind is in the correct and proper relationship of fellowship with God through Christ or the Abrahamic Covenant which still applies to Israel.

For what it is worth, as a believing Christian, I've never found that servitude to God, or fellowship with him either, is all that difficult really.

All it takes is acceptance of what Christ did for mankind on the cross, repentance of one's sins, and asking God to forgive those sins. Or being a part of the Abrahamic Covenant, Thats it. Wow difficult now isn't it? ;)

pjohns
06-13-2012, 11:09 PM
Concerning both [the Torah and the Bible].....what does it state for the rebuilding of the Temple after the Alleged Return of Christ? What will take place with that next 1000yrs of Peace and those who will be part of the New Millenium? Who does it state will be placed in servitude and be the lowliest of the low?

For openers, it should probably be noted that the Torah (a.k.a. the Pentateuch) is a portion of the Bible--not a separate document.

Moreover, your question assumes a chiliast (i.e. a millenarian) interpretation of Scripture. And that, in turn, requires a futurist method of interpretation of the Book of Revelation (or the Apocalypse, in Catholic Bibles).

Note: There are four major methods of interpretation of the Book of Revelation: the futurist method (which holds that the entire book is concerned with the events of the End Times, or Eschaton; the historical method (which holds that the Book of Revelation is a chronicle of the church's history, from the time of John until the end of the world--well, except for the part about the seven churches of Asia--and was especially popular with the Reformers); the preterist (or contemporary historical) method (which holds that all the prophecies contained within the Book of Revelation--even the one about the Battle of Armageddon--were fulfilled, in their entirety, before the end of the second century AD); and the poetic method (which holds that no specific events are outlined there, but simply the certain triumph of Good over Evil).

It would be necessary to choose, first, among these methods of interpretation (each of which has many interpretations attaching to it), before your question might have any relevancy...

wingrider
06-13-2012, 11:15 PM
thanks PJohn.. I appreciate your stand.

wingrider
06-13-2012, 11:16 PM
and to you also John Adams.. well put.

MMC
06-13-2012, 11:19 PM
What does it say about the Temple in itself? Any descriptions of building and by whom? Are they any specific references to any one group of people? In connection of being within and without the temple?

wingrider
06-13-2012, 11:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Thtn3yFYqY&feature=relmfu



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEAQn5mj3ac&feature=relmfu



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toh0Ngib5i0&feature=relmfu



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq6XyK-OM4c&feature=relmfu

wingrider
06-13-2012, 11:37 PM
each video is about 14 minutes long and is in pretty good detail covering the book of revelation

MMC
06-13-2012, 11:45 PM
Thanks WR.....Course you know I am aware of the Differences with the Bibles. Althought I am not against the use of any other Holy Writings describing the event or what will become an event. Lets see what the differences are and whats said. I am sure with the KJV there is reference to a specifc group of people whom it seems God will not be pleased with even after the New Reign Begins.

wingrider
06-13-2012, 11:48 PM
not really.. MMC check out PJohns and JOhn adams posts they hit the nail pretty well on the head.. if you get a chance to listen to the vids I posted I think you may have a clearer understanding of what the endtimes and the reign of Christ will be about..

MMC
06-14-2012, 02:04 PM
Okay here I will make it simple.....they are called the Nicolatians. What does it say concerning this Specific Group of people?

wingrider
06-14-2012, 05:36 PM
Nicolatians are


1. The Sect:
A sect or party of evil influence in early Christianity, especially in the 7 churches of Asia. Their doctrine was similar to that of Balaam, "who taught Balak to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit fornication" (Rev 2:14,15). Their practices were strongly condemned by John, who praised the church in Ephesus for "hating their works" (Rev 2:6), and blamed the church in Pergamum for accepting in some measure their teaching (Rev 2:15). Except that reference is probably made to their influence in the church at Thyatira also, where their leader was "the woman Jezebel, who calleth herself a prophetess" (Rev 2:20; compare 2:14), no further direct information regarding them is given in Scripture.
2. References:
Reference to them is frequent in post-apostolic literature. According to Irenaeus (Adv. Haer., i.26,3; iii.10,7), followed by Hippolytus (Philos., vii.36), they were founded by Nicolaus, the proselyte of Antioch, who was one of the seven chosen to serve at the tables (Acts 6:5). Irenaeus, as also Clement of Alexandria (Strom., ii.20), Tertullian and others, unite in condemning their practices in terms similar to those of John; and reference is also made to their Gnostic tendencies. In explanation of the apparent incongruity of such an immoral sect being founded by one of "good report, full of the Spirit and of wisdom" (compare Acts 6:3), Simcox argues that their lapse may have been due to reaction from original principles of a too rigid asceticism. A theory, started in comparatively modern times, and based in part on the similarity of meaning of the Greek "Nikolaus," and the Hebrew "Balaam," puts forward the view that the two sects referred to under these names were in reality identical. Yet if this were so, it would not have been necessary for John to designate them separately.
3. Nicolaitan Controversy:
The problem underlying the Nicolaitan controversy, though so little direct mention is made of it in Scripture, was in reality most important, and concerned the whole relation of Christianity to paganism and its usages. The Nicolaitans disobeyed the command issued to the Gentilechurches, by the apostolic council held at Jerusalem in 49-50 AD, that they should refrain from the eating of "things sacrificed to idols" (Acts 15:29). Such a restriction, though seemingly hard, in that it prevented the Christian communities from joining in public festivals, and so brought upon them suspicion and dislike, was yet necessary to prevent a

return to a pagan laxity of morals. To this danger the Nicolaitans were themselves a glaring witness, and therefore John was justified in condemning them. In writing to the Corinthians, Paul gives warning against the same evil practices, basing his arguments on consideration for the weaker brethren (compare 1 Cor 8).

MMC
06-14-2012, 06:04 PM
Weren't they also the Pharisees? Leaders of the temples and or church?

wingrider
06-14-2012, 06:09 PM
Weren't they also the Pharisees? Leaders of the temples and or church?
NO. the pharisees were not christian they were the leaders of the sanhedrin and strictly followed the Mosaic law of the torah,,

MMC
06-14-2012, 06:16 PM
NO. the pharisees were not christian they were the leaders of the sanhedrin and strictly followed the Mosaic law of the torah,,

They are the leaven of the Pharisees.....

When our Lord Jesus Christ walked among men, He taught His disciples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, whom He denounced as hypocrites. With them He classed the chief priests and officials of the temple, together with the recognized teachers in the synagogues. He declared they had so corrupted the truth of God, which they were supposed to preach, with the doctrines and ordinances of men, that the truth, as originally given, was no longer with them. That which these blind leaders of the blind were giving forth as truth of God was making their converts twofold more the children of hell than they were before accepting the schism by these corrupt teachers.

http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/why-does-god-hate-practices-of-the-nicolaitans.html

wingrider
06-14-2012, 06:34 PM
TRue . but the leaven in the pharasees case was their hippocracy.. they condemed people for breaking the mosaic law but paid no attention to the sins in their own lives,,

MMC
06-14-2012, 06:41 PM
TRue . but the leaven in the pharasees case was their hippocracy.. they condemed people for breaking the mosaic law but paid no attention to the sins in their own lives,,


Right.....I never said they had to be Christians. I just said there was a specific group that was targeted. I know he tells them to repent but if they don't it says GOD hates them! So wouldn't this also inlcude all false prophets and so called false leaders of the church?

wingrider
06-14-2012, 06:44 PM
Right.....I never said they had to be Christians. I just said there was a specific group that was targeted. I know he tells them to repent but if they don't it says GOD hates them! So wouldn't this also inlcude all false prophets and so called false leaders of the church?
yep.. sure does.

wingrider
06-15-2012, 06:22 AM
Right.....I never said they had to be Christians. I just said there was a specific group that was targeted. I know he tells them to repent but if they don't it says GOD hates them! So wouldn't this also inlcude all false prophets and so called false leaders of the church?
oh and there were no christians at the time Jesus walked the earth and called out the Pharasees.. christians ween't named such until about 30 years later at Antioch.

wingrider
06-15-2012, 06:26 AM
Acts 11
25Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Before then, they were called disciples, and followers of "the way"

Acts: 24 (Paul talking)
12My accusers did not find me arguing with anyone at the temple, or stirring up a crowd in the synagogues or anywhere else in the city. 13And they cannot prove to you the charges they are now making against me. 14However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 15and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
approc 45 AD