The M-60

[Peter1469]

A great infantry weapon. (https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-m-60-lays-down-a-lot-of-lead-b47a37ae3198) The largest practical machine gun for the light infantry types.

You can lay waste with it. Today's version is much better.


Perhaps no other firearm is so closely associated with the Vietnam War — or pop culture spin-offs — as the M-60 general purpose machine gun.


Portrayals of the M-60 in the hands of American soldiers range from the sublime dignity expressed by the “Three Soldiers” statue in Washington D.C., to the over-the-top destruction of the fictional town of Hope, Wash., by Sylvester Stallone’s character John Rambo in the film First Blood.


Yet the M-60 is a weapon that has served American soldiers in many battles since 1957. Far from perfect, the early model of the M-60 had so many design flaws that soldiers jury-rigged fixes using everything from wire coat hangers to empty C-ration cans.

[Crepitus]

I've never actually fired one, I've heard both that they were great and that they had serious issues from different people.

Closest thing I've ever fired is an RPK. Piss poor quality control but after you work it over they're pretty decent. Heavy buggers though.

[Peter1469]

It is pretty heavy.

[Crepitus]

What does an m-60 wiegh? The RPKs are 10-12 lbs the big drawback is those damn drum mags, they more than double the weight.

[Don]

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5686525

[Peter1469]

What does an m-60 wiegh? The RPKs are 10-12 lbs the big drawback is those damn drum mags, they more than double the weight.

The M-60 is 23 pounds.

[zelmo1234]

This is an interesting look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaThH3gI3YM

[Crepitus]

The M-60 is 23 pounds.
Without ammo? Yikes!

[Peter1469]

It is heavy, but ergonomical. When you carry it you have a sling and it rests against your body without poking you. The smaller M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_light_machine_gun) is around 8 pounds lighter, but does not rest well against the body, so is actually more of a pain to hump.

[Crepitus]

It is heavy, but ergonomical. When you carry it you have a sling and it rests against your body without poking you. The smaller M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_light_machine_gun) is around 8 pounds lighter, but does not rest well against the body, so is actually more of a pain to hump.
Being as I was never really an infantryman I never really had to carry anything long distances. We always had vehicles

[Peter1469]

Being as I was never really an infantryman I never really had to carry anything long distances. We always had vehicles

I was light / airborne infantry. Walked everywhere. I always saw the vehicles as death traps.

[Crepitus]

I was light / airborne infantry. Walked everywhere. I always saw the vehicles as death traps.
All depends on what you're doing I guess. Since my career was in what are euphemistically called "private security" companies we didn't do field maneuvers or stuff like that.

[Peter1469]

All depends on what you're doing I guess.

Our mission was move to contact- push into enemy territory and keep moving until we made contact with the enemy.

[Crepitus]

Our mission was move to contact- push into enemy territory and keep moving until we made contact with the enemy.
We were usually either protecting an asset or a person, although there was the occasional contract where we were used as soldiers to take an objective. There is a world of difference between the two.

[Peter1469]

We were usually either protecting an asset or a person, although there was the occasional contract where we were used as soldiers to take an objective. There is a world of difference between the two.

Yes there is.

[SoonToBe2LT]

I was light / airborne infantry. Walked everywhere. I always saw the vehicles as death traps.

Army infantry: 20 kilometers? Throws on ruck and starts marching.
Air Force: 20 kilometers? Where's the truck?

[Crepitus]

Army infantry: 20 kilometers? Throws on ruck and starts marching.
Air Force: 20 kilometers? Where's the truck?
That goes for me as well.

[SoonToBe2LT]

That goes for me as well.
lol thanks for being honest

[Crepitus]

lol thanks for being honest
Oh Even at almost 50 I can run, I just don't want to! LOL

[The Sage of Main Street]

I've never actually fired one, I've heard both that they were great and that they had serious issues from different people.

Closest thing I've ever fired is an RPK. Piss poor quality control but after you work it over they're pretty decent. Heavy buggers though. Very dangerous to be a machinegunner. On Operation Lincoln, during 1967 in Vietnam, 40% of F/2/5 got killed but 100% of the machinegunners died. The one time I was a-gunner, because the regular a-gunner had chickened out, the gunner and I wouldn't have lasted more than a few minutes if the VC hadn't run away.

In Nov66, Frank Sills got shot in the face after taking over the gun. In Feb67, they sent him back even though everybody thought he had a million-dollar wound. A month later while out on patrol, a sniper zeroed in on him when Frank was only carrying the machinegun and killed him.

[Bob]

A great infantry weapon. (https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-m-60-lays-down-a-lot-of-lead-b47a37ae3198) The largest practical machine gun for the light infantry types.

You can lay waste with it. Today's version is much better.

I fired the M-60 machine gun one day at Ft. Ord CA on the beach ranges.

One of the Sgts kept firing into the dunes saying he saw an animal there.

I did not have enough experience with it to comment on how well it worked in combat areas.

[Bob]

The M-60 is 23 pounds.

WOW, I forgot if they are that heavy. Fired one at Ft Ord on a fixed target beach range.

Specs for the weapon say 23 kilos but 15 pounds. That is about the way I recall them. Belt fed was how the one I fired was set up.

[Cthulhu]

It is heavy, but ergonomical. When you carry it you have a sling and it rests against your body without poking you. The smaller M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_light_machine_gun) is around 8 pounds lighter, but does not rest well against the body, so is actually more of a pain to hump.
I would rather have a bow and arrow over the SAW.

Or the 240G.

I hate the SAW.

Sent from my evil, kitten eating cell phone.

[Bob]

Very dangerous to be a machinegunner. On Operation Lincoln, during 1967 in Vietnam, 40% of F/2/5 got killed but 100% of the machinegunners died. The one time I was a-gunner, because the regular a-gunner had chickened out, the gunner and I wouldn't have lasted more than a few minutes if the VC hadn't run away.

In Nov66, Frank Sills got shot in the face after taking over the gun. In Feb67, they sent him back even though everybody thought he had a million-dollar wound. A month later while out on patrol, a sniper zeroed in on him when Frank was only carrying the machinegun and killed him.

Hey, Frank was my good buddy in Germany.











Just kidding

[Crepitus]

Yes there is.
Personal protection was the best. Work your shift, usually inside in the air conditioning, and then real food and real beds when it's over! Rarely any real excitement.

[Crepitus]

WOW, I forgot if they are that heavy. Fired one at Ft Ord on a fixed target beach range.

Specs for the weapon say 23 kilos but 15 pounds. That is about the way I recall them. Belt fed was how the one I fired was set up.
15 lbs sounds much more reasonable.

[Peter1469]

WOW, I forgot if they are that heavy. Fired one at Ft Ord on a fixed target beach range.

Specs for the weapon say 23 kilos but 15 pounds. That is about the way I recall them. Belt fed was how the one I fired was set up.

23 pounds. (http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/m60/m60-study-guide.shtml)

23 kilos would be 50 pounds. (http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/conversions/common/kg-to-pounds-ounces.php)

I used this equipment. I know my stuff.

[Bob]

23 pounds. (http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/m60/m60-study-guide.shtml)

23 kilos would be 50 pounds. (http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/conversions/common/kg-to-pounds-ounces.php)

I used this equipment. I know my stuff.

Thanks for the correction. I read the Wikipedia wrong.

[Bob]

15 lbs sounds much more reasonable.

I am wrong, Peter is correct. I fired the machine gun in early 1962 and simply did not recall it being that heavy. I believe I fired it using the prone position.

It is 10.5 kilos and 23 pounds

[Peter1469]

I am wrong, Peter is correct. I fired the machine gun in early 1962 and simply did not recall it being that heavy. I believe I fired it using the prone position.

Ever hump one on a 25 miles road march? And then fire it? I love the M-60. They have a newer version now. I have not handled it.

[Bob]

Ever hump one on a 25 miles road march? And then fire it? I love the M-60. They have a newer version now. I have not handled it.

This was pre Vietnam. The reason we got to fire one, I believe ...??? is to acquaint us with the weapon. We did not get to fire it much. I fired the .30 cal machine gun more I believe.

I never saw one again even in Germany. When I got to Germany we had one company that was then called Combat and support. I believe they had the heavier infantry weapons. A few months after I got to Germany, we reorganized to 3 line companies and our HQ unit. In HQ we assumed what combat and support had.

At least that is my best recall. Given my only time spent was firing it from a fixed position, no, I never lugged one around.

[Crepitus]

I am wrong, Peter is correct. I fired the machine gun in early 1962 and simply did not recall it being that heavy. I believe I fired it using the prone position.

It is 10.5 kilos and 23 pounds
Wow, I don't care how ergonomic it is thats a lot.

[Peter1469]

Wow, I don't care how ergonomic it is thats a lot.

I didn't mind it. As I said above, I liked carrying it better than the SAW- and that was 8 pounds lighter. But I was light infantry. We always carried everything.

[Bob]

Wow, I don't care how ergonomic it is thats a lot.

The M-80 I fired fed ammo from a box. Imagine lugging that as well.

[Crepitus]

The M-80 I fired fed ammo from a box. Imagine lugging that as well.

I'm sorry Bob, I'm not actually familiar with the m80, unless that was a typo?

I was kinda assuming most of the ammo would have been distributed among the rest of the squad?

[Bob]

I'm sorry Bob, I'm not actually familiar with the m80, unless that was a typo?

I was kinda assuming most of the ammo would have been distributed among the rest of the squad?

Typo, M-60.
I was sort of joking. It was a problem given how the squads were organized at the time I was there at Ft. Ord.

We never carried the M-60 machine gun in training.

Then I had not seen a M-60 tank but in Germany we had plenty of them. I am at times almost posting about the tanks. so forgive my error.

[Crepitus]

Typo, M-60.
I was sort of joking. It was a problem given how the squads were organized at the time I was there at Ft. Ord.

We never carried the M-60 machine gun in training.

Then I had not seen a M-60 tank but in Germany we had plenty of them. I am at times almost posting about the tanks. so forgive my error.
Not a problem Sir, I make plenty of them myself.

[Crepitus]

I've never seen an m60 tank in the flesh either. In fact the only tanks I have ever been close to is some old T72s.

[Peter1469]

I've never seen an m60 tank in the flesh either. In fact the only tanks I have ever been close to is some old T72s.

Oh, I saw some T54/55 tanks up close during Desert Storm. We broke them. :smiley:

[Bob]

I've never seen an m60 tank in the flesh either. In fact the only tanks I have ever been close to is some old T72s.
I was by the M-1 tank when I visited the aircraft carrier Hornet based at Alameda, CA,.

Very impressive. I also looked over a then newer APC that looked very improved to me too.

[Crepitus]

Oh, I saw some T54/55 tanks up close during Desert Storm. We broke them. :smiley:
The T72s were on the same team. It was in October of 1990 when the Syrians finished off the last of the military government in Beirut. And yes, a number of them got broken too. Hell half of them broke on their own!

[Crepitus]

I was by the M-1 tank when I visited the aircraft carrier Hornet based at Alameda, CA,.

Very impressive. I also looked over a then newer APC that looked very improved to me too.
Cool, I'd love to see an Abrams up close. I'd also love to shoot the big cannon on top of the Bradley.

[Peter1469]

The T72s were on the same team. It was in October of 1990 when the Syrians finished off the last of the military government in Beirut. And yes, a number of them got broken too. Hell half of them broke on their own!

The Republican Guard had the T-72s. One of their divisions, the Hammurabi was coming to fuck us up and lucky for us an armor division behind us jumped ahead in time. We were airborne infantry with a French light armor division- we would have gotten eaten alive.

[Crepitus]

The Republican Guard had the T-72s. One of their divisions, the Hammurabi was coming to fuck us up and lucky for us an armor division behind us jumped ahead in time. We were airborne infantry with a French light armor division- we would have gotten eaten alive.
I can believe it. Intimidating mothers. According to all reports the Abrams kicked their butts pretty handily though.

[Peter1469]

I can believe it. Intimidating mothers. According to all reports the Abrams kicked their butts pretty handily though.

They did. One company of them decimated a brigade at the Battle of 73rd Eastings. Probably the last great tank battle we shall see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBG_G678Trg

[Crepitus]

They did. One company of them decimated a brigade at the Battle of 73rd Eastings. Probably the last great tank battle we shall see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBG_G678Trg
Impressive count. Thanks for posting.

[Bob]

Cool, I'd love to see an Abrams up close. I'd also love to shoot the big cannon on top of the Bradley.

If you are within easy driving of one of the Army forts that has those tanks, they hold open houses.

The M-60 tank is very inferior to the M-1 A-2 version. Those tank gunners are ultra deadly and at super long ranges and even at night. They hit targets miles off at night.

The M-60 never came close to that capability. We had the M-60s during the Vietnam era.

[Crepitus]

If you are within easy driving of one of the Army forts that has those tanks, they hold open houses.

The M-60 tank is very inferior to the M-1 A-2 version. Those tank gunners are ultra deadly and at super long ranges and even at night. They hit targets miles off at night.

The M-60 never came close to that capability. We had the M-60s during the Vietnam era.
Closest base (beside McConell AFB) is fort rielly. IDK if they have tanks there or not.

[Bob]

Closest base (beside McConell AFB) is fort rielly. IDK if they have tanks there or not.

Ft. Riley has armor

http://www.riley.army.mil/Units/1stInfantryDivision/1stArmoredBrigadeCombatTeam.aspx

[Crepitus]

Ft. Riley has armor

http://www.riley.army.mil/Units/1stInfantryDivision/1stArmoredBrigadeCombatTeam.aspx
Me and the kiddos will have to head up there someday soon then.

[The Sage of Main Street]

I didn't mind it. As I said above, I liked carrying it better than the SAW- and that was 8 pounds lighter. But I was light infantry. We always carried everything. Why don't they put the strongest in the infantry? With us, it was alphabetical order! I permanently weakened my legs because my chest and shoulders weren't strong enough to carry my gear. I had to bend over and let my thighs prop me up. The characteristics of military mismanagement in Vietnam were carried home and copied into the decadence of business, government, education, and culture.

[Peter1469]

Why don't they put the strongest in the infantry? With us, it was alphabetical order! I permanently weakened my legs because my chest and shoulders weren't strong enough to carry my gear. I had to bend over and let my thighs prop me up. The characteristics of military mismanagement in Vietnam were carried home and copied into the decadence of business, government, education, and culture.

It wasn't alphabetical for us.

[The Sage of Main Street]

I'm sorry Bob, I'm not actually familiar with the m80, unless that was a typo?

I was kinda assuming most of the ammo would have been distributed among the rest of the squad? On Operation Tuscaloosa, January 26, 1967, one of our squads, cut off from the platoon's machinegun, ran out of rifle ammo and had to unlink the bullets from the machinegun belts they carried and feed them into their M-14s' magazines.

[Crepitus]

On Operation Tuscaloosa, January 26, 1967, one of our squads, cut off from the platoon's machinegun, ran out of rifle ammo and had to unlink the bullets from the machinegun belts they carried and feed them into their M-14s' magazines.
Better than throwing rocks.

[Peter1469]

Or fixing bayonets.

[CreepyOldDude]

Very dangerous to be a machinegunner. On Operation Lincoln, during 1967 in Vietnam, 40% of F/2/5 got killed but 100% of the machinegunners died. The one time I was a-gunner, because the regular a-gunner had chickened out, the gunner and I wouldn't have lasted more than a few minutes if the VC hadn't run away.

In Nov66, Frank Sills got shot in the face after taking over the gun. In Feb67, they sent him back even though everybody thought he had a million-dollar wound. A month later while out on patrol, a sniper zeroed in on him when Frank was only carrying the machinegun and killed him.

The amazing thing was, there was always someone who wanted to man the damned thing. :huh:

After we lost three gunners to wounds in as many weeks, we stopped carrying the thing. We added an extra thumper, instead.

[Peter1469]

The amazing thing was, there was always someone who wanted to man the damned thing. :huh:

After we lost three gunners to wounds in as many weeks, we stopped carrying the thing. We added an extra thumper, instead.

Why put the 60 gunner on point?

[The Sage of Main Street]

Better than throwing rocks. Also better than regular 7.62 bullets because of the tracers.

[Crepitus]

Also better than regular 7.62 bullets because of the tracers.
Tracers are so cool! Only thing I've ever fired them out of is a GE minigun. Rate of fire was so high it looked like a laser even though they were only every fifth round.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Oh, I saw some T54/55 tanks up close during Desert Storm. We broke them. :smiley: BATTLE OF KURSK (USSR, 1943)

Germans: 940,900 men, 198,000 casualties. 3,253 tanks, 760 lost
Russians: 2,500,000 men, 863,000 casualties. 7,360 tanks, 6,064 lost

Despite the lopsided losses, this was actually a decisive Soviet victory and the turning point of World War II.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Tracers are so cool! Only thing I've ever fired them out of is a GE minigun. Rate of fire was so high it looked like a laser even though they were only every fifth round. The Air Force had this gatling-gun bomber nicknamed "Puff the Magic Dragon." It also looked like every round was a tracer.

[Crepitus]

The Air Force had this gatling-gun bomber nicknamed "Puff the Magic Dragon." It also looked like every round was a tracer.
AC 135? Seen one of those in action from a distance. NEVER want to see it from up close! That thing put out more ordinance in 30 seconds or so than my whole team was carrying. And all into what looked like the same spot.

[Peter1469]

AC 135? Seen one of those in action from a distance. NEVER want to see it from up close! That thing put out more ordinance in 30 seconds or so than my whole team was carrying. And all into what looked like the same spot.

Puff was the old AC-47. The newer AC-130 is much better. And it isn't just Gatling guns. It is full of 105MM howitzers.

One of those over Benghazi would have cleared the field of enemy with one pass.

[Peter1469]

Puff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73SciCMf9Rw

[Crepitus]

Puff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73SciCMf9Rw
Awesome! and thanks for the correction. Not as up on Air force stuff as I would like to be.

[CreepyOldDude]

Why put the 60 gunner on point?

We didn't. It was usually one of us riflemen. No, they were tail end Charlie in one instance, then the next two were in the rocking chair. Charlie's snipers hated the gunners. Or loved them, depending on how you look at it, I guess.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Puff was the old AC-47. The newer AC-130 is much better. And it isn't just Gatling guns. It is full of 105MM howitzers.

One of those over Benghazi would have cleared the field of enemy with one pass. But Hillary sat on the runway and wouldn't let it take off! How much KochBros dough do I get for giving the Tea Peepers a new meme?

[The Sage of Main Street]

Puff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73SciCMf9Rw It sounded like a huge ship's foghorn. At night, the tracers looked like a continuous stream of fire, not bullets.

[Cletus]

People either loved the Pig or hated it. I happened to fall in the camp that loved it. I attended the very first class of the M-60 leadership school at Fort Bragg. It was a great tool as long as you understood its strengths and limitations. You could engage area targets with it in excess of 1100 meters out. By using a spotter, you could even use it for indirect fire by putting a hill between you and the target area. If used on a tripod with a T&E mechanism, you could lay precise, accurate fire well beyond rifle range, and do it regardless of light or weather conditions.

[Peter1469]

People either loved the Pig or hated it. I happened to fall in the camp that loved it. I attended the very first class of the M-60 leadership school at Fort Bragg. It was a great tool as long as you understood its strengths and limitations. You could engage area targets with it in excess of 1100 meters out. By using a spotter, you could even use it for indirect fire by putting a hill between you and the target area. If used on a tripod with a T&E mechanism, you could lay precise, accurate fire well beyond rifle range, and do it regardless of light or weather conditions.

I liked it. I was better with the M249.