PDA

View Full Version : Green Arrow on the Military



Green Arrow
08-17-2015, 06:07 PM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.

Bob
08-17-2015, 06:12 PM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.

i sure would eat at those restaurants. LOL

Common Sense
08-17-2015, 06:14 PM
I think eating for free is a bit of a stretch.

I think in the US and Canada there is a lot of respect for members of the military.

Realistically not everyone who enters the military does it for altruistic reasons. It's a job.

That being said, anyone who has seen combat should not be sleeping on the streets. The government certainly has failed them.

I'd ask the conservatives and particularly the libertarians why charities have not filled that gap? It's my understanding that these social programs are unnecessary.

The VA does need restructuring. In my opinion they should just replace it with full medical coverage for life.

Green Arrow
08-17-2015, 06:15 PM
I think eating for free is a bit of a stretch.

I think in the US and Canada there is a lot of respect for members of the military.

Realistically not everyone who enters the military does it for altruistic reasons. It's a job.

That being said, anyone who has seen combat should not be sleeping on the streets. The government certainly has failed them.

I'd ask the conservatives and particularly the libertarians why charities have not filled that gap? It's my understanding that these social programs are unnecessary.

The VA does need restructuring. In my opinion they should just replace it with full medical coverage for life.

Bernie Sanders' plan of Medicare-for-all would largely solve that problem.

Cthulhu
08-17-2015, 06:22 PM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.
Not paying taxes ever again?

I'm cool with that.

Everything else?

No way.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Green Arrow
08-17-2015, 06:22 PM
Not paying taxes ever again?

I'm cool with that.

Everything else?

No way.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Why not?

Cthulhu
08-17-2015, 06:24 PM
I think eating for free is a bit of a stretch.

I think in the US and Canada there is a lot of respect for members of the military.

Realistically not everyone who enters the military does it for altruistic reasons. It's a job.

That being said, anyone who has seen combat should not be sleeping on the streets. The government certainly has failed them.

I'd ask the conservatives and particularly the libertarians why charities have not filled that gap? It's my understanding that these social programs are unnecessary.

The VA does need restructuring. In my opinion they should just replace it with full medical coverage for life.
Private sector charity, and government programs have similar flaws - they aren't perfect. And many vets refuse to seek help anyways, so there isn't much either can do if they don't arrive looking for help.

As for the insurance gig.

My idea-

2 years full coverage of active duty benefits upon discharge. And any service connected injuries or disability is covered for life.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Cthulhu
08-17-2015, 06:30 PM
Why not?
You will create a dependent class of people, of super citizens.

I am saying this as a guy who got hoses by the VA on some BS technical junk.

Plus, frankly there are a lot of wombats I personally know who don't rate such awesome bennies for their "sacrifices".

I could see it for combat vets who actually saw combat and got shot at or who sent rounds down range, or worked in an area where they were in legit danger all the time.

But some worthless POG who sit in his AC office doing admin garbage on a base?

Nah, screw him.

Plus I just don't think the air force did enough to earn it. Yeah I know, I'm a marine elitist prick. But keep in mind, under what I just proposed, I wouldn't get crap out of it.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Bob
08-17-2015, 07:22 PM
I think eating for free is a bit of a stretch.

I think in the US and Canada there is a lot of respect for members of the military.

Realistically not everyone who enters the military does it for altruistic reasons. It's a job.

That being said, anyone who has seen combat should not be sleeping on the streets. The government certainly has failed them.

I'd ask the conservatives and particularly the libertarians why charities have not filled that gap? It's my understanding that these social programs are unnecessary.

The VA does need restructuring. In my opinion they should just replace it with full medical coverage for life.

Dreaming does not turn it into fact. It is a pipe dream is all.

I know very well I have had my last meal care of the Army in 1964. And was not a very good meal then.

Howey
08-17-2015, 07:27 PM
Bernie Sanders' plan of Medicare-for-all would largely solve that problem.

As you know, I've been pushing Medicare for all, Medicare Part E, for years.

Howey
08-17-2015, 07:30 PM
FYI: With a few exceptions I'm happy with my care from the VA, my VA benefits and Social security are tax exempt, the VA home loan I have is great, I am exempt from property taxes, and most of all my fishing license is free!!!

Common
08-17-2015, 07:43 PM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.

Today a nam vet came stumbling into the VFW big brace on his right knee he was in lots of pain.
I said wtf why arent you at the clinic. He said I was there, they will not give me knee surgery for my torn miniscus until I try the brace for 60 days. I said did they give you an mri, he said yes. I got a hold of our service officer and told him try and help this guy. Minisicus doesnt HEAL.

From the stories Im getting the VA is not one bit better since Obama announced he was going to fix it.

Peter1469
08-17-2015, 07:48 PM
You are not going to turn a large bureaucracy around very fast if you can do it at all.

Bob
08-17-2015, 07:49 PM
FYI: With a few exceptions I'm happy with my care from the VA, my VA benefits and Social security are tax exempt, the VA home loan I have is great, I am exempt from property taxes, and most of all my fishing license is free!!!

Your VA loan is private. VA merely guarantees the loan to the private lender. So long as you pay on time, they won't foreclose on you when VA would then step in to pay off the loan and put the house up for sale.
VA has nothing to do with state taxes. You are lucky. We have a VA exemption in CA but the benefit is small.

I never got hospital benefits but to get to the hospital takes over an hour.

Green Arrow
08-17-2015, 10:02 PM
Bob, do you have anything to say about my plan?

Bob
08-17-2015, 10:09 PM
@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013), do you have anything to say about my plan?

I did. I will be very happy to eat at the restaurants.

Dr. Who
08-17-2015, 10:16 PM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.
I imagine that would have to have a limit. Not every vet has the same issues. Some would not have even seen combat and of those who did, circumstances are not identical. Certainly they should have lifetime medical care without cost and they should have a reasonable pension as well as further benefits based on their physical and mental status at the time of discharge. On the other hand, do you really want to turn all vets into permanent dependents of the state?

southwest88
08-17-2015, 10:36 PM
...

I could see it for combat vets who actually saw combat and got shot at or who sent rounds down range, or worked in an area where they were in legit danger all the time.

But some worthless POG who sit in his AC office doing admin garbage on a base?

...


Yah, that's my impression too. That the homeless vets on the street are the frontline troops who saw combat, & the tech people who armed bombs, fueled, pulled engines, avionics, cannon - in harsh conditions, sometimes had to drop their wrench & grab their personal weapon. Yes, we should target reentry to civilian life counseling, mental health screenings & care, permanent health & mental care if the injury condition is service-related; all to the segment of soldiers, marines, navy, air force, national guard, coast guard @ most risk in combat (I want to include exposure to environmental hazards - toluenes & similar, depleted U dust, exotic chemicals, downwind from destruction of chem weapons or other suspected hazardous materials).

As we outsourced a lot of services in Iraq & Afghanistan, we might look @ extended reentry & health & mental services benefits to those civilians who got caught in the crossfire, if their companies didn't take care of them. But first we should take care of our people who rallied to the flag.

If need be, we may need to look @ group housing for vets who can't adjust to civilian life, or whose injuries preclude their functioning in civilian life. That would help keep vets in need of services together, & allow routine visits from social workers, therapists, physical therapists. If there are meds, those could be administered under better control than if the patient is living somewhere out on the streets. Mostly it's physical security & a roof over their heads - we owe them a lot more, but that's a start. We can always ramp up services, if there's a need. (I suspect we're going to find lots of need initially. With secure housing, we can hope to cut into backlogs & take care of our people.)

Cletus
08-17-2015, 10:43 PM
Minisicus doesnt HEAL.

Not exactly true. It depends on the nature of the injury. It is is a traumatic tear, there is a chance it will heal without surgery. It is not a great chance, but in the cases where it does, it is generally a tear that resulted as a result of trauma in which the ACL is also torn. If it is degenerative, it is not likely to heal without surgery.

The likely reason the Nam Vet was told to give the brace a chance is that age has a huge impact on the odds of recovery after Miniscus surgery. As a general rule, Miniscus surgery for people in the 60s and older is contraindicated.

The Xl
08-17-2015, 11:19 PM
The military should be taken care of for the trauma they received in warfare, but hell no at the rest. They're no more important than the rest of us, the notion of a free lunch for them at the expense of the rest of us is utterly ludicrous.

maineman
08-17-2015, 11:26 PM
I think that any father or mother, husband or wife, or son or daughter of any US service member who is killed in the line of duty should be deemed to have "paid enough" and should be exempt from all state and federal income taxes for their lifetimes.

Cletus
08-17-2015, 11:26 PM
The military should be taken care of for the trauma they received in warfare, but hell no at the rest. They're no more important than the rest of us, the notion of a free lunch for them at the expense of the rest of us is utterly ludicrous.

I am one of "them" and I agree completely.

GrassrootsConservative
08-18-2015, 08:45 AM
We need to end all wars until our government can learn to properly care for the veterans that fight in them.

And it goes all the way back to Bush and Clinton. They both spread more government and distributed taxes where they don't belong instead of putting that money towards those that most deserve and need it.

OGIS
08-19-2015, 01:54 AM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.

Sounds good to me, but we should not let them vote while they are serving.

Would you like to know more?

Peter1469
08-19-2015, 01:56 AM
Sounds good to me, but we should not let them vote while they are serving.

Would you like to know more?

Why?

OGIS
08-19-2015, 01:56 AM
We need to stop building $20 billion dollar floating targets and use some of that money for existing vets and social infrastructure.

OGIS
08-19-2015, 01:57 AM
Why?

Guess you didn't get the joke. My bad.

Peter1469
08-19-2015, 01:58 AM
We need to stop building $20 billion dollar floating targets and use some of that money for existing vets and social infrastructure.

Not allowing people in the military to vote while they are serving will help with that?

From my experience, most military members are not voting to keep the US in war and to spend massive money on defense.

Peter1469
08-19-2015, 01:58 AM
Guess you didn't get the joke. My bad.

I thought that I saw a reference to Starship Troopers.

OGIS
08-19-2015, 02:03 AM
I imagine that would have to have a limit. Not every vet has the same issues. Some would not have even seen combat and of those who did, circumstances are not identical. Certainly they should have lifetime medical care without cost and they should have a reasonable pension as well as further benefits based on their physical and mental status at the time of discharge. On the other hand, do you really want to turn all vets into permanent dependents of the state?

You say that like it is a bad thing. Millions of homeowners who have interest deductions would disagree with you. Why yes, special interest group tax deductions are a form of dependency.

OGIS
08-19-2015, 02:03 AM
I thought that I saw a reference to Starship Troopers.

Yep, It was a reach.

OGIS
08-19-2015, 02:05 AM
Not allowing people in the military to vote while they are serving will help with that?

From my experience, most military members are not voting to keep the US in war and to spend massive money on defense.

Don't give the bad joke more legs.

Dr. Who
08-19-2015, 04:08 PM
You say that like it is a bad thing. Millions of homeowners who have interest deductions would disagree with you. Why yes, special interest group tax deductions are a form of dependency.
I understand what you are saying. I don't have any qualms supporting vets indefinitely if they cannot work but I'm not sure that they or anyone else would want to have able bodied vets supported for for life. I think a much better use of the money would be to ensure that they have somewhere to live when they get out of the service for a least a year (or until they get a job) and any kind of educational aid and job counselling that they need to restart their lives.

Howey
08-19-2015, 04:59 PM
Not allowing people in the military to vote while they are serving will help with that?

From my experience, most military members are not voting to keep the US in war and to spend massive money on defense.

In fact, they do. By casting a ballot for the candidate of their choice.

Peter1469
08-19-2015, 05:27 PM
In fact, they do. By casting a ballot for the candidate of their choice.

I suggest that you read my comment (in context), understand it, and then comment on it.

What you wrote above is non-responsive and off topic.

Cthulhu
08-20-2015, 01:07 AM
I suggest that you read my comment (in context), understand it, and then comment on it.

What you wrote above is non-responsive and off topic.
As I examine his response, he is actually quite correct even if he doesn't realize it.

Unless the servicemen start voting Libertarian en masse.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

OGIS
08-21-2015, 02:00 AM
I understand what you are saying. I don't have any qualms supporting vets indefinitely if they cannot work but I'm not sure that they or anyone else would want to have able bodied vets supported for for life. I think a much better use of the money would be to ensure that they have somewhere to live when they get out of the service for a least a year (or until they get a job) and any kind of educational aid and job counselling that they need to restart their lives.

Well, not having vets work dovetails with the fact that there are not - and won't be - enough jobs to go around. Systemic unemployment mandated by technological progress. Might as well start somewhere.

We need to scrap ALL welfare programs and replace them with a Guaranteed Income plan, eventually morphing into a Heritage Payment plan where everyone gets an equal share.

Dr. Who
08-21-2015, 05:12 PM
Well, not having vets work dovetails with the fact that there are not - and won't be - enough jobs to go around. Systemic unemployment mandated by technological progress. Might as well start somewhere.

We need to scrap ALL welfare programs and replace them with a Guaranteed Income plan, eventually morphing into a Heritage Payment plan where everyone gets an equal share.
I expect that is what will ultimately happen - I have said as much in the past. That or we will have a planet wide meltdown that will reduce the population by 2/3s.

Howey
08-21-2015, 05:31 PM
I suggest that you read my comment (in context), understand it, and then comment on it.
.

I suggest you do the same. What I said, since you're not capable of understanding, is that our career m8litary vote for the neoconservative and warmongers. Hence, their vote is one to keep us at war.

Howey
08-21-2015, 05:36 PM
Well, not having vets work dovetails with the fact that there are not - and won't be - enough jobs to go around. Systemic unemployment mandated by technological progress. Might as well start somewhere.

We need to scrap ALL welfare programs and replace them with a Guaranteed Income plan, eventually morphing into a Heritage Payment plan where everyone gets an equal share.

It's not a technological revolution per se. That was the Industrial Revolution. What we have now is a digital revolution. With proper funding of training for our youth, the jobs will be there.

Darmosiel
08-21-2015, 06:11 PM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.

They do get free healthcare...

But that's going a bit far to expect to give them all of that for life.

What do you think they are...politicians?

Chloe
08-21-2015, 06:46 PM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.

I would like to agree with you because I like you as a person, but I can think of so many other people, groups, things, and ideas to give that sort of preferential treatment towards besides the military and that would be more deserving. I'm sorry. I do think any active military people that have seen real combat should be able to receive free counseling and additional help getting acclimated back to normal life but that's about it.

Private Pickle
08-21-2015, 06:48 PM
I would like to agree with you because I like you as a person, but I can think of so many other people, groups, things, and ideas to give that sort of preferential treatment towards besides the military and that would be more deserving. I'm sorry. I do think any active military people that have seen real combat should be able to receive free counseling and additional help getting acclimated back to normal life but that's about it.

This is why the VA is in ruins.

southwest88
08-21-2015, 06:58 PM
Would you like to know more?


Guess you didn't get the joke. My bad.

Yah, the problem with that line - it's only in the first Starship Troopers movie, as I recall (& I don't think I saw all of the follow-on movies). The same spirit is kinda in the novel. But not everybody liked the movie, or stayed with it to the end. Those of us who read the novel & saw the movie's problem - they spent all the SFX budget on the bugs & ships, & didn't have enough left to actually show MI combat suits - well, no amount of snark can make up the difference. Subsequent entries in the series - especially the animated entries - got the combat suits right (& limited the production values - so they cut the SFX budget & could afford to do the suits, I assume).

rembrant
08-30-2015, 05:44 PM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.Maybe you don't know just how many veterans there are. No taxes? Free housing and food? That would really add up. I want more for Vets.. but Realistically.... you are dreaming. I'd be happy to gett the VA fixed.. and that's happening.

valley ranch
01-13-2016, 01:04 PM
We have a beloved friend, now 98. Arnold saw combat in Europe. He lives in Carson City and drives to Reno, NV to the VA, where he is put off, not given proper attention and told to come back, make another appointment. He is able to go to a private doctor, but should not have to.



Yes, they, our veterans, should get health care and much more.

Crepitus
01-13-2016, 01:19 PM
We have a beloved friend, now 98. Arnold saw combat in Europe. He lives in Carson City and drives to Reno, NV to the VA, where he is put off, not given proper attention and told to come back, make another appointment. He is able to go to a private doctor, but should not have to.



Yes, they, our veterans, should get health care and much more.
Yes, good healthcare for life IMHO. None of them should be homeless either.

Cletus
01-13-2016, 01:20 PM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.

You're kidding, right?

MisterVeritis
01-13-2016, 04:23 PM
Well, not having vets work dovetails with the fact that there are not - and won't be - enough jobs to go around. Systemic unemployment mandated by technological progress. Might as well start somewhere.

We need to scrap ALL welfare programs and replace them with a Guaranteed Income plan, eventually morphing into a Heritage Payment plan where everyone gets an equal share.
Marxists pop out of the woodwork at a moment's notice. Nice move.

MisterVeritis
01-13-2016, 04:25 PM
They do get free healthcare...

But that's going a bit far to expect to give them all of that for life.

What do you think they are...politicians?
It is not quite free. Every year the cost goes up along with the copays. To add insult to injury by age 65 we all get converted to Medicare.

I would never advise any young man or woman to join today's military.

Standing Wolf
01-13-2016, 04:27 PM
It is not quite free. Every year the cost goes up along with the copays. To add insult to injury by age 65 we all get converted to Medicare.

I would never advise any young man or woman to join today's military.

Sometimes it works out exceptionally well.

Green Arrow
01-13-2016, 05:13 PM
You're kidding, right?

Not in the slightest.

iustitia
01-13-2016, 05:32 PM
I disagree entirely with providing preferential treatment to the military for anything. I do not accept the notion that they defend our freedom, which is demonstrably false. People choose to wear uniforms to fight unjust wars paid for by the taxpayers. Taypayers, businesses included, should not be forced to reward them for this. The only thing veterans should receive is psychological/medical care or whatever education/money was promised to them in their contracts.

This country has a raging hard-on for veterans and it's completely unjustified. As someone who's worn a uniform I disagree with treating "the troops" as anything more than DoD employees. We shouldn't deify the military any more than cops, judges or politicians. They're just government employees.

Firemen, on the other hand, I could get behind treating as heroes. Because they kind of are. They actually protect people.

Green Arrow
01-13-2016, 05:50 PM
Firemen, on the other hand, I could get behind treating as heroes. Because they kind of are. They actually protect people.

Anything I said in the OP can be applied to firemen too, honestly.

iustitia
01-13-2016, 06:14 PM
Our society collectively has an incentive to pay men to put out fires here at home. It doesn't have an incentive to burn down the homes of foreigners.

kilgram
01-13-2016, 06:19 PM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.
Why the military should get those privileges and not the rest of the people?

Why only the military and not other groups like police, bombers that also they do a great service to community and protect the people?

And yes, I've said it correctly, privileges.

Cletus
01-13-2016, 06:39 PM
Not in the slightest.

Unfortunate.

maineman
01-13-2016, 07:05 PM
Unfortunate.

how so? Unfortunate in that he does not gain your approval? Why would anyone on the planet even marginally devalue themselves or their opinions based upon your opinion of them or their opinions?

You clearly hold the misguided opinion that anyone give a flying fuck about yours.

Green Arrow
01-13-2016, 09:04 PM
Unfortunate.

I'd ask you to elaborate but so far, that doesn't seem to be something you're interested in.

Peter1469
01-13-2016, 09:56 PM
I would go so far as to suggest that if you don't serve in the military, you should not be a citizen and have no vote.

The Xl
01-13-2016, 10:11 PM
I would go so far as to suggest that if you don't serve in the military, you should not be a citizen and have no vote.
Well, that's completely ridiculous. You guys aren't above everyone else, if you truly feel that way, you should probably get over yourself. Step off that pedestal.

Green Arrow
01-13-2016, 10:15 PM
I would go so far as to suggest that if you don't serve in the military, you should not be a citizen and have no vote.

I wouldn't go that far. That is completely antithetical to freedom.

MisterVeritis
01-13-2016, 10:16 PM
I would go so far as to suggest that if you don't serve in the military, you should not be a citizen and have no vote.
That was the Athenian way. Only one who had served could be a citizen. We no longer have massed armies. I propose that one cannot have the privileges of a citizen unless one has graduated from an American high school or completed an equivalent test.

MisterVeritis
01-13-2016, 10:17 PM
I wouldn't go that far. That is completely antithetical to freedom.
It is a different vision of what citizenship requires. When the city-state required that all be infantry such a requirement made perfect sense.

Common
01-13-2016, 10:18 PM
I wouldn't go that far. That is completely antithetical to freedom.

At one time I would have agreed with peter but not now. When they had the draft and the deferrments to assure the rich never got drafted I would have said stick them all in the military.

Now its volunteer so anyone in the military has asked to be in it. Totally different situation.

The Xl
01-13-2016, 10:35 PM
I don't want rule or preferable treatment to bankers, politicians, mailmen, fast food workers, etc. The military isn't any different, and I'm not sure what legal or moral authority would justify giving them any kind of preferential treatment anyway.

Dr. Who
01-13-2016, 10:41 PM
I would go so far as to suggest that if you don't serve in the military, you should not be a citizen and have no vote.
If you believe that, then you would support mandatory military service for every able-bodied individual, male or female, except I believe that you stated previously that you would not want to serve with soldiers that were drafted. However suggesting that your basic right to vote s/b contingent on military service is pretty much extortion and the draft by definition.

Cthulhu
01-13-2016, 10:56 PM
If you believe that, then you would support mandatory military service for every able-bodied individual, male or female, except I believe that you stated previously that you would not want to serve with soldiers that were drafted. However suggesting that your basic right to vote s/b contingent on military service is pretty much extortion and the draft by definition.
Why on earth would someone want to make it mandated?

Yuck.

Let's be honest here. What would happen is pretty much what we have now - a minority who actively takes part in the body politic.

What was voter turn out? Like a third the last election? So it becomes a little smaller under this model.

And it around be filled with people who have a wider understanding of things and who have actually bled and sweat for something.

I can see the wisdom of a vet only voting base. That isn't too say it's flawless either. It has obvious flaws.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

del
01-13-2016, 10:58 PM
I would go so far as to suggest that if you don't serve in the military, you should not be a citizen and have no vote.

i would go so far as to suggest that you're right out of your mind

carry on

Dr. Who
01-13-2016, 11:27 PM
Why on earth would someone want to make it mandated?

Yuck.

Let's be honest here. What would happen is pretty much what we have now - a minority who actively takes part in the body politic.

What was voter turn out? Like a third the last election? So it becomes a little smaller under this model.

And it around be filled with people who have a wider understanding of things and who have actually bled and sweat for something.

I can see the wisdom of a vet only voting base. That isn't too say it's flawless either. It has obvious flaws.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.
Hmmm. The military does not just attract patriots. It also attracts people without discernable skills or education looking for some kind of guaranteed employment. Let's not kid ourselves. The minimum AFTQ score acceptable for the Army and Marines is 31 and 32, respectively and they receive the bulk of military enlistments. (The AFTQ min is higher for other branches of the military). An AFTQ score of 50 is the equivalent of an IQ of 100, thus those accepted at 31 and 32 are individuals with IQs in the low 90's. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/MG265/images/webG1471.pdf

That would mean that a significant portion of the voter base would be comprised of individuals with a lower than average intelligence quotient, no post-secondary education and would also exclude the preponderance of the female population. Furthermore, it would exclude most Doctors, Engineers, Nuclear Physicists, Biologists or pretty much most of the educated public.

BleedingHeadKen
01-13-2016, 11:38 PM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.

Nothing stops you from adopting a veteran now and covering all his expenses and taxes. Or are you suggesting that you want more socialism?

iustitia
01-13-2016, 11:44 PM
Nothing stops you from adopting a veteran now and covering all his expenses and taxes. Or are you suggesting that you want more socialism?
Green Arrow is a socialist...

Green Arrow
01-13-2016, 11:55 PM
Nothing stops you from adopting a veteran now and covering all his expenses and taxes. Or are you suggesting that you want more socialism?

Actually, the fact that I barely make enough money to cover my own bills is stopping me from being able to pay for someone else's bills, but if I had the money I would absolutely "adopt a vet."

Also, I'd settle for *some* socialism before we start talking about *more* socialism.

Hal Jordan
01-14-2016, 12:09 AM
I would go so far as to suggest that if you don't serve in the military, you should not be a citizen and have no vote.

What about those for whom it is impossible to serve? Are we opening up the military to those who are physically unable to serve? There are many reasons why your proposal would not be a good idea.

Cthulhu
01-14-2016, 01:39 AM
What about those for whom it is impossible to serve? Are we opening up the military to those who are physically unable to serve? There are many reasons why your proposal would not be a good idea.
Life is not an equal opportunity employer.

It is a cruel truth of this world.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

kilgram
01-14-2016, 01:42 AM
I would go so far as to suggest that if you don't serve in the military, you should not be a citizen and have no vote.
Starship troopers society :)

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

Cthulhu
01-14-2016, 01:42 AM
Hmmm. The military does not just attract patriots. It also attracts people without discernable skills or education looking for some kind of guaranteed employment. Let's not kid ourselves. The minimum AFTQ score acceptable for the Army and Marines is 31 and 32, respectively and they receive the bulk of military enlistments. (The AFTQ min is higher for other branches of the military). An AFTQ score of 50 is the equivalent of an IQ of 100, thus those accepted at 31 and 32 are individuals with IQs in the low 90's. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/MG265/images/webG1471.pdf

That would mean that a significant portion of the voter base would be comprised of individuals with a lower than average intelligence quotient, no post-secondary education and would also exclude the preponderance of the female population. Furthermore, it would exclude most Doctors, Engineers, Nuclear Physicists, Biologists or pretty much most of the educated public.
Last I checked, the average mean score was 62 for marines.

So by the rubric you present that makes them slightly above 100 IQ.

And if you haven't noticed, all of these super educated types seem to have created disastrous policies which only the lower IQ seem to be able to logically solve.

Bottom line, IQ is not the best measure of intellect, not does education make one a good statesman.

And for the rest - so what?

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

kilgram
01-14-2016, 01:44 AM
Green Arrow is a socialist...
A socialist that want more classes... I would not call it a socialist.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

iustitia
01-14-2016, 01:56 AM
A socialist that want more classes... I would not call it a socialist.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

A socialist need not be a marxist.

kilgram
01-14-2016, 02:24 AM
A socialist need not be a marxist.

I am not marxist, neither.

Creating classes is not a goal of a socialist. Creating privileges is not a goal for a socialist. This post would create a privileged class, the military. That is closer to feudalism than socialism.

Common
01-14-2016, 06:44 AM
Last I checked, the average mean score was 62 for marines.

So by the rubric you present that makes them slightly above 100 IQ.

And if you haven't noticed, all of these super educated types seem to have created disastrous policies which only the lower IQ seem to be able to logically solve.

Bottom line, IQ is not the best measure of intellect, not does education make one a good statesman.

And for the rest - so what?

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

IQ is no indication of bravery or cowardice, or phsyical ability. A good example is Stephen Hawking.

Common
01-14-2016, 06:55 AM
What other profession is hired with the condition they may give their all to defend others when "ordered" Whether you agree with the order has nothing to do with our troops.

Combat troops incur an emotional toll others cant understand. Some it effects mentally and emotionally their entire lives. How many homeless vets do you believe are completely emotionally and mentally stable.

Wounded combat veterans incur physical wounds that change their entire lives but no one emphasizes the emotional and mental toll of that injury that goes along with it and may be far more insidious.

Combat troops whether drafted or volunteer, deserve the dignity and the best medical care there is provided by those that demanded and ordered them to fight their war.

Combat troops that gave their all deseve that those that ordered them to war assure their families have the quality of life especially their children that they would have.

Thats the responsibility of the rest of us too combat troops injured and more.

This is just my humble opinion.

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 08:10 AM
If you believe that, then you would support mandatory military service for every able-bodied individual, male or female, except I believe that you stated previously that you would not want to serve with soldiers that were drafted. However suggesting that your basic right to vote s/b contingent on military service is pretty much extortion and the draft by definition.

I don't support mandatory service. I am against it. Their is virtue in volunteering for the military.

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 08:11 AM
What about those for whom it is impossible to serve? Are we opening up the military to those who are physically unable to serve? There are many reasons why your proposal would not be a good idea.

Who says everyone needs to vote?

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 08:13 AM
We need to narrow the vote, not expand it.

I think military service could be the standard.

Standing Wolf
01-14-2016, 08:30 AM
We need to narrow the vote, not expand it.

I think military service could be the standard.

It sounds as though you might have an unrealistically exalted view of Service personnel generally. I say that as someone who spent more than two decades on active duty, with a son preparing to return to the Army later this year when he finishes medical school. I found the Navy to be a fairly representative cross-section of society in terms of intelligence and good character and the opposites of those qualities. There are certainly some exceptional individuals in the ranks, but I've known plenty of exceptional folks who never served, too.

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 08:36 AM
It sounds as though you might have an unrealistically exalted view of Service personnel generally. I say that as someone who spent more than two decades on active duty, with a son preparing to return to the Army later this year when he finishes medical school. I found the Navy to be a fairly representative cross-section of society in terms of intelligence and good character and the opposites of those qualities. There are certainly some exceptional individuals in the ranks, but I've known plenty of exceptional folks who never served, too.


25 years between Active, reserves, and national guard here. No system created by man is perfect. But like I said of soldiers I put in jail as an Army prosecutor, "at least they served."

kilgram
01-14-2016, 08:47 AM
We need to narrow the vote, not expand it.

I think military service could be the standard.
I love when "liberals" show their true face.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

Green Arrow
01-14-2016, 08:51 AM
We need to narrow the vote, not expand it.

I think military service could be the standard.

All people have the right to have a say in our government, and that means voting.

Common
01-14-2016, 09:12 AM
All people have the right to have a say in our government, and that means voting.

Very true but its their choice if they vote or not

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 10:14 AM
I love when "liberals" show their true face.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

Classical liberal, thank you very much.

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 10:15 AM
All people have the right to have a say in our government, and that means voting.

Not under the suggestion that I made above. Citizenship would be limited.

kilgram
01-14-2016, 10:22 AM
Not under the suggestion that I made above. Citizenship would be limited.
As I said: true face and Starship troopers society. None of both are good things.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 10:23 AM
As I said: true face and Starship troopers society. None of both are good things.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

Great book.

kilgram
01-14-2016, 10:24 AM
Great book.
And a great critic to what you're asking.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 10:25 AM
And a great critic to what you're asking.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

The movie was fine. It was entertaining. Not deep like the book.

Truth Detector
01-14-2016, 10:28 AM
In my opinion, we need to completely reevaluate the way we treat the military in this nation. They put everything they have on the line to serve and protect this nation, and what do we do in return? The VA is in shambles. Our mental health care is laughable. 12% of the adult homeless population are veterans, which amounts to 50,000 veterans. Hell, as the 2009 Fort Hood attack and last month's attack in Chattanooga showed, we can't even protect our troops here at home. That is far from taking care of our veterans.

In my humble opinion, we should exempt all veterans and active duty military from taxes. We should provide them free healthcare and housing. They should be able to walk into any grocery store and restaurant, show their military ID, and eat/shop free. We should reform the VA and reform our lacking mental health care system.

Me personally, I'd happily pay a little more in taxes to pay for that.

I am all for the idea of making them tax exempt. But I think a vast majority would not want a handout by using their ID. The reason they serve goes against the notion they need charity.

The VA is a disaster because that is what happens when Government runs things. As for the homeless situation, that too will remain unsolved because much of that is self inflicted but I would also support a Napoleonic solution that provides hostels/housing for vets who need it located on all posts and bases throughout the US.

None of us would have to pay more taxes; they can just take that funding out of all the mandatory welfare funding taxpayers are forced to pay.

It's nice to see this as an issue. Too often these men and women are taken for granted.

maineman
01-14-2016, 10:30 AM
I have long suggested that the spouses children and parents of those servicemen killed in the line of duty should be considered to have paid enough and not, therefore have to pay further taxes.

Ethereal
01-14-2016, 10:40 AM
Personally, I think veterans get plenty of assistance. It's not always perfect, but it's there if they need it.

To be honest, I think this country is sometimes too deferential and accommodative towards veterans. They should be treated the same as any one else.

And doing your duty is the bare minimum in a republic, so it shouldn't be praised or celebrated. That's like praising someone for following the law or helping an old lady cross the street. That is just expected of any decent person.

kilgram
01-14-2016, 01:49 PM
This thread is curious. The least liberal is the one who takes the most liberal position in this topic and defends less intrusion of the government and less privileges and more equality under the law.

Or in other words, the most coherent.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 02:50 PM
In America and much of Europe liberals are the statists.


This thread is curious. The least liberal is the one who takes the most liberal position in this topic and defends less intrusion of the government and less privileges and more equality under the law.

Or in other words, the most coherent.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

kilgram
01-14-2016, 03:15 PM
In America and much of Europe liberals are the statists.
Only in USA.

I can adapt the message if it suits better for you. And the least "libertarian" is the one who takes the most "libertarian" position.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

The Xl
01-14-2016, 03:17 PM
We need to narrow the vote, not expand it.

I think military service could be the standard.

The state has no right to oversee or impose it's will on anyone not given a voice in the process.

And nothing makes you military types special or the standard bearer for competence in any way. You're not that special. Maybe individuals in the military are, but that goes for certain individuals in any line of work.

iustitia
01-14-2016, 03:36 PM
Most people I've served with didn't know dick about the very Constitution they swore an oath to uphold. I wouldn't want them as standard-bearers of citizenship. They in no way epitomize virtue more than anyone else.

kilgram
01-14-2016, 04:06 PM
The state has no right to oversee or impose it's will on anyone not given a voice in the process.

And nothing makes you military types special or the standard bearer for competence in any way. You're not that special. Maybe individuals in the military are, but that goes for certain individuals in any line of work.
Agreed. And also what is defended by many is the creation of a more privileged class. As we would say in Spanish:

- Or all us fuck or the bitch to the river.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

William
01-14-2016, 05:08 PM
This is an interesting thread, and thanks Green Arrow for making it. :smiley:

I'm not totally sure, but I think you have to serve in an operational area to get benefits as an Australian ex-serviceman. I don't think just being a cook, or in administration counts. Is that the same in the USA?

My uncle in the RAF spent some time in the USA and he is gobsmacked at the deference the military gets over there. He said he saw people buy total strangers a drink just cos they were in uniform - nobody does that in the UK or in Australia. Lol, I don't know if he was just jealous, but he said that was a bit unhealthy cos it puts the military on a pedestal above other Americans. :D

He said I should find 'The 14 Defining Points of Fascism' on the net and read it. So I did.


4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.


I think all our societies should be very careful - specially about things like too much nationalism, protecting corporate power and suppressing labour, obsessing over crime and punishment, and obsessing over national security at the expense of justice. Like both Australia and the UK are talking about bringing in legislation which allows people to be stripped of their citizenship if they support people like ISIS. And the previous Australian PM wanted this decided by one minister - not the courts (like how Fascist is that?) :shocked:

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 06:00 PM
The state has no right to oversee or impose it's will on anyone not given a voice in the process.

And nothing makes you military types special or the standard bearer for competence in any way. You're not that special. Maybe individuals in the military are, but that goes for certain individuals in any line of work.

There is no reason society could not chose to limit its definition of citizen.

Dr. Who
01-14-2016, 06:00 PM
I don't support mandatory service. I am against it. Their is virtue in volunteering for the military. If the ability to vote was restricted to those who have served in the military, people would volunteer just to preserve their right to be a full citizen. Furthermore, anyone who couldn't pass the physical would be excluded and of those who passed both the physical and the mental acuity test, probably more than half would wash out of boot camp since there would be a much greater contingent of females trying to preserve their citizenship rights. Finally, it would be incredibly unconstitutional - see Amendments 14, 15, 17, 19 and 26 as well as the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 06:02 PM
Nationalism and militarism can be a good thing for a nation. Especially one that has a desire to grow.

kilgram
01-14-2016, 06:06 PM
Nationalism and militarism can be a good thing for a nation. Especially one that has a desire to grow.

Like Germany from 1930-1945 :) It would be your ideal nation :) Or the nation described in Starship Troopers.

Green Arrow
01-14-2016, 06:14 PM
A socialist that want more classes... I would not call it a socialist.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

I know you think you are the Chief Leftist but you really aren't. Your constant "No True Scotsman" belligerence is unwelcome. I'm not sure when you decided to take my friendship and throw it back in my face, but whatever.

I've probably shed more blood, sweat, and tears in defense of socialism than you even knew were possible, so screw off.

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 06:15 PM
Like Germany from 1930-1945 :) It would be your ideal nation :) Or the nation described in Starship Troopers.

:wink:

kilgram
01-15-2016, 01:53 AM
I know you think you are the Chief Leftist but you really aren't. Your constant "No True Scotsman" belligerence is unwelcome. I'm not sure when you decided to take my friendship and throw it back in my face, but whatever.

I've probably shed more blood, sweat, and tears in defense of socialism than you even knew were possible, so screw off.
Probably, and I would like to believe it. But what I've seen in this forum is the opposite. What I've seen in this forum is a extreme defense of conservative ideals. Always agreeing with the conservative. Never, fully defending the socialism. So, yes, it is weird for me.

Even in some time ago, I had ignored you because I was truely dissapointed but I decided to give a second chance because of the past friendship and I would like to be friend. My attitude is because the dissapointment and feeling deceived than anything.

And, let's explain better my comment.

Socialism is an ideology that defends the means of production in the hands of the workers. We agree here, right? Creating privileges, as your OP asked for a class, the military, is not very socialist. Also, there is the evident discrimination to the rest of people. Why only should the army get all those privileges and not other groups like the police, the bombers...? As, we say in Spain (and literally translated):

- We all fuck or the bitch throwed to the river.

Green Arrow
01-15-2016, 01:55 AM
Probably, and I would like to believe it. But what I've seen in this forum is the opposite. What I've seen in this forum is a extreme defense of conservative ideals. Always agreeing with the conservative. Never, fully defending the socialism. So, yes, it is weird for me.

Even in some time ago, I had ignored you because I was truely dissapointed. My attitude, is more cause of the dissapointment and feeling deceived than anything.

And, let's explain better my comment.

Socialism is an ideology that defends the means of production in the hands of the workers. We agree here, right? Creating privileges, as your OP asked for a class, the military, is not very socialist. Also, there is the evident discrimination to the rest of people. Why only should the army get all those privileges and not other groups like the police, the bombers...? As, we say in Spain (and literally translated):

- We all fuck or the bitch throwed to the river.

You never accurately identify what I'm even promoting, so how can you expect to accurately gauge my positions?

kilgram
01-15-2016, 03:18 AM
You never accurately identify what I'm even promoting, so how can you expect to accurately gauge my positions?

And what you're promoting. Correct me, please. I would like to be wrong, sincerely.

Green Arrow
01-15-2016, 03:29 AM
And what you're promoting. Correct me, please. I would like to be wrong, sincerely.

For starters, nothing in the first post of this thread should be applied solely to the military. I've already agreed with iustitia that others like firefighters and EMTs should get the same benefits.

kilgram
01-15-2016, 05:51 AM
For starters, nothing in the first post of this thread should be applied solely to the military. I've already agreed with iustitia that others like firefighters and EMTs should get the same benefits.
Well. It is an improvement. However why should they be exempt from paying taxes?

I understand that you are making them exempt from taxes when they are retired. But, in this case would you make that all retired people would be exempt from taxes or only some privileged classes?


Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

Peter1469
01-15-2016, 05:55 AM
Well. It is an improvement. However why should they be exempt from paying taxes?

I understand that you are making them exempt from taxes when they are retired. But, in this case would you make that all retired people would be exempt from taxes or only some privileged classes?


Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

Hopefully just a privileged class such as the military. :smiley: