You are Carrying Concealed, Should You Intervene?

[Safety]

Just some thoughts for our members who carry concealed....


An armed man walked into the Agencia Mexicana convenience store. The man, later identified as 55-year-old Reginald Gildersleeve, produced a handgun and announced his intent to rob the store. Gildersleeve then pointed his weapon at a female employee and forced her to the back of the store. At some point during the robbery, one of the patrons took action. The unidentified patron was licensed and legally carrying a concealed firearm. Several shots later, Gildersleeve lay fatally shot on the floor. He was officially pronounced dead at 7:10 p.m. according to police and the Cook County medical examiner’s office.

Gildersleeve was no saint. He had an extensive criminal history, including prior arrests for robbery, according to reports from the Sun-Times. To this point, most reading this are probably cheering for the “good guy with a gun.” I know I am. But let’s not forget, our unnamed hero or heroine could still be prosecuted.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/police-concealed-carry-license-holder-kills-armed-gunman/

Just remember, because you are in the right, does not mean you won't be faced with tens of thousands of dollars trying to clear your name.

[zelmo1234]

It is very difficult to take action as a customer, unless you are a regular to the store and know all of the staff, AND you were present from beginning to the end. If these 2 things were part of the situation then taking action is thinkable.

But here is what you need to know

#1 you will be arrested and in most cases prosecuted It is still a homicide we just don't know if it is Justifiable.

#2 the family of the fallen victim is going to sue you in civil court and the are going to win. So you have to have liability insurance.

So while everything on the surface appears to be on the up and up, I would need more information to actually recommend taking action.

[Peter1469]

Zelmo is correct.

A carry conceal citizen should only use force when directly confronted or in extreme circumstances.

[zelmo1234]

Zelmo is correct.

A carry conceal citizen should only use force when directly confronted or in extreme circumstances.

I have a store about 3 miles form my home, I know everyone that works there and most of their kids and spouses. We purchase all of our gas and diesel from there and they have a great deli.

If I was in the situation that I was there from the time that the person entered the store, and I had the correct opportunity. I would have the knowledge to act. And I likely would.

But as a rule you only act to protect family and yourself.

[Safety]

Yep, that's what I wanted to bring awareness to. With the litigious society we live in, doing the right thing is not always the best thing.

[The Xl]

Prosecuted and sued for potentially saving someone elses life, and perhaps your own, from an armed criminal. What a country we live in.

[zelmo1234]

Here are a few things that you all should know about if you choose to live the concealed carry lifestyle. And yes I call it that because it is more that strapping on a gun.

#1 if the only class that you took was the class to get your permit or license, you are not qualified to carry.

#2 You should belong to one of the concealed carry groups. here is one
http://try.usconcealedcarry.net/concealed-carry-info-bing/?id=bing&sid=s_global_restrictive&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Search%3A%20*Global%20-Restrictive&utm_term=concealed%20carry%20association%20of%20am erica

They will help you will funding your defense and you will need it.

#3 you need to record your practice time. If you are unwilling to practice at least twice a month, you should not carry and you need to keep all of your training certificates.

#4 you need at least 1 million dollars in personal liability insurance, it is cheap.

#5 you need to have a lawyer on retainer that is well versed in justifiable homicide and concealed carry laws. If you are in an altercation he is your second call right after you call the police.

#6 the only acceptable answer to any question that the officers ask on site is this.

This person Attacked me. I was in fear of my life. I will sign the complaint, and You will have complete cooperation 24 hours after I have obtained legal counsel. You need to memorize that word for word. it is your friend.

#7 be prepared to be arrested and treated like a criminal.

[zelmo1234]

Prosecuted and sued for potentially saving someone elses life, and perhaps your own, from an armed criminal. What a country we live in.

A big Amen to that.

[Common]

Prosecuted and sued for potentially saving someone elses life, and perhaps your own, from an armed criminal. What a country we live in.

criminals and bad guys have always sued and won BIG money from time to time

[The Xl]

criminals and bad guys have always sued and won BIG money from time to time

I'm sure there are some instances where it was justified, but when we're talking about a criminal at large wielding deadly force and threatening multiple people......sorry, your rights go out the window at that point.

[Common]

If you have a legal concealed carry permit and you follow this rule, you should be fine.

Never allow anyone to know you have a gun on your person and NEVER pull that gun, unless you believe someone is going to do you grievous harm OR is doing someone else grievous harm. Just remember there is no room for you to be wrong, you will not get the benefit of the doubt that police officers get when they make a mistake. You will pay for mistakes.

This is why im against anyone just getting a concealed carry permit without HAVING TO GO THROUGH A COURSE on handguns and demonstrating they know how to use it.

I know a guy carries a gun religiously and Id guarantee he couldnt shoot himself in the dick if he wanted too. I just shake my head when im around him its ridiculous to have people like him carrying a gun

[Cletus]

Yep, that's what I wanted to bring awareness to. With the litigious society we live in, doing the right thing is not always the best thing.

Circumstances dictate.

The Reasonable Person Standard is universally accepted as the defining guideline for the use of Deadly Force in US Courts. If you operate within that standard, you should be clear legally.

Quite simply, If a reasonable person in the same set of circumstances would believe himself or a third party to be in imminent threat of death or grievous bodily injury, the use of Deadly Force is warranted.

That is the legal standard. Now, can you expect to be arrested? You will most certainly be detained. However, that does not mean you will be indicted or prosecuted. In my state, for example, the DA has a great deal of prosecutorial discretion. I am confident that in my Judicial District, if the Police investigation determines the Reasonable Person Standard was met and it was a righteous shoot, you will not be prosecuted. That might be different in a different jurisdiction, but that is the way it is here.

Zelmo is right that there are some armed citizen and concealed carry organizations out there that offer legal assistance programs if you are involved in a self defense shooting, but research them carefully if you decide to go that route. Some of them are pretty good. Some are only interested in selling you whatever they can convince you you need.

When the cops show up on the scene, do EXACTLY what they tell you to do and keep your mouth shut. The natural tendency is to try to explain what happened, but that soon after the shooting, when you are still pumped full of adrenaline and under great stress is not the time to do it. The only thing you need to say to them is "I thought he was going to kill me. I want a lawyer." Anything more than that is superfluous and you run the chance of blurting out something that might be used against you later.

[Beevee]

It is very difficult to take action as a customer, unless you are a regular to the store and know all of the staff, AND you were present from beginning to the end. If these 2 things were part of the situation then taking action is thinkable.

But here is what you need to know

#1 you will be arrested and in most cases prosecuted It is still a homicide we just don't know if it is Justifiable.

#2 the family of the fallen victim is going to sue you in civil court and the are going to win. So you have to have liability insurance.

So while everything on the surface appears to be on the up and up, I would need more information to actually recommend taking action.

Does liability insurance include a clause that requires confirmation that the purchaser holds a carry concealed permit?

[Peter1469]

Does liability insurance include a clause that requires confirmation that the purchaser holds a carry concealed permit?

I would guess yes. In fact, carry conceal citizens should contact their insurance company to ensure that they are covered.

[zelmo1234]

Does liability insurance include a clause that requires confirmation that the purchaser holds a carry concealed permit?

I think that would depend on the laws of the state. for example Mine is void if I am committing a crime, but there are a lot of situations that you could have a gun legally and not have a permit. For example in MI you don't need a permit to open carry.

[Beevee]

I think that would depend on the laws of the state. for example Mine is void if I am committing a crime, but there are a lot of situations that you could have a gun legally and not have a permit. For example in MI you don't need a permit to open carry.

Well, there's a get out for the insurance company. Whatever the circumstances, they could claim the result of use of a weapon constituted a crime and tie up a claim for years.