Baiting

[Chris]

We have been getting more and more complaints about threads started as flamebait.

Baiting is covered in the rules: "Members are expected to post in good faith. By this, we mean they are expected to engage in and contribute to discussion rather than detract from it. Examples of posting in bad faith include, but are not limited to: baiting members, going off topic outside of a natural progression, flooding the forum with threads of little or no content, and ignoring moderator requests. Members who consistently violate this principle will be at risk of being banned."

It's not always easy to determine what's baiting but one criteria is whether the OP engages in discussion of topic, or detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss. Anyway we will start to moderate this more.

Moderation will consist of the following action: 1) Moving suspected baiting threads to Rants and adding a warning with http://i.snag.gy/3F75G.jpg prefixed to title. 2) The OP can then either redeem his thread by engaging in discussion; dropping it altogether; or continue detracting, disrupting and discouraging discussion, in which case it will be thrown in the Hole and the OP infracted.

Report suspected flamebait. Don't bait back.

Those who try to detract, disrupt and discourage discussion will simply be warned and, if they persist, infracted.


Posted for VIPs and Mods.

[Matty]

Could you give an example of a thread you consider flame bait?

[Beevee]

Could you give an example of a thread you consider flame bait?

Try looking at my posts. The warnings can't be far away.

[Common]

Finally

[Common Sense]

I'm guessing this will be used against two individuals a lot more than anyone else.

What ever happened to "if you don't like a thread, don't read it"?

[Chris]

Could you give an example of a thread you consider flame bait?

First use, from a few days ago, while we were discussing it: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/54280-Ted-Cruz-Maybe-Planned-Parenthood-shooter-is-Trans-gendered-Leftist?p=1347915&viewfull=1#post1347915

[Common Sense]

Posting a story people react badly to is flame bait?

[Chris]

I'm guessing this will be used against two individuals a lot more than anyone else.

What ever happened to "if you don't like a thread, don't read it"?


It will be used again behavior: "one criteria is whether the OP engages in discussion of topic, or detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss."

I'll add it doesn't just apply to OPs. The existing rules state " Members are expected to post in good faith. By this, we mean they are expected to engage in and contribute to discussion rather than detract from it. Examples of posting in bad faith include, but are not limited to: baiting members, going off topic outside of a natural progression, flooding the forum with threads of little or no content, and ignoring moderator requests."

[Chris]

Posting a story people react badly to is flame bait?

Do you deliberately distort the announcement?

Read: "one criteria is whether the OP engages in discussion of topic, or detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss."

Do you have questions about that?

[Common]

Posting a story people react badly to is flame bait?

Stop being coy and intentionally contradictory, you KNOW exactly what a flame bait thread is. Just because its mostly the same individuals changes nothing

[Chris]

Stop being coy and intentionally contradictory, you KNOW exactly what a flame bait thread is. Just because its mostly the same individuals changes nothing

Again, though, this is not aimed at personalities, but behavior of a certain pattern, "whether the OP poster engages in discussion of topic, or detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss."

[Matty]

Again, though, this is not aimed at personalities, but behavior of a certain pattern, "whether the OP poster engages in discussion of topic, or detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss."


Are you talking about members who drop in, post topics and then leave without ever joining in the conversation?

[Captain Obvious]

Master baiting threads are still cool, right?

[Common]

Again, though, this is not aimed at personalities, but behavior of a certain pattern, "whether the OP poster engages in discussion of topic, or detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss."

Threads started with the intent to troll and bait promote and instigate "posts" in return in the thread that detract from the bait topic. Thats the intent of the trollbait poster in the first place.

I understand personalities or individuals arent the focus but the same individuals post the most trollbait threads and we all know who they are and theres more than two.

[Chris]

Are you talking about members who drop in, post topics and then leave without ever joining in the conversation?

Not for now. What we want to see stop is posting that "detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss."

[Chris]

Master baiting threads are still cool, right?

For you, sure. Though if too graphic, in the Hole with you!!

[Common Sense]

Do you deliberately distort the announcement?

Read: "one criteria is whether the OP engages in discussion of topic, or detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss."

Do you have questions about that?

Yeah, I do. The thread in question was a news thread. It was posted and then attacked in no meaningful way. There was really nothing for the op to "respond" to. Is it up to the OP to further the dialogue and coach the other posters?

Also, if these so called bait threads are posted in rants, what happens then?

Seems all sorta arbitrary to me.

[Chris]

Threads started with the intent to troll and bait promote and instigate "posts" in return in the thread that detract from the bait topic. Thats the intent of the trollbait poster in the first place.

I understand personalities or individuals arent the focus but the same individuals post the most trollbait threads and we all know who they are and theres more than two.

We all probably see different people behaving like this.

[Common Sense]

Question and no offense to the captain, but was his thread "would you rather have been aborted" a bait thread?

Seemed to fit the criteria.

[del]

Question and no offense to the captain, but was his thread "would you rather have been aborted" a bait thread?

Seemed to fit the criteria.

that was an honest quest for enlightenment, imo

[Chris]

Yeah, I do. The thread in question was a news thread. It was posted and then attacked in no meaningful way. There was really nothing for the op to "respond" to. Is it up to the OP to further the dialogue and coach the other posters?

Also, if these so called bait threads are posted in rants, what happens then?

Seems all sorta arbitrary to me.



Is it up to the OP to further the dialogue and coach the other posters?

Yes.


Also, if these so called bait threads are posted in rants, what happens then?

Warning will be issued, and then TBs.


Seems all sorta arbitrary to me.

Thus targeting behavior: that "detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss."

[Chris]

Question and no offense to the captain, but was his thread "would you rather have been aborted" a bait thread?

Seemed to fit the criteria.

Report it. Mods will discuss it. We don't discuss specific moderation cases publicly.

[Common]

Question and no offense to the captain, but was his thread "would you rather have been aborted" a bait thread?

Seemed to fit the criteria.

Everyone can see and realize the difference between humor and intentional trollbaiting with the sole aim to instigate and promote acrimony. Aside from that forum regulars that have been here we all know them and their history

You are trying to be overly critical and to distract from the new rule enforcements because frankly in your mind you are protecting two individuals who are like minded as yourself who are the TWO WORST troll baiters on the forum.

[hanger4]

Yeah, I do. The thread in question was a news thread. It was posted and then attacked in no meaningful way. There was really nothing for the op to "respond" to. Is it up to the OP to further the dialogue and coach the other posters?.
I'd like to read this OP. Could, would you post a link ?? You could PM me the link if you'd feel more comfortable.

[Chris]

The aim here is not to go after or chase anyone off but, with focus on behavior, to hopefully change behavior in a positive way.

[del]

it's amusing to watch the anarchist advocate social engineering

[Common Sense]

Everyone can see and realize the difference between humor and intentional trollbaiting with the sole aim to instigate and promote acrimony. Aside from that forum regulars that have been here we all know them and their history

You are trying to be overly critical and to distract from the new rule enforcements because frankly in your mind you are protecting two individuals who are like minded as yourself who are the TWO WORST troll baiters on the forum.

I just don't think there is even application. I also don't think Captain's thread was intended as humor.

If you read, for instance Mac's" "Odummer climate derp" or whatever he posts, they aren't treated the same as say the Exotix thread in question.

They aren't like minded to me and I don't always agree with their tactics, but they are treated differently because they are farther left.

Like I said before, no one makes us click on threads. Do we really need to be babysat in that manner? Are we not capable of restraint? I don't engage all the far right trolls.

I don't know, just seems silly to me...

[Common Sense]

it's amusing to watch the anarchist advocate social engineering

Isn't it?

I wonder if proponents of this think the cheerleader should have been kicked off the team for baiting.

[Common]

Common sense, I like you and im not trying to attack you. I know you are very liberal and thats fine but there is a difference between being liberal and posting pro liberal threads that are posted for discussion and Threads posted to goad and insult whether directly or by innuendo and cause acrimony that leads to arguments. They serve no purpose for liberals like yourself and actually hurt liberal positions because they just piss people off and THAT IS THEIR INTENTION to piss people off.

There are those on the right that do the exact same thing, this is not a liberal or conservative single out thing, the rule applies to everyone. You as well as everyone else from the Administrator right on down the line knows who the worst are on the forum.

[Common Sense]

I'd like to read this OP. Could, would you post a link ?? You could PM me the link if you'd feel more comfortable.

See post 6.

[Common Sense]

Common sense, I like you and im not trying to attack you. I know you are very liberal and thats fine but there is a difference between being liberal and posting pro liberal threads that are posted for discussion and Threads posted to goad and insult whether directly or by innuendo and cause acrimony that leads to arguments. They serve no purpose for liberals like yourself and actually hurt liberal positions because they just piss people off and THAT IS THEIR INTENTION to piss people off.

There are those on the right that do the exact same thing, this is not a liberal or conservative single out thing, the rule applies to everyone. You as well as everyone else from the Administrator right on down the line knows who the worst are on the forum.

I don't see it being applied evenly. That's my only concern.

Perception is a hell of a thing...

Anyways, gotta run. Ya'll play nice...

[Common]

I don't see it being applied evenly. That's my only concern.

Perception is a hell of a thing...

Anyways, gotta run. Ya'll play nice...

Ok who do you think wont apply it evenly. I got infracted and banned to the hole twice in my responses to cigars troll threads

[Chris]

I don't see it being applied evenly. That's my only concern.

Perception is a hell of a thing...

Anyways, gotta run. Ya'll play nice...


It hasn't really been applied. I pointed to an experimental moving and warning while VIPs and Mods discussed. This morning is official announcement.

[Common]

I just don't think there is even application. I also don't think Captain's thread was intended as humor.

If you read, for instance Mac's" "Odummer climate derp" or whatever he posts, they aren't treated the same as say the Exotix thread in question.

They aren't like minded to me and I don't always agree with their tactics, but they are treated differently because they are farther left.

Like I said before, no one makes us click on threads. Do we really need to be babysat in that manner? Are we not capable of restraint? I don't engage all the far right trolls.

I don't know, just seems silly to me...

They are not treated because they are further left, they put themselves in everyones face because they do it incessantly non stop. Sometimes 10 or more threads a day.

You cant defend facts common sense. Actually those two have gotten away with more for a very long time than anyone else. I would like to be clear there are more than just those two and they arent liberal either.

There is a difference between trolling and baiting with the sole intent to provoke instigate and insult than posting very progressive thinking threads that create passion over extreme right wing threads that cause the same passionate responses.

Seriously you cant see the constant at each others throat thing going on instead of just discussing differences.

I go to two other forums, not as much as im on here, they have right and left wingers but they do NOT have anywhere near the animosity that is on this forum and again its both left and right its not a onesided thing.

[Ravens Fan]

it's amusing to watch the anarchist advocate social engineering

This is a private web site, Del, not an arm of the Government.

[Mister D]

lol Who would have thought such an obvious improvement would be so unpopular with the caped crusader?

[Mister D]

This is a private web site, Del, not an arm of the Government.

He shouldn't have wasted his big gotcha moment so early in the morning. Now he's stuck with goofy one liners for the rest of the day...oh wait

[Ravens Fan]

I don't see it being applied evenly. That's my only concern.

Perception is a hell of a thing...

Anyways, gotta run. Ya'll play nice...

Then when/if you see it not being applied evenly, report it.

[Matty]

Ok who do you think wont apply it evenly. I got infracted and banned to the hole twice in my responses to cigars troll threads


Cigar will be allowed to continue his race baiting. I was infracted as you were for mentioning race. I had no idea it was against the rules to mention race.

[Mister D]

Cigar will be allowed to continue his race baiting. I was infracted as you were for mentioning race. I had no idea it was against the rules to mention race.

Hopefully this will curtail that behavior but how he got away with it for so long is a question quite a few of us have asked.

[Chris]

Cigar will be allowed to continue his race baiting. I was infracted as you were for mentioning race. I had no idea it was against the rules to mention race.

GENERAL WARNING: No more singling members out and no more discussing specific cases of moderation. Address topic or TBs will follow.

[Matty]

GENERAL WARNING: No more singling members out and no more discussing specific cases of moderation. Address topic or TBs will follow.


I will icomply but will point out it is a difficult topic to discuss without using illustrations.

[Crepitus]

Master baiting threads are still cool, right?
Back by popular demand!

[Common]

Back by popular demand!

lol ahh you can always depend on Captain Obvious to stick it to everyone he has no favorites

[Common]

Lets not argue over enforcing a rule that attempts to diminish the right wing and the left wing trollbait threads on the forum that cause so much grief and arguments.

Most all of us should be all for this not arguing about it

[Safety]

This is a private web site, Del, not an arm of the Government.

While that is very true, it still doesn't stop the calls about being censured or violation of free speech here, whenever someone is infracted for something they said.

[Cletus]

So, who are these people who are so weak they are unable to ignore threads they don't like and feel a need to complain to Moderators every time someone posts something that makes them want to cry?

I would like to know so I can make sure I don't engage them accidentally. I prefer to discuss things with adults.

[Matty]

While that is very true, it still doesn't stop the calls about being censured or violation of free speech here, whenever someone is infracted for something they said.


Oh, there you have it. Almost everything a conservative says irritates the liberals. And since liberals rule the roost it will go very badly for the conservatives. You are right. This is no democracy.

[Matty]

Liberals are irritated because the word liberal is used.

[Safety]

Oh, there you have it. Almost everything a conservative says irritates the liberals. And since liberals rule the roost it will go very badly for the conservatives. You are right. This is no democracy.

Your opinion is noted. Enjoy your stay.

[Matty]

Your opinion is noted. Enjoy your stay.


Yes, noted. Not disputed.

[Chris]

it's amusing to watch the anarchist advocate social engineering


This is a private web site, Del, not an arm of the Government.


While that is very true, it still doesn't stop the calls about being censured or violation of free speech here, whenever someone is infracted for something they said.

Nor has this anything at all to do with anarchism.

[Chris]

So, who are these people who are so weak they are unable to ignore threads they don't like and feel a need to complain to Moderators every time someone posts something that makes them want to cry?

I would like to know so I can make sure I don't engage them accidentally. I prefer to discuss things with adults.


The concern is not members but behavior, behavior that doesn't want to engage in discussion.

[Chris]

Oh, there you have it. Almost everything a conservative says irritates the liberals. And since liberals rule the roost it will go very badly for the conservatives. You are right. This is no democracy.

Ironically liberals say the same thing about conservatives.

[Matty]

Ironically liberals say the same thing about conservatives.


I know. I have heard this excuse repeatedly. Truth is liberals rule the roost. The mods and VIPs are liberals.

[Cletus]

The concern is not members but behavior, behavior that doesn't want to engage in discussion.

Well, since it is members who engage in "behavior", the two are inseparable.

I still think it would be a good idea for you guys to do a study and see how many threads and discussions have been effectively killed by instituting "thread bans" on participants.

[Safety]

Yes, noted. Not disputed.

Some things are not worth the headache.

[Matty]

Some things are not worth the headache.


Yes, I know.

[Safety]

I know. I have heard this excuse repeatedly. Truth is liberals rule the roost. The mods and VIPs are liberals.

Another opinion.

[Safety]

Yes, I know.

Then that's something we agree on.

[Matty]

Another opinion.


A truth opinion.

[Chris]

I know. I have heard this excuse repeatedly. Truth is liberals rule the roost. The mods and VIPs are liberals.

So it's an excuse for liberals but a reason for conservatives? :studying:


How does an announcement we're going to focus some on stopping baiting lead to this?

[Chris]

Well, since it is members who engage in "behavior", the two are inseparable.

I still think it would be a good idea for you guys to do a study and see how many threads and discussions have been effectively killed by instituting "thread bans" on participants.


That's true, but we don't moderate members for who they are, we moderate members for their behavior.


I see, so moderation is the problem, not baiting and name calling and other behavior that violates rules you all as member agree to abode by.

[Safety]

A truth opinion.

Disagree.

[Ravens Fan]

13647

[Chris]

A truth opinion.

Opinion on truth.

http://i.snag.gy/7YXTV.jpg

[Matty]

So it's an excuse for liberals but a reason for conservatives? :studying:


How does an announcement we're going to focus some on stopping baiting lead to this?



Because I think the liberals will be offended by anything a conservative posts and report it as baiting. You already see this behavior on the board. Most liberals already accuse the conservatives as being trolls and baiters. And, since mods and VIPs are liberals they will agree with them.

[Matty]

Opinion on truth.

http://i.snag.gy/7YXTV.jpg
Well, I bet you cannot prove that you yourself do not operate based on opinions you have formed based upon what you see and read. So, mock all you want. It changes nothing.

[Truth Detector]

We have been getting more and more complaints about threads started as flamebait.

Baiting is covered in the rules: "Members are expected to post in good faith. By this, we mean they are expected to engage in and contribute to discussion rather than detract from it. Examples of posting in bad faith include, but are not limited to: baiting members, going off topic outside of a natural progression, flooding the forum with threads of little or no content, and ignoring moderator requests. Members who consistently violate this principle will be at risk of being banned."

It's not always easy to determine what's baiting but one criteria is whether the OP engages in discussion of topic, or detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss. Anyway we will start to moderate this more.

Moderation will consist of the following action: 1) Moving suspected baiting threads to Rants and adding a warning with http://i.snag.gy/3F75G.jpg prefixed to title. 2) The OP can then either redeem his thread by engaging in discussion; dropping it altogether; or continue detracting, disrupting and discouraging discussion, in which case it will be thrown in the Hole and the OP infracted.

Report suspected flamebait. Don't bait back.

Those who try to detract, disrupt and discourage discussion will simply be warned and, if they persist, infracted.

Posted for VIPs and Mods.

The very last thing this forum needs is more moderation or moderators who can divine infractions based on their subjective opinions.

[Matty]

Disagree.


Free for thee but not for me.

[Chris]

Because I think the liberals will be offended by anything a conservative posts and report it as baiting. You already see this behavior on the board. Most liberals already accuse the conservatives as being trolls and baiters. And, since mods and VIPs are liberals they will agree with them.

And vice versa.

But the point of the announcement is not to simply report what you think is baiting but report instances where baiting is evidenced by a refusal to discuss the point of an OP or, for that matter, a post.

[William]

Lol, Befehl ist Befehl so what's to argue about? Them's the rules, and if we don't want to follow the rules - there's the door.

I don't like my school uniform - I think it's silly looking and old fashioned - but if I turn up in class wearing something else, I know I will get in trouble - cos it's the rule, and I knew it was the rule the first day I went to school. I can't say stuff like "Oh all the teachers and prefects are 'liberals' that's why I have to wear this dopey uniform!" and get away with not wearing the uniform.

It's the same with all the other rules - stop whinging about it, don't break them just cos you think you're too clever for the rest of us, and you won't get dinged. I think it's great that the mods are clamping down a bit - some people here seem to think they can just say whatever they like, and everyone else has to take it and smile. Calling someone insulting names, or just ranting about the conservatives or the socialists, is not having a discussion - and it's not interesting to read. It turns lurkers away from the board and they don't join.

I know what I'm talking about - cos I lurked on a number of boards before I joined this one, and I didn't join them cos there was too much nastiness, bullying, and insulting. I don't want it to get like that here.

[Chris]

The very last thing this forum needs is more moderation or moderators who can divine infractions based on their subjective opinions.

The topic of the thread is focus on behavior that exhibits baiting, not moderators. If you have a complaint, take it to PMs. --Consider that a friendly warning.

[Truth Detector]

I'm guessing this will be used against two individuals a lot more than anyone else.

What ever happened to "if you don't like a thread, don't read it"?


Posting a story people react badly to is flame bait?

Be careful of what you wish for.

[Chris]

Well, I bet you cannot prove that you yourself do not operate based on opinions you have formed based upon what you see and read. So, mock all you want. It changes nothing.

That wasn't mockery. It made the point that we all see truth differently. That's true.

[Matty]

And vice versa.

But the point of the announcement is not to simply report what you think is baiting but report instances where baiting is evidenced by a refusal to discuss the point of an OP or, for that matter, a post.


There's the disconnect. There is no visa versa.

[Truth Detector]

Yeah, I do. The thread in question was a news thread. It was posted and then attacked in no meaningful way. There was really nothing for the op to "respond" to. Is it up to the OP to further the dialogue and coach the other posters?

Also, if these so called bait threads are posted in rants, what happens then?

Seems all sorta arbitrary to me.

BINGO; but you're okay with it if the moderation goes against Conservatives right? ::wink wink::

[Matty]

The only way to comply with this rule is to not post or start new threads.

[Chris]

There's the disconnect. There is no visa versa.

Believe me, we see libs claim that about cons and cons about libs every darn day.

[Chris]

The only way to comply with this rule is to not post or start new threads.

Or, in a word, discuss.

It's a forum after all.

[Truth Detector]

Lets not argue over enforcing a rule that attempts to diminish the right wing and the left wing trollbait threads on the forum that cause so much grief and arguments.

Most all of us should be all for this not arguing about it

If posts on a political blog are causing anyone "grief", they should find another hobby or seek out a therapist. Seriously?

Causing arguments??? Isn't that what a political blog is intended for? Seriously??

[Adelaide]

I'm going to close this thread.

If you have further questions please feel free to contact a member of the moderation team.

[Chris]

Leaving closed so as to avoid distractions. Send PMs if you have questions.

Let's look at this again: "It's not always easy to determine what's baiting but one criteria is whether the OP engages in discussion of topic, or detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss."

That doesn't say an OP or a post is bait. It could be, sure, but how do you know? Well, one way is to watch how the OP/poster follows up on responses. If he tries to engage is discussion, then good, we're here for discussion. But if he dismisses responses, detracts, disrupts and discourages any attempt to discuss, then he's not interested in discussion, but is baiting.

So, please, don't report posts you think baiting, test them, then report.

Thank you.

[Chris]

Also, while I'm at it, in the same vein, taunting, smartass remarks, off-topic nonsense will be tolerated as snark but when it gets excessive, baiting. Do try and contribute to discussion rather than disrupt it.

[Chris]

Some advice. If you think someone is baiting, what should you do?



Ignore it. Simple.
Report it. Then mods will watch it.
Test it. Try to engage the person in discussion of OP or post. If they don't, report it.
Handle it yourself. Make accusations, insult, etc--no, not smart, this will earn you a warning or infraction.