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Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 07:12 PM
:biglaugh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxVv7pbqXvY

Safety
01-25-2016, 07:14 PM
Welcome back, and quality thread!

Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 07:16 PM
Welcome back, and quality thread!

Yeah, just brace yourself for a manifesto from IMPress Polly .

:biglaugh:

(j/k Polly, sort of)

Common
01-25-2016, 07:20 PM
Hey cap welcome back

Crepitus
01-25-2016, 07:40 PM
:biglaugh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxVv7pbqXvY

Tits to big? That's like saying "I have too much money" or "the sky is too blue" isn't it?

Green Arrow
01-25-2016, 07:45 PM
Tits to big? That's like saying "I have too much money" or "the sky is too blue" isn't it?

Eh. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. For example...

http://www.hugetitswomen.com/st/thumbs/629/iUUzGXeJLv.jpg

Crepitus
01-25-2016, 07:47 PM
Eh. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. For example...

http://www.hugetitswomen.com/st/thumbs/629/iUUzGXeJLv.jpg

I stand corrected.



And disgusted.

Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 07:48 PM
Tits to big? That's like saying "I have too much money" or "the sky is too blue" isn't it?

Personally, I'll take too small over too big but that's me.

I'm an oddball like that I guess.

Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 07:49 PM
Eh. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. For example...

http://www.hugetitswomen.com/st/thumbs/629/iUUzGXeJLv.jpg

No photoshop there lol, that looks like an elongated ass crack.

Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 07:50 PM
I've met this person actually, she runs a hick strip joint about 15 miles from where I used to live in PA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTuNCuDNH4g

Tricia
01-25-2016, 07:51 PM
Eh. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. For example...

http://www.hugetitswomen.com/st/thumbs/629/iUUzGXeJLv.jpg

Holy crap!

del
01-25-2016, 07:52 PM
Eh. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. For example...

http://www.hugetitswomen.com/st/thumbs/629/iUUzGXeJLv.jpg


whoa

that's a pair that beats three of a kind

Crepitus
01-25-2016, 07:55 PM
Personally, I'll take too small over too big but that's me.

I'm an oddball like that I guess.

My gal wieghs 105# so she's not huge either.

Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 07:56 PM
Holy crap!

The circumference of that areola is larger than her waist.

Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 07:57 PM
My gal wieghs 105# so she's not huge either.

Let me be the judge of that.

:biglaugh:

Crepitus
01-25-2016, 08:00 PM
Let me be the judge of that.

:biglaugh:

She's in MO today up by KC, go take a look.

Crepitus
01-25-2016, 08:01 PM
The circumference of that areola is larger than her waist.

Now that you mention it there's a vein that's bigger than her arm.

Green Arrow
01-25-2016, 08:03 PM
My gal wieghs 105# so she's not huge either.

My wife is a good-sized D. I used to be afraid of anything bigger than a C until I met her :tongue:

Tricia
01-25-2016, 08:05 PM
Now that you mention it there's a vein that's bigger than her arm.

OMG, gross!

Crepitus
01-25-2016, 08:05 PM
The Tiny Dancer is a small B, but they are in my humble opinion perfect in every detail.

Green Arrow
01-25-2016, 08:07 PM
The Tiny Dancer is a small B, but they are in my humble opinion perfect in every detail.

Indeed.

Crepitus
01-25-2016, 08:09 PM
OMG, gross!

I know!

The Xl
01-25-2016, 08:09 PM
I......uhh......never had an issue with Tifas tit size.

Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 08:19 PM
I......uhh......never had an issue with Tifas tit size.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PKKb0DBzu4

del
01-25-2016, 08:20 PM
this thread just screams world class

Dr. Who
01-25-2016, 09:44 PM
Eh. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. For example...

http://www.hugetitswomen.com/st/thumbs/629/iUUzGXeJLv.jpg
That was photoshopped. No woman could even stand up with breasts that outweighed their body. lol.

Green Arrow
01-25-2016, 09:50 PM
That was photoshopped. No woman could even stand up with breasts that outweighed their body. lol.

you can tell if you look at the lines and the little details.

I have seen some pretty ridiculously sized boobs that weren't photoshopped, though. My best friend in high school (not counting my wife), her mom actually had a breast reduction just so she could walk around without severe back problems, and her boobs were STILL huge. She was a size I didn't even know existed. I think my best friend said it was like an S or something.

Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 09:51 PM
"little details" lawl

Dr. Who
01-25-2016, 10:06 PM
you can tell if you look at the lines and the little details.

I have seen some pretty ridiculously sized boobs that weren't photoshopped, though. My best friend in high school (not counting my wife), her mom actually had a breast reduction just so she could walk around without severe back problems, and her boobs were STILL huge. She was a size I didn't even know existed. I think my best friend said it was like an S or something.
I'm fairly sure that they didn't outweigh the rest of her. That image looks like she has the equivalent of another person hanging off her chest.

sachem
01-25-2016, 10:24 PM
Eh. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. For example...

http://www.hugetitswomen.com/st/thumbs/629/iUUzGXeJLv.jpgThose have got to hurt.

Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 10:40 PM
Those have got to hurt.

Who?

:biglaugh:

Hal Jordan
01-25-2016, 10:49 PM
Finally! The type of highbrow thread we've been missing!

So, as long as they're at least a handful, I'm not too picky on breast size. There is a point where they're too big...

Green Arrow
01-25-2016, 10:50 PM
I'm fairly sure that they didn't outweigh the rest of her. That image looks like she has the equivalent of another person hanging off her chest.

No, her's looked more like these:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpdXV3sIIAIicP0.jpg

IMPress Polly
01-26-2016, 05:43 AM
You know, I start at least half the threads on this forum, put real thought into them, and am lucky to get four replies to any given one of them. Captain Obvious says "boobs" and gets four pages. There is something unfair about that. :tongue:

Imagine if we spent four pages debating a man's dick size and what precise length is too long for comfort. With pictures. Would that ever happen? Why not?

My response to the OP (which, as Captain Obvious suggested, is probably pretty predictable at this point) is to point out that even if you buy its conveniently self-serving argument about the humanizing merits of female characters with what seem as unlikely proportions, frankly look at the way she's dressed. Unless she's headed to a porn shoot, it's not exactly believable and definitely designed to stress...well you know what I'm getting at. Look at her fan tribute videos (like the one posted by Captain Obvious earlier on this thread) and see what they emphasize about her. Face it, because of her character design, the only thing most fans remember about Tifa is the way she looked. You see, the simple fact of the matter is that if you want to get to know a woman -- her likes, her dislikes, her fears, her hopes and aspirations, etc. -- you're probably not going to learn that information by staring at her boobs. It's not a very effective empathy-builder. Hence why I don't feel that there's anything particularly humanizing about designing female characters for the essential purpose of being ogled by presumed straight male players.

It's not that Tifa is an unimportant character in Final Fantasy VII who can't have the same basic role in the remake, but rather that that role would be better emphasized were the sexualization factor to be toned down in some way. It worked out reasonably well for Lara Croft.

It has been 19 years since the release of the original Final Fantasy VII and there are a lot more female players today than there were back then to be considered.

sachem
01-26-2016, 06:29 AM
You know, I start at least half the threads on this forum, put real thought into them, and am lucky to get four replies to any given one of them. Captain Obvious says "boobs" and gets four pages. There is something unfair about that. :tongue:
Boys. Tits and ass are the distractions that keep them from guns and things that go boom. Otherwise they would have killed us all eons ago.

midcan5
01-26-2016, 07:33 AM
Normally I avoid complex issues such as boob size given that there are lots of simple issues. But quite by accident I saw this article today and thought 'eureka' an answer!

http://www.attn.com/stories/5322/scientific-reason-for-boob-obsession

"You can get a man's attention if you got a pair of boobs and a butt. I hate to simplify them down so much, but I think it's true." Sarah Shahi

IMPress Polly
01-26-2016, 11:39 AM
Thank you everyone (so far) for the kind reception my post earlier received. I always worry about the consequences of making honest posts on topics like this, so it was unexpected and nice to get some positive reinforcement on that. Just wanted to say thanks for listening.

iustitia
01-26-2016, 03:24 PM
Tifa's tits are 10/10 would plow.

Feminism and political correctness poison everything. Like when everyone got outraged over Spider-Woman's butt on that comic cover. Manufactured outrage.

Nobody looks at He-Man and considers it offensive that an ultra-Chippendale is marketed as the pinnacle of manhood.

So which is it? Is it slut-shaming to insult a woman for having large breasts and wearing a skirt, or is it feminist critique of male chauvinist desires?

If a woman gets raped and blamed for dressing like a whore, that's blaming the victim. But if a woman looks good, while fighting town-flattening machines and supernova-inducing demi-gods no less, she clearly belongs on a porn set.

Feminism is self-defeating, venomous towards everything, poisoning, and logically inconsistent.

http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/Lol-Face-Animated-Gif-08.gif

On an unrelated note, Anita Sarkeesian's a lying whore.

Peter1469
01-26-2016, 03:47 PM
Thank you everyone (so far) for the kind reception my post earlier received. I always worry about the consequences of making honest posts on topics like this, so it was unexpected and nice to get some positive reinforcement on that. Just wanted to say thanks for listening.

Don't worry about what people who get nasty with you think.

Captain Obvious
01-26-2016, 05:51 PM
IMPress Polly - was I nasty with you? I didn't think I was.

Peter1469
01-26-2016, 05:52 PM
@IMPress Polly (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=399) - was I nasty with you? I didn't think I was.

I don't think so. Others habitually are.

Captain Obvious
01-26-2016, 05:56 PM
I didn't think so either but I know I can get on her nerves.

It's easy.

:D

Hal Jordan
01-26-2016, 10:47 PM
Imagine if we spent four pages debating a man's dick size and what precise length is too long for comfort.

Hey, if that's something you want to discuss, go ahead. It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Crepitus
01-26-2016, 10:52 PM
Hey, if that's something you want to discuss, go ahead. It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Besides, I'd win. ;)

Hal Jordan
01-26-2016, 10:52 PM
Thank you everyone (so far) for the kind reception my post earlier received. I always worry about the consequences of making honest posts on topics like this, so it was unexpected and nice to get some positive reinforcement on that. Just wanted to say thanks for listening.

I don't think you should worry about that. Honest discussion is important. As long as you post intelligently, I'll always respect an honest post, whether I agree or disagree. In fact, sometimes I prefer an honest, intelligent post that I disagree with, as that can be used for a learning experience.

Hal Jordan
01-26-2016, 10:54 PM
Besides, I'd win. ;)

You know, some say bragging about it is a sign of actually being insecure about it...

Crepitus
01-26-2016, 11:01 PM
You know, some say bragging about it is a sign of actually being insecure about it...

It's just a joke Hal, I got nuthin to prove.

Hal Jordan
01-26-2016, 11:04 PM
It's just a joke Hal, I got nuthin to prove.

I know. I just couldn't let that fly without a shot...

Green Arrow
01-26-2016, 11:16 PM
Imagine if we spent four pages debating a man's dick size and what precise length is too long for comfort. With pictures. Would that ever happen? Why not?



Hell, I'd be all for that. Especially with pictures.

iustitia
01-26-2016, 11:18 PM
Heterosexism! What about all the lesbian gamers that like big tits too? Biased outrage is biased I say!

sachem
01-26-2016, 11:52 PM
Finally! The type of highbrow thread we've been missing!

So, as long as they're at least a handful, I'm not too picky on breast size. There is a point where they're too big...Handful? I've always heard a mouthful was enough.

IMPress Polly
01-27-2016, 06:36 AM
Captain Obvious wrote:
@IMPress Polly (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=399) - was I nasty with you? I didn't think I was.

A couple of times in the past, but not lately, no. I wasn't more broadly trying to suggest that PF is anything like VG Chartz or anything like that either. We don't (to my knowledge anyway) have issues in regards to illegal forms of retaliation here anymore and haven't for a long time. Rather, it's that we've had these sorts of conversations before here in this forum and it usually winds up with people ganging up on me, which, and I hope this doesn't seem hyper-sensitive or anything, but it just makes me feel very alone. It would be unreasonable to ask people to change their opinions just because of how I feel about them, so I can't do that. But sexual objectification is a sensitive topic everywhere, I find, and I don't want to risk losing friends like XL and Green Arrow by addressing it, given what my position is (opposed) and how unpopular that position is. Or at least how I unpopular I thought it was anyway. At the same time though, especially when I'm mentioned by name, I feel morally obliged to, for the sake of other women who may be intimidated by the general tone, say something when the subject comes up or seems pertinent to the present situation. I just don't want to lose friends as a result, so there's a conflict that goes on in my mind, in connection to which I found the positive reception of my earlier remarks unexpected and reassuring and just wanted to thank everyone for that. That's all.


Hal Jordan wrote:
I don't think you should worry about that. Honest discussion is important. As long as you post intelligently, I'll always respect an honest post, whether I agree or disagree. In fact, sometimes I prefer an honest, intelligent post that I disagree with, as that can be used for a learning experience.

I see that more fully now vis-a-vis this community writ large. And I should also apologize to you for not responding to your message requesting an interview for your project on sexism in geek culture a long time ago because that was rude. It was a more sensitive subject for me at the time because I was dealing with some pretty serious (by which I mean privacy and safety oriented) concerns and didn't want to discuss that sort of thing with someone I didn't really know. I didn't know how to say that without it coming off the wrong way (like "I think you might be X sort of person" or something), so I chickened out. Not your fault, and I kind of feel kind of bad for not having accepted your request or said anything in reply. I apologize!


Hey, if that's something you want to discuss, go ahead. It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Do I really come off as that sort of person to you? :wink:

I'm not a shallow person. I'd be lying if I said that a man's appearance means absolutely nothing to me, but there are other things that matter more. Besides that, I know that, no matter what you guys may say to look tough or cool or even just simply fair, there's a level on which you're not being completely truthful when you say it wouldn't bother you at all to be sexually compared to others in a negative way, either directly or by implication, because it's very personal. That's simply human.


Green Arrow wrote:
Hell, I'd be all for that. Especially with pictures.

Well you're a special case, GA. You have a "vested interest" in sexual objectification of all kinds. :wink:

Common
01-27-2016, 07:48 AM
We live in a world where whoever set it up made it Men are the offense women are the defense and nothing has changed that in my lifetime. I dont see it happening anytime soon. Whether its right or wrong I dont think matters. Its just not changing.

Polly needs to realize what shes up against, its not only the men but for every woman that takes offense to anything thats about women, theres 5 women that use it to their advantage so it always perpetuates itself.

boys will always be boys and always chase the girls. Someone or something made it that way.

Cigar
01-27-2016, 08:02 AM
Eh. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. For example...

http://www.hugetitswomen.com/st/thumbs/629/iUUzGXeJLv.jpg

That's what they look like to Babies ... :grin: Oh Mamma ... :laugh:

Cigar
01-27-2016, 08:03 AM
Handful? I've always heard a mouthful was enough.

If it falls below the Belly Button ... Run

sachem
01-27-2016, 08:29 AM
We live in a world where whoever set it up made it Men are the offense women are the defense and nothing has changed that in my lifetime. I dont see it happening anytime soon. Whether its right or wrong I dont think matters. Its just not changing.

Polly needs to realize what shes up against, its not only the men but for every woman that takes offense to anything thats about women, theres 5 women that use it to their advantage so it always perpetuates itself.

boys will always be boys and always chase the girls. Someone or something made it that way.Women were put here to civilize men, or to do their best trying. The women gotta use whatever weapons they have to work with.

Common
01-27-2016, 09:06 AM
Women were put here to civilize men, or to do their best trying. The women gotta use whatever weapons they have to work with.

I dont disagree with that at all

Hal Jordan
01-27-2016, 02:29 PM
A couple of times in the past, but not lately, no. I wasn't more broadly trying to suggest that PF is anything like VG Chartz or anything like that either. We don't (to my knowledge anyway) have issues in regards to illegal forms of retaliation here anymore and haven't for a long time. Rather, it's that we've had these sorts of conversations before here in this forum and it usually winds up with people ganging up on me, which, and I hope this doesn't seem hyper-sensitive or anything, but it just makes me feel very alone. It would be unreasonable to ask people to change their opinions just because of how I feel about them, so I can't do that. But sexual objectification is a sensitive topic everywhere, I find, and I don't want to risk losing friends like XL and Green Arrow by addressing it, given what my position is (opposed) and how unpopular that position is. Or at least how I unpopular I thought it was anyway.

I can assure you that Green Arrow won't give up a friendship just because someone disagrees with him. Hell, I've intentionally disagreed with him and pissed him off at times, and I just can't get rid of him. :wink:


At the same time though, especially when I'm mentioned by name, I feel morally obliged to, for the sake of other women who may be intimidated by the general tone, say something when the subject comes up or seems pertinent to the present situation. I just don't want to lose friends as a result, so there's a conflict that goes on in my mind, in connection to which I found the positive reception of my earlier remarks unexpected and reassuring and just wanted to thank everyone for that. That's all.

I'm of a mind that if you feel morally obliged to do something, that should trump other concerns. Anyways, you'll find that most of the friends worth having will stick with you even when you do something seriously assholish, like I've done with Green Arrow enough times... :tongue:


I see that more fully now vis-a-vis this community writ large. And I should also apologize to you for not responding to your message requesting an interview for your project on sexism in geek culture a long time ago because that was rude. It was a more sensitive subject for me at the time because I was dealing with some pretty serious (by which I mean privacy and safety oriented) concerns and didn't want to discuss that sort of thing with someone I didn't really know. I didn't know how to say that without it coming off the wrong way (like "I think you might be X sort of person" or something), so I chickened out. Not your fault, and I kind of feel kind of bad for not having accepted your request or said anything in reply. I apologize!

No worries. I honestly just assumed you hadn't responded because you don't really know me all that well. I am curious as to what kind of person you think I am, though. :tongue: Just so you know, it is extremely difficult to offend me.


Do I really come off as that sort of person to you? :wink:

I can't say that you do.


I'm not a shallow person. I'd be lying if I said that a man's appearance means absolutely nothing to me, but there are other things that matter more. Besides that, I know that, no matter what you guys may say to look tough or cool or even just simply fair, there's a level on which you're not being completely truthful when you say it wouldn't bother you at all to be sexually compared to others in a negative way, either directly or by implication, because it's very personal. That's simply human.

Oh, appearance matters to everyone. I am in agreement with other things mattering more. Well, here's the thing. Nobody here would be comparing me sexually to others, as nobody here has experienced me sexually. :tongue: In the end, though, even though I'm a terrible flirt, I'm only concerned with how one person views me sexually, as my future wife (if I even get one) is the only one that really matters in that regard. Negative or favourable opinions from others don't really matter, be it from friends, past girlfriends, or even my ex-wife.


Well you're a special case, GA. You have a "vested interest" in sexual objectification of all kinds. :wink:

He most certainly does.

IMPress Polly
01-29-2016, 06:13 PM
Hal Jordan wrote:
No worries. I honestly just assumed you hadn't responded because you don't really know me all that well. I am curious as to what kind of person you think I am, though. :tongue: Just so you know, it is extremely difficult to offend me.

Well like I said, I don't know that much about you, Hal. However, I will say that, based on what I've seen from you so far on these forums, my opinion is positive. You seem like a reasonable person and a good listener (which is very important to me). I'll bet you're a libertarian too. Basically, you come off to me as a somewhat geekier, and perhaps slightly more conservative, version of XL. :tongue:


In the end, though, even though I'm a terrible flirt, I'm only concerned with how one person views me sexually, as my future wife (if I even get one) is the only one that really matters in that regard.

Aaww, that's sweet! :smiley:

Anyway, I wasn't talking about any direct comparisons, but just the intrinsic problems with sexual objectification. Feminists (including me) mostly talk about it in gender terms because it's mostly applied along gender lines, but the question of whether or not to pursue "equal opportunity sexualization" is one of those longstanding divides between the so-called sex-positive feminists and the sex-negative ones like me. (The difference between the two being that the former feels that it is the role of society to actively promote sexuality rather than maintaining a neutral position on the subject.) I don't really believe that equal opportunity sexualization is even possible or would ever happen, but on a deeper level, even if it did, that wouldn't be much improvement in my opinion because there's a dehumanizing principle behind the whole idea of legitimizing and supporting objectification of any kind, including sexual objectification. Dehumanizing people, including men, is intrinsically contrary to the promotion of underrepresented of values associated with women in society; namely empathy. So I feel that if we're serious about feminism, we have to oppose all forms of objectification, including when it's applied to men. There may not be many films like it in the grand scheme of things, but Magic Mike XXL isn't any less demeaning and dehumanizing than Entourage just because it sexualizes men instead of women.

If we spend threads debating the ideal dick length...well frankly, somebody's not going to "measure up" and will feel inferior by virtue of the way they were born. And, on a deeper level, we're saying that that's the definition of your worth.

Hal Jordan
02-04-2016, 01:10 AM
Well like I said, I don't know that much about you, Hal. However, I will say that, based on what I've seen from you so far on these forums, my opinion is positive. You seem like a reasonable person and a good listener (which is very important to me). I'll bet you're a libertarian too. Basically, you come off to me as a somewhat geekier, and perhaps slightly more conservative, version of XL. :tongue:

Well, I like to think of myself as reasonable. I definitely make an effort to understand both sides of an argument. I think Green Arrow can attest to my being a good listener. I suppose libertarian is a fair enough label for me. I'm definitely pretty geeky. I'd say it's a pretty fair assessment overall.


Anyway, I wasn't talking about any direct comparisons, but just the intrinsic problems with sexual objectification. Feminists (including me) mostly talk about it in gender terms because it's mostly applied along gender lines, but the question of whether or not to pursue "equal opportunity sexualization" is one of those longstanding divides between the so-called sex-positive feminists and the sex-negative ones like me. (The difference between the two being that the former feels that it is the role of society to actively promote sexuality rather than maintaining a neutral position on the subject.) I don't really believe that equal opportunity sexualization is even possible or would ever happen, but on a deeper level, even if it did, that wouldn't be much improvement in my opinion because there's a dehumanizing principle behind the whole idea of legitimizing and supporting objectification of any kind, including sexual objectification. Dehumanizing people, including men, is intrinsically contrary to the promotion of underrepresented of values associated with women in society; namely empathy. So I feel that if we're serious about feminism, we have to oppose all forms of objectification, including when it's applied to men. There may not be many films like it in the grand scheme of things, but Magic Mike XXL isn't any less demeaning and dehumanizing than Entourage just because it sexualizes men instead of women.

If we spend threads debating the ideal dick length...well frankly, somebody's not going to "measure up" and will feel inferior by virtue of the way they were born. And, on a deeper level, we're saying that that's the definition of your worth.

See, that's a major problem I have with(part of, at least) both sides of the feminism argument. Both sides want supremacy. I suppose that's natural, though. We all want to think we're better than everyone else. I think it's possible to acknowledge differences (as every single human being is different) without trying to be superior. I view myself as no better than anyone else, and worse than many. I have plenty of issues of my own. To be honest, I have issues with hating myself. Honestly, a lot of that is due to unrealistic standards. I was never all that strong, and I couldn't have the hand-eye coordination to be able to play sports. I grew up as the skinny geek when that was something to be hated (other students threatened me with a gun in hand when I was in middle school). Now I have issues with gout (and the broken arm, which I'm still dealing with and doesn't help that), which serves to make me feel useless at times. And I've shared more than I probably should there, but I'm not deleting it.

The Xl
02-04-2016, 01:23 AM
Hell, I'd be all for that. Especially with pictures.

I don't know if we need to go that far, but the discussion itself would be funny as hell to me.

The Xl
02-04-2016, 02:28 AM
A couple of times in the past, but not lately, no. I wasn't more broadly trying to suggest that PF is anything like VG Chartz or anything like that either. We don't (to my knowledge anyway) have issues in regards to illegal forms of retaliation here anymore and haven't for a long time. Rather, it's that we've had these sorts of conversations before here in this forum and it usually winds up with people ganging up on me, which, and I hope this doesn't seem hyper-sensitive or anything, but it just makes me feel very alone. It would be unreasonable to ask people to change their opinions just because of how I feel about them, so I can't do that. But sexual objectification is a sensitive topic everywhere, I find, and I don't want to risk losing friends like XL and Green Arrow by addressing it, given what my position is (opposed) and how unpopular that position is. Or at least how I unpopular I thought it was anyway. At the same time though, especially when I'm mentioned by name, I feel morally obliged to, for the sake of other women who may be intimidated by the general tone, say something when the subject comes up or seems pertinent to the present situation. I just don't want to lose friends as a result, so there's a conflict that goes on in my mind, in connection to which I found the positive reception of my earlier remarks unexpected and reassuring and just wanted to thank everyone for that. That's all.



I see that more fully now vis-a-vis this community writ large. And I should also apologize to you for not responding to your message requesting an interview for your project on sexism in geek culture a long time ago because that was rude. It was a more sensitive subject for me at the time because I was dealing with some pretty serious (by which I mean privacy and safety oriented) concerns and didn't want to discuss that sort of thing with someone I didn't really know. I didn't know how to say that without it coming off the wrong way (like "I think you might be X sort of person" or something), so I chickened out. Not your fault, and I kind of feel kind of bad for not having accepted your request or said anything in reply. I apologize!



Do I really come off as that sort of person to you? :wink:

I'm not a shallow person. I'd be lying if I said that a man's appearance means absolutely nothing to me, but there are other things that matter more. Besides that, I know that, no matter what you guys may say to look tough or cool or even just simply fair, there's a level on which you're not being completely truthful when you say it wouldn't bother you at all to be sexually compared to others in a negative way, either directly or by implication, because it's very personal. That's simply human.



Well you're a special case, GA. You have a "vested interest" in sexual objectification of all kinds. :wink:

I'm not going to stop being someone's friend because of a difference in opinion, especially on a matter like this. So if you're worried about that, don't be, at least when in regards to me.

You should never be afraid to speak your mind and say how you feel.

The Xl
02-04-2016, 02:36 AM
Seriously though, I'm not sure what my opinion on this issue is. I'm kinda a purist and don't want the characters changed too much, but Tifas breasts were certainly rather large and could wind up distracting people from paying attention to her character. So I can see the argument for bringing them down a notch.

IMPress Polly
02-06-2016, 11:58 AM
Hal Jordan wrote:
See, that's a major problem I have with(part of, at least) both sides of the feminism argument. Both sides want supremacy. I suppose that's natural, though. We all want to think we're better than everyone else. I think it's possible to acknowledge differences (as every single human being is different) without trying to be superior. I view myself as no better than anyone else, and worse than many.

I might be misreading these remarks, but my impression is that you may be misunderstanding what feminism is. It seems to be very commonplace for people to hear the term "feminism" and think it means female supremacy, but that's not the case at all. You can look it up in any dictionary or encyclopedia (online or off) and you'll find they all agree that feminism refers to the struggle to realize equal treatment for women, not special treatment. The 'feminine' aspect of that comes simply from the realization that the world is presently patriarchal (i.e. broadly gives special treatment to men socially, economically, politically, and culturally).

For me, feminism is personal, but also very much a logical part of my broader, egalitarian worldview that also impacts how I see issues related to class, race, sexual orientation, the relationship between people and nature, etc. I wasn't always a feminist either. I used to think feminists were very annoying, nitpicky people like I think many people do on first glance. But I also didn't have much sense of self-worth or self-respect back then.

Or alternately, by "both sides of the feminism argument" you could've been saying that there's no need to choose sides in the sex-positive / sex-negative debate, in which case everything I just said was pointless. :tongue:


To be honest, I have issues with hating myself. Honestly, a lot of that is due to unrealistic standards. I was never all that strong, and I couldn't have the hand-eye coordination to be able to play sports. I grew up as the skinny geek when that was something to be hated (other students threatened me with a gun in hand when I was in middle school). Now I have issues with gout (and the broken arm, which I'm still dealing with and doesn't help that), which serves to make me feel useless at times. And I've shared more than I probably should there, but I'm not deleting it.

Being open about that sort of thing is fine by me. I know I've shared some of my own personal problems before ranging from things that happened in my past to my ongoing struggles with clinical depression and occasional suicidal thoughts. I find it difficult, but also cleansing, to talk about those things from time to time. In that sense, I know how you feel.


The XL wrote:
I'm not going to stop being someone's friend because of a difference in opinion, especially on a matter like this. So if you're worried about that, don't be, at least when in regards to me.

You should never be afraid to speak your mind and say how you feel.

Okay, I'm glad to hear that! :smiley:


Seriously though, I'm not sure what my opinion on this issue is. I'm kinda a purist and don't want the characters changed too much, but Tifas breasts were certainly rather large and could wind up distracting people from paying attention to her character. So I can see the argument for bringing them down a notch.

I used to be very much a purist about localization too. Now I do a lot of cherry-picking.

Back in the day when it was just coming out here in the U.S., I very much wanted Saban and FUNimation to leave Dragon Ball Z alone in terms of localization because that was one of most heavily altered shows that came from Japan and a lot of the changes that were originally made I still feel were ridiculous, like for example changing the lettering on the shirts of a pair of demons to read HFIL instead of HELL for fear that using the term "hell" would be religiously insensitive. Therefore they whited out some of the lines to get HFIL and imagined this as an acronym for "Home For Infinite Losers". I thought that was pathetically hyper-sensitive. :tongue: But the change I felt most strongly about was editing out the blood, often by whiting out the coloration such as to make it appear as spit or sweat. It's not that I have the bloodlust that I suppose some fans probably did or do (after all, we'd be kidding ourselves to suggest that the violence in DBZ isn't largely stylized); it's that eliminating the blood doesn't eliminate or reduce the violence, but rather the consequences. We in this country pride ourselves on posturing as averse to showing violent content to children like this, but what we're really doing is just trivializing it. You know, it's the Looney Tunes and Tom & Jerry logic: the same level of violence is found throughout American children's animation, but we feel that by eliminating the consequences, we're somehow shielding children rather than teaching them the violence is no big deal. We disingenuously convince ourselves of our moral superiority in these sorts of ways. So I've always felt strongly about leaving the blood in. And likewise about leaving in at least some of the swearing. It's very much related to trivializing the consequences of violence oftentimes. Even the target audience of 8 to 14-year-old boys knows that shen somebody just got their arm ripped off, they're not going to yell "DAAAAARRRNN IT!!!". Even they know a stronger term goes there.

At the same time though, I do cherry pick a little because people often argue that things like boob size sliders and bikini costumes for like 13-year-old female characters in games designed to be played by adults (Xenoblade Chronicles X being one recent example) should be left in place by the localization departments based upon the contention that not to leave everything intact would be to disrespect Japanese culture. Yet I must contend that Japanese culture does not always respect girls or women. It's a more patriarchal society where women are still expected to quit their jobs when they get married or become pregnant, for example. Respect is a two-way street in my book, to which end I don't think there's anything sacred about boob size sliders that necessarily needs to make it through Western localization processes.

Chris
02-06-2016, 01:10 PM
I might be misreading these remarks, but my impression is that you may be misunderstanding what feminism is. It seems to be very commonplace for people to hear the term "feminism" and think it means female supremacy, but that's not the case at all. You can look it up in any dictionary or encyclopedia (online or off) and you'll find they all agree that feminism refers to the struggle to realize equal treatment for women, not special treatment

So feminists want women to be men.

That's sad, really.

Be yourselves.

IMPress Polly
02-06-2016, 07:54 PM
Yeah. Yeah that's EXACTLY what I said, Chris. :rollseyes: Go to hell.

Hal Jordan
02-06-2016, 08:10 PM
I might be misreading these remarks, but my impression is that you may be misunderstanding what feminism is. It seems to be very commonplace for people to hear the term "feminism" and think it means female supremacy, but that's not the case at all. You can look it up in any dictionary or encyclopedia (online or off) and you'll find they all agree that feminism refers to the struggle to realize equal treatment for women, not special treatment. The 'feminine' aspect of that comes simply from the realization that the world is presently patriarchal (i.e. broadly gives special treatment to men socially, economically, politically, and culturally).

For me, feminism is personal, but also very much a logical part of my broader, egalitarian worldview that also impacts how I see issues related to class, race, sexual orientation, the relationship between people and nature, etc. I wasn't always a feminist either. I used to think feminists were very annoying, nitpicky people like I think many people do on first glance. But I also didn't have much sense of self-worth or self-respect back then.

Or alternately, by "both sides of the feminism argument" you could've been saying that there's no need to choose sides in the sex-positive / sex-negative debate, in which case everything I just said was pointless. :tongue:

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't speaking of the whole, or what it is supposed to be. I was more referring to those who claim to speak in the name of feminism and against it. In particular, I was talking about those that do fight for supremacy. That's why I said "part of, at least" in parentheses.


Being open about that sort of thing is fine by me. I know I've shared some of my own personal problems before ranging from things that happened in my past to my ongoing struggles with clinical depression and occasional suicidal thoughts. I find it difficult, but also cleansing, to talk about those things from time to time. In that sense, I know how you feel.

Oh, I understand depression and suicidal thoughts all too well.

Dr. Who
02-06-2016, 08:10 PM
So feminists want women to be men.

That's sad, really.

Be yourselves.
She didn't say she wanted women to be men, only that they are recognized as equals. That means not having female roles dictated by men. Women can choose their own roles in society and that may or may not mean being a mother, just as some men choose not to be fathers. Women should no more be slaves to their biology than men. If a woman wants to be a mother and stay at home rearing children that is her choice, no one elses, but if she wants a different life, it is not for anyone else to suggest that she is betraying her biology.

Hal Jordan
02-06-2016, 08:11 PM
So feminists want women to be men.

That's sad, really.

Be yourselves.

You can't have actual equality without recognizing differences. That's something a lot of people either can't or refuse to see.

IMPress Polly
02-07-2016, 03:09 PM
Hal Jordan wrote:
I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't speaking of the whole, or what it is supposed to be. I was more referring to those who claim to speak in the name of feminism and against it. In particular, I was talking about those that do fight for supremacy. That's why I said "part of, at least" in parentheses.

Well aside from such scholars in women's studies as the likes of the Olsen twins and some of the regulars on The View, I'm not sure there are any real misandrists (man-haters) in the women's movement, and frankly I don't think most feminists really count those types as being authentically among our ranks. The feminist movement is hardly the logical inverse of Return of Kings.


Oh, I understand depression and suicidal thoughts all too well.

I'm sorry to hear that. :sad:


You can't have actual equality without recognizing differences. That's something a lot of people either can't or refuse to see.

This is well-put. For example, not to be indelicate, but I think it's fairly obvious that equal treatment of men and women objectively requires that women have larger restrooms for reasons I need not explain. Likewise, only women can become impregnated and thus does bodily autonomy mean something somewhat different for women than it does for men. However, it's worth pointing out that most of the intrinsic differences between men and women are medical ones, not ones that significantly affect one's behavioral patterns or abilities. Since we're talking about video games here, I could, for example, highlight that controlled studies have revealed that genre preferences don't naturally break down along gender lines at all; that, when you screen out all external factors, women and men exhibit no difference in game genre preferences. Therefore, all gender differences in sales data reflect things like gender-based social engineering and different social status of men and women because they wouldn't naturally exist.


Dr. Who wrote:
She didn't say she wanted women to be men, only that they are recognized as equals. That means not having female roles dictated by men. Women can choose their own roles in society and that may or may not mean being a mother, just as some men choose not to be fathers. Women should no more be slaves to their biology than men. If a woman wants to be a mother and stay at home rearing children that is her choice, no one elses, but if she wants a different life, it is not for anyone else to suggest that she is betraying her biology.

I agree. That reflects what I see in anti-feminist men. In my mind, the anti-feminist man is one who is either ignorant or who fears authenticity in women (and often in men as well, I might add); one who needs a doormat to feel better about himself.

The Xl
02-07-2016, 04:34 PM
I might be misreading these remarks, but my impression is that you may be misunderstanding what feminism is. It seems to be very commonplace for people to hear the term "feminism" and think it means female supremacy, but that's not the case at all. You can look it up in any dictionary or encyclopedia (online or off) and you'll find they all agree that feminism refers to the struggle to realize equal treatment for women, not special treatment. The 'feminine' aspect of that comes simply from the realization that the world is presently patriarchal (i.e. broadly gives special treatment to men socially, economically, politically, and culturally).

For me, feminism is personal, but also very much a logical part of my broader, egalitarian worldview that also impacts how I see issues related to class, race, sexual orientation, the relationship between people and nature, etc. I wasn't always a feminist either. I used to think feminists were very annoying, nitpicky people like I think many people do on first glance. But I also didn't have much sense of self-worth or self-respect back then.

Or alternately, by "both sides of the feminism argument" you could've been saying that there's no need to choose sides in the sex-positive / sex-negative debate, in which case everything I just said was pointless. :tongue:



Being open about that sort of thing is fine by me. I know I've shared some of my own personal problems before ranging from things that happened in my past to my ongoing struggles with clinical depression and occasional suicidal thoughts. I find it difficult, but also cleansing, to talk about those things from time to time. In that sense, I know how you feel.



Okay, I'm glad to hear that! :smiley:



I used to be very much a purist about localization too. Now I do a lot of cherry-picking.

Back in the day when it was just coming out here in the U.S., I very much wanted Saban and FUNimation to leave Dragon Ball Z alone in terms of localization because that was one of most heavily altered shows that came from Japan and a lot of the changes that were originally made I still feel were ridiculous, like for example changing the lettering on the shirts of a pair of demons to read HFIL instead of HELL for fear that using the term "hell" would be religiously insensitive. Therefore they whited out some of the lines to get HFIL and imagined this as an acronym for "Home For Infinite Losers". I thought that was pathetically hyper-sensitive. :tongue: But the change I felt most strongly about was editing out the blood, often by whiting out the coloration such as to make it appear as spit or sweat. It's not that I have the bloodlust that I suppose some fans probably did or do (after all, we'd be kidding ourselves to suggest that the violence in DBZ isn't largely stylized); it's that eliminating the blood doesn't eliminate or reduce the violence, but rather the consequences. We in this country pride ourselves on posturing as averse to showing violent content to children like this, but what we're really doing is just trivializing it. You know, it's the Looney Tunes and Tom & Jerry logic: the same level of violence is found throughout American children's animation, but we feel that by eliminating the consequences, we're somehow shielding children rather than teaching them the violence is no big deal. We disingenuously convince ourselves of our moral superiority in these sorts of ways. So I've always felt strongly about leaving the blood in. And likewise about leaving in at least some of the swearing. It's very much related to trivializing the consequences of violence oftentimes. Even the target audience of 8 to 14-year-old boys knows that shen somebody just got their arm ripped off, they're not going to yell "DAAAAARRRNN IT!!!". Even they know a stronger term goes there.

At the same time though, I do cherry pick a little because people often argue that things like boob size sliders and bikini costumes for like 13-year-old female characters in games designed to be played by adults (Xenoblade Chronicles X being one recent example) should be left in place by the localization departments based upon the contention that not to leave everything intact would be to disrespect Japanese culture. Yet I must contend that Japanese culture does not always respect girls or women. It's a more patriarchal society where women are still expected to quit their jobs when they get married or become pregnant, for example. Respect is a two-way street in my book, to which end I don't think there's anything sacred about boob size sliders that necessarily needs to make it through Western localization processes.

ugh, I hated funimations censorship of DBZ. Had me buying Japanese tape recording subs real quick.

I get not wanting Tifa having huge tits. I might be a touch distracted and disturbed if Cloud or Barrets nuts were hanging out or something, lol. I suppose this would be the female equivalent of that sentiment.

exotix
02-07-2016, 05:32 PM
http://i66.tinypic.com/dd1iyd.jpg