Mein Kampf

[Green Arrow]

I recently bought a copy of Mein Kampf - I've read it before, but now I want to do sort of a read-through on the forum of it.

Upon reading both that I bought a copy of Mein Kampf and want to do a study of it on the forum, most rational people start to get uncomfortable, and rightfully so, so I feel I must be clear on something before this starts: This will not be a pro-Hitler study. I myself am a firm follower of Judaism, and I find the man and his ideas repugnant. The point is rather to shine a light on the darkness of Hitler's mind. To quote Abraham Foxman, who wrote the introduction to my copy of Mein Kampf (the quote itself from that introduction):


...Better not to make it widely available, some say, to keep it out of the hands of those who would revive the movement its author started.

This argument deserves serious consideration, and has been accepted by many European governments which regulate the production and dissemination of Nazi materials in a variety of ways. The Bavarian Finance Ministry holds the continental European copyright to Mein Kampf, and routinely denies requests by authors to quote extended passages from it and by publishers to reprint it. Many European countries restrict the sale of existing copies to qualified academics. In December 2000, a Czech court issued a $50,000 fine to the publisher of an illegal Czech-language edition.

These measures may seem extreme to many Americans; we cherish our First Amendment rights and find censorship anathema. But let us not forget that in the United States we have been blessed with two centuries of secure borders and political stability. Not so our European counterparts, who have experienced Nazism and other destructive social movements on their own soil. Their efforts to control their legacy of extremism should be respected, even if their methods are not ours.

Mein Kampf presents a deeper problem, though, unrelated to such practical concerns as controlling extremism. It evokes discomfort and distaste, a desire to cover up its crude evil and let it recede from our consciousness. When we encounter things of beauty, it is natural to want to display them; here the tendency is reversed and the desire is to blot out this work of ugliness and depravity.

We should not let ourselves succumb to this temptation. "Expunge the memory of Amalek from beneath the heavens," the Bible says, referring to one of Israel's ancient enemies; but the verse itself spread the memory of those malicious people throughout the world and preserved it for all time. Thus we learn the need for prudence. "Zakhor," we are taught, "Remember" - not just the victims but the evil that was done to them. Commit the evil to memory in order to reject it; reject the evil, but do not let yourself forget it. Zakhor, and so we keep the Nazi bible in print.

...

Here in the pages of Mein Kampf Hitler presented the world with his dark vision for the future. Years would pass before he attained the power to realize that vision, but Mein Kampf's existence denies the free world the excuse of ignorance. We dismissed him as a madman and we ignored his wretched book; the result was a tragedy of unprecedented proportions. This is yet another lesson to take from Mein Kampf: the lesson of vigilance and responsibility, of not closing our eyes to the evil around us. Since World War II, our societies have taken promising steps in this regard. It is our responsibility to ensure the continued progress of that civilizing trend.

This is why I made this a tPF thread. Any neo-Nazis that want to come out of the shadows and try posting propaganda as a result of this thread will be crushed swiftly. This will not become a pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi thread.

[Hal Jordan]

I recently bought a copy of Mein Kampf - I've read it before, but now I want to do sort of a read-through on the forum of it.

Upon reading both that I bought a copy of Mein Kampf and want to do a study of it on the forum, most rational people start to get uncomfortable, and rightfully so, so I feel I must be clear on something before this starts: This will not be a pro-Hitler study. I myself am a firm follower of Judaism, and I find the man and his ideas repugnant. The point is rather to shine a light on the darkness of Hitler's mind. To quote Abraham Foxman, who wrote the introduction to my copy of Mein Kampf (the quote itself from that introduction):



This is why I made this a tPF thread. Any neo-Nazis that want to come out of the shadows and try posting propaganda as a result of this thread will be crushed swiftly. This will not become a pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi thread.

I haven't read this yet, but I will at some point. Subjecting ourselves to ideas that we disagree with is not only a good thing, but a vital thing. I have a friend that has a copy. Mayhaps I will be able to borrow it in order to go through it as well.

[Green Arrow]

I haven't read this yet, but I will at some point. Subjecting ourselves to ideas that we disagree with is not only a good thing, but a vital thing. I have a friend that has a copy. Mayhaps I will be able to borrow it in order to go through it as well.

I think the friend would be willing to loan you his copy :tongue:

[Hal Jordan]

I think the friend would be willing to loan you his copy :tongue:

I was meaning a different friend. I know you would be willing to. I was interested in going through it together, though. :tongue:

[Bethere]

I haven't read this yet, but I will at some point. Subjecting ourselves to ideas that we disagree with is not only a good thing, but a vital thing. I have a friend that has a copy. Mayhaps I will be able to borrow it in order to go through it as well.

Free copy:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.greatwar.nl/books/meinkampf/meinkampf.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi8oazJ7LjPAhXFOCYKHb13AWUQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNFVeAKhY1w-h_hTb5SQ6C-KSYuoGg

[Hal Jordan]

Free copy:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.greatwar.nl/books/meinkampf/meinkampf.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi8oazJ7LjPAhXFOCYKHb13AWUQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNFVeAKhY1w-h_hTb5SQ6C-KSYuoGg

I much prefer a physical copy, but this is a valuable resource. Thank you.

[Bethere]

I much prefer a physical copy, but this is a valuable resource. Thank you.Be the first on your block to actually read it. It's lengthy and it isn't written well. Struggle through it and let me know what you think.There is a new, legal, german edition for the first time ever. It is totally annotated to appease those who would ban it. This, of course is not it. As for me? I am not a book burner, but if forced to burn books I would start with this one.

[Green Arrow]

Be the first on your block to actually read it. It's lengthy and it isn't written well. Struggle through it and let me know what you think.There is a new, legal, german edition for the first time ever. It is totally annotated to appease those who would ban it. This, of course is not it. As for me? I am not a book burner, but if forced to burn books I would start with this one.

That's a sentiment I would agree with.

[Ethereal]

People don't bat an eye when the history of the Roman empire is discussed. Many people even glory in the legacy of the Roman empire and most people don't seem to mind that either. But the Roman empire was every bit as evil as the Nazis, if not more so. They conquered and enslaved millions and slaughtered millions more. Their public entertainment was as grisly and bloody as anything. And their ruling classes gave new meaning to the words greed and avarice. The only reason why people are so uncomfortable with the Nazis is not because of the crimes they committed, but because they're told to be uncomfortable by the modern ruling classes. Simply put, it's pure conformism and sheepishness and has little if any intellectual or moral basis.

[Green Arrow]

People don't bat an eye when the history of the Roman empire is discussed. Many people even glory in the legacy of the Roman empire and most people don't seem to mind that either. But the Roman empire was every bit as evil as the Nazis, if not more so. They conquered and enslaved millions and slaughtered millions more. Their public entertainment was as grisly and bloody as anything. And their ruling classes gave new meaning to the words greed and avarice. The only reason why people are so uncomfortable with the Nazis is not because of the crimes they committed, but because they're told to be uncomfortable by the modern ruling classes. Simply put, it's pure conformism and sheepishness and has little if any intellectual or moral basis.

I can acknowledge the good that came out of the Roman Empire without thinking the empire itself was 100% good, but that's a debate for another time.

[FindersKeepers]

I recently bought a copy of Mein Kampf - I've read it before, but now I want to do sort of a read-through on the forum of it.

Upon reading both that I bought a copy of Mein Kampf and want to do a study of it on the forum, most rational people start to get uncomfortable, and rightfully so, so I feel I must be clear on something before this starts: This will not be a pro-Hitler study. I myself am a firm follower of Judaism, and I find the man and his ideas repugnant. The point is rather to shine a light on the darkness of Hitler's mind. To quote Abraham Foxman, who wrote the introduction to my copy of Mein Kampf (the quote itself from that introduction):



This is why I made this a tPF thread. Any neo-Nazis that want to come out of the shadows and try posting propaganda as a result of this thread will be crushed swiftly. This will not become a pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi thread.


I've not read it -- and I can't say that I ever will -- but I understand your desire to see what drove the monster.

One does not become a monster out of the womb. It takes time, external influence, a desire for power and a narrow-minded predilection to see only one way -- your way.

I'm not sure that you'll find the answers you seek in Mein Kampf, but I wish you luck. He wrote that early-on, when his political ambitions and his "solution" were not yet formed in his troubled psyche.

He wrote a second book just before he rose to power, and while I haven't read that one either, I wonder if it would reveal a change in the man's thinking. I heard not long ago that the second book had been published.

I'd be open to discussing little bits you find to be of interest, however.

[Green Arrow]

I've not read it -- and I can't say that I ever will -- but I understand your desire to see what drove the monster.

One does not become a monster out of the womb. It takes time, external influence, a desire for power and a narrow-minded predilection to see only one way -- your way.

I'm not sure that you'll find the answers you seek in Mein Kampf, but I wish you luck. He wrote that early-on, when his political ambitions and his "solution" were not yet formed in his troubled psyche.

He wrote a second book just before he rose to power, and while I haven't read that one either, I wonder if it would reveal a change in the man's thinking. I heard not long ago that the second book had been published.

I'd be open to discussing little bits you find to be of interest, however.

Are you referring to Zweites Buch, written in 1924?

[Adelaide]

People don't bat an eye when the history of the Roman empire is discussed. Many people even glory in the legacy of the Roman empire and most people don't seem to mind that either. But the Roman empire was every bit as evil as the Nazis, if not more so. They conquered and enslaved millions and slaughtered millions more. Their public entertainment was as grisly and bloody as anything. And their ruling classes gave new meaning to the words greed and avarice. The only reason why people are so uncomfortable with the Nazis is not because of the crimes they committed, but because they're told to be uncomfortable by the modern ruling classes. Simply put, it's pure conformism and sheepishness and has little if any intellectual or moral basis.

Time can heal a lot of wounds. I don't think society is there yet with regards to leaders like Hitler and Stalin, and the actions they took.

[Adelaide]

It would be interesting to read an original German copy. Books always lose something after translation.

[Green Arrow]

It would be interesting to read an original German copy. Books always lose something after translation.

I've been trying to learn German when I can find the time. Mostly because it's a beautiful country with a beautiful culture and a beautiful language, but also so I can read German works (such as Mein Kampf) in the original language.

[Peter1469]

I've been trying to learn German when I can find the time. Mostly because it's a beautiful country with a beautiful culture and a beautiful language, but also so I can read German works (such as Mein Kampf) in the original language.

My ancestry is Prussian, but I prefer Italy, Spain and France to Germany.

[DGUtley]

I have read it twice. I read it once in college and then once when I got out of school. I truly believe in the old adage and if we don't study history we are condemned to repeat it.

[Adelaide]

I've been trying to learn German when I can find the time. Mostly because it's a beautiful country with a beautiful culture and a beautiful language, but also so I can read German works (such as Mein Kampf) in the original language.

You can apply to universities as a non-degree student and study languages specifically. It's nearly impossible to learn a language without some formal education. I taught myself basic Russian when I was 13 but I still can only read and write a minimal amount because the Cyrillic alphabet is something that basically has to be formally taught. German is admittedly easier than Russian because the alphabet is nearly the same (other than the umlauts and scharfes S). Most people don't know how or when to use umlauts. Boehner is actually Böhner, for example - umlauts when anglicized become oe, ue, ae, and scharfes S usually becomes ss or sz, I think (the scharfes S is a complicated letter). Also German has a lot in common with English, especially in terms of words that arose following the industrial revolution - car is auto, telephone is telefon, so forth.

It really is a beautiful language, though. Unless you're being yelled at, in which case it is a terrifying language and you think you're about to be murdered.

[FindersKeepers]

Are you referring to Zweites Buch, written in 1924?

Perhaps it's called that somewhere, but this is the one I was referring to:

https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Second-Book-Unpublished-Sequel/dp/1929631618

It's just titled "Hitler's Second Book" and the English translation was not published until 2006.


From Publishers Weekly In 1958, while directing the microfilming and organization of a trove of archives that the U.S. forces had taken from the Nazis at the end of WWII, historian Weinberg (A World at Arms) discovered the manuscript of a second book that Hitler had written but never published. The manuscript was published in German in 1961, accompanied by Weinberg's annotations, but this is the first authoritative English version (a pirated and poor translation appeared in the 1960s). The text bears all of Hitler's hallmarks: rambling thoughts, half-baked ideas, pedantic writing-along with a terrifying, sustained belief in war and violence as the means to ensure that Germans would flourish. Compared to Mein Kampf, there are fewer pages devoted to Jews. Nonetheless, what comes across most strongly is Hitler's abiding commitment to the principle of race and his identification of Jews as the enemy that threatened to undo all that Germans had created. Hitler dwells at length on foreign policy, and outlines a strategy of alliance with Fascist Italy and Great Britain. (He actually believed that Britain would accept a German-dominated European continent so long as Germany did not challenge the overseas British empire.) He also foresees an inevitable clash with the United States. This provides solid historical background on Hitler's thinking in the late 1920s, when his party was nothing more than a tiny, radical sect. Weinberg provides helpful notes and a very informative introduction.

After I heard this was published, posthumously, I wondered if it would reveal a change in the man that would allow us to see "red flags." It's always easier, in retrospect, to pick out those things. It's just too bad we don't have a crystal ball so we can stop something so horrific from ever happening.

[FindersKeepers]

I've been trying to learn German when I can find the time. Mostly because it's a beautiful country with a beautiful culture and a beautiful language, but also so I can read German works (such as Mein Kampf) in the original language.

That's quite an undertaking but a very admirable one.

[Private Pickle]

You can apply to universities as a non-degree student and study languages specifically. It's nearly impossible to learn a language without some formal education. I taught myself basic Russian when I was 13 but I still can only read and write a minimal amount because the Cyrillic alphabet is something that basically has to be formally taught. German is admittedly easier than Russian because the alphabet is nearly the same (other than the umlauts and scharfes S). Most people don't know how or when to use umlauts. Boehner is actually Böhner, for example - umlauts when anglicized become oe, ue, ae, and scharfes S usually becomes ss or sz, I think (the scharfes S is a complicated letter). Also German has a lot in common with English, especially in terms of words that arose following the industrial revolution - car is auto, telephone is telefon, so forth.

It really is a beautiful language, though. Unless you're being yelled at, in which case it is a terrifying language and you think you're about to be murdered.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ezrJHau7dzU

[Mister D]

Green Arrow I'd love to the turd in the punch bowl. Let me know when you are ready to begin.

[Mister D]

People don't bat an eye when the history of the Roman empire is discussed. Many people even glory in the legacy of the Roman empire and most people don't seem to mind that either. But the Roman empire was every bit as evil as the Nazis, if not more so. They conquered and enslaved millions and slaughtered millions more. Their public entertainment was as grisly and bloody as anything. And their ruling classes gave new meaning to the words greed and avarice. The only reason why people are so uncomfortable with the Nazis is not because of the crimes they committed, but because they're told to be uncomfortable by the modern ruling classes. Simply put, it's pure conformism and sheepishness and has little if any intellectual or moral basis.

I disagree about the Roman Empire but we've discussed that before. I do agree with the rest. A more apt analogy, IMO, would be one between our attitudes toward Nazism and communism.

[Mini Me]

I haven't read this yet, but I will at some point. Subjecting ourselves to ideas that we disagree with is not only a good thing, but a vital thing. I have a friend that has a copy. Mayhaps I will be able to borrow it in order to go through it as well.
Read Hitler's "Table Talk" Its on line!

[Mini Me]

Be the first on your block to actually read it. It's lengthy and it isn't written well. Struggle through it and let me know what you think.There is a new, legal, german edition for the first time ever. It is totally annotated to appease those who would ban it. This, of course is not it. As for me? I am not a book burner, but if forced to burn books I would start with this one.

I visited the GW Bush library the other day;

The shelves inside are barren, but there is a huge pile of ashes out back!

[Mini Me]

People don't bat an eye when the history of the Roman empire is discussed. Many people even glory in the legacy of the Roman empire and most people don't seem to mind that either. But the Roman empire was every bit as evil as the Nazis, if not more so. They conquered and enslaved millions and slaughtered millions more. Their public entertainment was as grisly and bloody as anything. And their ruling classes gave new meaning to the words greed and avarice. The only reason why people are so uncomfortable with the Nazis is not because of the crimes they committed, but because they're told to be uncomfortable by the modern ruling classes. Simply put, it's pure conformism and sheepishness and has little if any intellectual or moral basis.
Mussolini adored the Romans, and sorta modeled his fascism on it!

[DGUtley]

I wouldn't read it. I wouldn't ban it, but I wouldn't let my children read it nor would I let it in my home. Y'know, thinking about it, I might ban it. Maybe. Possibly. There's a line. It's way out there. I've complained about one (1) post since I've been here. It was a vile anti-Semitic post that I asked a mod to remove. It was so so so vile, it crossed the line -- a line that I thought was universally recognized. To me, that book might be the one or two that is universally recognized. Like Bethere, I'm not a book burner, I'm a free-speecher, I might though.

[FindersKeepers]

I recently bought a copy of Mein Kampf - I've read it before, but now I want to do sort of a read-through on the forum of it.

Upon reading both that I bought a copy of Mein Kampf and want to do a study of it on the forum, most rational people start to get uncomfortable, and rightfully so, so I feel I must be clear on something before this starts: This will not be a pro-Hitler study. I myself am a firm follower of Judaism, and I find the man and his ideas repugnant. The point is rather to shine a light on the darkness of Hitler's mind. To quote Abraham Foxman, who wrote the introduction to my copy of Mein Kampf (the quote itself from that introduction):



This is why I made this a tPF thread. Any neo-Nazis that want to come out of the shadows and try posting propaganda as a result of this thread will be crushed swiftly. This will not become a pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi thread.

We read bits of it in Civics class in high school, but I never read the whole thing, and I don't remember much now. I have a copy somewhere I could try to dig out.

I remember the teacher trying to get past our sense of thinking the words were evil, but I struggled with that. I think I would be better about it now.
My thoughts are that you cannot avoid something by burying your head in the sand. To avoid a revival of Hitler's movement, in my opinion, requires understanding it and being able to accurately identify early signs.

Might be an interesting proposal. I'd be willing to try...a little.

[FindersKeepers]

I wouldn't read it. I wouldn't ban it, but I wouldn't let my children read it nor would I let it in my home. Y'know, thinking about it, I might ban it. Maybe. Possibly. There's a line. It's way out there. I've complained about one (1) post since I've been here. It was a vile anti-Semitic post that I asked a mod to remove. It was so so so vile, it crossed the line -- a line that I thought was universally recognized. To me, that book might be the one or two that is universally recognized. Like @Bethere (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1988), I'm not a book burner, I'm a free-speecher, I might though.

The problem as I see it with banning anything is that it creates a "forbidden" mystique, and folks (especially young folks) like nothing more than to figure out why something is forbidden. It's a lure.

[FindersKeepers]

For anyone who wants to study along -- I found it in the public domain -- hosted by Project Gutenberg.

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601.txt

[Standing Wolf]

I'm pretty sure I don't have a copy of 'Mein Kampf' at this time, but I do own a copy of David Duke's 'My Awakening'. I picked it up at a local thrift shop a few years ago for a couple of dollars, and thought it might be interesting to read the man's thinking first-hand, but at this point I seriously doubt that I will ever take the time to do that. The thing is...it's a signed copy, and I'm torn between just letting the thing take up shelf space or either selling it or donating it somewhere. If I put something like that on eBay - assuming they even accepted the listing - a lot of people would probably assume that I was promoting or endorsing Duke's ideas by selling the book. I could donate the thing to a charity thrift shop or book sale, but then you'd potentially have people going ballistic when they saw it there, or - worse - potentially have someone buy it, read it and have their beliefs reinforced by it.

A number of years ago, when John Wayne Gacy was still alive and in prison, I had an opportunity to buy a couple of his clown paintings for a really good price, and I almost did it. Glad now that I did not, because, if anything, divesting oneself of something like that would be even more problematic than having the signed Duke volume and not quite knowing what to do with it.

[DGUtley]

The problem as I see it with banning anything is that it creates a "forbidden" mystique, and folks (especially young folks) like nothing more than to figure out why something is forbidden. It's a lure.

I get it and I agree.

[Mister D]

I'm pretty sure I don't have a copy of 'Mein Kampf' at this time, but I do own a copy of David Duke's 'My Awakening'. I picked it up at a local thrift shop a few years ago for a couple of dollars, and thought it might be interesting to read the man's thinking first-hand, but at this point I seriously doubt that I will ever take the time to do that. The thing is...it's a signed copy, and I'm torn between just letting the thing take up shelf space or either selling it or donating it somewhere. If I put something like that on eBay - assuming they even accepted the listing - a lot of people would probably assume that I was promoting or endorsing Duke's ideas by selling the book. I could donate the thing to a charity thrift shop or book sale, but then you'd potentially have people going ballistic when they saw it there, or - worse - potentially have someone buy it, read it and have their beliefs reinforced by it.

A number of years ago, when John Wayne Gacy was still alive and in prison, I had an opportunity to buy a couple of his clown paintings for a really good price, and I almost did it. Glad now that I did not, because, if anything, divesting oneself of something like that would be even more problematic than having the signed Duke volume and not quite knowing what to do with it.

Hitler had interesting insights into European history, the role of Jews and so on but it's not something you can't get elsewhere. I had a copy at one point but I don't know what happened to it.

[Cthulhu]

I can acknowledge the good that came out of the Roman Empire without thinking the empire itself was 100% good, but that's a debate for another time.
Good came out of the Nazis too - medical sciences and project paperclip.

It is what it is.

Fear profits a man nothing.

[Mister D]

Love me some Romans...

[Dr. Who]

I'm pretty sure I don't have a copy of 'Mein Kampf' at this time, but I do own a copy of David Duke's 'My Awakening'. I picked it up at a local thrift shop a few years ago for a couple of dollars, and thought it might be interesting to read the man's thinking first-hand, but at this point I seriously doubt that I will ever take the time to do that. The thing is...it's a signed copy, and I'm torn between just letting the thing take up shelf space or either selling it or donating it somewhere. If I put something like that on eBay - assuming they even accepted the listing - a lot of people would probably assume that I was promoting or endorsing Duke's ideas by selling the book. I could donate the thing to a charity thrift shop or book sale, but then you'd potentially have people going ballistic when they saw it there, or - worse - potentially have someone buy it, read it and have their beliefs reinforced by it.

A number of years ago, when John Wayne Gacy was still alive and in prison, I had an opportunity to buy a couple of his clown paintings for a really good price, and I almost did it. Glad now that I did not, because, if anything, divesting oneself of something like that would be even more problematic than having the signed Duke volume and not quite knowing what to do with it.
There are dealers in such material if you don't care that it is sold to someone espousing those views.

[Green Arrow]

I wouldn't read it. I wouldn't ban it, but I wouldn't let my children read it nor would I let it in my home. Y'know, thinking about it, I might ban it. Maybe. Possibly. There's a line. It's way out there. I've complained about one (1) post since I've been here. It was a vile anti-Semitic post that I asked a mod to remove. It was so so so vile, it crossed the line -- a line that I thought was universally recognized. To me, that book might be the one or two that is universally recognized. Like @Bethere (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1988), I'm not a book burner, I'm a free-speecher, I might though.

I read many books I find vile and that espouse views I find abhorrent. As I quoted in the OP, we mustn't hide such things away and refuse to be knowledgable about them, because that ensures it will happen again.

[Green Arrow]

Good came out of the Nazis too - medical sciences and project paperclip.

It is what it is.

Fear profits a man nothing.

"Project Paperclip" wasn't because of Nazi effort, though, it was the result of American subterfuge.

[FindersKeepers]

Hitler had interesting insights into European history, the role of Jews and so on but it's not something you can't get elsewhere. I had a copy at one point but I don't know what happened to it.

A lot of Hitler's reasoning was based on guys like Nietzsche and Martin Luther. You're right, there's nothing Hitler wrote that hasn't been written before or after and still exists in the academic world.

While I don't remember exactly what passages from Mein Kampf we studied in Civics, I remember the overall class attitude that even reading them was wrong. I, myself, adopted that same attitude until somewhat recently when it dawned on me that Hitler's writings are just words and that I should treat them as I do the words of anyone else...with a grain of salt.

Somewhere I have a hard copy, but now that I found the online text, I won't have to go dig it out of one of my many boxes of books. If GA is still interested, that is. I don't know that I'm up for reading the whole thing -- but, I'd read and comment on individual sections.

[DGUtley]

I read many books I find vile and that espouse views I find abhorrent. As I quoted in the OP, we mustn't hide such things away and refuse to be knowledgable about them, because that ensures it will happen again.
Agreed.

[Refugee]

An interesting thread, especially for a glimpse into mind-sets.
Why would people not read Mein Kamph, but have no trouble with The Comminist Manifesto?
Why would some be actually embarrased to hold a copy of Mein Kamph, or find it obnoxious, not even having read it? BTW, Hitler got most of his practical ideas from the early 20th US progressives.

Following this is a short six minute video. Watch it through because with increasing western censorship and political correctness, it won’t last long and try to put out of your mind everything you’ve been told by others. Remember that this is someone speaking from nearly a century ago.
While you’re watching think of Obama, the European Union, recessions, globalisation,no borders and masss immigration; in other words listen and watch and compare what is being said to today’s society. I’d say that’s more than just a lucky guess from the 1930’s?

Isn’t this what everyone complains about, but keeps voting in?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCNHaLziBQw

[Hal Jordan]

There are dealers in such material if you don't care that it is sold to someone espousing those views.

Based on my experience in the industry, it often goes the opposite way. There's a certain artist that makes art against slavery and racist issues that has bought a number of KKK written books and slavery documents (including slave sale certificates) from someone I work with.

[resister]

Based on my experience in the industry, it often goes the opposite way. There's a certain artist that makes art against slavery and racist issues that has bought a number of KKK written books and slavery documents (including slave sale certificates) from someone I work with.
I have seen antique handcuffs in the antique stores here that say negro women and children only, they turned my stomach!

[Standing Wolf]

Based on my experience in the industry, it often goes the opposite way. There's a certain artist that makes art against slavery and racist issues that has bought a number of KKK written books and slavery documents (including slave sale certificates) from someone I work with.

I'm sure the new National Museum of African American History and Culture has its share of such items. As for the individual reader or collector, I suspect that in many cases there is an element of somewhat morbid curiosity about it. Off and on over the years I've collected and read a lot of anti-Catholic, as well as anti-evolution material, from the mundane to the strange - certainly not because I believe or subscribe to any of it. I once loaned a Catholic priest of my acquaintance a copy of Anton LaVey's 'Satanic Bible', which he found very interesting.

[resister]

I'm sure the new National Museum of African American History and Culture has its share of such items. As for the individual reader or collector, I suspect that in many cases there is an element of somewhat morbid curiosity about it. Off and on over the years I've collected and read a lot of anti-Catholic, as well as anti-evolution material, from the mundane to the strange - certainly not because I believe or subscribe to any of it. I once loaned a Catholic priest of my acquaintance a copy of Anton LaVey's 'Satanic Bible', which he found very interesting.
I read that, a bunch of self serving crap, indulgence instead of abstinence etc...:rollseyes:

[Standing Wolf]

I read that, a bunch of self serving crap, indulgence instead of abstinence etc...:rollseyes:

Ayn Rand with chanting.

[resister]

Ayn Rand with chanting.
I prefer Alistair Crowley.

[AeonPax]

`

https://s14.postimg.org/kpnr0a8xt/mein_komfy_chair.jpg

[resister]

`

https://s14.postimg.org/kpnr0a8xt/mein_komfy_chair.jpg

Obamas chair!

[hotair]

I recently bought a copy of Mein Kampf - I've read it before, but now I want to do sort of a read-through on the forum of it.

Upon reading both that I bought a copy of Mein Kampf and want to do a study of it on the forum, most rational people start to get uncomfortable, and rightfully so, so I feel I must be clear on something before this starts: This will not be a pro-Hitler study. I myself am a firm follower of Judaism, and I find the man and his ideas repugnant. The point is rather to shine a light on the darkness of Hitler's mind. To quote Abraham Foxman, who wrote the introduction to my copy of Mein Kampf (the quote itself from that introduction):



This is why I made this a tPF thread. Any neo-Nazis that want to come out of the shadows and try posting propaganda as a result of this thread will be crushed swiftly. This will not become a pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi thread.

If you want “to shine a light on the darkness of Hitler's mind” then you are studying the book for the wrong reasons, and as such are very likely to miss everything about it that is worth studying.

In this book Hitler created modern Political Science. Study the book for what it is, and not just for what he says. Try to understand that everything that he had to say, was purely for political purpose.

Keep in mind that Hitler was not personally anti-Semitic, nor even anti-Jewish. He choose the Jews because they were politically convenient at that time.

His theories on the “ten percent solution” . . . . . His use of the popular scapegoat. At that time it was Jews, and today (well ok it is still Jews . . . however) the current use of “Islamic Extremists” and “Illegal Immigrants” are now the modern day ‘Jews & Communists’ of his time.

His repetitive use, and process of lies. Especially the so called ‘big lie” theory in practical application. The bigger the lie, the more people will be willing to accept it as truth. Keep repeating these lies until eventually they become an accepted truth in themselves.

But you should never loose sight of the historical fabric. No matter how well built a political fairyland becomes, eventually reality does put it all to an end, and the lies do all become exposed for what they are!

[Mister D]

I'm sorry but did someone really just say that Hitler was not an anti-Semite? This place...lol

[Mechanic]

Goering was the person in charge of scapegoating.

[Refugee]

I'm sorry but did someone really just say that Hitler was not an anti-Semite? This place...lol
I must be on ignore here :smiley:, or as you say ‘’this place’. My point is that people like to think they’re impartial and then use words such as ‘Nazi’ and ‘evil’ before they even start. Excusable only if the majority were able to grasp even the basics of that ideology. Let’s call it what it is, National Socialism (http://changemyworld.forumotion.com/t13-national-socialist-ideology).
Democracy is failing due to a lack of consensus and what the west has now is International Socialism; (spread the wealth around, you didn’t build that on your own) and a dumbing down by cultural Marxism, leading to progressivism (https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/progressivism-the-greatest-source-of-death-and-terror-in-the-twentieth-cent).

[Mister D]

I must be on ignore here :smiley:, or as you say ‘’this place’. My point is that people like to think they’re impartial and then use words such as ‘Nazi’ and ‘evil’ before they even start. Excusable only if the majority were able to grasp even the basics of that ideology. Let’s call it what it is, National Socialism (http://changemyworld.forumotion.com/t13-national-socialist-ideology).
Democracy is failing due to a lack of consensus and what the west has now is International Socialism; (spread the wealth around, you didn’t build that on your own) and a dumbing down by cultural Marxism, leading to progressivism (https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/progressivism-the-greatest-source-of-death-and-terror-in-the-twentieth-cent).

HI Refugee ! Glad to see you. My response was directed at hotair's comment. It's one of those things that leaves you wondering if it was just a prank.

I agree with you. "Nazi" and "fascist" have become synonymous with racism and few of our contemporaries have gotten beyond that. Nor do they care to, apparently.

[Mister D]

An interesting thread, especially for a glimpse into mind-sets.
Why would people not read Mein Kamph, but have no trouble with The Comminist Manifesto?
Why would some be actually embarrased to hold a copy of Mein Kamph, or find it obnoxious, not even having read it? BTW, Hitler got most of his practical ideas from the early 20th US progressives.

Following this is a short six minute video. Watch it through because with increasing western censorship and political correctness, it won’t last long and try to put out of your mind everything you’ve been told by others. Remember that this is someone speaking from nearly a century ago.
While you’re watching think of Obama, the European Union, recessions, globalisation,no borders and masss immigration; in other words listen and watch and compare what is being said to today’s society. I’d say that’s more than just a lucky guess from the 1930’s?

Isn’t this what everyone complains about, but keeps voting in?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCNHaLziBQw



You make a good point and one I have made myself in the past. Nazism is evil but communism, responsible for at least as much death, destruction and human misery as Nazism, is...something else.

[Refugee]

HI @Refugee (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1060) ! Glad to see you. My response was directed at hotair's comment. It's one of those things that leaves you wondering if it was just a prank. I agree with you. "Nazi" and "fascist" have become synonymous with racism and few of our contemporaries have gotten beyond that. Nor do they care to, apparently.
Hi Mr. D. Long time no see :smiley:

National Socialism simply acknowledges differences in societies and races, instead of trying to build cultureless and abstract equality based utopias. Nationalism is now considered a dirty world, so instead we have no borders, globalisation and mass immigration and how’s that working out? National Socialism assumes a natural order; family, religion, consensus norms . . . and if we start to dismantle the values that holds society together, we get the type of anarchy now occuring. (I read about another five dead and forty wounded in the latest London terrorist attack this morning).

So many are now indoctrinated into a belief system that reality flies over their heads and mass unemployment, food stamps and terrorism become the normal state of affairs. Of course the Jews come in for a hiding, yet it’s not racism to say that Jews predominently control the banking system, just as blacks are dominant in sports, or white western westerners excel in advances in science and technology. Mein Kampf, from a century ago and written in the long winded style of that era, simply points all that out and warns of the consequences. Sweden (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6697/sweden-collapse) – Venezuela (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/14/venezuela-a-failing-state) – Greece (http://dailysignal.com/2015/07/11/greece-disaster-shows-unavoidable-consequences-of-socialism/) . . .

[Mister D]

Hi Mr. D. Long time no see :smiley:

National Socialism simply acknowledges differences in societies and races, instead of trying to build cultureless and abstract equality based utopias. Nationalism is now considered a dirty world, so instead we have no borders, globalisation and mass immigration and how’s that working out? National Socialism assumes a natural order; family, religion, consensus norms . . . and if we start to dismantle the values that holds society together, we get the type of anarchy now occuring. (I read about another five dead and forty wounded in the latest London terrorist attack this morning).

So many are now indoctrinated into a belief system that reality flies over their heads and mass unemployment, food stamps and terrorism become the normal state of affairs. Of course the Jews come in for a hiding, yet it’s not racism to say that Jews predominently control the banking system, just as blacks are dominant in sports, or white western westerners excel in advances in science and technology. Mein Kampf, from a century ago and written in the long winded style of that era, simply points all that out and warns of the consequences. Sweden (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6697/sweden-collapse) – Venezuela (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/14/venezuela-a-failing-state) – Greece (http://dailysignal.com/2015/07/11/greece-disaster-shows-unavoidable-consequences-of-socialism/) . . .



National Socialism will continue to be viewed through the lens of its historical manifestations (principally Nazism) for the foreseeable future but I do agree that what's wrong with the modern world has nothing whatsoever to do with Nationalism Socialism. Instead it is the product of pathological individualism and a conception of liberty that entails a retreat or a detachment from society, collective values, norms etc.

[Refugee]

National Socialism will continue to be viewed through the lens of its historical manifestations (principally Nazism) for the foreseeable future but I do agree that what's wrong with the modern world has nothing whatsoever to do with Nationalism Socialism. Instead it is the product of pathological individualism and a conception of liberty that entails a retreat or a detachment from society, collective values, norms etc.
Yes, NS does have a bad reputation, but is it based on concrete facts? If so, why is promotion of it a criminal offence in many countries? Surely, something so ‘evil’ would need to be shouted from the rooftops? Is what we’ve been repeatedly told over half a century an actual lie?

Nearer to the truth is that Hitler removed the power of the International banking cartels, which Iraq, Libya and Syria also tried to do, with the same results and why the present animosity towards Russia, China and Iran, who have also done the same.

We are all of us aware of the cronyism, the criminality and narcissism of the 1%. All wars are bankers’ wars (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/allwarsarebankerwars.php#axzz4c6t27sPz), provides a historical perspective on the manipulation behind International finance. Attack this system and just like Hitler, Gaddafi, Saddam and Assad, your days are numbered. Note how they also became ‘dictators’ and ‘Nazis’ themselves overnight when they also tried it?

After WW1, Germany didn’t just have to pay repatriations, it was systamatically plundered to the point of starvation. Hitler abolished the practice of ursury, threw out the International bankers and from 1933 (six million) to 1938 (one million), NS policies reduced unemployment to practically zero, while the west was still in the throes of a depression and the deep US South was still lynching blacks. There is no disguising Hitler’s popularity and now rather embarrasingly, he was hailed as a saviour by many high ranking western statesmen and royalty. (As was Obama, but no one likes to admit they were suckered with promises to heal the world and change the earth’s climate). How many know a long forgotten fact that Hitler, along with Gandhi, was proposed for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1938?

My point is that before people use PC sound bites, do some research first because you won’t hear this on your indoctrinated mass media, but only how lucky you are to have food stamps!

No one is suggesting Hitler was a God, or Mein Kampf is perfect and yes, of course he made mistakes, but NS policies produced something undreamed of and never realised since by today’s failed radical and Marxist western politicians.


For those who prefer current Euro style ‘democracy’, this four minute video is what you’re cheering for? Really?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=4zp-p1-qamE

Some truisms from Nigel Farage as he destroys gullible
utopian dreams in three minutes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gm9q8uabTs

[Refugee]

Goering was the person in charge of scapegoating.

I think you mean Streicher and Goebbels?

[jet57]

I recently bought a copy of Mein Kampf - I've read it before, but now I want to do sort of a read-through on the forum of it.

Upon reading both that I bought a copy of Mein Kampf and want to do a study of it on the forum, most rational people start to get uncomfortable, and rightfully so, so I feel I must be clear on something before this starts: This will not be a pro-Hitler study. I myself am a firm follower of Judaism, and I find the man and his ideas repugnant. The point is rather to shine a light on the darkness of Hitler's mind. To quote Abraham Foxman, who wrote the introduction to my copy of Mein Kampf (the quote itself from that introduction):



This is why I made this a tPF thread. Any neo-Nazis that want to come out of the shadows and try posting propaganda as a result of this thread will be crushed swiftly. This will not become a pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi thread.

I just bought a copy that was published in 1942; cost me 60 bucks.

[Newpublius]

I recently bought a copy of Mein Kampf - I've read it before, but now I want to do sort of a read-through on the forum of it.

Upon reading both that I bought a copy of Mein Kampf and want to do a study of it on the forum, most rational people start to get uncomfortable, and rightfully so, so I feel I must be clear on something before this starts: This will not be a pro-Hitler study. I myself am a firm follower of Judaism, and I find the man and his ideas repugnant. The point is rather to shine a light on the darkness of Hitler's mind. To quote Abraham Foxman, who wrote the introduction to my copy of Mein Kampf (the quote itself from that introduction):



This is why I made this a tPF thread. Any neo-Nazis that want to come out of the shadows and try posting propaganda as a result of this thread will be crushed swiftly. This will not become a pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi thread.

I would also like you to read Shirer's Rose and Fall of the Third Reich and Albert Speer's, Inside the Third Reich, particularly the latter and the latter should be read with the knowledge that Speer, who really should've hung at Nuremberg, is writing to exculpate Speer of course.

[Cletus]

The Nuremberg trials were a farce.

Why do you believe Speer should have been hanged?

[Newpublius]

The Nuremberg trials were a farce.

Why do you believe Speer should have been hanged?

Speer was spared the noose and as Armaments Minister he shouldn't have been. He ground people to dust and he knew it too. He epitomozes the banality of evil in the sense that Speer isn't an inherently bad person, he was a good person seduced into a morally bankrupt system. I think he was spared because he exuded a certain amount of class that made being in his presence appealing as opposed to somebody like Streicher for instance.

As far as it being a farce, General Ohlendorf, in many respects a well educated figure like Speer was convicted and hanged in the Einsatzgruppen trials. Ohlendorf, when confronted with reports of sadistic tortuous execution, for instance bashing infant skulls with rifle butts, told the executioners that a mother holding a baby should be shot with one rifle bullet to kill both.

Yeah, a real farce that was.

[jet57]

The Nuremberg trials were a farce.

Why do you believe Speer should have been hanged?

And why were the Nuremberg trials a farce?

[Dr. Who]

You can apply to universities as a non-degree student and study languages specifically. It's nearly impossible to learn a language without some formal education. I taught myself basic Russian when I was 13 but I still can only read and write a minimal amount because the Cyrillic alphabet is something that basically has to be formally taught. German is admittedly easier than Russian because the alphabet is nearly the same (other than the umlauts and scharfes S). Most people don't know how or when to use umlauts. Boehner is actually Böhner, for example - umlauts when anglicized become oe, ue, ae, and scharfes S usually becomes ss or sz, I think (the scharfes S is a complicated letter). Also German has a lot in common with English, especially in terms of words that arose following the industrial revolution - car is auto, telephone is telefon, so forth.

It really is a beautiful language, though. Unless you're being yelled at, in which case it is a terrifying language and you think you're about to be murdered.

I have an issue with their economy of white space between words. I joke that this is because of Guttenberg who was economizing the use of paper in books.

[Cletus]

And why were the Nuremberg trials a farce?
The Nuremberg trials made a mockery of the justice system. They created laws that didn't exist before the trials and then found people guilty of them. It was all a dog and pony show to punish a vanquished enemy and try to give it an air of legitimacy by pretending it was an actual trial.

I would have had more respect for the process if they had just taken the accused out and said "Hey guys... you lost." and shot them.

[jet57]

The Nuremberg trials made a mockery of the justice system. They created laws that didn't exist before the trials and then found people guilty of them. It was all a dog and pony show to punish a vanquished enemy and try to give it an air of legitimacy by pretending it was an actual trial.

I would have had more respect for the process if they had just taken the accused out and said "Hey guys... you lost." and shot them.

So, acting like them was the answer. Putting war criminals on trial and actually charging them with the attempted extinction with prejudice of a race of human beings and making that entire system of genocide stand responsible in a world court; for the protection of the world in the future - was a farce...

Interesting.

By the way, the vanquished were not on trial, the criminals were. Their entire belief system was on trial, and the whole thing went to the gallows.

[jet57]

I would also like you to read Shirer's Rose and Fall of the Third Reich and Albert Speer's, Inside the Third Reich, particularly the latter and the latter should be read with the knowledge that Speer, who really should've hung at Nuremberg, is writing to exculpate Speer of course.

Speer was an architect; why should he have been executed?

[resister]

Read the sequal, the audacity of hope.