Islam: Is there a calll for reason?

[Deadwood]

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but it seems all terrorists and Muslims.

We see, often, in this forum a heated, all encompassing attack on all of Islam; according to some every Muslim should be either jailed or kicked out of the country. There are “moderate” Muslims, I know some. However their disgust and derision of the absurd, grotesque violence is always stated quietly, one on one and never with the vehemence such actions should elicit.

Admittedly, my search engines are not state-of-the-art, but I’ve spent some time seeking ANY Islamic leader, any Imam or noted authority ever condemn such atrocities as torture and beheadings.

Without getting into a tit-for-tat, chicken and egg argument that blames the US its allies for the invasion of Afghanistan, or engaging vacuous denials, I ask the question if anyone can produce any evidence that Islamic leaders have either condemned the terror or in any way appealed for calm and reason.

The closest I’ve been able to find is this apology, dated and long after the 911 attacks and long before the assassination of a US Ambassador to Libya:



The Ball Is in Our CourtBy Anwar Ibrahim
Skeptics and cynics alike have said that the quest for the moderate Muslim in the 21st century is akin to the search for the Holy Grail. It's not hard to understand why. Terrorist attacks, suicide bombings and the jihadist call for Muslims "to rise up against the oppression of the West" are widespread.
The radical fringe carrying out such actions has sought to dominate the discourse between Islam and the West. In order to do so, they've set out to foment anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism. They've also advocated indiscriminate violence as a political strategy. To cap their victory, this abysmal lot uses the cataclysm of 9/11 as a lesson for the so-called enemies of Islam.
These dastardly acts have not only been tragedies of untold proportions for those who have suffered or perished. They have also delivered a calamitous blow to followers of the Muslim faith.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703369704575461503431290986.html




While some in here condemn all of Islam, which I believe is in error, I have to ask if anyone has a more recent, cogent and direct condemnation of the most recent Islamic violence?

Failing that, begs the question whether Islamic leaders can or will speak out and try to stem the tide of the religious insanity that seems to be cancerous in our world today.

[JohnAdams]

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but it seems all terrorists and Muslims. We see, often, in this forum a heated, all encompassing attack on all of Islam; according to some every Muslim should be either jailed or kicked out of the country. There are “moderate” Muslims, I know some. However their disgust and derision of the absurd, grotesque violence is always stated quietly, one on one and never with the vehemence such actions should elicit. Admittedly, my search engines are not state-of-the-art, but I’ve spent some time seeking ANY Islamic leader, any Imam or noted authority ever condemn such atrocities as torture and beheadings. Without getting into a tit-for-tat, chicken and egg argument that blames the US its allies for the invasion of Afghanistan, or engaging vacuous denials, I ask the question if anyone can produce any evidence that Islamic leaders have either condemned the terror or in any way appealed for calm and reason. The closest I’ve been able to find is this apology, dated and long after the 911 attacks and long before the assassination of a US Ambassador to Libya:While some in here condemn all of Islam, which I believe is in error, I have to ask if anyone has a more recent, cogent and direct condemnation of the most recent Islamic violence?Failing that, begs the question whether Islamic leaders can or will speak out and try to stem the tide of the religious insanity that seems to be cancerous in our world today.

I will leave the conversation since I fall into the category of those who condemn all of islam.

You see Fear. I condemn any worship of any false god as islam does.

And while I know this is so un-pc and un-liberal, and so terribly terribly intolerant not to mention almost unheard of in our modern socialist "tolerance" state.

Further I reject and ostracize those who do....(meaning I will not sit around with them as they worship their false god) as ALL of Christianity and those who love and obey the One true living God are commanded to do, not only within our "Old Testament" but also by Christ himself no less, in the New Testament. (Biblical references available for those Christians who want them upon request)

But since according to scripture God himself also ostracize's them, and rejects them I guess I'm in good company.

Oh one more thing, Fear, there are some even in the M.E. who hear and have heard the call of the One true living God, and have come out of the luciferian deception that is islam....and sadly, cannot worship their God in the open, as we in America take for granted, but rather have to now live in fear of their lives, because the other adherents of this "religion of peace" called islam, are commanded by their quran to kill them and their families and will try to do so should they learn that these individuals no longer are being deceived by lucifer and the false prophet muhammad.
:angry:

[GrassrootsConservative]

The world would be a much better place if the Atheists went after the Muslims as bad as they go after peaceful Christians.

[shaarona]

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but it seems all terrorists and Muslims.

We see, often, in this forum a heated, all encompassing attack on all of Islam; according to some every Muslim should be either jailed or kicked out of the country. There are “moderate” Muslims, I know some. However their disgust and derision of the absurd, grotesque violence is always stated quietly, one on one and never with the vehemence such actions should elicit.

Admittedly, my search engines are not state-of-the-art, but I’ve spent some time seeking ANY Islamic leader, any Imam or noted authority ever condemn such atrocities as torture and beheadings.

Without getting into a tit-for-tat, chicken and egg argument that blames the US its allies for the invasion of Afghanistan, or engaging vacuous denials, I ask the question if anyone can produce any evidence that Islamic leaders have either condemned the terror or in any way appealed for calm and reason.

The closest I’ve been able to find is this apology, dated and long after the 911 attacks and long before the assassination of a US Ambassador to Libya:




While some in here condemn all of Islam, which I believe is in error, I have to ask if anyone has a more recent, cogent and direct condemnation of the most recent Islamic violence?

Failing that, begs the question whether Islamic leaders can or will speak out and try to stem the tide of the religious insanity that seems to be cancerous in our world today.

Its strictly garbage in garbage out.

There are plenty of informed and moderate blogs, newspapers and forums that deal with the middle east.

One of my favorites is Susris.

Journey to Mecca: In the Footsteps of Ibn Battuta is a gorgeous movie about the renowned 14th century traveller Ibn Battuta who risks his life to complete the journey from his home in Tangiers to Mecca, the cultural heart of Islam.
Watch this footage to see: a movie trailer; interviews with the Director, Producer and HRS Prince Turki Al Faisal, and; a sneak peak at some of the scenes featured in Journey to Mecca.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GcgLFLT-rM

[Deadwood]

I will leave the conversation since I fall into the category of those who condemn all of islam.

I condemn any worship of any false god. allah is not the one true living and breathing God, the creator of all. allah is a false bedouin tribal moon diety.

allah is NOT Ywhy , allah is NOT Jehovah, allah is NOT Christ. And further muhammad (pig blood be upon him: PBUH) is a false prophet...he was NOT a true prophet of the most high God.

As is evidenced by the fact that um some of his "prophecies" have failed to materialize, which the One true living God states flat out, is a sure sign of a false prophet (scriptural references available upon request)

Furthermore contrary to what we were all told by G.W. and later THE OBAMA, if we read the "holy book of islam" the quran, islam IS NOT a religion which teach's it's adherents "peace" but rather one which tell's it's adherent's to conquer, and force submission to islam by the sword if need be. And has been since day one....because the entire religion was concocted by muhammad (pig blood be upon him: PBUH) for just that reason, so he himself could conquer....(see the history of muhamad in the quran itself...(references from the hadith's and surah's as well as world historians, available upon request)

And while I know this is so un-pc and un-liberal, and so terribly terribly intolerant not to mention almost unheard of in our modern socialist "tolerance" state.

I further reject and ostracize those who despite being shown this error stilll insist on doing so....as ALL of Christianity was commanded to do with such reprobate's not only within our "Old Testament" by the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, in his commandments, but also by Christ himself in the New Testament. (Biblical references available for those Christians who want them upon request)

That said, again while I understand that is considered to be so un-pc and ill mannered in our socialist society of tolerance which has sought to do everything it can to remove God from our lives, since God himself rejects these pagans, and those who would allow them to remain in their midst, I guess I'm in good company.

However as I said originally, since some do not wish to hear the truth in this thread I'll leave....and let those who wish to remain blind, deaf and spiritually dumb, to do so.

Valid points, not all of which I agree with....but what does it say of you leave a debate because others disagree?

[shaarona]

Crossroads Arabia

http://xrdarabia.org/about/

Susris

http://www.susris.com/links/

[Morningstar]

I will leave the conversation since I fall into the category of those who condemn all of islam.

You see Fear.

I condemn any worship of any false god.

And while I know this is so un-pc and un-liberal, and so terribly terribly intolerant not to mention almost unheard of in our modern socialist "tolerance" state.

Further I reject and ostracize those who do....(meaning I will not sit around with them as they worship their false god) as ALL of Christianity and those who love and obey the One true living God are commanded to do, not only within our "Old Testament" but also by Christ himself no less, in the New Testament. (Biblical references available for those Christians who want them upon request)

But since according to scripture God himself also ostracize's them, and rejects them I guess I'm in good company.

Oh one more thing, there are some even in the M.E. who hear and have heard the call of the One true living God, and have come out of the luciferian deception that is islam....and sadly, cannot worship their God in the open, as we in America take for granted, but rather have to now live in fear of their lives, because the other adherents of this "religion of peace" called islam, are commanded by their quran to kill them and their families and will try to do so should they learn that these individuals no longer are being deceived by lucifer and the false prophet muhammad. ;)

All religions are engines of deception.

The muslims have never experienced any god, and neither have you.

There are no rules. No god ever handed any down. To anyone.

[JohnAdams]

Valid points, not all of which I agree with....but what does it say of you leave a debate because others disagree? I do not leave because others disagree.

I leave because I am told by my God not to waste my breath, time, and energy trying to make one or those who refuse to see, well see.

I am commanded to state his truth as I know and understand it and leave it at that.

To concern myself with those who seek him instead.

Understand now?

[Morningstar]

I leave because I am told by my God not to waste my breath, time, and energy trying to make one or those who refuse to see, well see.


Told by God, eh?

Or do you mean you read it in a book?

[roadmaster]

Well there are a lot of misconceptions. First, with Arabs, they make up only 15% of the world's Muslim population. Indonesia has the largest. Do they speak out, yes. But you also have to remember most of what they do has nothing to do with Islam, only their culture and traditions. Yes, I do know they speak out against these acts. It’s hard to explain. There are many radicals and the ones who do speak out against them are good people. These radicals twist and turn the teachings. The problem is say in Canada. If they become many in numbers then the ones who are moderate will have no control of the radicals. They will go after them just as they will go after you. I know many that fled and this is what they say. You are correct, not all are like this but you won’t change their culture and traditions. Just like Christians, a person can tell us all day that something is right but if the Bible says different you won’t change the way we think. It’s easy for these radicals just like if say I were one and young men or women couldn’t read and I said Jesus said to stone certain people. In other words, be careful you don’t know what’s in a mans heart. Most likely you won’t hear them talking too much on the TV because they know their families would be in danger.

[JohnAdams]

All religions are engines of deception.

The muslims have never experienced any god, and neither have you.

There are no rules. No god ever handed any down. To anyone.

So sad, so sad.

Aside from the FACT that you cannot possibly have any inkling of what I have experienced and not experienced, as you do not know me whatsoever fallen one, and thus have shown yourself with that statement, to be well what all those who follow lucifer are, a liar just like their spiritual father lucifer.

It really is sad to see so many so called atheists deceived by that luciferian lie. It really is sad to see them following after, a fallen creation, just like themselves, instead of their creator.

OH and p.s. I full well expect to be attacked, railed against, and name called too. This is the typical response anytime God's children, expose those who adhere too and believe luciferian lies, for being the liars they are, by God's children.

[shaarona]

Well there are a lot of misconceptions. First, with Arabs, they make up only 15% of the world's Muslim population. Indonesia has the largest. Do they speak out, yes. But you also have to remember most of what they do has nothing to do with Islam, only their culture and traditions. Yes, I do know they speak out against these acts. It’s hard to explain. There are many radicals and the ones who do speak out against them are good people. These radicals twist and turn the teachings. The problem is say in Canada. If they become many in numbers then the ones who are moderate will have no control of the radicals. They will go after them just as they will go after you. I know many that fled and this is what they say. You are correct, not all are like this but you won’t change their culture and traditions. Just like Christians, a person can tell us all day that something is right but if the Bible says different you won’t change the way we think. It’s easy for these radicals just like if say I were one and young men or women couldn’t read and I said Jesus said to stone certain people. In other words, be careful you don’t know what’s in a mans heart. Most likely you won’t hear them talking too much on the TV because they know their families would be in danger.

Have you lived anywhere in the Muslim world?

[Morningstar]

So sad, so sad.

Aside from the FACT that you cannot possibly have any inkling of what I have experienced and not experienced and thus have shown yourself to be well what all those atheists who follow lucifer are, a liar just like their spiritual father lucifer.

It really is sad to see so many deceived by that luciferian lie.

There is precisely as much evidence proving that Allah is God as there is in defense of Jesus as God.

None.

[roadmaster]

Have you lived anywhere in the Muslim world?

You have no idea who I am. When you start speaking the truth then we can talk.

[shaarona]

You have no idea who I am. When you start speaking the truth then we can talk.

You make some rather sweeping statements.. so I wondered if you had ever lived in the Muslim world.

I have, but my family were in the oil business like so many other Americans in the ME over the past 70 years.

[JohnAdams]

Have you lived anywhere in the Muslim world?

Oh here comes shaarona, yet another exposed...lets just say "intellectually dishonest" individual.

You don't have to "live anywhere in the muslim world" for starters. To know what the religion teach's.

Secondly according to the THE OBAMA yes, yes, he/she has.

Remember shaarona, according to THE OBAMA, America is a muslim nation....(even though our Constitution forbids any STATE religion)

[shaarona]

Oh here comes shaarona, yet another exposed...lets just say "intellectually dishonest" individual.

You don't have to "live anywhere in the muslim world" for starters. To know what the religion teach's.

Secondly according to the THE OBAMA yes, yes, he/she has.

Remember shaarona, according to THE OBAMA, America is a muslim nation....(even though our Constitution forbids any STATE religion)

Obama didn't say America was a Muslim nation.. You lose credibility right there.

For Americans who have actually lived and worked in the ME they have a very friendly and tolerant experience.. and they don't fear Islam.

[Deadwood]

Oh here comes shaarona, yet another exposed...lets just say "intellectually dishonest" individual.

You don't have to "live anywhere in the muslim world" for starters. To know what the religion teach's.

Secondly according to the THE OBAMA yes, yes, he/she has.

Remember shaarona, according to THE OBAMA, America is a muslim nation....(even though our Constitution forbids any STATE religion)

I must correct you on that one. Not intellectually dishonest at all, just outright dishonest.

And diversionary straw man weilding apologist. What does living in the Muslim world have to do with finding and citing ONE Ilamic leader who condemns these atrocities.

The comparisons with Christianity are absurd. In recent times no true Christian has EVER publicly beheaded anyone......and where there have been atrocities in the name of Christ, Christians everywhere denounce it.

May we please return to the topic...where, or where, is there one Islamic leader who has tried to stem this insanity?

To defend terror is to be a terrorist.

If you have problems with Shaarona/Margot who has claimed to be everything from Arab speaking, to a genetic scientists, put her on ignore....it's all bullshit anyway.

[Morningstar]

OH and p.s. I full well expect to be attacked, railed against, and name called too. This is the typical response anytime God's children, expose those who adhere too and believe luciferian lies, for being the liars they are, by God's children.

How convenient that you've also invented a devil. That way you are insulated against any rationality that disagrees with your views.

[Deadwood]

How convenient that you've also invented a devil. That way you are insulated against any rationality that disagrees with your views.


Please.

I had asked in the OP that we stay on topic and find a reasoned condemnation of Islam. Beating each other up over theological differences gets us nowhere and defeats the purpose.

All one can assume from this sort of thing is that there is none

[shaarona]

I must correct you on that one. Not intellectually dishonest at all, just outright dishonest.

And diversionary straw man weilding apologist. What does living in the Muslim world have to do with finding and citing ONE Ilamic leader who condemns these atrocities.

The comparisons with Christianity are absurd. In recent times no true Christian has EVER publicly beheaded anyone......and where there have been atrocities in the name of Christ, Christians everywhere denounce it.

May we please return to the topic...where, or where, is there one Islamic leader who has tried to stem this insanity?

To defend terror is to be a terrorist.

If you have problems with Shaarona/Margot who has claimed to be everything from Arab speaking, to a genetic scientists, put her on ignore....it's all bullshit anyway.

If you read ANY of the Arab Newspapers they have condemned terrorism constantly.

[shaarona]

Islamic Statements condemning terrorism.

http://kurzman.unc.edu/islamic-statements-against-terrorism/

[GrassrootsConservative]

If you read ANY of the Arab Newspapers they have condemned terrorism constantly.

Yeah great. Unlike over here their people aren't sheep who do whatever the media tells them. This is your misconception, child. The problem is their religious leaders spouting "Death to America" and all that shit. You have a problem if you think their newspapers printing anything helps at all.

/edit: We need to go after Islam itself to get to the root of the problem.

[Morningstar]

Please.

I had asked in the OP that we stay on topic and find a reasoned condemnation of Islam. Beating each other up over theological differences gets us nowhere and defeats the purpose.

All one can assume from this sort of thing is that there is none

Fair enough. I'll save it.

[Morningstar]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[Deadwood]

Yeah great. Unlike over here their people aren't sheep who do whatever the media tells them. This is your misconception, child. The problem is their religious leaders spouting "Death to America" and all that shit. You have a problem if you think their newspapers printing anything helps at all.
/edit: We need to go after Islam itself to get to the root of the problem.


Note that I specifically asked for links, refereces, and all we have seen is the dubious claim from a proven prevaricator that unnamed Arab newspapers have condemned the terrorism and torture...and this from a source who claims to speak Arabic.

Again, I ask, is there a site in all the entire internet and its trillions of references of ONE such condemnation?


How long must we wait?

[Deadwood]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Freedom fighter's kill women and children, behead Jews because they are Jews?


I see...


Is there one site that condemns the terrorism or are you simply going to go on supporting it?

[Morningstar]

Note that I specifically asked for links, refereces, and all we have seen is the dubious claim from a proven prevaricator that unnamed Arab newspapers have condemned the terrorism and torture...and this from a source who claims to speak Arabic.

Again, I ask, is there a site in all the entire internet and its trillions of references of ONE such condemnation?


How long must we wait?

Why should it be condemned?

[shaarona]

Note that I specifically asked for links, refereces, and all we have seen is the dubious claim from a proven prevaricator that unnamed Arab newspapers have condemned the terrorism and torture...and this from a source who claims to speak Arabic.

Again, I ask, is there a site in all the entire internet and its trillions of references of ONE such condemnation?


How long must we wait?

You have skipped the link. Already posted.

[Deadwood]

Why should it be condemned?

So you support the assassination and torture of innocents and yet claim not all of Islam is terrorism?


Seems conflicting.


I wonder if you would ask such a question if you watched your own child beheaded?

[shaarona]

http://www.arabiancamelot.com/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures//other_brat_collections_129/royal_court_trip_of_2000_145/volume_iii_148/2000_royal_court_trip_115_20090825_1482926271.jpg

http://www.arabiancamelot.com/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures//other_brat_collections_129/royal_court_trip_of_2000_145/volume_iii_148/2000_royal_court_trip_109_20090825_1410602669.jpg

http://www.arabiancamelot.com/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures//other_brat_collections_129/royal_court_trip_of_2000_145/volume_i_146/2000_royal_court_trip_1_20090825_1428236427.jpg

http://www.arabiancamelot.com/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures//other_brat_collections_129/royal_court_trip_of_2000_145/volume_i_146/2000_royal_court_trip_39_20090825_1827724557.jpg

[Kizzume]

The world would be a much better place if the Atheists went after the Muslims as bad as they go after peaceful Christians.

Some do, like Pat Condell (http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell/videos?view=0), but they're not in the majority, unfortunately. It has become politically incorrect to say bad things about Islam, and atheists end up buying into the PC thing just as much as everyone else.

EDIT: "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." -- Voltaire

[shaarona]

Some do, like Pat Condell (http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell/videos?view=0), but they're not in the majority, unfortunately. It has become politically incorrect to say bad things about Islam, and atheists end up buying into the PC thing just as much as everyone else.

Pat Condell has 6th grde education and has never been to any
Arab country... He just oozes hate and ignorance.

[Kizzume]

Pat Condell has 6th grde education and has never been to any
Arab country... He just oozes hate and ignorance.

Ha! Very funny, but not really.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Pat Condell has 6th grde education and has never been to any
Arab country... He just oozes hate and ignorance.

You're... using someone else's possible hate and ignorance while defending Muslims?
:biglaugh:

[Deadwood]

You're... using someone else's possible hate and ignorance while defending Muslims?
:biglaugh:

Classic propaganda tactic...attack the attacker.

Notice once again an unsubstantiated claim from the documented liar....

[shaarona]

You're... using someone else's possible hate and ignorance while defending Muslims?
:biglaugh:

Its absurd to paint 1.2 billion people as evil.... especilly if you have never known any Muslims.

[shaarona]

Classic propaganda tactic...attack the attacker.

Notice once again an unsubstantiated claim from the documented liar....

You always skip documentation.. so that you can name call and abuse others.

[Captain Obvious]

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." -- Voltaire

Retards?

[Morningstar]

So you support the assassination and torture of innocents and yet claim not all of Islam is terrorism?


Seems conflicting.


I wonder if you would ask such a question if you watched your own child beheaded?

One beheading kills one person. How many people are killed by one bomb or one drone strike or one white phosphorus strike?

How many people die because of economic sanctions?

[Morningstar]

So you support the assassination and torture of innocents and yet claim not all of Islam is terrorism?



One could plausibly say that there are no innocents.

But, beyond that, we do the same things.

[garyo]

And you know this how?

[Kizzume]

Its absurd to paint 1.2 billion people as evil.... especilly if you have never known any Muslims.

If they believe in Sharia Law, I would call them evil, if there is such a thing as evil. Not saying 1.2 billion people believe in Sharia, but those that do I would call evil.

[shaarona]

If they believe in Sharia Law, I would call them evil, if there is such a thing as evil. Not saying 1.2 billion people believe in Sharia, but those that do I would call evil.

Do you know anything about Sharia law, or just what someone else who doesn't know anything about Sharia law may have told you?

[Morningstar]

If they believe in Sharia Law, I would call them evil, if there is such a thing as evil. Not saying 1.2 billion people believe in Sharia, but those that do I would call evil.

Might Makes Right is the only law anyone believes in.

[hanger4]

Its absurd to paint 1.2 billion people as evil.... especilly if you have never known any Muslims.

I've never met a pedofile and don't need to, to know they're evil.

[hanger4]

Do you know anything about Sharia law, or just what someone else who doesn't know anything about Sharia law may have told you?

Please feel free to post a link or reference to explain what Sharia law really is.

[shaarona]

I've never met a pedofile and don't need to, to know they're evil.

Brilliant.

Texas Republicans are trying to remove critical thinking skills from schools. They don't want young people challenged on "fixed beliefs".

[shaarona]

Please feel free to post a link or reference to explain what Sharia law really is.

Its the time tested path to clean water..

[hanger4]

Brilliant.

Texas Republicans are trying to remove critical thinking skills from schools. They don't want young people challenged on "fixed beliefs".

Maybe that's your problem, you're critical of everyone that doesn't view Islam through your rose colored glasses.

[shaarona]

Maybe that's your problem, you're critical of everyone that doesn't view Islam through your rose colored glasses.

Muslims are not perfect.. but I think when we cave in to hate and ignorance we lose a large piece of ourselves and we become unable to make things better.

[Kizzume]

Do you know anything about Sharia law, or just what someone else who doesn't know anything about Sharia law may have told you?

Let me guess--because it covers things like feet washing, everything else bad in it is off the hook? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. I know about Sharia law from the 50 or more articles I've read about it from various sources. I don't need someone's opinion of it who actually thinks it's a good thing.

[Kizzume]

Muslims are not perfect.. but I think when we cave in to hate and ignorance we lose a large piece of ourselves and we become unable to make things better.

Was Mohammed not a barbaric pedophile? Does Sharia not treat women like dogs?

[shaarona]

Let me guess--because it covers things like feet washing, everything else bad in it is off the hook? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. I know about Sharia law from the 50 or more articles I've read about it from various sources. I don't need someone's opinion of it who actually thinks it's a good thing.

Which country practices Sharia law? Did your 50 sources tell you?

[shaarona]

Was Mohammed not a barbaric pedophile? Does Sharia not treat women like dogs?

Women in Islam are put on pedestals by their sons, fthers, husbands and brothers.

Mohammed wasn't pedophile.. Aisha was between 17 and 19 when they married.. and had been previously engaged to another man.

[Captain Obvious]

Was Mohammed not a barbaric pedophile? Does Sharia not treat women like dogs?

You tell me.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/10/09/taliban-shoot-teenage-pakistani-girl-activist/

[roadmaster]

Muslims are not perfect.. but I think when we cave in to hate and ignorance we lose a large piece of ourselves and we become unable to make things better.

Nor are Christians but you can't force or scare a person into believing. Many Muslims think they can and demand you believe. The atheist that put many bad cartoons of Jesus was never harmed but when he put out one relating to Islam he was killed. What did they accomplish?

[Deadwood]

One could plausibly say that there are no innocents.

But, beyond that, we do the same things.


Absurd and stupid.

[hanger4]

You tell me.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/10/09/taliban-shoot-teenage-pakistani-girl-activist/


That's not fair Cap. you know shaarona has a hard time facing reality.

[Deadwood]

Let me guess--because it covers things like feet washing, everything else bad in it is off the hook? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. I know about Sharia law from the 50 or more articles I've read about it from various sources. I don't need someone's opinion of it who actually thinks it's a good thing.



It's all bullshit from here anyway. A thousand or more times she's been asked, demanded to substantiate the Islamic terrorist apologistics.....

never one, ever.

Spewing goo......


I doubt she's ever seen the Koran

[shaarona]

It's all bullshit from here anyway. A thousand or more times she's been asked, demanded to substantiate the Islamic terrorist apologistics.....

never one, ever.

Spewing goo......


I doubt she's ever seen the Koran

How many times do you need it posted?

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism.

http://kurzman.unc.edu/islamic-statements-against-terrorism/

Tea at 11,000 feet at al Sooda..

http://arabiancamelot.com/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures//other_brat_collections_129/royal_court_trip_of_2000_145/volume_i_146/2000_royal_court_trip_1_20090825_1428236427.jpg

[Kizzume]

Women in Islam are put on pedestals by their sons, fthers, husbands and brothers.

Right, that's why they get stoned to death for things like.... getting raped. You can stick your head in the sand if you wish, it just makes you look ignorant.

[shaarona]

http://arabiancamelot.com/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures//other_brat_collections_129/royal_court_trip_of_2000_145/volume_i_146/2000_royal_court_trip_39_20090825_1827724557.jpg

[shaarona]

Right, that's why they get stoned to death for things like.... getting raped. You can stick your head in the sand if you wish, it just makes you look ignorant.

Rape is a capital offense.. Men are put to death.Women get a rape kit at the hospital.

[Kizzume]

Rape is a capital offense.. Men are put to death.Women get a rape kit at the hospital.

Sorry, but if you want to live in a different world where Islamic countries are all flowers and candy, go ahead, just don't expect anyone to take you seriously when you do.

[roadmaster]

How many times do you need it posted?

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism.

http://kurzman.unc.edu/islamic-statements-against-terrorism/

Tea at 11,000 feet at al Sooda..

http://arabiancamelot.com/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures//other_brat_collections_129/royal_court_trip_of_2000_145/volume_i_146/2000_royal_court_trip_1_20090825_1428236427.jpg

You keep showing Saudi Arabia.

[Calypso Jones]

Charles Kurzman is an ass. Ignoring the islamic threat is going to be the undoing of the west.

[shaarona]

Sorry, but if you want to live in a different world where Islamic countries are all flowers and candy, go ahead, just don't expect anyone to take you seriously when you do.

Skilled Americans can earn 5 or 6 times (or more) thn what they earn in the US .. Benefits re excellent and they get to travel.. plus its very safe and the people are very nice.

[shaarona]

Charles Kurzman is an ass. Ignoring the islamic threat is going to be the undoing of the west.

He just collected Islamic statements against terrorism.. Giving into fear and ignorance will be the undoing of the West.

[Calypso Jones]

The thickheadedness. Oh alright i won't believe my lying eyes.

[Captain Obvious]

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/images/43tt.jpg

[shaarona]

You keep showing Saudi Arabia.

Don't you see me sitting towards the back of the tea house? Woman in white shirt.

[shaarona]

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/images/43tt.jpg

Wasn't that woman executed in Afghanistan?

[Morningstar]

I've never met a pedofile and don't need to, to know they're evil.

A pedophile is convicted on his actions.

You're convicting people on what you presume is in their minds.

Big difference.

[Morningstar]

Absurd and stupid.

Ouch.

Not so much.

[Morningstar]

How many Americans have terrorists killed since 9.10.2001?

How many "innocents" have the American military killed during the GWOT?

[hanger4]

A pedophile is convicted on his actions.

You're convicting people on what you presume is in their minds.

Big difference.

OH, I'm sorry, I didn't realise all the terrorism in the name Allah was a figment of my imagination.

[Kizzume]

Don't you see me sitting towards the back of the tea house? Woman in white shirt.

Shaarona, let it be known: When Nazis weren't doing horrible things, they were enjoying life, being kind to each other, and sharing good times.

In Islamic countries I'm sure that if you learn all their rules, make yourself use your right hand instead of your left if you're left handed, you can have a pleasant time and even enjoy tea with people. That doesn't mean it's a friendly country, it doesn't mean it even acknowledges the concept of human rights or women's rights.

[Morningstar]

OH, I'm sorry, I didn't realise all the terrorism in the name Allah was a figment of my imagination.

You should be sorry.

There are 1.2 billion Muslims on this rock. How many of them have committed atrocities?

[Morningstar]

Shaarona, let it be known: When Nazis weren't doing horrible things, they were enjoying life, being kind to each other, and sharing good times.

In Islamic countries I'm sure that if you learn all their rules, make yourself use your right hand instead of your left if you're left handed, you can have a pleasant time and even enjoy tea with people. That doesn't mean it's a friendly country, it doesn't mean it even acknowledges the concept of human rights or women's rights.

It also doesn't mean that it's any of your business.

[hanger4]

How many Americans have terrorists killed since 9.10.2001?

How many "innocents" have the American military killed during the GWOT?

How many "innocents" have terrorists killed since 9/10/01 ??

And the terrorists target the innocent, the US Armed Forces do not.

[hanger4]

You should be sorry.

There are 1.2 billion Muslims on this rock. How many of them have committed atrocities?

All Muslims are not terrorists, but the OVERwhelming majority of all terrorist acts are committed by Muslims.

[Calypso Jones]

They're also threatening to open the doors to hell on french nationals in Mali. No. they're good folks. just so misunderstood. It's the west...they're the evil doers.

[shaarona]

Shaarona, let it be known: When Nazis weren't doing horrible things, they were enjoying life, being kind to each other, and sharing good times.

In Islamic countries I'm sure that if you learn all their rules, make yourself use your right hand instead of your left if you're left handed, you can have a pleasant time and even enjoy tea with people. That doesn't mean it's a friendly country, it doesn't mean it even acknowledges the concept of human rights or women's rights.

Read the Nuremberg Rules..

Nazis confiscated property... took away citizenship and all civil rights for Jews... they were incarcerated, put into forced labor, starved, beaten or killed if they resisted. They were demonized as baby killers and every conceivable version of blood libel. They had dogs sicced on them..

As for Islam and Arab countries.. You have NO experience. You may as well get your information from Mien Kampf.

[shaarona]

They're also threatening to open the doors to hell on french nationals in Mali. No. they're good folks. just so misunderstood. It's the west...they're the evil doers.

LOLOLOL.. and you know what is going on in France or Mali?

[Morningstar]

How many "innocents" have terrorists killed since 9/10/01 ??

And the terrorists target the innocent, the US Armed Forces do not.

Examples?

[Morningstar]

All Muslims are not terrorists, but the OVERwhelming majority of all terrorist acts are committed by Muslims.

The founding fathers were terrorists. But we venerate them. Why?

[hanger4]

LOLOLOL.. and you know what is going on in France or Mali?

You're not this stupid ?? right ??

[Calypso Jones]

LOLOLOL.. and you know what is going on in France or Mali?

http://news.yahoo.com/mali-islamists-step-threats-france-pushes-war-133912405.html;_ylt=AhAwLq7KpnXLGNpcr3VqhcvyWed_;_ ylu=X3oDMTQ1dmljcW9wBG1pdANQaG90byBTaW5nbGUgTWV0YW RhdGEgUmVsYXRlZARwa2cDMmRmOWZjMWUtMzYzOS0zYmNhLTkz M2ItMTNhMDEwNzg4MDk5BHBvcwMxBHNlYwNpbWdpbmZvBHZlcg M3NmQwODU3MC0xNTZhLTExZTItYmQ3OC04ZjY2NTUzN2FiNDY-;_ylg=X3oDMTJtbW4wbGxyBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDYjNkZjcxMzAtOTdmMy0zODI1LWI5ODItMGNiOTRkMj BhYzUxBHBzdGNhdAMxcGhvdG8EcHQDMXBob3Rv;_ylv=3

the rebels have no more claim to the area than the french do. But then french hostages have been held for at least 2 years. Not exactly the actions of a peaceful people. I've no doubt whose side you're on.

[hanger4]

Examples?

Seriously

You want me to list terrorist acts that target innocents ??

[hanger4]

The founding fathers were terrorists. But we venerate them. Why?

The founding fathers targeted innocent bystanders ??

I did not know that.

Examples ??

[Captain Obvious]

The founding fathers targeted innocent bystanders ??

I did not know that.

Examples ??

Manifest Destiny.

[hanger4]

Manifest Destiny.

I know what you're drivin' at Cap, but Manifest Destiny was a fer piece from the founding fathers.

[Morningstar]

Manifest Destiny.

Pretty much.

[Calypso Jones]

Was there some reasoning behind raping and murdering our US ambassador to Libya? And just recently like within the last 36 hours wasn't there another 5 churches burned in Tanzana...and an attempted beheading of a young christian man? I'm not sure if the beheading was successful or not but there was an incident.


This past week, muslim authorities were taking names of unwed mothers and pregnant women i'm sure cause they only wanted to put them on the sharia birth announcement list. I guess we'll see in another couple weeks if these women and their unborn or newly born are stoned to death. I just realized that this is Mali too.

but hey. we're talking muslims here. Salt o' the earth. no worries.

[Morningstar]

Was there some reasoning behind raping and murdering our US ambassador to Libya?

Uhmmmmmm...

Yes?

[Morningstar]

The founding fathers targeted innocent bystanders ??

I did not know that.

Examples ??

There was an incident in Boston, if I remember...

[GrassrootsConservative]

There was an incident in Boston, if I remember...

LMAO. THE BOSTON TEA PARTY WASN'T TERRORISM. What's wrong with you?

[Morningstar]

LMAO. THE BOSTON TEA PARTY WASN'T TERRORISM. What's wrong with you?

What is terrorism?

[GrassrootsConservative]

What is terrorism?

The use of violence for political gains.
You are on the internet, you should learn to use search engines.

[Morningstar]

The use of violence for political gains.
You are on the internet, you should learn to use search engines.

The Boston Tea Party doesn't count, then?!?

Goofball...

[hanger4]

What is terrorism?

If you're tryin' pass yourself off as a deep thinker, get over it.

Your nothin' but a petty poster.

[Kizzume]

Read the Nuremberg Rules..

Nazis confiscated property... took away citizenship and all civil rights for Jews... they were incarcerated, put into forced labor, starved, beaten or killed if they resisted. They were demonized as baby killers and every conceivable version of blood libel. They had dogs sicced on them..

As for Islam and Arab countries.. You have NO experience. You may as well get your information from Mien Kampf.

Right right, all those news articles from CNN and other mainstream news about stonings and honor killings--they're all in some conspiracy against Islam? :rolleyes:

[Morningstar]

If you're tryin' pass yourself off as a deep thinker, get over it.

Your nothin' but a petty poster.

Watch it.

[Deadwood]

OK, let's take a look at this kind, gentle=, put women on a pedestal Sharia Law as practiced in the cited country, Saudi Arabia:


Criminal law punishments in Saudi Arabia include public beheading, stoning, amputation and lashing. Serious criminal offences include not only internationally recognized crimes such as murder, rape, theft and robbery, but also apostasy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy), adultery, witchcraft and sorcery. In addition to the regular police force, Saudi Arabia has a secret police, the Mubahith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabahith), and "religious" police, the Mutawa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Mutaween). The latter enforces Islamic social and moral norms. Western-based human rights organizations, such as Amnesty International (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International) and Human Rights Watch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch), have criticized the activities of both the Mubahith and the Mutawa, as well as a number of other aspects of human rights in Saudi Arabia. These include the number of executions, the range of offences which are subject to the death penalty, the lack of safeguards for the accused in the criminal justice system, the treatment of homosexuals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia), the use of torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture), the lack of religious freedom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_freedom), and the highly disadvantaged position of women (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia). Additionally, Albert Shanker Institute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Shanker_Institute) and Freedom House (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House) have stated that "Saudi Arabia's practices diverge from the concept of the rule of law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law)."[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_law_in_Saudi_Arabia#cite_note-DW-0)




So, in this utopian world of putting women on a pedestal women can be beheaded for adultery?


A yes, a LIBERAL, gentler form of law, one that provides "more rights for women than those in the west,."



Margot, you are so full of shit its running out your ears.....

[Deadwood]

How many Americans have terrorists killed since 9.10.2001?

How many "innocents" have the American military killed during the GWOT?


Straw man.


Read the OP.......


Oh how I hate stupidity....

[Deadwood]

The Boston Tea Party doesn't count, then?!?

Goofball...


Please cite the killed and wounded in the Boston Tea Party.


It was a protest....

Now the Boston Massacre, that was a different story......when BRITISH troops opened fire on unarmed civilians.


I love how liberals, without anything to argue with always resort to "well what about this?" as if two wrongs make a right.

Asinine and moronic.

[Morningstar]

Please cite the killed and wounded in the Boston Tea Party.


It was a protest....

Now the Boston Massacre, that was a different story......when BRITISH troops opened fire on unarmed civilians.


I love how liberals, without anything to argue with always resort to "well what about this?" as if two wrongs make a right.

Asinine and moronic.

I'm not a liberal, honeypie. Get a grip.

The answer to your question?

Muslims don't disagree. That's why they don't speak out.

[Deadwood]

Right right, all those news articles from CNN and other mainstream news about stonings and honor killings--they're all in some conspiracy against Islam? :rolleyes:


Yeah, its clearly a conspiracy led by Al Jazera which is an atheistic front headed by a Jewish cabal to make peace loving Muslim beheaders look bad.


And if you read real carefully? The conspiracy stories even suggest that the Muslims use dull knives.....bastards.

[Morningstar]

Muslims are idiots, just like Americans...

[Morningstar]

Might makes right.

That's it. That is the only rule on this rock.

[Deadwood]

I'm not a liberal, honeypie. Get a grip.

The answer to your question?

Muslims don't disagree. That's why they don't speak out.

Then stop acting like one.....

And if you think I'm a honey pie you have serious medication problems child.......


Now be nice or MR. Moderator will slap you upside the head....

oops, can't do that if you don't have one.....

My bad

[Captain Obvious]

http://seemslegit.com/_images/c4e752561458ac0348df1cc56de5716b/245%20-%20firepower%20hug%20peace%20weapons.jpg

[Morningstar]

Then stop acting like one.....

And if you think I'm a honey pie you have serious medication problems child.......


Now be nice or MR. Moderator will slap you upside the head....

oops, can't do that if you don't have one.....

My bad

That was weak.

Anyway, I'm not nice. I'm too smart to be nice.

[Deadwood]

That was weak.

Anyway, I'm not nice. I'm too smart to be nice.


I hope to soon see some evidence of that....

[Morningstar]

I hope to soon see some evidence of that....

Them's got ears, let 'em hear...

[Deadwood]

Them's got ears, let 'em hear...

Hmmm


Noting to cite.

No contribution, no references...


Hmmm....profile, ignore.

works for me:danceshout::danceshout:

[Morningstar]

Hmmm


Noting to cite.

No contribution, no references...


Hmmm....profile, ignore.

works for me:danceshout::danceshout:

Knock yourself out. Seriously.

[Deadwood]

Put em on ignore and they keep posting toll shit...

I have no idea what's in that thread and could care ab=out as much as how often my neighbor shits...which is about the same thing.

Present information and you will be heard, blow smoke and get ignored.....

night night, baby cakes

[Ivan88]

I ask the question if anyone can produce any evidence that Islamic leaders have either condemned the terror or in any way appealed for calm and reason.

I have to ask if anyone has a more recent, cogent and direct condemnation of the most recent Islamic violence?

Failing that, begs the question whether Islamic leaders can or will speak out and try to stem the tide of the religious insanity that seems to be cancerous in our world today.

Religion is man's attempt to hide from God by putting lawyers/priests between them and God to give them an excuse to blame "nature's God" and avoid doing what He wants them to do & become.

These religions of self are what "nature's God" came in human form to save us from.

Throughout the lives of the Prophets to now, there has been a struggle between the masters of religion (ego) and those who would be free of the ego and harmonize themselves with the God of Truth, Mercy and Faith Life and Love.

Muhammed was taking the message of the Prophets to Arabia, and he did. After he was poisoned and passed on, the religionists took over Islam.
They killed the people who resisted their takeover. The religionists ruled with religious pretext to oppress and plunder the nations they could.

What you have to day in Islam is a struggle between the religionists of ego, and the true Muslims who seek to harmonize with the Logic of Life and Love. The religionists have predominated so far, just as they have done in Christendom.

If fearandloathing wishes to find a party in Islam that condemns the terrorism, he has to be willing to see the doctrines and mindsets that drive both Christendom and Islam to suicidal conflicts over what are really non-issues.

Here are 4 Islamic videos with English Subtitles that reveal the struggle between the doctrines of Life and Love and their nemesis, the doctrines of the egoic mind, AND condemn the terrorism you referenced:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48UPtECW6Hs
IranianMovies.com 1(949) 367-1710
Long Version TV Series on 3 DVD's SAINT MARY with ENGLISH SUBTITLES
http://royalamericaninstituteforworldpeace.org/mediac/450_0/media/DIR_104/306ea89b4d6feabffff84b9ffffe41e.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbEkvt-ReBg&feature=player_embedded#!


THE PROPHET JOSEPH
http://mysite.verizon.net/ress8ouv/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/JuzarifJoseph.JPG.w300h208.jpg
http://www.shiatv.net/view_video.php?viewkey=5770e1dc3ef156762cec

Mohktarnameh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7yHIx47he4
All 4 of these videos condemn the terrorism we see in the world today, and that terrorism is basically no different than what people faced in the times portrayed in these 4 video series.
All of them were produced in the Christian Israel nation of Iran.

[Captain Obvious]

The message is hidden because this member is on your ignore list

[Deadwood]

Well gang, we asked for some indication that there is a 'molderate" side to Islam; asked for ONE POST, just ONE to show that an Islamic leader, an Imam or somebody had called for an end to the bloodshed.....

over six hours we're waited and what we got was a lot of blather and bullshit, tirades and trolling, anti American hate speech and patent lies....

But not ONE link to even one Islamic leader ever calling for reason other than what was offered in the OP...

Now that means either there isn't such a thing as moderate Islam, or its apologists are simplistic, single digit IQ morons lying through their teeth....

I sincerely hope its the later 'cause if there is no "moderate Islam" we're fucked...war is imminent.

[Deadwood]

Dead Thread


Say what you like now, but there is no longer any intelligent life in here...

[Ivan88]

Dead Thread


Say what you like now, but there is no longer any intelligent life in here...

See Post #120, page 12 of this thread, your answer begins there.

[Morningstar]

Dead Thread


Say what you like now, but there is no longer any intelligent life in here...

What are you asking for?!?

These are religious radicals and fundamentalists.

[JohnAdams]

Told by God, eh?

Or do you mean you read it in a book?

No I don't mean I read it a book luciferian, I MEAN my speaks to me, and tells me this.

[JohnAdams]

Well gang, we asked for some indication that there is a 'molderate" side to Islam; asked for ONE POST, just ONE to show that an Islamic leader, an Imam or somebody had called for an end to the bloodshed.....

over six hours we're waited and what we got was a lot of blather and bullshit, tirades and trolling, anti American hate speech and patent lies....

But not ONE link to even one Islamic leader ever calling for reason other than what was offered in the OP...

Now that means either there isn't such a thing as moderate Islam, or its apologists are simplistic, single digit IQ morons lying through their teeth....

I sincerely hope its the later 'cause if there is no "moderate Islam" we're fucked...war is imminent.

I would be very, very, very careful about calling how our God states we are to live in this life "bullshit"....but of course I've witnessed EXACTLY his power over our lives and learned that lesson the hard way long ago...I realize some still have not and won't, till it's too late.

[Kizzume]

I would be very, very, very careful about calling how our God states we are to live in this life "bullshit"....but of course I've witnessed EXACTLY his power over our lives and learned that lesson the hard way long ago...I realize some still have not and won't, till it's too late.

If you're trying to shut down conversation in the thread, religious proselytizing is definitely a good way to do it. From saying that your imaginary friend talks directly to you to "some still have not and won't till it's too late". I don't know how you expect people to respond to that.

How DO you expect people to respond?

[Equality]

Well gang, we asked for some indication that there is a 'molderate" side to Islam; asked for ONE POST, just ONE to show that an Islamic leader, an Imam or somebody had called for an end to the bloodshed.....

over six hours we're waited and what we got was a lot of blather and !@#$%^&*, tirades and trolling, anti American hate speech and patent lies....

But not ONE link to even one Islamic leader ever calling for reason other than what was offered in the OP...

Now that means either there isn't such a thing as moderate Islam, or its apologists are simplistic, single digit IQ morons lying through their teeth....

I sincerely hope its the later 'cause if there is no "moderate Islam" we're !@#$%^&*...war is imminent.

Here you are
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_2/
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

[JohnAdams]

If you're trying to shut down conversation in the thread, religious proselytizing is definitely a good way to do it. From saying that your imaginary friend talks directly to you to "some still have not and won't till it's too late". I don't know how you expect people to respond to that.

How DO you expect people to respond? No response is asked for nor required. That said I would expect those with ears to hear and eyes to see, to hear and see, and others to remain blind and deaf as many already are to things of the spirit.

Oh and stating what one knows to be the truth is not "religious proselytizing" as you put it.

[shaarona]

No response is asked for nor required. That said I would expect those with ears to hear and eyes to see, to hear and see, and others to remain blind and deaf as many already are to things of the spirit.

Oh and stating what one knows to be the truth is not "religious proselytizing" as you put it.

Muhammed preached.. Save yourselves. I cannot save you. Return to the God of Abraham.

I don't know what God intended.. since He doesn't speak to me.

But, I do know that Christians have nothing to fear from Islam.

[hanger4]

But, I do know that Christians have nothing to fear from Islam.

Really ??

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/02/05/ayaan-hirsi-ali-the-global-war-on-christians-in-the-muslim-world.html


http://www.investigativeproject.org/3436/christians-facing-genocide-in-muslim-world


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-l-esposito/global-muslim-war-on-christianity_b_1296330.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians



Credibility refers to the objective and subjective components of the believability of a source or message and you have none.

[shaarona]

Really ??

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/02/05/ayaan-hirsi-ali-the-global-war-on-christians-in-the-muslim-world.html


http://www.investigativeproject.org/3436/christians-facing-genocide-in-muslim-world


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-l-esposito/global-muslim-war-on-christianity_b_1296330.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians



Credibility refers to the objective and subjective components of the believability of a source or message and you have none.

Trust yourself and your experience rather than media.

[hanger4]

Trust yourself and your experience rather than media.

You're an amazingly naive little girl.

[shaarona]

You're an amazingly naive little girl.

I am not naive nor am I young. I have seen plenty of hate and ignorance in my lifetime.

I just know the truth about Islam and arabs.

[hanger4]

I am not naive nor am I young. I have seen plenty of hate and ignorance in my lifetime.

I just know the truth about Islam and arabs.

Then those thousands upon thousands of news articles documenting Christian persecution at the hands of Muslims are all lies ??

Like I said you're amazingly naive.

[Kizzume]

Trust yourself and your experience rather than media.

Ignore reality? No, sorry, I won't do that.

[shaarona]

Then those thousands upon thousands of news articles documenting Christian persecution at the hands of Muslims are all lies ??

Like I said you're amazingly naive.

Often times the "Christian Press" lies for their own purposes...

So when you read a story about "persecution" you may not know that these "Christians" were bootleggers and pornographers. The Christian press leaves out that part.

Take it from a Christian who has lived as a minority in the Muslim world.

LOLOL.. you have to be really, really stupid to get into trouble with the law in most Arab countries.

[hanger4]

Often times the "Christian Press" lies for their own purposes...


So when you read a story about "persecution" you may not know that these "Christians" were bootleggers and pornographers. The Christian press leaves out that part.



So the USA Today, The Huffington Post, NYTimes, The LATimes, just to mention a few are all the "Christian Press" ??


Girl, do you even think about the words you post ??


Do you have a clue ??


Not only do you wear rose colored glasses I believe they blinders on them also.

I apologize if I seem harsh, it's just that I never met/spoken to anyone as detached from reality as you seem to be.

[shaarona]

So the USA Today, The Huffington Post, NYTimes, The LATimes, just to mention a few are all the "Christian Press" ??


Girl, do you even think about the words you post ??


Do you have a clue ??


Not only do you wear rose colored glasses I believe they blinders on them also.

I apologize if I seem harsh, it's just that I never met/spoken to anyone as detached from reality as you seem to be.

They have no stringers on the ground.. It comes across the wire and they quote each other.

[hanger4]

They have no stringers on the ground.. It comes across the wire and they quote each other.

So now we're back to the "Christian Press"/stringers are all liars and have been duping the MSM for decades ??

Except you of course, you've always know these stringers have been duping the world.


:spacecraft:

[Kizzume]

They have no stringers on the ground.. It comes across the wire and they quote each other.

What other ridiculous conspiracy theories do you believe in? Do tell.

[JohnAdams]

Muhammed preached.. Save yourselves. I cannot save you. Return to the God of Abraham.I don't know what God intended.. since He doesn't speak to me.But, I do know that Christians have nothing to fear from Islam. Muhammad also preached:

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191


Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
that false prophet also taught his adherents:

"Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14"

So please spare me the innocent, peaceful muslim crap. I've read your quran liar, I know what it states, and I know it preach's hate and murder. Not the love of God.

[Deadwood]

Then those thousands upon thousands of news articles documenting Christian persecution at the hands of Muslims are all lies ??

Like I said you're amazingly naive.

Nope


Wrong


Stupid, and dishonest yes, but naive, no.

[shaarona]

Muhammad also preached:

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191


Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
that false prophet also taught his adherents:

"Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14"

So please spare me the innocent, peaceful muslim crap. I've read your quran liar, I know what it states, and I know it preach's hate and murder. Not the love of God.

Ah so you are reading the Koran.. Then you know the context is in the conduct of defensive war.

[hanger4]

So shaarona, how are you going to document the "Christian Press" lying all the years and duping the MSM ??

Inquiring minds want to know !!

[Deadwood]

So shaarona, how are you going to document the "Christian Press" lying all the years and duping the MSM ??

Inquiring minds want to know !!


She will rely on her personal experience of having met Mohamed while training to be an astronaut for a secret Arab space program while assisting the Muslims who were really behind Mother Theresa's efforts in India.

You can stop wasting your time. Shaarona has NEVER in the known universe provided documentation on any of her claims.

Let ignore be your friend on this one.

[Calypso Jones]

On the other hand, look at how muslims treat their neighbors, countrymen, christians, children, women and girls. churches, anyone who doesn't agree with them. You might even go by their own words about what they want to do to Israel and to the west. if you are a rational person, perhaps something will dawn on you.

[JohnAdams]

Ah so you are reading the Koran.. Then you know the context is in the conduct of defensive war. No it's not. Particularly 5:14 which states since you apparently cannot read the english language that well....

"THEREFORE WE STIRRED AMONG THEM ENMITY AND HATRED"

That is NOT defensive that is quite the bit OFFENSIVE.

Yet again you lie to defend this false and blasphemous so called religion Shaarona.

Since fear asked a question in the OP let me answer you fear with something....there have been in the past "moderates" who have condemned this alleged hijacking of their so called religion.

And the result was they got killed by their fellow adherent's of this so called religion.

http://article.wn.com/view/2012/09/10/16_moderate_Muslim_preachers_killed_in_Mali_4/

I would so love to see shaarona and the other mooslim apologists around here explaining that one....actually no I wouldn't because I know they'll bald faced lie through their teeth to justify and excuse the barbarism that is islam, just as ol bin laden used to do in his video's before the civilized world, and the United States in particular made him fish food. (literally)

[shaarona]

What other ridiculous conspiracy theories do you believe in? Do tell.

A stringer is a reporter in place.

But, follow up any of these stories .. Its always a crock.. Every bootlegger or pornographer or pimp always claims he's a Christian.

[shaarona]

No it's not. Particularly 5:14 which states since you apparently cannot read the english language that well....

"THEREFORE WE STIRRED AMONG THEM ENMITY AND HATRED"

That is NOT defensive that is quite the bit OFFENSIVE.

Yet again you lie to defend this false and blasphemous so called religion Shaarona.

Since fear asked a question in the OP let me answer you fear with something....there have been in the past "moderates" who have condemned this alleged hijacking of their so called religion.

And the result was they got killed by their fellow adherent's of this so called religion.

http://article.wn.com/view/2012/09/10/16_moderate_Muslim_preachers_killed_in_Mali_4/

I would so love to see shaarona and the other mooslim apologists around here explaining that one....actually no I wouldn't because I know they'll bald faced lie through their teeth to justify and excuse the barbarism that is islam, just as ol bin laden used to do in his video's before the civilized world, and the United States in particular made him fish food. (literally)

I am a Christian .. who attended Sunday school and Church and vacation Bible School in Saudi Arabia for nearly 2 decades.. without incident.

I look at what we have in common versus what we don't.. I don't second guess God or believe that Christians can get away with lies, hatred and ignorance..

You are are reading from some website out of context. You are reading from the scripture about defensive war.

Keep reading.. They are NOT allowed to kill women, children or non-combatants. They are not allowed to destroy crops or trees or water resources or homes...

You are working for the terrorists...

[Ivan88]

What other ridiculous conspiracy theories do you believe in? Do tell.
Me wonders what sort of "ridiculous conspiracy" hypothesis Kizzume believes in?

At least the guy he's ridiculing may believe in a theory rather than some political hypothesis party line dogma.

http://mysite.verizon.net/ress8ouv/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/stoppingit.JPG

[Kizzume]

Me wonders what sort of "ridiculous conspiracy" hypothesis Kizzume believes in?

At least the guy he's ridiculing may believe in a theory rather than some political hypothesis party line dogma.
Calling virtually all of media, including independent media, as in on some sort of conspiracy to make Islam look bad--yeah, I'm gonna call that a ridiculous conspiracy that's right up there with Alex Jones garbage.

[hanger4]

A stringer is a reporter in place.

But, follow up any of these stories .. Its always a crock.. Every bootlegger or pornographer or pimp always claims he's a Christian.

You made the statement girl, and have been called on it.

It's all on you to back it up !!

[JohnAdams]

I am a Christian .. who attended Sunday school and Church and vacation Bible School in Saudi Arabia for nearly 2 decades.. without incident.

I look at what we have in common versus what we don't.. I don't second guess God or believe that Christians can get away with lies, hatred and ignorance..

You are are reading from some website out of context. You are reading from the scripture about defensive war.

Keep reading.. They are NOT allowed to kill women, children or non-combatants. They are not allowed to destroy crops or trees or water resources or homes...

You are working for the terrorists...

A: BULL

B: I've already caught and exposed bald faced lies in your posts.

C: Obviously you didn't pay too much attention going to Vacation bible school and sunday school as if you had you would know that going to sunday school does not a Christian make.

[JohnAdams]

You made the statement girl, and have been called on it.

It's all on you to back it up !!

I would advise you not to hold your breath for that one....;)

[Deadwood]

No it's not. Particularly 5:14 which states since you apparently cannot read the english language that well....

"THEREFORE WE STIRRED AMONG THEM ENMITY AND HATRED"

That is NOT defensive that is quite the bit OFFENSIVE.

Yet again you lie to defend this false and blasphemous so called religion Shaarona.

Since fear asked a question in the OP let me answer you fear with something....there have been in the past "moderates" who have condemned this alleged hijacking of their so called religion.

And the result was they got killed by their fellow adherent's of this so called religion.

http://article.wn.com/view/2012/09/10/16_moderate_Muslim_preachers_killed_in_Mali_4/

I would so love to see shaarona and the other mooslim apologists around here explaining that one....actually no I wouldn't because I know they'll bald faced lie through their teeth to justify and excuse the barbarism that is islam, just as ol bin laden used to do in his video's before the civilized world, and the United States in particular made him fish food. (literally)

149 posts to get an answer to a simple question, I suggest, says all that needs be said.

[Calypso Jones]

A stringer is a reporter in place.

But, follow up any of these stories .. Its always a crock.. Every bootlegger or pornographer or pimp always claims he's a Christian.

as well as you.

[JohnAdams]

A stringer is a reporter in place.

But, follow up any of these stories .. Its always a crock.. Every bootlegger or pornographer or pimp always claims he's a Christian.

So do lying muslims but hey we won't hold that against you shaarona. God will still forgive your defense of this idolatrous religion so long as you repent of sin, and accept the sacrifice of his son.

FWIW I myself forgive you for your lies and defense of the barbarism that is islam. You don't know any better and can't help yourself, the spiritual children of lucifer never can.

As is evidenced by the fact we are conversing and you are not enjoying an all expenses paid residence in ignoredsville. ;)

[Kizzume]

God will still forgive your defense of this idolatrous religion so long as you repent of sin, and accept the sacrifice of his son.

You don't know any better and can't help yourself, the spiritual children of lucifer never can.

Yawn...

[Deadwood]

Calling virtually all of media, including independent media, as in on some sort of conspiracy to make Islam look bad--yeah, I'm gonna call that a ridiculous conspiracy that's right up there with Alex Jones garbage.


You're giving Alex Jones a lot of credit.


Consider this. Reporters make their reputation and living by exposing corruption. Wouldn't it make sense that a reporter, involved even on the periphery of corruption would make a name for himself or herself if there was a conspiracy?


Oh wait...sense is not something familiar to this poster.

Sorry, carry on.

[JohnAdams]

Yawn...

I"m sorry you are bored, and for causing you to perceive I give a damn if you are.

[Kizzume]

I"m sorry you are bored, and for causing you to perceive I give a damn if you are.

I guess it IS in the religious section of the forum. I find it mildly irritating that you're unable to keep from religious proselytizing in your posts. It's a bunch of fluff, it adds nothing, so I thought I'd add nothing too by saying "yawn".

[Kizzume]

You're giving Alex Jones a lot of credit.


Consider this. Reporters make their reputation and living by exposing corruption. Wouldn't it make sense that a reporter, involved even on the periphery of corruption would make a name for himself or herself if there was a conspiracy?


Oh wait...sense is not something familiar to this poster.

Sorry, carry on.

Sorry, but there's no "sense" to what you're saying. It's a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

EDIT: I can't actually tell what you're saying here. It could have been sarcastic. I initially thought you were supporting Shaarona.

[Ivan88]

You're giving Alex Jones a lot of credit.


Consider this. Reporters make their reputation and living by exposing corruption. Wouldn't it make sense that a reporter, involved even on the periphery of corruption would make a name for himself or herself if there was a conspiracy?

Might be true in some places. But is not true in a country that loves lies, and where exposers of our national sins are fired, condemned and sometimes killed.

[Deadwood]

Sorry, but there's no "sense" to what you're saying. It's a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

EDIT: I can't actually tell what you're saying here. It could have been sarcastic. I initially thought you were supporting Shaarona.



No problem....


we do indeed need a sarcasm font.