If gay marriage becomes legal...

[GrassrootsConservative]

Wedding planners will finally be able to plan their own weddings.

[Seriy]

Also, there will be modern Sodom and Gomorrah and the coming up God's final indignation against America.

[Deadwood]

Also, there will be modern Sodom and Gomorrah and the coming up God's final indignation against America.

If that were the case then God would have wrought his vengeance with the first homosexual Pope. Or maybe the one with a half dozen wives AND some pretty young boys in his stable. How about the one who passed the Papacy on to his illegitimate son who sold it?

And where was that vengeance when Catholic priests were ass raping choir boys?

The indignant right needs to have a good look at history and a good read of scripture. The story of Sodom and Gomorah had nothing to do with homosexuality; the people rioted demanding to be allowed to have sex with angels, beings not of their species.

[Chris]

How did Sodom and Gomorrah ever get associated with homosexuality any how?

[oceanloverOH]

How did Sodom and Gomorrah ever get associated with homosexuality any how?

I don't know about Gomorrah.....but the term "sodomy" is normally associated with male homosexuals.

[Seriy]

If that were the case then God would have wrought his vengeance with the first homosexual Pope. Or maybe the one with a half dozen wives AND some pretty young boys in his stable. How about the one who passed the Papacy on to his illegitimate son who sold it?

And where was that vengeance when Catholic priests were ass raping choir boys?

The indignant right needs to have a good look at history and a good read of scripture. The story of Sodom and Gomorah had nothing to do with homosexuality; the people rioted demanding to be allowed to have sex with angels, beings not of their species.
The Catholic Church is not a Christian Church of Jesus Christ. She is IDed as Great Whore of Satan and cult of idolaters and, of course pedophile bishops, monks, pastors, and popes themselves who pray on little boys. All dead popes including this bastard Pope John Paul ll are in Hell.

[Chris]

I don't know about Gomorrah.....but the term "sodomy" is normally associated with male homosexuals.

Right, but how did this association come about?

[Seriy]

I don't know about Gomorrah.....but the term "sodomy" is normally associated with male homosexuals.
Yes it is. Helping verse is Jude 1:7.

[Chris]

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Nope.

[Seriy]

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Nope.
Strange flesh means homosexuality. Also, in Genesis 19:1-29 sodomites wanted to kill Lot and his family in order to attack and rape angels who came to rescue Lot.

[Chris]

Strange flesh means homosexuality. Also, in Genesis 19:1-29 sodomites wanted to kill Lot and his family in order to attack and rape angels who came to rescue Lot.

No it doesn't.


Also, in Genesis 19:1-29 sodomites wanted to kill Lot and his family in order to attack and rape angels who came to rescue Lot.

Angels are asexual. Angels would be strange flesh.


So where did this association come from?

[Seriy]

No it doesn't.



Angels are asexual. Angels would be strange flesh.


So where did this association come from?
Those sodomites wanted to rape those angels in human forms who came to redeem Lot by force, no matter they were asexual.

[Seriy]

No it doesn't.



Angels are asexual. Angels would be strange flesh.


So where did this association come from?
Those sodomites wanted to rape those angels in human forms who came to redeem Lot by force, no matter they were asexual. Angels are holy and are never strange flesh. Strange flaesh stands for perversions of sex like GLBT.

[Chris]

Those sodomites wanted to rape those angels in human forms who came to redeem Lot by force, no matter they were asexual.

Strange flesh indeed!

Whatever, the question is how did the association with homosexuality come about?

[Chris]

Those sodomites wanted to rape those angels in human forms who came to redeem Lot by force, no matter they were asexual. Angels are holy and are never strange flesh. Strange flaesh stands for perversions of sex like GLBT.

Because you say so? Not good enough. Stick to the Bible, please.

[Chris]

Getting back to the Bible...

Ezekiel 16:49-50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

[Chris]

This is what Jesus had to say:

Matthew 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

The sin was inhospitality.

[Seriy]

The entire Epistle by Jude tells plenty about Sodom dealing with gay sin. Don't forget why God hates GLBT. Here Leviticus 18:22. Romans 1:25-27,32. 2 Peter 2:6-13 where gays are described as natural brute beasts.

[Chris]

The entire Epistle by Jude tells plenty about Sodom dealing with gay sin. Don't forget why God hates GLBT. Here Leviticus 18:22. Romans 1:25-27,32. 2 Peter 2:6-13 where gays are described as natural brute beasts.

"natural brute beasts" would again be "Strange flesh". Nothing to do with homosexuality.


That leaves Jude--are you saying Jude disagrees with Jesus in Matthew 10:14-15?

[Carygrant]

Wedding planners will finally be able to plan their own weddings.

A day for people of good will and good heart to rejoice .
One more step to suppress the fanatics and religious bully people .

[Seriy]

A day for people of good will and good heart to rejoice .
One more step to suppress the fanatics and religious bully people .
But why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, towns of gays, by fire and cast those sodomites to Hell? Genesis 19:1-29, Jude 1:7. What did The Lord give Moses in Leviticus 18:22 ? What did Lord Jesus give His Apostles Peter and Paul in Romans 1:25-27,32 , 2 Peter 2: 6-13 ? Why were great empires like Greece, Mighty Rome, etc brought down as they walked the road according to Romans 1:18-32 where all decays including GLBT acceptance are mentioned ?

[Chris]

But why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, towns of gays, by fire and cast those sodomites to Hell? Genesis 19:1-29, Jude 1:7. What did The Lord give Moses in Leviticus 18:22 ? What did Lord Jesus give His Apostles Peter and Paul in Romans 1:25-27,32 , 2 Peter 2: 6-13 ? Why were great empires like Greece, Mighty Rome, etc brought down as they walked the road according to Romans 1:18-32 where all decays including GLBT acceptance are mentioned ?

Despite what Jesus said?

[Seriy]

It might be hateful for many here, but I must to tell about God's warning. As New York state and shameless NYC dared to legalize same sex so-called marriage against citizens will without people vote, the unusual tragedies hit NYC and neighboring states where also gays get wed. Hurricane Irene and the most tragic Hurricane Sandy. NYC never experience this huge natural calamity ever before, so did neighboring Conneticut . Yes, it is wrath of God.
This might be so-called hateful statement for those who reject Christ and ignore God, but we can't outsmart Him for He is Sovereign God Who is not mocked, Galatians 6:7, and He hates all workers of sin, Psalm 5:5,7:11. Nahum 1:1-15.

[Chris]

It might be hateful for many here, but I must to tell about God's warning. As New York state and shameless NYC dared to legalize same sex so-called marriage against citizens will without people vote, the unusual tragedies hit NYC and neighboring states where also gays get wed. Hurricane Irene and the most tragic Hurricane Sandy. NYC never experience this huge natural calamity ever before, so did neighboring Conneticut . Yes, it is wrath of God.

Despite what Jesus said?

[Seriy]

Jesus said, " unless you repent, you all will likewise perish ", Luke 13:5. That what Jesus said.

[Chris]

Jesus said, " unless you repent, you all will likewise perish ", Luke 13:5. That what Jesus said.

And this is what Jesus said about the topic: Matthew 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

So repent of inhospitality and be saved.

[Seriy]

And this is what Jesus said about the topic: Matthew 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

So repent of inhospitality and be saved.
It means Sodom and Gomorrah might be repented, if there had been a preacher of God who had come to warn sodomites to repent from sins that GLBT. There was an example about pagan city of Nineveh whose people repented at the preaching of Jonah, so God spared Nineveh from destruction that could be equal to Sodom.
If people of Sodom and Gomorrah had repented of their sexual perversion and had obeyed God, they would stay till today in today's modern Israel. However, they had Lot who warned sodomites about God's anger that would come one day against them due to their homosexual lusts.

[Chris]

It means Sodom and Gomorrah might be repented, if there had been a preacher of God who had come to warn sodomites to repent from sins that GLBT. There was an example about pagan city of Nineveh whose people repented at the preaching of Jonah, so God spared Nineveh from destruction that could be equal to Sodom.
If people of Sodom and Gomorrah had repented of their sexual perversion and had obeyed God, they would stay till today in today's modern Israel. However, they had Lot who warned sodomites about God's anger that would come one day against them due to their homosexual lusts.

You haven't connected Sodom and Gomorrah to homosexuality yet. If Jesus said it was a sin of inhospitality, and Jude or anyone else disagrees, I'd go with Jesus, they got it wrong--or you're misinterpreting.

Anyway, interesting discussion. Thanks.

[Seriy]

You haven't connected Sodom and Gomorrah to homosexuality yet. If Jesus said it was a sin of inhospitality, and Jude or anyone else disagrees, I'd go with Jesus, they got it wrong--or you're misinterpreting.

Anyway, interesting discussion. Thanks.
Besides inhospitality according to Ezekiel, it is always mentioned with gay perversion. Why do you attempt to reject Jude and Genesis 19:1-29? If have still confusion, go to good True Christian sites or consult with good Christian pastors.

[Chris]

Besides inhospitality according to Ezekiel, it is always mentioned with gay perversion. Why do you attempt to reject Jude and Genesis 19:1-29? If have still confusion, go to good True Christian sites or consult with good Christian pastors.

Why do you reject what Jesus said?

[Seriy]

Why do you reject what Jesus said?
I don't ever dare to reject what Lord Jesus said. Remember, the strange flesh means the flesh of abnormal sexual orientation that is contradicts natural sex between man+woman. Strange flesh stand for gays and sex with animals.
According to your attempts, Chris, you defend sin, but not God's Truth.

[RightWingExtremist]

Right, but how did this association come about?

The term Sodomy. Area known as Sodom.

[RightWingExtremist]

You haven't connected Sodom and Gomorrah to homosexuality yet. If Jesus said it was a sin of inhospitality, and Jude or anyone else disagrees, I'd go with Jesus, they got it wrong--or you're misinterpreting.

Anyway, interesting discussion. Thanks.

Check this out.

The Only One That Fits
The prevailing modern view of the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is that the attempted rape of Lot's visitors violated the Mid-East's high code of hospitality (19:9). This inhospitality, however, is an inference, not a specific point made in the text itself.Further, the inhospitality charge is dependent upon—and eclipsed by—the greater crime of rape, yet neither could be the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah because God planned to judge the cities long before either had been committed. What possibility is left? Only one. We know the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were homosexual, "both young and old, all the people from every quarter" (19:6), to the point of disregarding available women (19:5-8). After they were struck sightless they still persisted (19:11). These men were totally given over to an overwhelming passion that did not abate even when they were supernaturally blinded by angels.

Homosexuality fits the biblical details. It was the sin that epitomized the gross wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah—the "grave," "ungodly," "lawless," "sensual conduct of unprincipled men" that tormented Lot as he "saw and heard" it "day after day," the "corrupt desire" of those that went after "strange flesh." In their defense, some will cite Ezekiel 16:49-50: "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it." No mention of homosexuality here.

Clearly, the general wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah was great. That's not in question. Our concern here is whether homosexuality was part of that wickedness. Our analysis of Genesis shows that homosexuality was the principle behavior at issue in that passage. Ezekiel simply enumerates additional sins. The prophet doesn't contradict Moses, but rather gives more detail.
Stinginess and arrogance alone did not draw God's wrath. Ezekiel anchored the list of crimes with the word "abominations." This word takes us right back to homosexuality. The conduct Moses refers to in Genesis 18 he later describes in Leviticus as an "abomination" in God’s eyes.

http://www.str.org/site/News2?id=5702

[Chris]

I don't ever dare to reject what Lord Jesus said. Remember, the strange flesh means the flesh of abnormal sexual orientation that is contradicts natural sex between man+woman. Strange flesh stand for gays and sex with animals.
According to your attempts, Chris, you defend sin, but not God's Truth.

Now you're making things up, isn't that a sin? How will you be redeemed?

I cited what Jesus had to say. You disagreed with Him, not me.

Here's what Jesus said, defy Him if you like: Matthew 10:14-15



And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.


Here's some more of what Jesus said:

Matthew 22:36-40:



Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

[Chris]

Check this out.

The Only One That Fits
The prevailing modern view of the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is that the attempted rape of Lot's visitors violated the Mid-East's high code of hospitality (19:9). This inhospitality, however, is an inference, not a specific point made in the text itself.Further, the inhospitality charge is dependent upon—and eclipsed by—the greater crime of rape, yet neither could be the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah because God planned to judge the cities long before either had been committed. What possibility is left? Only one. We know the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were homosexual, "both young and old, all the people from every quarter" (19:6), to the point of disregarding available women (19:5-8). After they were struck sightless they still persisted (19:11). These men were totally given over to an overwhelming passion that did not abate even when they were supernaturally blinded by angels.

Homosexuality fits the biblical details. It was the sin that epitomized the gross wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah—the "grave," "ungodly," "lawless," "sensual conduct of unprincipled men" that tormented Lot as he "saw and heard" it "day after day," the "corrupt desire" of those that went after "strange flesh." In their defense, some will cite Ezekiel 16:49-50: "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it." No mention of homosexuality here.

Clearly, the general wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah was great. That's not in question. Our concern here is whether homosexuality was part of that wickedness. Our analysis of Genesis shows that homosexuality was the principle behavior at issue in that passage. Ezekiel simply enumerates additional sins. The prophet doesn't contradict Moses, but rather gives more detail.
Stinginess and arrogance alone did not draw God's wrath. Ezekiel anchored the list of crimes with the word "abominations." This word takes us right back to homosexuality. The conduct Moses refers to in Genesis 18 he later describes in Leviticus as an "abomination" in God’s eyes.

http://www.str.org/site/News2?id=5702

Sorry, but you're way outside the Bible in your interpretation.


The prevailing modern view of the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is that the attempted rape of Lot's visitors violated the Mid-East's high code of hospitality

That's what Jesus says Matthew 10:14-15.


This inhospitality, however, is an inference, not a specific point made in the text itself.

So you disagree with Jesus?


Further, the inhospitality charge is dependent upon—and eclipsed by—the greater crime of rape, yet neither could be the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah because God planned to judge the cities long before either had been committed.

Yes, the rape of strange flesh--angels. Look at the story, that's what happens.


What possibility is left? Only one.

Your personal interpretation is all that's left. Or rather the man you read and repeat.


We know the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were homosexual

Bible doesn't say that.


Ezekiel 16:49-50.... No mention of homosexuality here.

Correct.


Our concern here is whether homosexuality was part of that wickedness.

Right, that's where this discussion started, how did this association with homosexuality come about. It's not in the Bible.

[roadmaster]

I don't ever dare to reject what Lord Jesus said. Remember, the strange flesh means the flesh of abnormal sexual orientation that is contradicts natural sex between man+woman. Strange flesh stand for gays and sex with animals.
According to your attempts, Chris, you defend sin, but not God's Truth.
He clearly says men shall not lay with men nor women with women. It was never His intent. People can twist His words but it still comes out the same.

[RightWingExtremist]

Right, that's where this discussion started, how did this association with homosexuality come about. It's not in the Bible.

Then all the men of the city surrounded Lot's house and said, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." (Genesis 19:5, NIV) (Its a wonder you didn't see this one.)

By ancient custom, the visitors were under Lot's protection. Lot was so infected by the wickedness of Sodom that he offered the homosexuals his two virgin daughters instead. Furious, the mob rushed up to break down the door.

[Chloe]

If a gay couple loves each other and wants to commit their lives to each other then there is no reason in my opinion why they shouldn't be given the same opportunity as a straight couple to be married. The love between two gay people is no weaker than the love between two straight people. I think that if people spent more time appreciating, respecting, and wanting the best for people that happen to be different from them then gay marriage wouldn't be an issue.

[GrassrootsConservative]

If a gay couple loves each other and wants to commit their lives to each other then there is no reason in my opinion why they shouldn't be given the same opportunity as a straight couple to be married. The love between two gay people is no weaker than the love between two straight people. I think that if people spent more time appreciating, respecting, and wanting the best for people that happen to be different from them then gay marriage wouldn't be an issue.

What about pedophiles? Their love is no weaker than the love between two consenting adults.

It's a slippery slope, Chloe.

Should a man be allowed to marry a child? An animal?

They're just different from you and me!!! Why can't you accept them?

That's why I draw the line at allowing gays to marry.

[Chloe]

What about pedophiles? Their love is no weaker than the love between two consenting adults.

It's a slippery slope, Chloe.

Should a man be allowed to marry a child? An animal?

They're just different from you and me!!! Why can't you accept them?

That's why I draw the line at allowing gays to marry.

So you're objection is not about gay marriage then, you are in favor of gay marriage, it's just you are protecting gay people by not allowing them to marry because of the slippery slope that other people might want to marry an animal or child. So basically gay people are just taking one for the team so that the truly bad things can't get married???

[Chloe]

Also a pedophile marriage wouldn't be between two consenting adults since pedophiles target children. Also a horse can't express any sort of consent towards a human because it is a different species. We are talking about two men or two women wanting to get married. It would not destroy marriage, divorce does that.

[GrassrootsConservative]

So you're objection is not about gay marriage then, you are in favor of gay marriage, it's just you are protecting gay people by not allowing them to marry because of the slippery slope that other people might want to marry an animal or child. So basically gay people are just taking one for the team so that the truly bad things can't get married???

Yeah. Gays are fine by me. I've had a couple gay friends. Really nice people.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Also a pedophile marriage wouldn't be between two consenting adults since pedophiles target children. Also a horse can't express any sort of consent towards a human because it is a different species. We are talking about two men or two women wanting to get married. It would not destroy marriage, divorce does that.

I said "Their love is no weaker than 2 consenting adults."

I was creating a parody of your line about gay love not being weaker than straight love.

[Chloe]

Yeah. Gays are fine by me. I've had a couple gay friends. Really nice people.

Ignoring the slippery slope for a moment. What would be your objection to gay marriage? It's obviously not due to religious beliefs I get that, but what reasons would you have besides the slippery slope argument? Do you sincerely think that two gay men or two gay women would really destroy marriage?

[GrassrootsConservative]

Ignoring the slippery slope for a moment. What would be your objection to gay marriage? It's obviously not due to religious beliefs I get that, but what reasons would you have besides the slippery slope argument? Do you sincerely think that two gay men or two gay women would really destroy marriage?

Marriage is a religious concept. My own religious beliefs (or lack thereof) or those of a politician should have no bearing on whether or not a church marries 2 men or 2 women. The government CANNOT force them to marry against the religious beliefs of the church. That's why many Religions come to America in the first place, to escape big-government persecutions EXACTLY like the ones that the Dems wish to place on the Christians.

[Chloe]

Marriage is a religious concept. My own religious beliefs (or lack thereof) or those of a politician should have no bearing on whether or not a church marries 2 men or 2 women. The government CANNOT force them to marry against the religious beliefs of the church. That's why many Religions come to America in the first place, to escape big-government persecutions EXACTLY like the ones that the Dems wish to place on the Christians.

If it is a religious concept then which religion? Also when it comes to churches if a church doesn't want to marry someone then that's fine, I don't think they should be forced either, but if that happens then they should still be able to get married anywhere else in my opinion.

[GrassrootsConservative]

If it is a religious concept then which religion? Also when it comes to churches if a church doesn't want to marry someone then that's fine, I don't think they should be forced either, but if that happens then they should still be able to get married anywhere else in my opinion.

Marriage predates most recorded history, so that's hard to decipher, but traditional marriages as we know them (1 man, 1 woman) is definitely a Christian idea (Hence the commandment about adultery [lusting for someone who is not the 1 man or 1 woman you married] being a sin)

[RightWingExtremist]

Let Gay people marry. But not in a place that doesn't condone it due to it's religious beliefs. As GC pointed out, it would be unfair to the people of that faith if you made them do things that were against their precepts. At any rate,

"congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

So if homosexuals wish to marry, they need to find a religion that condones such a practice, and petition them to let them be wed. Don't force it on Christians.

[roadmaster]

If it is a religious concept then which religion? Also when it comes to churches if a church doesn't want to marry someone then that's fine, I don't think they should be forced either, but if that happens then they should still be able to get married anywhere else in my opinion.
No one tried to stop with civil unions with benefits but when it comes to telling us we have to believe the same way they do is when the problem started.

[Chris]

He clearly says men shall not lay with men nor women with women. It was never His intent. People can twist His words but it still comes out the same.

And it says this where? Jesus doesn't say it.

[Chris]

Let Gay people marry. But not in a place that doesn't condone it due to it's religious beliefs. As GC pointed out, it would be unfair to the people of that faith if you made them do things that were against their precepts. At any rate,

"congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

So if homosexuals wish to marry, they need to find a religion that condones such a practice, and petition them to let them be wed. Don't force it on Christians.

Just get government out of it altogether.

[Seriy]

So you're objection is not about gay marriage then, you are in favor of gay marriage, it's just you are protecting gay people by not allowing them to marry because of the slippery slope that other people might want to marry an animal or child. So basically gay people are just taking one for the team so that the truly bad things can't get married???
You reject God's Word, Chloe. You need to read KJV Bible and fear God, because those who reject Jesus and defend sins like gay rights will end up in Hell along with those gays. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

[Chloe]

Marriage predates most recorded history, so that's hard to decipher, but traditional marriages as we know them (1 man, 1 woman) is definitely a Christian idea (Hence the commandment about adultery [lusting for someone who is not the 1 man or 1 woman you married] being a sin)

FYI the 10 commandments aren't a Christian idea they are Jewish.

Also if that's the case then why would Christianity drive the marriage laws in this country if the establishment clause prohibits that? Marriage has been around for centuries and has included all religions in the concept as well as the unreligious. Just because Christianity took it to the next level doesn't make it law in a secular country.

[Chloe]

You reject God's Word, Chloe. You need to read KJV Bible and fear God, because those who reject Jesus and defend sins like gay rights will end up in Hell along with those gays. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

I'm Jewish

[RightWingExtremist]

And it says this where? Jesus doesn't say it.

Stop nitpicking.

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)

[GrassrootsConservative]

You reject God's Word, Chloe. You need to read KJV Bible and fear God, because those who reject Jesus and defend sins like gay rights will end up in Hell along with those gays. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

Nonchristians don't follow the bible. Silly concept.

[Chris]

You reject God's Word, Chloe. You need to read KJV Bible and fear God, because those who reject Jesus and defend sins like gay rights will end up in Hell along with those gays. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

You reject Jesus' words, seriy, I've more than demonstrated that, so stop your accusing others.

[Chris]

Stop nitpicking.

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)

I'm not nitpicking, I'm citing Jesus' words.

Leviticus is about temple rituals.

[Chloe]

Let Gay people marry. But not in a place that doesn't condone it due to it's religious beliefs. As GC pointed out, it would be unfair to the people of that faith if you made them do things that were against their precepts. At any rate,

"congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

So if homosexuals wish to marry, they need to find a religion that condones such a practice, and petition them to let them be wed. Don't force it on Christians.

Ok so then you support gay marriage as long as it is not done inside a church

[Seriy]

Ok so then you support gay marriage as long as it is not done inside a church
Gays can't reproduce and can't be recognized as a married couple. They are perverted sick people.

[Seriy]

Homosexuals introduced AIDS to America in 1980s. Remember this tragic part of history.

[Chloe]

Gays can't reproduce and can't be recognized as a married couple. They are perverted sick people.

Reproduction is not a prerequisite for marriage.

Also judging people and insulting people because they may be different from you is very unkind and not something that is probably going to sway people to join your faith if that's the belief someone has to have in order to be spared hell.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Homosexuals introduced AIDS to America in 1980s. Remember this tragic part of history.

And God introduced the homosexual.

Created us in his image (according to you Christians).

That makes Jesus gay, too.

[RightWingExtremist]

I'm not nitpicking, I'm citing Jesus' words.

Leviticus is about temple rituals.

Yeah you are, and here are Jesus' words.

And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4 NIV)

Since Jesus approved of His Father’s plan (i.e., one man, one woman, one flesh,) we could correctly say that Jesus condemned homosexuality.

And whats more, he didn't have to physically say anything about homosexuality, Chris, by his acknowledgement that marriage was between a man and a woman, he therefore repudiated any notion that he himself or his father in heaven condoned homosexuality in any of its forms.

[RightWingExtremist]

But let me add however, that the Bible did teach us this:

Tolerance and love, not obligatory acceptance---

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.

John 13:34-35

By this, I believe The Bible intends for us not to mistreat others for being different (gay), but loving them as God loves us. In hopes that they may see the sin in their ways. God loves us all, the sin one in their soul is between them and the the Lord Almighty. So

Judge not lest ye be judged

Matthew 7:1

[Chris]

Yeah you are, and here are Jesus' words.

And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4 NIV)

Since Jesus approved of His Father’s plan (i.e., one man, one woman, one flesh,) we could correctly say that Jesus condemned homosexuality.

And whats more, he didn't have to physically say anything about homosexuality, Chris, by his acknowledgement that marriage was between a man and a woman, he therefore repudiated any notion that he himself or his father in heaven condoned homosexuality in any of its forms.

You're stretching things there. That says nothing at all about homosexuality or Sodom and Gomorrah.

Again, this is what Jesus said about that: Matthew 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

The question remains, how did it come about that homosexuality was associated with Sodom and Gomorrah?

[RightWingExtremist]

You're stretching things there. That says nothing at all about homosexuality or Sodom and Gomorrah.

Again, this is what Jesus said about that: Matthew 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.

The question remains, how did it come about that homosexuality was associated with Sodom and Gomorrah?

It is quite obvious you are hellbent on believing your own interpretation of the Bible. I stopped trying to convince you an hour ago. I quoted the exact verse where one could link the city to homosexuality, and what primarily resulted in its eventual destruction. One last time.

1) Lot meets two angels disguised as men at the edge of the city
2) Lot invites the two angels to stay the night at his home, and the angels agree
3) The angels' splendor became too irresistible for the male inhabitants of the city, and their libidos kicked in.
4) With that, this crowd of sexually crazed men gathered at Lot's home.
5) They asked, "Where are the men you brought home with you tonight? Bring them out so that we may have sex with them."
6) Instead of appeasing their demands, Lot offers his two daughters to them. After discovering that they were not going to get what they desired, they became enraged and tore down the door.
7) Sensing the danger and the evil that Lot had perpetrated, the two angels struck all of the men blind, yet still their sinful passions drove them on.
8) So, the two angels quickly fled to the city of Zoar along with the two daughters of Lot, while the place known as Sodom and Gomorrah was razed to the ground by God Almighty.

If you don't like the answer, I implore you to stop asking the question.

[Adelaide]

Gays can't reproduce and can't be recognized as a married couple. They are perverted sick people.

So reproduction is necessary in order for you to accept marriage? What about individuals who are infertile or don't wish to have children - are they to be prohibited from marrying the person they love, as well?

[Peter1469]

Just get government out of it altogether.

You beat me to it.

[Seriy]

Any nation that recognizes homosexuality as a normal innocent alternative lifestyle will be brought down by God. God brought down Rome as the empire turned to acceptance of this filthy sin. Homosexual agenda is dangerous. Gay activists impose their filth down our kids throats in public schools. In the UK as sodomites established their rules, parents are no longer permitted to be called as moms and dads, but as parent A and parent B. Sodom is coming back.

[Peter1469]

You're stretching things there. That says nothing at all about homosexuality or Sodom and Gomorrah.

Again, this is what Jesus said about that: Matthew 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

The question remains, how did it come about that homosexuality was associated with Sodom and Gomorrah?


You need to close the New Testament and open the Old Testament to answer that.

[Chloe]

Any nation that recognizes homosexuality as a normal innocent alternative lifestyle will be brought down by God. God brought down Rome as the empire turned to acceptance of this filthy sin. Homosexual agenda is dangerous. Gay activists impose their filth down our kids throats in public schools. In the UK as sodomites established their rules, parents are no longer permitted to be called as moms and dads, but as parent A and parent B. Sodom is coming back.

So two gay people who love each other and care for each other will cause god to destroy the country but not the murders, thefts, rapes, wars, and so on that the country takes part in? That's bull shit i'm sorry.

[Adelaide]

Any nation that recognizes homosexuality as a normal innocent alternative lifestyle will be brought down by God. God brought down Rome as the empire turned to acceptance of this filthy sin. Homosexual agenda is dangerous. Gay activists impose their filth down our kids throats in public schools. In the UK as sodomites established their rules, parents are no longer permitted to be called as moms and dads, but as parent A and parent B. Sodom is coming back.

It's working out great for us, (Canada). Have yet to be smitten, but will keep you updated. As a world leader in same-sex rights, we have a great system in place.

[Seriy]

It's working out great for us, (Canada). Have yet to be smitten, but will keep you updated. As a world leader in same-sex rights, we have a great system in place.Canada is doomed likewise the UK and likewise the whole EU where sodomites dominate. Russia is the island of Christian morality pushing ban on GLBT propaganda to minors. Whore Madonna and then Lady Gaga or Caca got a smite from Russian citizens.

[Captain Obvious]

I have no idea why heterosexuals feel so threatened by gay marriage.

None whatsoever.

[Adelaide]

Canada is doomed likewise the UK and likewise the whole EU where sodomites dominate. Russia is the island of Christian morality pushing ban on GLBT propaganda to minors. Whore Madonna and then Lady Gaga or Caca got a smite from Russian citizens.

I'm willing to bet God has bigger fish to fry.

[Chris]

It is quite obvious you are hellbent on believing your own interpretation of the Bible. I stopped trying to convince you an hour ago. I quoted the exact verse where one could link the city to homosexuality, and what primarily resulted in its eventual destruction. One last time.

1) Lot meets two angels disguised as men at the edge of the city
2) Lot invites the two angels to stay the night at his home, and the angels agree
3) The angels' splendor became too irresistible for the male inhabitants of the city, and their libidos kicked in.
4) With that, this crowd of sexually crazed men gathered at Lot's home.
5) They asked, "Where are the men you brought home with you tonight? Bring them out so that we may have sex with them."
6) Instead of appeasing their demands, Lot offers his two daughters to them. After discovering that they were not going to get what they desired, they became enraged and tore down the door.
7) Sensing the danger and the evil that Lot had perpetrated, the two angels struck all of the men blind, yet still their sinful passions drove them on.
8) So, the two angels quickly fled to the city of Zoar along with the two daughters of Lot, while the place known as Sodom and Gomorrah was razed to the ground by God Almighty.

If you don't like the answer, I implore you to stop asking the question.

What interpretation is that, extremist? All I've done is cite what Jesus said about Sodom and Gomorrah. No need for interpretation, he was plain spoken. I'll leave all the interpretation to you and your sources.


"Lot meets two angels..."

Yes, I know that.


Matthew 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

[Chris]

You need to close the New Testament and open the Old Testament to answer that.

The OT says same as Jesus said...

Matthew 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Well, except for those two angels, strange flesh.

[Seriy]

I have no idea why heterosexuals feel so threatened by gay marriage.

None whatsoever.
What about Massachussets and other states where queer so-called marriages were legalized without people's votes against their constitutional will by activist judges? Children became targets at public schools who are forced to study gay lessons. In Boston the school forced poor kids to read schizophrenic tale about two kings who fell in love, got, married, and did sodomy in bed. Angry God fearing Christian parents filed the law suit against this filthy school, but a queer ass kissing judge denied their case. Also in this feces eating UK the pro-GLBT government banned words in families like moms and dads in favor of parent A and parent B. Sodom and Gomorrah is back after 4,000 years. God's anger is coming.

[Captain Obvious]

What about Massachussets and other states where queer so-called marriages were legalized without people's votes against their constitutional will by activist judges? Children became targets at public schools who are forced to study gay lessons. In Boston the school forced poor kids to read schizophrenic tale about two kings who fell in love, got, married, and did sodomy in bed. Angry God fearing Christian parents filed the law suit against this filthy school, but a queer ass kissing judge denied their case. Also in this feces eating UK the pro-GLBT government banned words in families like moms and dads in favor of parent A and parent B. Sodom and Gomorrah is back after 4,000 years. God's anger is coming.

It's a kooky religious thing - that part I get.

What I don't get is why heterosexuals feel threatened by what people want to do in their own privacy.

The legislative aspect, the school teaching thing - all of that is secondary. What is primary is the concept of personal freedom and why someone feels threatened by what someone else wants to do with their life.

[Seriy]

It's a kooky religious thing - that part I get.

What I don't get is why heterosexuals feel threatened by what people want to do in their own privacy.

The legislative aspect, the school teaching thing - all of that is secondary. What is primary is the concept of personal freedom and why someone feels threatened by what someone else wants to do with their life.
Because you reject Christ and don't read your KJV Bible daily, that why you defend sins unaware that Hell is real and God is never mocked. Galatians 6:7.
Anyone and any nation who will accept homosexuality as a normal innocent secondary lifestyle will be doomed to fall. Romans 1:18-32.

[Chloe]

Because you reject Christ and don't read your KJV Bible daily, that why you defend sins unaware that Hell is real and God is never mocked. Galatians 6:7.
Anyone and any nation who will accept homosexuality as a normal innocent secondary lifestyle will be doomed to fall. Romans 1:18-32.

The threat of hell or eternal damnation shouldn't be the primary reason to believe in something. Doing good things for people, living life as well as you can, and treating others as you would want to be treated is far more healthier, moral and Godly than condemning and judging a person different from you in order to justify your own twisted beliefs and interpretation of a sentence.

Nobody is perfect. There are 613 commandments for me to follow as a Jew, 10 for you, and by no means will anybody ever follow them all perfectly.

[Chloe]

Oh and the nation will be just fine if two gay people get married

[Chris]

The threat of hell or eternal damnation shouldn't be the primary reason to believe in something. Doing good things for people, living life as well as you can, and treating others as you would want to be treated is far more healthier, moral and Godly than condemning and judging a person different from you in order to justify your own twisted beliefs and interpretation of a sentence.

Nobody is perfect. There are 613 commandments for me to follow as a Jew, 10 for you, and by no means will anybody ever follow them all perfectly.

613, yikes.

The US adds about 40,000 new laws a year lately.

I can understand faith in God, not faith in government.

[Peter1469]

Was not Lot and his family the only "just" people let in S & G? We have a long way to go to get down to one good family.

Another theory was that the people of S&G (except Lott's family) have Nephilim DNA -- they were not pure humans; and that is why God destroyed them. Much of the talk in the Old T about purity, referred not to morality, but to genetics and humanity.

[Chris]

Was not Lot and his family the only "just" people let in S & G? We have a long way to go to get down to one good family.

Another theory was that the people of S&G (except Lott's family) have Nephilim DNA -- they were not pure humans; and that is why God destroyed them. Much of the talk in the Old T about purity, referred not to morality, but to genetics and humanity.

That would fit "strange flesh":

Jude 1:7: Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

[Peter1469]

That would fit "strange flesh":

Jude 1:7: Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
True. Genesis talks about how the fallen angles came down and took human females as mates....

[roadmaster]

The threat of hell or eternal damnation shouldn't be the primary reason to believe in something. Doing good things for people, living life as well as you can, and treating others as you would want to be treated is far more healthier, moral and Godly than condemning and judging a person different from you in order to justify your own twisted beliefs and interpretation of a sentence.

Nobody is perfect. There are 613 commandments for me to follow as a Jew, 10 for you, and by no means will anybody ever follow them all perfectly.

Yes I agree but it doesn't matter how good you are if you don't repent and follow Him He says this. No one is perfect and He knows this.

[Chloe]

Yes I agree but it doesn't matter how good you are if you don't repent and follow Him He says this. No one is perfect and He knows this.

Ok but Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah. To us he was just a rabbi that claimed to be the messiah even though he didn't meet the criteria of being the messiah under Jewish law. To say that I need to reject the same faith that Jesus was actually a part of or else I will go to hell for not believing that he was the messiah, even though he did not meet the criteria under Jewish law to be the messiah which he followed as a jew up until that point, is counterintuitive for me and others and also against my faith.

you have the freedom to believe whatever you want, but telling someone that they will suffer for eternity for not believing what you believe is judgmental and wrong in my opinion. Live your life and treat people well. If God is watching and all powerful he should know if you are a good and decent person regardless.

[roadmaster]

Ok but Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah. To us he was just a rabbi that claimed to be the messiah even though he didn't meet the criteria of being the messiah under Jewish law. To say that I need to reject the same faith that Jesus was actually a part of or else I will go to hell for not believing that he was the messiah, even though he did not meet the criteria under Jewish law to be the messiah which he followed as a jew up until that point, is counterintuitive for me and others and also against my faith.

you have the freedom to believe whatever you want, but telling someone that they will suffer for eternity for not believing what you believe is judgmental and wrong in my opinion. Live your life and treat people well. If God is watching and all powerful he should know if you are a good and decent person regardless.

I said God or Him. Could care less but if you don't repent and let Him into your heart than you will.

[Seriy]

The threat of hell or eternal damnation shouldn't be the primary reason to believe in something. Doing good things for people, living life as well as you can, and treating others as you would want to be treated is far more healthier, moral and Godly than condemning and judging a person different from you in order to justify your own twisted beliefs and interpretation of a sentence.

Nobody is perfect. There are 613 commandments for me to follow as a Jew, 10 for you, and by no means will anybody ever follow them all perfectly.
Just doing good works will never saves anyone from going to Hell. Only Jesus is the Way and the Light and the Truth. By putting our trusts in Him as He died for our sins, is One Way to Heaven. But it doesn't mean that you put your trusts in Jesus, do good works will save you. You can't live double lives, for example, I am a Christian who trusts in Jesus and I am gay, or I am a Christian who trusts in Jesus and I want to take my neighbor's wife to be a my wife, or I am a Christian who trusts in Jesus and I am a pro-choice, or etc. You need to seek Jesus first and repent of your double life of sins, and then follow Him and serve God.

[Chloe]

Just doing good works will never saves anyone from going to Hell. Only Jesus is the Way and the Light and the Truth. By putting our trusts in Him as He died for our sins, is One Way to Heaven. But it doesn't mean that you put your trusts in Jesus, do good works will save you. You can't live double lives, for example, I am a Christian who trusts in Jesus and I am gay, or I am a Christian who trusts in Jesus and I want to take my neighbor's wife to be a my wife, or I am a Christian who trusts in Jesus and I am a pro-choice, or etc. You need to seek Jesus first and repent of your double life of sins, and then follow Him and serve God.

Sorry, not my belief system or religion. It's not my place or your place to judge others. Believe what you want and be a good person. When we die we will find out what happens at that point.

[roadmaster]

Just doing good works will never saves anyone from going to Hell. Only Jesus is the Way and the Light and the Truth. By putting our trusts in Him as He died for our sins, is One Way to Heaven. But it doesn't mean that you put your trusts in Jesus, do good works will save you. You can't live double lives, for example, I am a Christian who trusts in Jesus and I am gay, or I am a Christian who trusts in Jesus and I want to take my neighbor's wife to be a my wife, or I am a Christian who trusts in Jesus and I am a pro-choice, or etc. You need to seek Jesus first and repent of your double life of sins, and then follow Him and serve God.

Yes this is what Christ followers believe and I too am one. Don't have to wait until I am dead tho. You remind me of an old friend but I know it's not you. Once one really seeks they will find. Some stay an infant all their lives.

[roadmaster]

If God is watching and all powerful he should know if you are a good and decent person regardless. That said it all. IF

[Seriy]

Sorry, not my belief system or religion. It's not my place or your place to judge others. Believe what you want and be a good person. When we die we will find out what happens at that point.Those who die without Christ in their sins, those find nothing but their eternal place of torture. Hell is forever and no other chance for those who end up in this horrible place. Revelation 20:15. The Lake of Fire.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Those who die without Christ in their sins, those find nothing but their eternal place of torture. Hell is forever and no other chance for those who end up in this horrible place. Revelation 20:15. The Lake of Fire.

Is your God so incapable of judgement that you feel you must take his place?

Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Something something x:x

[Chloe]

That said it all. IF

I'm sorry what do you mean?

[Chris]

Is your God so incapable of judgement that you feel you must take his place?

Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Something something x:x


Matthew 7:1-5

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


Though I think Ecclesiastes 5:2 is more appropriate: Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.

[Seriy]

Is your God so incapable of judgement that you feel you must take his place?

Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Something something x:x
Jesus said, " judge with righteous judgement ". Judge not stands for not accusing people falsely.

[Seriy]

Matthew 7:1-5

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


Though I think Ecclesiastes 5:2 is more appropriate: Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
Judge with righteous judgement. That what Jesus said.

[Chris]

Judge with righteous judgement. That what Jesus said.

Right, he didn't say to judge self-righteously like you do.

[Chloe]

Those who die without Christ in their sins, those find nothing but their eternal place of torture. Hell is forever and no other chance for those who end up in this horrible place. Revelation 20:15. The Lake of Fire.

That point of view is a con because all it does it scare people into believing something by using fear and nothing else, you shouldn't be proud of that. If you convince one person to accept the point of view that you keep talking about then it wasn't done out of compassion or sincerity on your part it was done by simply scaring someone into a belief.

[Captain Obvious]

Because you reject Christ and don't read your KJV Bible daily, that why you defend sins unaware that Hell is real and God is never mocked. Galatians 6:7.
Anyone and any nation who will accept homosexuality as a normal innocent secondary lifestyle will be doomed to fall. Romans 1:18-32.

What I believe in or reject is not only none of your business, it is not within your capacity to determine.

What I do believe in is what I've stated so far and I've not seen any legitimate rebuttal to aside from the religious kookiness aspect.

What people do in their own privacy with their own lives is between them and any God that exists. It is not between anyone else in this aspect. Anything else is fear based oppression.

[Adelaide]

That said it all. IF

I think you're questioning Chloe's faith... I think it's normal, especially for someone young, to question their beliefs. I wouldn't want someone to just blindly follow a religion because it is what they were told to do. I'm quite religious, but I went through a period of thinking I was an Atheist. I'd rather someone question it, try to understand it better, and come to their own conclusion versus just taking the word of their religious leader, family, etc.. If you believe in God, you should do so because you understand it, and because you feel it, (faith). Also, the "if" might have just been a polite way of accomodating to the fact that not everyone believes in the same things. I don't think it means as much as you're implying, (as I'm understanding your statement, anyways).

[Seriy]

Most Christians believe that gay rights doom nations as well as pastor Fred Phelps does, despite his Westboro Baptist Church sparks controversy regarding writings in KJV Bible. Those who attempt to reject Leviticus 19:22, Romans 1:25-27,32, Jude 1:7, those people who attempt to love and justify sin. Christian double life ends up in Proverbs 14:12.

[Chris]

Most Christians believe that gay rights doom nations as well as pastor Fred Phelps does, despite his Westboro Baptist Church sparks controversy regarding writings in KJV Bible. Those who attempt to reject Leviticus 19:22, Romans 1:25-27,32, Jude 1:7, those people who attempt to love and justify sin. Christian double life ends up in Proverbs 14:12.

DO you have some data to support "Most Christians believe that gay rights doom nations"?


Given that you reject what Jesus said:



Matthew 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.



I'd say, seriy, you're misreading the rest.

As we saw earlier, the following says nothing at all about homosexuality:



Jude 1:7: Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.



But good luck now that you've aligned yourself with nutjobs like Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church.

[roadmaster]

I think you're questioning Chloe's faith... I think it's normal, especially for someone young, to question their beliefs. I wouldn't want someone to just blindly follow a religion because it is what they were told to do. I'm quite religious, but I went through a period of thinking I was an Atheist. I'd rather someone question it, try to understand it better, and come to their own conclusion versus just taking the word of their religious leader, family, etc.. If you believe in God, you should do so because you understand it, and because you feel it, (faith). Also, the "if" might have just been a polite way of accomodating to the fact that not everyone believes in the same things. I don't think it means as much as you're implying, (as I'm understanding your statement, anyways).

No she was the one who said if and I don't preach. I also didn't say Jesus to her. It seems as if she is the one questioning her beliefs.

[roadmaster]

But good luck now that you've aligned yourself with nutjobs like Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church. And you need to stop asking him to be PC on his beliefs.

[Chris]

And you need to stop asking him to be PC on his beliefs.

PC? I asked him to stop rejecting the words of Jesus. Jesus ought to be the final word, no?

Matthew 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

[Peter1469]

Most Christians believe that gay rights doom nations as well as pastor Fred Phelps does, despite his Westboro Baptist Church sparks controversy regarding writings in KJV Bible. Those who attempt to reject Leviticus 19:22, Romans 1:25-27,32, Jude 1:7, those people who attempt to love and justify sin. Christian double life ends up in Proverbs 14:12.


Phelps represents probably .01% of Christians in America. He is evil IMO, a tool of Satan to divide us.

[Chloe]

No she was the one who said if and I don't preach. I also didn't say Jesus to her. It seems as if she is the one questioning her beliefs.

I think you are reading into my comments a little too much. I was just saying that since the common accepted thing is that God is all powerful and all knowing and so If he is all knowing then he would know whether or not you are a good person or not and not leaving that judgement to a human being like surily. I'm Jewish but not overly religious. If you believe in god then great but if you are a bad person then it doesn't matter in my opinion.

[Chloe]

Also keep in mind that to me, and to other Jews, Jesus is not God he was just a Jewish rabbi who claimed to be the jewish messiah and was killed by the Romans. For Jews, God is and was not in human form and jesus did not meet the criteria for a messiah among many other things. And so because of that there is no reason for me or others like me to fear being condemned to a christian hell for not believing that another human was Gods son or just because a Christian is adamant about believing it.

Be a good person, help others, live life the best you can, and if God is watching then God will know who is sincere and who is not. FYI the threat of eternal suffering should not be a reason to believe in something in my opinion. If you want to believe that Jesus is God or something that like then that is fine, but billions of people now, in the past, and in the future, will not suffer for eternity for not going along with you.

[Chloe]

Oh and gay marriage will not destroy this country and will not result in mass human suffering in any way. At the end of the day it's two human beings that love each other. How that's offensive or scary ill never know.

[Seriy]

Oh and gay marriage will not destroy this country and will not result in mass human suffering in any way. At the end of the day it's two human beings that love each other. How that's offensive or scary ill never know.
Wrong, gay agenda will. Not just only GLBT rights. It is the entire combination of decaying culture that includes abortion, lawlessness, adultery, rebelling youth, fornication, filth, lack of God, and too many bad things. America nowadays is walking according to Romans 1:18-32.

[KC]

IMO, we should be suspicious of any law that requires legislation for its protection.

On that note, I don't think God cares much about legislation. Legislation comes from man, law comes from God. God doesn't care what our legislation says so long as people follow His law.

Based on the fact that we have free will, if there is a God, I would assume that he wants us to follow his laws by choice rather than coercion.

[Chris]

All that's needed to make those choices is to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Wrong, gay agenda will. Not just only GLBT rights. It is the entire combination of decaying culture that includes abortion, lawlessness, adultery, rebelling youth, fornication, filth, lack of God, and too many bad things. America nowadays is walking according to Romans 1:18-32.

And we can thank Christianity for their pedophile priests.

[roadmaster]

I think you are reading into my comments a little too much. I was just saying that since the common accepted thing is that God is all powerful and all knowing and so If he is all knowing then he would know whether or not you are a good person or not and not leaving that judgement to a human being like surily. I'm Jewish but not overly religious. If you believe in god then great but if you are a bad person then it doesn't matter in my opinion.
You had already said you were Jewish. I wasn't trying to change your views, it is you who brought up Jesus. I said Him. No I wasn't reading into your comments you were reading into mine.

[roadmaster]

Wrong, gay agenda will. Not just only GLBT rights. It is the entire combination of decaying culture that includes abortion, lawlessness, adultery, rebelling youth, fornication, filth, lack of God, and too many bad things. America nowadays is walking according to Romans 1:18-32. You are trying to speak to someone who doesn't view the same. Lawlessness is what will happen in the end. Right will be wrong and wrong will be right. I don't hate gay people, Muslims, Jewish or atheist but I know His laws.

[Seriy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR4ZEXgtjd0

Never mind the Phelpses, see the true street preachers warn those depraved sodomites and lesbians that God indeed hates them who they are. Ministry by Rueben Israel.

[roadmaster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR4ZEXgtjd0

Never mind the Phelpses, see the true street preachers warn those depraved sodomites and lesbians that God indeed hates them who they are. Ministry by Rueben Israel.
God will judge us all. You should not be hating and only stand on His word.

[GrassrootsConservative]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR4ZEXgtjd0

Never mind the Phelpses, see the true street preachers warn those depraved sodomites and lesbians that God indeed hates them who they are. Ministry by Rueben Israel.

Which one are you the fat hispanic with the sunglasses who looks like a bouncer from the watering hole or the skinny dude who looks like he would know a lot about homosexuality?

[Carygrant]

Which one are you the fat hispanic with the sunglasses who looks like a bouncer from the watering hole or the skinny dude who looks like he would know a lot about homosexuality?


You are such a frightened young lad . And the more smashed you get , the more it shows .

[GrassrootsConservative]

You are such a frightened young lad . And the more smashed you get , the more it shows .

Smashed like your military when we took our independence from you pompous asshats?

<Yeah, I'm the frightened one>

[KC]

This is the Other Discussions Section. Please stick to the topic at hand and refrain from personal comments.

[RightWingExtremist]

You are such a frightened young lad . And the more smashed you get , the more it shows .

Say what?

[Seriy]

God will judge us all. You should not be hating and only stand on His word.
God will judge all us humans, but Rueben is 100% warning those brutes that God will cast them to Hell.

[Chris]

God will judge all us humans, but Rueben is 100% warning those brutes that God will cast them to Hell.

How do you know this, reuben?

[Seriy]

Say what?
These people seem don't love God's Law. If God hates the unrepentant rebelling sinners who ignore His warnings about sins and Hell, how can mere people persuade God to love sins if God is above us all. God is Righteous Judge and His Justice never changes.

[Seriy]

How do you know this, reuben?
Rueben is a pastor on this vid.

[Chris]

Rueben is a pastor on this vid.

How do you know reuben knows?

[Seriy]

Which one are you the fat hispanic with the sunglasses who looks like a bouncer from the watering hole or the skinny dude who looks like he would know a lot about homosexuality? This gentleman in sun glasses is pastor Rueben Israel. I am not in his church, just his friend. I am myself is not from Mexico or born in the US. I am from Europe originally. Thanks. :)

[Chris]

These people seem don't love God's Law. If God hates the unrepentant rebelling sinners who ignore His warnings about sins and Hell, how can mere people persuade God to love sins if God is above us all. God is Righteous Judge and His Justice never changes.

How do you know?

[Seriy]

Which one are you the fat hispanic with the sunglasses who looks like a bouncer from the watering hole or the skinny dude who looks like he would know a lot about homosexuality? This gentleman in sun glasses is pastor Rueben Israel. I am not in his church, just his friend. I am myself not from Mexico or born in the US. I am from Europe originally. Thanks. :)

[Chris]

This gentleman in sun glasses is pastor Rueben Israel. I am not in his church, just his friend. I am myself is not from Mexico or born in the US. I am from Europe originally. Thanks. :)

I can tell by the language.

How do you know what you say?

[Seriy]

I can tell by the language.

How do you know what you say?
Say what?

[Chris]

You said, remember...


These people seem don't love God's Law. If God hates the unrepentant rebelling sinners who ignore His warnings about sins and Hell, how can mere people persuade God to love sins if God is above us all. God is Righteous Judge and His Justice never changes.

In this thread you've said many things about God.


How do you know this?

[Seriy]

You said, remember...



In this thread you've said many things about God.


How do you know this?
Because I am a long life Christian and I read the Bible.

[Chris]

Because I am a long life Christian and I read the Bible.

If you know then you have no need of faith, do you, and, consequently, cannot be saved.

[Carygrant]

There is no necessary logical connection between the two terms --- I wish you did not get involved in subjects where you have no aptitude .
I can " know" that 2+2=4 .
But that knowledge depends on the "faith" I have in Mathematics to be eternally true in terms of the fundamental constructs assigned to it .
If you understood sub atomic physics you would know that "knowledge" is possibly impossible --- see particles in two locations simultaneously, and incapable of definition --- variable form dependent on being observed or not ( wave versus energy packets etc )
Someone once said --- Was it a lucid Mister D?--- a little knowledge is very , very , very dangerous .

[Chris]

There is no necessary logical connection between the two terms --- I wish you did not get involved in subjects where you have no aptitude .
I can " know" that 2+2=4 .
But that knowledge depends on the "faith" I have in Mathematics to be eternally true in terms of the fundamental constructs assigned to it .
If you understood sub atomic physics you would know that "knowledge" is possibly impossible --- see particles in two locations simultaneously, and incapable of definition --- variable form dependent on being observed or not ( wave versus energy packets etc )
Someone once said --- Was it a lucid Mister D?--- a little knowledge is very , very , very dangerous .

Sorry, but if you know something is true, then you have no need for faith it's true.

Knowing 1+1=2 is true by mathematical definition doesn't require faith.

Science is not true in the same sense, it is incomplete, tentative and probabilistic. But that doesn't make it a matter of faith.



If you understood sub atomic physics you would know that "knowledge" is possibly impossible --- see particles in two locations simultaneously, and incapable of definition --- variable form dependent on being observed or not ( wave versus energy packets etc )

Huh? Are you with that synatactic mess trying to say something about the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? Indeed, a little knowledge, on your part, is a dangerous thing.

[roadmaster]

Traditional marriage rests on the foundation of biblical teaching as well as cultural tradition. Theology, legal precedent, and historical experience all support the traditional definition of marriage. Once you begin to redefine marriage, any sexual relationship can be called a marriage.

[Carygrant]

Knowing 1+1=2 is true by mathematical definition doesn't require faith.
Huh? Are you with that synatactic mess trying to say something about the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle?

The thought of casting pearls before swine does cross my mind .
Anyhow , I am pleased that you kept up with the first part where mathematically we agreed that agreeing 1+1 =2 is useful .
However ,I notice your comprehension ran out once I showed you that this is not true at the sub atomic level and that Reality works in different ways.
Bravo for grappling with Mister Heisenberg and in the same way Mister Schroeder's cat experiment might give you further insight .
But the area that has escaped you totally is seeing that these illustrations -- and many more separate examples ---show that 1+1 does not equal two 2 , except where you localise time as a variable and work outside of the world where reality exists in its most pure form .To all intents , to a limiting factor of almost 100% in the Universe .
Or , put another way , it suits you ( unsurprisingly, in fairness) to confuse Reality with your minuscule experience of the Universe --- essential to you but irrelevant and untrue from a Universal perspective .
So , however difficult it is to grapple with , your most cherished assumed possession --- 1+1 =2, is untrue 99.99recurring per cent of all instances .
That you believe otherwise is an article of faith which I can appreciate you not wanting to accept .
But science is not interested in "wanting" , except when dealing with the possibility of paranormal or mental forces . A completely different topic .
What was it you wanted to say about a little knowledge ------------------------- ?

[Chris]

The thought of casting pearls before swine does cross my mind .
Anyhow , I am pleased that you kept up with the first part where mathematically we agreed that agreeing 1+1 =2 is useful .
However ,I notice your comprehension ran out once I showed you that this is not true at the sub atomic level and that Reality works in different ways.
Bravo for grappling with Mister Heisenberg and in the same way Mister Schroeder's cat experiment might give you further insight .
But the area that has escaped you totally is seeing that these illustrations -- and many more separate examples ---show that 1+1 does not equal two 2 , except where you localise time as a variable and work outside of the world where reality exists in its most pure form .To all intents , to a limiting factor of almost 100% in the Universe .
Or , put another way , it suits you ( unsurprisingly, in fairness) to confuse Reality with your minuscule experience of the Universe --- essential to you but irrelevant and untrue from a Universal perspective .
So , however difficult it is to grapple with , your most cherished assumed possession --- 1+1 =2, is untrue 99.99recurring per cent of all instances .
That you believe otherwise is an article of faith which I can appreciate you not wanting to accept .
But science is not interested in "wanting" , except when dealing with the possibility of paranormal or mental forces . A completely different topic .
What was it you wanted to say about a little knowledge ------------------------- ?

It's so good to see we agree!

The truth of 1 + 1 = 2 is not empirical thus uncertainty doesn't enter the picture.

http://i.snag.gy/6rXZ1.jpg

[killianr1]

You guys must be really bored or you are doing some damn good drugs.

Any who it is really not about gay marriage but equal protection under the law. The act of marriage may be the easiest method to become covered by equal protection under the law however "marriage" does have a connnotation that relates to a religious ceremony. There is the crux of the matter.