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Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:00 PM
Terror attacks in London

Sky news live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:03 PM
There are multiple attacks. A vehicle. A gun. And a knife. And possible elsewhere in London.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:04 PM
The PM is heading to her office. Ironically, it isn't that far from the bridge attack.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:05 PM
Apparently the third incident is not terror related.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:05 PM
These are breaking reports. Expect reported facts to change.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:06 PM
The bridge attack was on the south side of the river.

Tahuyaman
06-03-2017, 06:08 PM
What is it going to take to force people to finally wake up?

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:09 PM
What is it going to take to force people to finally wake up?
Some people have. Brexit as an example.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:12 PM
Wow, the police have people with hands over heads exiting the area.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:15 PM
I recognize this area on the Sky News, live.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:16 PM
No more London with cops unarmed. And assault weapons too!

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:19 PM
Looks like a lot of gunfire. Not some random stuff.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:22 PM
Their riot shields are really small.

What's up with that?

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:24 PM
There is only a small area there where a vehicle can hit pedestrians on the bridge. It must have been planned.

The terrorist attack cycle (https://www.stratfor.com/sites/default/files/styles/wv_small/public/main/images/Attack_cycle.jpg?itok=gf1pm9vp).



The tangos put effort into this.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:27 PM
This is probably it for attacks. Now the clean up and the investigations.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:28 PM
UK police are now saying terrorism.

Beevee
06-03-2017, 06:30 PM
Don't confuse Tower Bridge with London Bridge. London Bridge is about 40 feet wide. Tower Bridge less so and if I remember has a barrier between the road and pedestrian walkway.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:34 PM
Don't confuse Tower Bridge with London Bridge. London Bridge is about 40 feet wide. Tower Bridge less so and if I remember has a barrier between the road and pedestrian walkway.

Right. From the video- this is London Bridge, not Tower Bridge.

London bridge is modern and has separate pedestrian part. The attack point would have been on the south where the side walk merges to the walk-part of the bridge.

But good post, thanks.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:38 PM
So we have witnesses saying there were stabbings on the south side of the bridge.

This is in addition to the vehicle attack.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:43 PM
Breaking news is 5 attackers with knives. Foot long.

Easy to counter if you know what you are doing.

But they got a lot of people.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:44 PM
Two incidences are terrorist related. The third is not.

resister
06-03-2017, 06:50 PM
Two incidences are terrorist related. The third is not.Shocking, the left was praying it was done by whites. Their claim that whites commit the most terror, deteriorates more and more, nearly every day.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 06:53 PM
Shocking, the left was praying it was done by whites. Their claim that whites commit the most terror, deteriorates more and more, nearly every day.


Wow, witnesses are describing the dead.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 07:01 PM
An ex-military guy says there was significant gunfire.

Tahuyaman
06-03-2017, 07:21 PM
It's come to the point now that we will be required to take very serious measures to ensure our security. I have mixed feelings about that, but we have taken too soft a stance against an element we know wants to destroy our society. Now we need to correct those mistakes, but we need to make sure that we don't go too far and begin guarding against the wrong people.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 07:22 PM
There are a "number of casualties".

There are a lot of controlled explosions- probably blowing up random crap people left in the area.

Tahuyaman
06-03-2017, 07:23 PM
This is probably it for attacks. Now the clean up and the investigations.


Let's it's hope so

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 07:33 PM
There will be more attacks in Europe. A lot of jihadist have free time now that the Islamic State is rolled back.

We may see similar things here.

As an aside, thanks to the members who avoid this thread knowing that trash would be taken out.

That make this work.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 07:39 PM
More explosions. Possibly flash bangs. That means there are active tangos.

Common
06-03-2017, 07:43 PM
Europe has made their own bed, they wanted unbridled refugees and immigrants now they are paying the price of not being able to assure security. Europe has been nothing less than wonderful to the same people that want to kill them.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 07:49 PM
Europe has made their own bed, they wanted unbridled refugees and immigrants now they are paying the price of not being able to assure security. Europe has been nothing less than wonderful to the same people that want to kill them.

The UK said no with Brexit. But they are still venerable. I hope the locals don't get medieval on the migrants. But that is what is going to happen in Europe.

MisterVeritis
06-03-2017, 08:45 PM
Does anyone believe Britain will declare war on the Islamofascists?

exotix
06-03-2017, 09:12 PM
Europe has made their own bed, they wanted unbridled refugees and immigrants now they are paying the price of not being able to assure security. Europe has been nothing less than wonderful to the same people that want to kill them.

Does anyone believe Britain will declare war on the Islamofascists?The Brexiteers need to attempt a Travel Ban.


TBed by OP. Ask OP.

Peter1469
06-03-2017, 09:44 PM
Looks like 6 dead, 20 injured.

William
06-03-2017, 11:56 PM
Europe has made their own bed, they wanted unbridled refugees and immigrants now they are paying the price of not being able to assure security. Europe has been nothing less than wonderful to the same people that want to kill them.

You know, I am really tired of hearing this sort of thing from Americans every time there is an attack in Europe. You have 33,000 Americans killing themselves and each other with guns every year, and you talk about the dangers in Europe? And have you any idea of what sort of person blames the victims of terrorism for their deaths? When the attacks on the WTC happened, all Europe joined in sympathy with Americans - to the extent that Europeans, Brits, Canadians and Australians have given their lives in your revenge attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq. Anyone who is saying Europe deserves this sort of thing, cos they took in refugees should be ashamed of themselves. I did not expect this from the people here. :undecided:

Croft
06-04-2017, 12:12 AM
Europe has made their own bed, they wanted unbridled refugees and immigrants now they are paying the price of not being able to assure security. Europe has been nothing less than wonderful to the same people that want to kill them.
To be fair they never wanted it. They were just educated and informed 24/7 by the media that not wanting it made them nazis. Then in the 90s the cult like brain washing began in the universities to create a generation of jumped up little commissars to actively welcome it. It's mass abuse of the people of Europe and the only hope is enough of them wake up in time.

Croft
06-04-2017, 12:15 AM
You know, I am really tired of hearing this sort of thing from Americans every time there is an attack in Europe. You have 33,000 Americans killing themselves and each other with guns every year, and you talk about the dangers in Europe? And have you any idea of what sort of person blames the victims of terrorism for their deaths? When the attacks on the WTC happened, all Europe joined in sympathy with Americans - to the extent that Europeans, Brits, Canadians and Australians have given their lives in your revenge attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq. Anyone who is saying Europe deserves this sort of thing, cos they took in refugees should be ashamed of themselves. I did not expect this from the people here. :undecided:
I can understand your anger at a time like this but how about focus it also on the people who rule Europe and who will never stop pumping in muslims. They're the ones killing you.

William
06-04-2017, 12:30 AM
I can understand your anger at a time like this but how about focus it also on the people who rule Europe and who will never stop pumping in muslims. They're the ones killing you.

That is fair comment - or would be if the European governments were 'pumping in' Muslims as a matter of immigration policy. They are not - they are taking in Muslim refugees from places like Syria as a matter of responsibility and compassion. So far, none of the attacks in the UK have been traced to anyone except native-born Brits. Each country has an immigration policy and only a Fascist nation could exclude people - specially refugees - on the basis of religion.

You seem like a reasonable and civilised man - can you not see that (a) there is no direct link between Muslim refugees and the people who are carrying out these terror attacks, and (b) it is very insensitive and ignorant to say to a mother who has lost her son to terrorists - "It is your own fault for taking in Muslim refugees, cos you know all Muslims are terrorists."

Croft
06-04-2017, 12:52 AM
That is fair comment - or would be if the European governments were 'pumping in' Muslims as a matter of immigration policy. They are not - they are taking in Muslim refugees from places like Syria as a matter of responsibility and compassion. So far, none of the attacks in the UK have been traced to anyone except native-born Brits. Each country has an immigration policy and only a Fascist nation could exclude people - specially refugees - on the basis of religion.

You seem like a reasonable and civilised man - can you not see that (a) there is no direct link between Muslim refugees and the people who are carrying out these terror attacks, and (b) it is very insensitive and ignorant to say to a mother who has lost her son to terrorists - "It is your own fault for taking in Muslim refugees, cos you know all Muslims are terrorists."
Well I don't agree with the "it's your own fault" sentiment at all. The people killed in these attacks are random and with the bombing at that concert include children. I understand the frustration in people who say it because they want to protect America from this violence and are derided as hillbillys and racists for it so when these attacks happen they lash back. But it's still not fair because the people murdered are innocent.
The link I see between these attacks and taking in refugees is that you take in people from areas that hate the West and therefore increase the chances of importing killers and people who sympathize with killers. There's also the problem as with Germany and Sweden that they did pump in muslims from everywhere, not just Syria, in fact two thirds of the million pumped into Germany were not from Syria and in the endless rapes and mass gang rapes in Cologne most were not from Syria. Many were from Pakistan, Tunisia, Libya etc. The hatred and contempt they showed for the West would make a blind man see. But Europe just won't see.

In the 1930s Germany built an army and when ever Churchill pointed it out he was called a war monger. Today Europe is heading towards a Lebanon future, it has already begun and more and more people will be forced to choose sides due to the reality of war. Moving in more "refugees" is therefore insane.
But today instead of war monger being the pejorative it's racist and fascist that gets used.

resister
06-04-2017, 01:19 AM
The Brexiteers need to attempt a Travel Ban.


TBed by OP. Ask OP.
Takin out the trash!

William
06-04-2017, 06:20 AM
Well I don't agree with the "it's your own fault" sentiment at all. The people killed in these attacks are random and with the bombing at that concert include children. I understand the frustration in people who say it because they want to protect America from this violence and are derided as hillbillys and racists for it so when these attacks happen they lash back. But it's still not fair because the people murdered are innocent.
The link I see between these attacks and taking in refugees is that you take in people from areas that hate the West and therefore increase the chances of importing killers and people who sympathize with killers. There's also the problem as with Germany and Sweden that they did pump in muslims from everywhere, not just Syria, in fact two thirds of the million pumped into Germany were not from Syria and in the endless rapes and mass gang rapes in Cologne most were not from Syria. Many were from Pakistan, Tunisia, Libya etc. The hatred and contempt they showed for the West would make a blind man see. But Europe just won't see.

In the 1930s Germany built an army and when ever Churchill pointed it out he was called a war monger. Today Europe is heading towards a Lebanon future, it has already begun and more and more people will be forced to choose sides due to the reality of war. Moving in more "refugees" is therefore insane.
But today instead of war monger being the pejorative it's racist and fascist that gets used.

Thank you for that reasoned response and I can see and understand the points you are making, about not wanting that to happen in the USA. I'm still at school, and I don't follow the international news closely, so I don't know under what circumstances Sweden and Germany took in lots of people from Pakistan, Tunisia, Libya, etc. And I can understand people who are angry wanting to lash out at someone, but as you say, the victims of terrorist attacks are not the people to blame. And I don't think there was a need to put refugees in inverted commas - they have to go through a vetting process before they are accepted as refugees.

I was just surprised to read the 'serves 'em right' sort of post, cos I found most of the people on here quite sensible in the nearly two and a half years I have been a member. I have also been on a visit to the USA, and I found people there very friendly and generous - so I wasn't expecting that kind of thing. Innocent people dying shouldn't be used as a political football.

Anyway, thanks again for your post and explanation. :smiley:

Shady Slim
06-04-2017, 06:46 AM
It's come to the point now that we will be required to take very serious measures to ensure our security. I have mixed feelings about that, but we have taken too soft a stance against an element we know wants to destroy our society. Now we need to correct those mistakes, but we need to make sure that we don't go too far and begin guarding against the wrong people.

I am glad you are coming around to the fact that mooslums are doing the killing.

Shady Slim
06-04-2017, 06:50 AM
You know, I am really tired of hearing this sort of thing from Americans every time there is an attack in Europe. You have 33,000 Americans killing themselves and each other with guns every year, and you talk about the dangers in Europe? And have you any idea of what sort of person blames the victims of terrorism for their deaths? When the attacks on the WTC happened, all Europe joined in sympathy with Americans - to the extent that Europeans, Brits, Canadians and Australians have given their lives in your revenge attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq. Anyone who is saying Europe deserves this sort of thing, cos they took in refugees should be ashamed of themselves. I did not expect this from the people here. :undecided:

Take the American black man out of the equation and ya got nothing.



But yet they (Europe) continue to allow mass immigration (invasion).


Go find a safe spot and quiver . . .

TBed by OP, ask OP.

Shady Slim
06-04-2017, 06:53 AM
That is fair comment - or would be if the European governments were 'pumping in' Muslims as a matter of immigration policy. They are not - they are taking in Muslim refugees from places like Syria as a matter of responsibility and compassion. So far, none of the attacks in the UK have been traced to anyone except native-born Brits. Each country has an immigration policy and only a Fascist nation could exclude people - specially refugees - on the basis of religion.

You seem like a reasonable and civilised man - can you not see that (a) there is no direct link between Muslim refugees and the people who are carrying out these terror attacks, and (b) it is very insensitive and ignorant to say to a mother who has lost her son to terrorists - "It is your own fault for taking in Muslim refugees, cos you know all Muslims are terrorists."

That is the root of your ignorance. You believe that these "refugees" are that. Sorry Charlie; loads of 18 to 35 year old men is not what I would call refugees.

Once you understand that, then you might be on the road to a solution.

Croft
06-04-2017, 07:08 AM
Thank you for that reasoned response and I can see and understand the points you are making, about not wanting that to happen in the USA. I'm still at school, and I don't follow the international news closely, so I don't know under what circumstances Sweden and Germany took in lots of people from Pakistan, Tunisia, Libya, etc. And I can understand people who are angry wanting to lash out at someone, but as you say, the victims of terrorist attacks are not the people to blame. And I don't think there was a need to put refugees in inverted commas - they have to go through a vetting process before they are accepted as refugees.

I was just surprised to read the 'serves 'em right' sort of post, cos I found most of the people on here quite sensible in the nearly two and a half years I have been a member. I have also been on a visit to the USA, and I found people there very friendly and generous - so I wasn't expecting that kind of thing. Innocent people dying shouldn't be used as a political football.

Anyway, thanks again for your post and explanation. :smiley:
No probs. I'm not sure about the UK but Germany let in over a million refugees who were not all refugees. They came from everywhere and at the time (late 2015) it was remarked that they were not vetted. That was the lunacy. The rulers of Europe just dumped a million young muslim men from all over the Islamic world on the streets of Germany. the irresponsibility, malice even, towards the people of Europe was breath taking.
Have a good one.

Common
06-04-2017, 07:41 AM
I was in the gym on the treadmill, watching the news. The brit PM said that Britain had become to tolerant of extremists and that has to change

Common
06-04-2017, 07:58 AM
You know, I am really tired of hearing this sort of thing from Americans every time there is an attack in Europe. You have 33,000 Americans killing themselves and each other with guns every year, and you talk about the dangers in Europe? And have you any idea of what sort of person blames the victims of terrorism for their deaths? When the attacks on the WTC happened, all Europe joined in sympathy with Americans - to the extent that Europeans, Brits, Canadians and Australians have given their lives in your revenge attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq. Anyone who is saying Europe deserves this sort of thing, cos they took in refugees should be ashamed of themselves. I did not expect this from the people here. :undecided:
There is a difference between crime and terrorism william. There are murders and crime in england. England is ranked 44th for murder and we are ranked 10th. Thats with millions of americans owning guns and carrying firearms and england with less than 1/5th our population

Where you are totally mistaken is that I very much sympathize with the victims of terrorism and crime. I have none for those that commit it.

The USA has to live with citizens that commit murder. We do not have to increase that by being tolerant of extremists or importing them into our country.

Now lets get to meat and potatoes. Britain has 63,182,000 citizens. The United States has 320,000,000 does that not explain some of the difference in crime rates. Lets take Australias population and Canada. Australia as of 2017 has little more than 24 million citizens.
Canada has little more than 36,000,608.

If we didnt have millions of illegal immigrants from many nations here our crime rate would be lower so would our debt.

I get tired of citizens of other countries denigrating mine when the comparison isnt even close. Put apples against apples and there are no utopias. That does not mean I believe the USA is without fault, I know better.

Other countries have no right to criticize ours and make demands on what we the United States should or should not being doing, when they arent perfect and they are less than 1/12th the size of the USA

Peter1469
06-04-2017, 07:58 AM
ISIL told the world that it was going to use the migrant flow to infiltrate fighters into the West.

Plus, many of the migrants self radicalize.

And large portions of them do not want to become Westerners.

Europe should have paid for refugee camps in the Middle East.


That is fair comment - or would be if the European governments were 'pumping in' Muslims as a matter of immigration policy. They are not - they are taking in Muslim refugees from places like Syria as a matter of responsibility and compassion. So far, none of the attacks in the UK have been traced to anyone except native-born Brits. Each country has an immigration policy and only a Fascist nation could exclude people - specially refugees - on the basis of religion.

You seem like a reasonable and civilised man - can you not see that (a) there is no direct link between Muslim refugees and the people who are carrying out these terror attacks, and (b) it is very insensitive and ignorant to say to a mother who has lost her son to terrorists - "It is your own fault for taking in Muslim refugees, cos you know all Muslims are terrorists."

Peter1469
06-04-2017, 11:46 AM
Seven dead. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/04/shouted-allah-stabbed-indiscriminately-london-terror-attack/) Close to 50 injured.

Expect more of this as the Islamic State is dismantled. Much more.


The attack came out of the blue and out of the night. Beneath the shadow of The Shard, Europe’s tallest skyscraper, terror hit Britain’s streets again (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/04/london-attack-six-dead-van-rampage-stabbings-terrorists-killed/).


At shortly after 10pm, a white B&Q van being driven at speeds of up to 50 miles per hour mounted the pavement at London Bridge and ploughed into pedestrians (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/03/london-bridge-everything-know-far/), knocking them down like skittles. Reports suggested some victims were thrown into the water of the Thames below. Others may have jumped in in an attempt to avoid the speeding vehicle.

Peter1469
06-04-2017, 12:00 PM
The US "media" has lost its mind. (http://www.mediaite.com/online/nbc-news-throws-shade-on-president-trumps-terror-tweet-info-is-unconfirmed/) They are attacking the President for pointing out a terror attack.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/804023250799955968/ytLeajyt_bigger.jpgNBC Nightly News
✔@NBCNightlyNews (https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews)

Pres. Trump has used Twitter to share news report on London incident.

We aren't relaying president's retweet, as the info is unconfirmed.
7:21 PM - 3 Jun 2017 (https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/871144729760722944)


(https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=871144729760722944)

13,10813,108 Retweets (https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=871144729760722944)

28,71728,717 likes (https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=871144729760722944)



Oops. What fools!

Peter1469
06-04-2017, 05:17 PM
More is coming out about the troglodytes that staged this attack.

The jovial jihadi: How killer father-of-two tricked his neighbours (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html) into thinking he was a 'nice guy' by playing football with children while secretly harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html#ixzz4j4jABkKg
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=MailOnline) | DailyMail on Facebook (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail)


The formatting is goofy. Go to the link and read the article.

One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.


Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.


The Pakistani-born killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.


A neighbour told MailOnline the man who was pictured in an Arsenal shirt lying dead on the street outside the Wheatsheaf pub in Borough Market near London Bridge was a father of at least two children.


The murderer managed to put on such a front with those close to him that local parents would even trust him to be alone with their children, which used to happen regularly.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html#ixzz4j4jVz7rF
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=MailOnline) | DailyMail on Facebook (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail)

resister
06-04-2017, 05:32 PM
There is a difference between crime and terrorism william. There are murders and crime in england. England is ranked 44th for murder and we are ranked 10th. Thats with millions of americans owning guns and carrying firearms and england with less than 1/5th our population

Where you are totally mistaken is that I very much sympathize with the victims of terrorism and crime. I have none for those that commit it.

The USA has to live with citizens that commit murder. We do not have to increase that by being tolerant of extremists or importing them into our country.

Now lets get to meat and potatoes. Britain has 63,182,000 citizens. The United States has 320,000,000 does that not explain some of the difference in crime rates. Lets take Australias population and Canada. Australia as of 2017 has little more than 24 million citizens.
Canada has little more than 36,000,608.

If we didnt have millions of illegal immigrants from many nations here our crime rate would be lower so would our debt.

I get tired of citizens of other countries denigrating mine when the comparison isnt even close. Put apples against apples and there are no utopias. That does not mean I believe the USA is without fault, I know better.

Other countries have no right to criticize ours and make demands on what we the United States should or should not being doing, when they arent perfect and they are less than 1/12th the size of the USA
Internet high5!:f_applause:

Peter1469
06-04-2017, 05:42 PM
From the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom:

Enough Is Enough: We Must Defeat Islamist Extremism (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/06/04/enough_is_enough_we_must_defeat_islamist_extremism _134094.html)
Talk is talk. In the world of strategy we have methods. Checklists. Procedures.

Tell me Ends, Ways, and Means.


Last night, our country fell victim to a brutal terrorist attack once again. As a result I have just chaired a meeting of the Government's emergency committee, and I want to update you with the latest information about the attack.
Shortly before 10 past 10 yesterday evening, the Metropolitan Police received reports that a white van had struck pedestrians on London Bridge. It continued to drive from London Bridge to Borough Market, where three terrorists left the van and attacked innocent and unarmed civilians with blades and knives.
All three were wearing what appeared to be explosive vests, but the police have established that this clothing was fake and worn only to spread panic and fear.
As so often in such serious situations, the police responded with great courage and great speed. Armed offices from the Metropolitan Police and the City of London Police arrived at Borough Market within moments and shot and killed the three suspects.
The terrorists were confronted and shot by armed officers within eight minutes of the police receiving the first emergency call.


Read the rest at the link

The UK and western Europe is in the center of the shit-storm of Jihadists fleeing the crumbling Islamic State.

These attacks are going to increase.

The US needs to decide if our courts run national defense or if the president does.

Ethereal
06-04-2017, 05:44 PM
A blast from the past...


BAE: secret papers reveal threats from Saudi prince (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/15/bae.armstrade)

Spectre of 'another 7/7' led Tony Blair to block bribes inquiry, high court told

Saudi Arabia's rulers threatened to make it easier for terrorists to attack London unless corruption investigations into their arms deals were halted, according to court documents revealed yesterday.

Previously secret files describe how investigators were told they faced "another 7/7" and the loss of "British lives on British streets" if they pressed on with their inquiries and the Saudis carried out their threat to cut off intelligence.

Prince Bandar, the head of the Saudi national security council, and son of the crown prince, was alleged in court to be the man behind the threats to hold back information about suicide bombers and terrorists. He faces accusations that he himself took more than £1bn in secret payments from the arms company BAE.

He was accused in yesterday's high court hearings of flying to London in December 2006 and uttering threats which made the prime minister, Tony Blair, force an end to the Serious Fraud Office investigation into bribery allegations involving Bandar and his family.

[...]

*cough* *wink wink* *nudge nudge*

Peter1469
06-04-2017, 05:46 PM
A blast from the past...



*cough* *wink wink* *nudge nudge*
The Saudis killed off a couple of its princes after 9-11.

Beevee
06-04-2017, 05:53 PM
I was in the gym on the treadmill, watching the news. The brit PM said that Britain had become to tolerant of extremists and that has to change

She's has some gall to say that.
For seven years she was the Home Secretary, in charge of the police and security services. If she is that concerned now, why not before. Terrorism is terrorism. It shouldn't be categorized so she had numerous opportunities to do something.
All she is now doing is criticizing the person she selected as her replacement for not doing what she should have done.

Ethereal
06-04-2017, 05:59 PM
The Saudis killed off a couple of its princes after 9-11.
Westerners need to know who the real enemy is.

William
06-04-2017, 08:12 PM
There is a difference between crime and terrorism william. There are murders and crime in england. England is ranked 44th for murder and we are ranked 10th. Thats with millions of americans owning guns and carrying firearms and england with less than 1/5th our population

Those are per capita rates, which have nothing to do millions or hundreds of millions.

Where you are totally mistaken is that I very much sympathize with the victims of terrorism and crime. I have none for those that commit it.

This comment did not give me that impression -

Europe has made their own bed, they wanted unbridled refugees and immigrants now they are paying the price of not being able to assure security.

It sounds very much like 'serves them right' in other words, and would you have appreciated such comments from an European at the time of the WTC attacks? When, in fact, you got the opposite. What it came across as - was trying to make political capital for the USA's policy on refugees.


The USA has to live with citizens that commit murder. We do not have to increase that by being tolerant of extremists or importing them into our country.

Fair comment - that is your choice and something I would probably agree with.


Now lets get to meat and potatoes. Britain has 63,182,000 citizens. The United States has 320,000,000 does that not explain some of the difference in crime rates. Lets take Australias population and Canada. Australia as of 2017 has little more than 24 million citizens.
Canada has little more than 36,000,608.
If we didnt have millions of illegal immigrants from many nations here our crime rate would be lower so would our debt.

AFIK, there is no statistical evidence proving that illegal immigrants commit the majority of crime in your country, or in mine. In fact an illegal migrant is more likely to try and keep a low profile, but I'm happy to change that opinion if you can link me to such evidence. Added to which, actual numbers have no effect upon statistical per capita rates, so I am unaware of what point you are trying to make.


I get tired of citizens of other countries denigrating mine when the comparison isnt even close. Put apples against apples and there are no utopias. That does not mean I believe the USA is without fault, I know better.
Other countries have no right to criticize ours and make demands on what we the United States should or should not being doing, when they arent perfect and they are less than 1/12th the size of the USA

The geographic size or population of a country is irrelevant to this discussion, and I have seen no one denigrating the USA on these pages, nor making demands as to what the US should or should not be doing. Your comments are unnecessarily defensive and seem a bit along the lines of 'the best form of defence is attack'. Perhaps cos you can see why an European might find your comment above unsympathetic and even quite offensive - given what just happened in London?

Cletus
06-04-2017, 08:18 PM
This comment did not give me that impression -

Europe has made their own bed, they wanted unbridled refugees and immigrants now they are paying the price of not being able to assure security.

It sounds very much like 'serves them right' in other words, and would you have appreciated such comments from an European at the time of the WTC attacks?

It doesn't mean they deserved it. It means they created the conditions that led to it.

William
06-04-2017, 08:30 PM
It doesn't mean they deserved it. It means they created the conditions that led to it.

That's also a fair comment. I understand it is not saying the victims deserved what happened to them, but the society concerned was to blame cos of their policies. We have to be careful how we say such things. Like I said, how would Americans have felt if we had said the USA was to blame for the attacks in 2001, cos of their policies in the world in general, specially the Middle East? Even if that was true - do you think any non-American should have taken that unsympathetic attitude at that time? I don't - and we didn't.

Peter1469
06-04-2017, 08:44 PM
Huntington's clash of civilizations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations).

Common
06-04-2017, 08:47 PM
Those are per capita rates, which have nothing to do millions or hundreds of millions.


This comment did not give me that impression -

Europe has made their own bed, they wanted unbridled refugees and immigrants now they are paying the price of not being able to assure security.

It sounds very much like 'serves them right' in other words, and would you have appreciated such comments from an European at the time of the WTC attacks? When, in fact, you got the opposite. What it came across as - was trying to make political capital for the USA's policy on refugees.



Fair comment - that is your choice and something I would probably agree with.



AFIK, there is no statistical evidence proving that illegal immigrants commit the majority of crime in your country, or in mine. In fact an illegal migrant is more likely to try and keep a low profile, but I'm happy to change that opinion if you can link me to such evidence. Added to which, actual numbers have no effect upon statistical per capita rates, so I am unaware of what point you are trying to make.



The geographic size or population of a country is irrelevant to this discussion, and I have seen no one denigrating the USA on these pages, nor making demands as to what the US should or should not be doing. Your comments are unnecessarily defensive and seem a bit along the lines of 'the best form of defence is attack'. Perhaps cos you can see why an European might find your comment above unsympathetic and even quite offensive - given what just happened in London?

The size of your country and others is quite relevent when you want to talk about crime statistics and make statements about how many murders here. You cant compare another countries murder or crime rate accurately without taking the populations into consideration.
I never said illegal immigrants commit all the crimes you said I said that but they add to it considerably. There is 450,000 illegal immigrants incarcerated in the USA for committed crimes which costs us 18.7 million dollars PER DAY. That doesnt take in those that committed crimes here and ran back to mexico to avoid prosecution and those we just didnt catch.

I am not trying to being defensive or offensive you seem overly sensitive, you made the statement you were tired of hearing this and that because america has 33,000 murders with handguns you tried to compare that to the terrorist attacks in europe you I found that offensive.

This is what you said that I found offensive, as quoted

You know, I am really tired of hearing this sort of thing from Americans every time there is an attack in Europe. You have 33,000 Americans killing themselves and each other with guns every year, and you talk about the dangers in Europe? And have you any idea of what sort of person blames the victims of terrorism for their deaths? When the attacks on the WTC happened, all Europe joined in sympathy with Americans - to the extent that Europeans, Brits, Canadians and Australians have given their lives in your revenge attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq. Anyone who is saying Europe deserves this sort of thing, cos they took in refugees should be ashamed of themselves. I did not expect this from the people here. :undecided:

You tried to justify terrorist attacks to our murder rate which is not even relative.
I said Europe made their own bed and I stand by that statement, they wanted unbridled refugee border crossings and now they are paying the price. Aside from that they have realized they were wrong and have reversed their refugee policy.

America has 320,000,000 people size is relative to crime, 320,0000,000 is certainly going to have more crime than 24 million or 63 million.

I havent tried to offend you, you decided to take offense from my argument.
I stand by everything I said, Europe has had more terrror attacks than the United States and the terrorists hate us far worse. The reason for us having less terror attacks is far better preventive security and NOT taking in hundreds of thousands of refugees. We fought obama on that issue

William
06-04-2017, 09:21 PM
The size of your country and others is quite relevent when you want to talk about crime statistics and make statements about how many murders here. You cant compare another countries murder or crime rate accurately without taking the populations into consideration.
I never said illegal immigrants commit all the crimes you said I said that but they add to it considerably. There is 450,000 illegal immigrants incarcerated in the USA for committed crimes which costs us 18.7 million dollars PER DAY. That doesnt take in those that committed crimes here and ran back to mexico to avoid prosecution and those we just didnt catch.

I am not trying to being defensive or offensive you seem overly sensitive, you made the statement you were tired of hearing this and that because america has 33,000 murders with handguns you tried to compare that to the terrorist attacks in europe you I found that offensive.

This is what you said that I found offensive, as quoted

You know, I am really tired of hearing this sort of thing from Americans every time there is an attack in Europe. You have 33,000 Americans killing themselves and each other with guns every year, and you talk about the dangers in Europe? And have you any idea of what sort of person blames the victims of terrorism for their deaths? When the attacks on the WTC happened, all Europe joined in sympathy with Americans - to the extent that Europeans, Brits, Canadians and Australians have given their lives in your revenge attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq. Anyone who is saying Europe deserves this sort of thing, cos they took in refugees should be ashamed of themselves. I did not expect this from the people here. :undecided:

You tried to justify terrorist attacks to our murder rate which is not even relative.
I said Europe made their own bed and I stand by that statement, they wanted unbridled refugee border crossings and now they are paying the price. Aside from that they have realized they were wrong and have reversed their refugee policy.

America has 320,000,000 people size is relative to crime, 320,0000,000 is certainly going to have more crime than 24 million or 63 million.

I havent tried to offend you, you decided to take offense from my argument.
I stand by everything I said, Europe has had more terrror attacks than the United States and the terrorists hate us far worse. The reason for us having less terror attacks is far better preventive security and NOT taking in hundreds of thousands of refugees. We fought obama on that issue

You are correct - I shouldn't have mentioned the 33,000 gun deaths a year, cos they are meaningless without reference to the population. What I should have mentioned (and I was just being too lazy to look it up,) was the difference in the gun murder rates between the UK and the USA.

The rate per 100,000 of firearm related deaths are as follow -

USA 10.54

UK 0.23

Ref:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

So the USA has 45 times the per capita gun deaths than the UK. Thanks, I think it makes my point better than the 33,000 number. :smiley:

At no point did I try and justify terrorism by means of your murder rate - I am still getting the impression you are being defensive, cos you know you said the wrong thing under the circumstances.

But this is getting too far OT, so let's just agree to disagree. I like you and respect much of what you have to say, so let's not make this into a fight - I was just disappointed by what I saw as an unsympathetic attitude. You say it is not, and I am happy to accept your word.

waltky
06-04-2017, 11:04 PM
ISIS claims credit for London attack...
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/images/smilies/mad.gif
UK Police Arrest 12 in London Bridge Attack
June 4, 2017 - At least seven people were killed and more than 48 injured late Saturday when three men drove a van into pedestrians on London Bridge before stabbing people at bars and restaurants.


London police on Sunday announced the arrest of 12 suspects in connection with the terrorist attack at London Bridge the night before as Prime Minister Theresa May called for an overhaul of Britain's counter-terrorism strategy. At least seven people were killed and more than 48 injured late Saturday when three men drove a van into pedestrians on London Bridge before stabbing people at bars and restaurants in nearby Borough Market. The three attackers, who were wearing fake explosive suicide vests, were shot dead by police within eight minutes of the first emergency calls, Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said.

It was the third deadly attack on British soil since March, when a man drove his car into pedestrians on Westminster Bridge in central London and stabbed a policeman to death outside parliament. Some 22 people were also killed last month in a suicide bombing at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester. On Sunday, counter-terrorism police raided several addresses in the east London suburb of Barking, the Metropolitan Police said, adding that searches were continuing there. "It is time to say 'enough is enough,'" May said after chairing the government's emergency committee early Sunday. "When it comes to taking on extremism and terrorism, things need to change."


http://r1.officer.com/files/base/OFCR/image/2017/06/16x9/640x360/ukpolice.593474be2b0a3.jpg
At least seven people were killed and more than 48 injured late Saturday when three men drove a van into pedestrians on London Bridge before stabbing people at bars and restaurants.

British authorities have disrupted five credible terrorist plots since March, May said, adding that the three latest attacks in Britain indicate a "new trend" that cannot be ignored. "We cannot and must not pretend that things can continue as they are," May said. In outlining a new four-point counter-terrorism plan, May called for defeating the "evil" ideology of Islamist extremism and increased cyberspace surveillance. She also called for boosting Britain's anti-terrorism strategy so that police and security forces would have the necessary means against extremists, raising the prospect of longer jail terms for terror-related offences.

Some of those injured in the attack were in a critical condition, London mayor Sadiq Khan told reporters, adding that the country's terror level remained at severe, meaning that another attack was highly likely. The attack comes days ahead of Britain's parliamentary elections. After May's Conservatives and other major political parties announced they would suspend campaigning on Sunday, the prime minister said the poll would be held on Thursday as scheduled.

MORE (http://www.officer.com/news/12340735/uk-police-arrest-12-suspects-in-deadly-london-bridge-terror-attack)

waltky
06-08-2017, 09:14 PM
What is known so far about London Bridge attack...
http://www.newsforum.com/images/smilies/confused.gif
A look at what is and isn't known about the London attack
Jun 4,`17: A look at what's known and what isn't about the violence in London that left seven people and three attackers dead:


WHAT HAPPENED?

Police say three men drove a van over London Bridge just before 10 p.m. Saturday and struck pedestrians before crashing the vehicle outside a pub. The attackers, wielding blades and knives, ran down a set of stairs into Borough Market, a well-known fruit and vegetable market that's also home to popular restaurants and pubs. There, they stabbed people in several different restaurants. Seven people were killed and at least 48 were hospitalized, 21 of whom are in critical condition. Others had minor injuries. Police fired 50 bullets to stop the violence, killing the three attackers and wounding one member of the public.


http://hosted.ap.org/photos/3/39ddecfb53844ed99381445538e55283_0-big.jpg
A woman hands a bouquet of flowers to be left in the London Bridge area of London, Sunday, June 4, 2017. Police specialists collected evidence in the heart of London after a series of attacks described as terrorism killed several people and injured more than 40 others.

WHO DID IT?

Police haven't said. The attackers were shot dead by police near the Wheatsheaf pub eight minutes after officers responded. The men were wearing what appeared to be vests with explosives, but Prime Minister Theresa May says they weren't real and were just meant to cause panic. Twelve people have been arrested in Barking in east London and raids are going on elsewhere. May characterizes the attack as the work of Islamic extremists. The news agency of the Islamic State militant group claims its fighters carried out attack, according to the SITE Intelligence Group.

WHAT ARE THE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS?

That's not clear either. There's an election Thursday that May called in an attempt to increase her Conservative Party's majority in Parliament. The Conservatives were far ahead in polls but their lead has narrowed in recent days. The main political parties halted national campaigning Sunday but were expected to resume Monday, and officials said the election wouldn't be canceled or postponed.

HAS THIS HAPPENED BEFORE?

This is the third attack in Britain in as many months. On May 22, a suicide bomber blew himself up at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, in northwest England, killing 22 people and injuring dozens more. In March, a British convert to Islam ran down people with a vehicle on Westminster Bridge, killing four before fatally stabbing a policeman on Parliament's grounds. May said Sunday that police had recently foiled five other plots.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_LONDON_BRIDGE_ATTACK_WHAT_WE_KNOW?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-06-04-19-16-28