A Center Libertarian Country?

[KC]

Has America gone from center-right to center-libertarian?

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-america-center-right-libertarian-20121112,0,4773786.story


After 32 straight losses for same-sex wedding laws, four states approved marriage-equality proposals last week. Two other states legalized marijuana for recreational purposes. Wisconsin elected the first openly homosexual U.S. senator in history, Tammy Baldwin. An Iowa Supreme Court justice targeted for removal because he voted in 2007 to approve gay marriage, David Wiggins, defeated an effort to oust him. And, crucially, Obama won with 60% of voters telling exit pollsters they supported the president’s call for higher taxes on the rich.
But Americans appear to remain more receptive to conservative viewpoints on spending, debt and the size of government. A bare majority, 51%, of voters last Tuesday told exit pollsters that government should do less, with 43% saying it should do more.



My thoughts: I don't think that most Americans are libertarian exactly. I think a lot of Americans still find a lot of security in the state. However, in general, it seems to be that support for social conservative issues like marijuana prohibition and gay marriage bans are waning, while the idea of limited government has regained a foot with the unpopularity of the individual mandate in Obamacare and the idea of getting serious about deficits. This sort of thing gives me a hope, but imo the author on this one goes a bit too far.

[Carygrant]

It takes societies a long time to change mind - set about "new" ideas , particularly when ethical and moral issues seem to be involved .
The speed of change --- or lack of it --- seems to tell you a great deal about individual cultures .
But does politics itself as a mass of ideas change?
Isn't it that for a period new issues are used to wield sticks --- in line with broad attitudes exhibited by existing groups --- who effectively hijack constructs for political capital ?

[Peter1469]

I think that the Tea Party(ies) represent this change. They are usually focused on economic issues as federal issues and are trying to push the social issues to the States where they belong. Although I understand that many libertarians wish to avoid the social issues all together.

[Chris]

It takes societies a long time to change mind - set about "new" ideas , particularly when ethical and moral issues seem to be involved .
The speed of change --- or lack of it --- seems to tell you a great deal about individual cultures .
But does politics itself as a mass of ideas change?
Isn't it that for a period new issues are used to wield sticks --- in line with broad attitudes exhibited by existing groups --- who effectively hijack constructs for political capital ?

New ideas? If the country is moving toward libertarianism then they are moving toward the classical liberal ideas the country was founded on. Those aren't new, they old, tried, true and tested. They work, unlike the new socialist-lite social democracy being experimented with these days.

As Peter says the tea parties represent this change back to something old: Smaller government, less taxes, more liberty.

I commend you for the first time I've ever seen actually trying to contribute to the topic with ideas rather than personal attacks.

[Chris]

Has America gone from center-right to center-libertarian?

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-america-center-right-libertarian-20121112,0,4773786.story



My thoughts: I don't think that most Americans are libertarian exactly. I think a lot of Americans still find a lot of security in the state. However, in general, it seems to be that support for social conservative issues like marijuana prohibition and gay marriage bans are waning, while the idea of limited government has regained a foot with the unpopularity of the individual mandate in Obamacare and the idea of getting serious about deficits. This sort of thing gives me a hope, but imo the author on this one goes a bit too far.

The only thing the article actually says about libertarianism is the old "So, left on social issues and right on economics. If you eliminated the desire to tax the rich, it would sound like we had a center-libertarian nation."

I don't think that's a good description of libertarianism as it looks only at political positions possibly taken and not principles applies to arrive at those positions.

And libertarianism is not center.

Looking at this representation,

http://i.snag.gy/3NPl0.jpg

we need to ask, is the country evolving above the politics of the last 60-70 years, or below? Are the country classes growing stronger, or the ruling classes?

[Trinnity]

A lot of people have a libertarian ethic and just don't know it. They're unfamiliar with "libertarian" as a political philosophy.

[KC]

The only thing the article actually says about libertarianism is the old "So, left on social issues and right on economics. If you eliminated the desire to tax the rich, it would sound like we had a center-libertarian nation."

I don't think that's a good description of libertarianism as it looks only at political positions possibly taken and not principles applies to arrive at those positions.

And libertarianism is not center.

Looking at this representation,

http://i.snag.gy/3NPl0.jpg

we need to ask, is the country evolving above the politics of the last 60-70 years, or below? Are the country classes growing stronger, or the ruling classes?

Right. Like I said, I don't think the country has moved to a center-libertarian place exactly, but majority stance on some issues are beginning to look something like that.

Of course libertarianism isn't center, but I think what he meant is that the center of US politics isn't to the right of the theoretical political center anymore, now it's to the right on economics and more libertarian on social issues, which would be a reasonable justification for what he is trying to claim.

[Chris]

That would make both major parties non-representative of the people.

[KC]

That would make both major parties non-representative of the people.

I would make that argument. I don't think either party is representative of the people.

But then, I think a lot of things about the major political parties. For example, there is very little daylight between them on foreign policy issues, corporatism, the welfare state and the drug wars.

[Chris]

I would make that argument. I don't think either party is representative of the people.

But then, I think a lot of things about the major political parties. For example, there is very little daylight between them on foreign policy issues, corporatism, the welfare state and the drug wars.

Agree with you there.

So it's no wonder the ruling classses in the federal government are out of touch with the country classes.

[Mainecoons]

I would make that argument. I don't think either party is representative of the people.

But then, I think a lot of things about the major political parties. For example, there is very little daylight between them on foreign policy issues, corporatism, the welfare state and the drug wars.

Post of the day. :grin: