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View Full Version : Polarization in America - who is to blame?



Dr. Who
09-25-2017, 09:49 PM
How divided are we?

For some, America is indeed a polarized nation, perhaps more so today than at any time in living memory.
....

As summed up by the distinguished social scientist who writes humor columns under the name of Dave Barry, residents of Red states are “ignorant racist fascist knuckle-dragging NASCAR-obsessed cousin-marrying road-kill-eating tobacco-juice-dribbling gun-fondling religious fanatic rednecks,” while Blue-state residents are “godless unpatriotic pierced-nose Volvo-driving France-loving leftwing Communist latte-sucking tofu-chomping holistic-wacko neurotic vegan weenie perverts.”

....

The reasons for the widening fissures in Congress are not far to seek. Each of the political parties was once a coalition of dissimilar forces: liberal Northern Democrats and conservative Southern Democrats, liberal coastal Republicans and conservative Midwestern Republicans. No longer; the realignments of the South (now overwhelmingly Republican) and of New England (now strongly Democratic) have all but eliminated legislators who deviate from the party's leadership. Conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans are endangered species now approaching extinction. At the same time, the ideological gap between the parties is growing: if there was once a large overlap between Democrats and Republicans—remember “Tweedledum and Tweedledee”?—today that congruence has almost disappeared. By the late 1990's, virtually every Democrat was more liberal than virtually every Republican.

The result has been not only intense partisanship but a sharp rise in congressional incivility. In 1995, a Republican-controlled Senate passed a budget that President Clinton proceeded to veto; in the loggerhead that followed, many federal agencies shut down (in a move that backfired on the Republicans). Congressional debates have seen an increase not only in heated exchanges but in the number of times a representative's words are either ruled out of order or “taken down” (that is, written by the clerk and then read aloud, with the offending member being asked if he or she wishes to withdraw them).

....

Next, the mass media. Not only are they themselves increasingly polarized, but consumers are well aware of it and act on that awareness. Fewer people now subscribe to newspapers or watch the network evening news.

....

In part, media bias feeds into, and off, an increase in business competition. In the 1950's, television news amounted to a brief 30-minute interlude in the day's programming, and not a very profitable one at that

....

The news we get is not only more omnipresent, it is also more competitive and hence often more adversarial. When there were only three television networks, and radio stations were forbidden by the fairness doctrine from broadcasting controversial views, the media gravitated toward the middle of the ideological spectrum, where the large markets could be found. But now that technology has created cable news and the Internet, and now that the fairness doctrine has by and large been repealed, many media outlets find their markets at the ideological extremes.

....

As one journalist has remarked about the change in his profession, “We don't deal in facts [any longer], but in attributed opinions.” Or, these days, in unattributed opinions. And those opinions are more intensely rivalrous than was once the case.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/how-divided-are-we/


That story was posted in February of 2006.

Now today:



U.S. Political System Is Structured to Divide

Harvard Business School Professor Michael Porter is basically saying that Congress has been moribund for 20 years. It no longer cares about the pressing issues of the nation, it is just caught up in partisan opposition for its own sake.
https://www.xumo.tv/video/XM0V66HXDTRUYA/haass-tpp-passage-a-no-brainer-for-an-open-economy


I think that the change in the media's reporting of the news is a reflection of the political reality in Congress which has become so polarized that there was no middle position possible, so sides had to be taken in order to cater to an increasingly divided public.

NapRover
09-25-2017, 10:13 PM
Watching the Vietnam War on PBS, we were pretty divided back then! But I'd guess that we're very close to that level again. Downright hatred of each other!

Dr. Who
09-25-2017, 10:37 PM
Watching the Vietnam War on PBS, we were pretty divided back then! But I'd guess that we're very close to that level again. Downright hatred of each other!
It's kind of crazy if you think about it. People are not really all that far apart, but they are led to believe that they are and perception is everything. No one but the politicians and the media are benefitting from this polarization. It's like that old saying about dividing and conquering. I think it's really a scam to delude the people and distract them from the fact that the government (and that includes all elected reps) is catering to everyone but the people. What better way than to create a Hatfields vs McCoys feud?

resister
09-25-2017, 10:50 PM
It's kind of crazy if you think about it. People are not really all that far apart, but they are led to believe that they are and perception is everything. No one but the politicians and the media are benefitting from this polarization. It's like that old saying about dividing and conquering. I think it's really a scam to delude the people and distract them from the fact that the government (and that includes all elected reps) is catering to everyone but the people. What better way than to create a Hatfields vs McCoys feud?
A political tactic as old as politics, keep the people infighting and they will be to busy to focus on the real cause!

Dr. Who
09-25-2017, 10:57 PM
A political tactic as old as politics, keep the people infighting and they will be to busy to focus on the real cause!
Absolutely, which is why all of the adversarial discussion on this forum is so perplexing. If the people who visit this forum are aware that they are deliberately being played, why pander to the manipulators? It doesn't mean that we won't disagree, but the rhetoric could definitely be dialed down along with the portrayal of each other as evil.

resister
09-25-2017, 10:59 PM
Absolutely, which is why all of the adversarial discussion on this forum is so perplexing. If the people who visit this forum are aware that they are deliberately being played, why pander to the manipulators? It doesn't mean that we won't disagree, but the rhetoric could definitely be dialed down along with the portrayal of each other as evil.
Agreed, both sides are played against the middle!

As those that manipulate the strings, laugh from afar.

Cthulhu
09-25-2017, 11:24 PM
I blame the faggots. Not just the gay ones either.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

resister
09-25-2017, 11:27 PM
I blame the faggots. Not just the gay ones either.

Sent from my evil cell phone.
What do cigarettes or a bundle of kindling have to do with anything? I was all happy and gay until my faggs got wet! :)

waltky
09-26-2017, 05:20 AM
Granny says prob'ly dem folks at Kodak...

... dey the ones dat invented dat Polaroid camera.

Chris
09-26-2017, 08:32 AM
We're supposed to be divided, we're all different, only liberal egalitarians think otherwise. I was reading somewhere the other day that reducing us all to be one and the same is a basic precondition for introducing communism.

gamewell45
09-26-2017, 09:42 AM
I think that the change in the media's reporting of the news is a reflection of the political reality in Congress which has become so polarized that there was no middle position possible, so sides had to be taken in order to cater to an increasingly divided public.

Agreed; moreover with the advent of cable & satellite tv, the media in this country has evolved from the traditional big "three" networks where objective reporting was the order of the day to today's media where most editorial decisions are based on political agenda's hence you no longer have for all intents and purposes the objective reporting we all grew up with.

Green Arrow
09-26-2017, 10:20 AM
The U.S. political system IS designed for division, Washington knew that and that's why he spent his farewell address warning us against the creation of parties and factions. That was America's Original Sin, Jefferson and Adams I hating each other so badly that they formed parties with the sole goal of destroying the other's political agenda. Back then, at least, we had multiple parties represented in government, but Ross Perot's surprise third party showing against Bush I and Clinton taught the entrenched parties that they needed to do more to limit alternative voices. So they built further suppression into the system to choke the life out of their opposition.

Tear down the dictatorial system Republicans and Democrats created. Make them earn their seats FAIRLY, with multiple parties representing every American voice, or ban parties altogether, and our country will be better for it.

Common
09-26-2017, 05:40 PM
The U.S. political system IS designed for division, Washington knew that and that's why he spent his farewell address warning us against the creation of parties and factions. That was America's Original Sin, Jefferson and Adams I hating each other so badly that they formed parties with the sole goal of destroying the other's political agenda. Back then, at least, we had multiple parties represented in government, but Ross Perot's surprise third party showing against Bush I and Clinton taught the entrenched parties that they needed to do more to limit alternative voices. So they built further suppression into the system to choke the life out of their opposition.

Tear down the dictatorial system Republicans and Democrats created. Make them earn their seats FAIRLY, with multiple parties representing every American voice, or ban parties altogether, and our country will be better for it.
I agree but I do believe a part of the problem is the voters on both sides of the isle are demanding party line politics. Im talking the far right and the far left, demanding their politicians follow the agenda they want

Green Arrow
09-26-2017, 06:18 PM
I agree but I do believe a part of the problem is the voters on both sides of the isle are demanding party line politics. Im talking the far right and the far left, demanding their politicians follow the agenda they want

I'm not trying to be snarky, so please don't take it that way, but I think you're off-base a bit when you blame the "far-right" and "far-left" for this stuff. This is a problem that has been going on for as long as we've been a country, and both the "far-right" and "far-left" (who really are just "the right" and "the left") have been on the outside looking in for the entirety of it. It is and has always been the center-right and center-left that controlled the parties and created the suppression in the system, and it is they that created the division. The reaction that you complain about from the left and right is them being pissed off at being ignored all the time while the centrists on both sides destroy the whole thing.

The right and left are not your enemies. It's the people in between that you should be worried about.

MisterVeritis
09-26-2017, 06:20 PM
Tear down the dictatorial system Republicans and Democrats created. Make them earn their seats FAIRLY, with multiple parties representing every American voice, or ban parties altogether, and our country will be better for it.
This is utter nonsense. Fortunately, your views don't matter in this case.

Green Arrow
09-26-2017, 06:24 PM
This is utter nonsense. Fortunately, your views don't matter in this case.

On the contrary, it's the partisan dinosaurs like yourself that are becoming increasingly marginalized.

Dr. Who
09-26-2017, 06:37 PM
On the contrary, it's the partisan dinosaurs like yourself that are becoming increasingly marginalized.

I wonder how long a restaurant would last that only served hamburgers with gravy with fried potatoes or hamburgers with gravy with boiled potatoes, a choice of beans, peas or carrots and only interrupted with the soup of the week (either chicken, vegetable or potato on alternating weeks)? That's pretty much the duopoly for all practical purposes.

Common
09-27-2017, 07:34 AM
It's kind of crazy if you think about it. People are not really all that far apart, but they are led to believe that they are and perception is everything. No one but the politicians and the media are benefitting from this polarization. It's like that old saying about dividing and conquering. I think it's really a scam to delude the people and distract them from the fact that the government (and that includes all elected reps) is catering to everyone but the people. What better way than to create a Hatfields vs McCoys feud?
There are some issues theres a huge divide, illegal immigration for one, transexuals in womens bathrooms, this new genderless society.


Race has always been used for a wedge thats nothing new.

We have been divided all my voting life, as naprover said the country was in total dissaray during the nam war and after. Decade after decade there has always been an issue or 5 to divide us.

Whenever either party went to far left or to far right there was huge rift opened and the american people chose a side and ended it. That is happening today there is a huge rift opened by the far left. There is a more recent phenomena people actually switching sides because of wedge issues.

After my day is done the country sometime after that will go full blown left wing, the younger generations that have been trained by public education and professors will rule.

What the country is going through now is the same as it did after nam, the greatest generation being move out by the nam babyboomer generation. Today its the baby boomer generation of politicians being moved out. Were in the midst of another generational change in politics.

Chris
09-27-2017, 07:37 AM
There are some issues theres a huge divide, illegal immigration for one, transexuals in womens bathrooms, this new genderless society.


Race has always been used for a wedge thats nothing new.

We have been divided all my voting life, as naprover said the country was in total dissaray during the nam war and after. Decade after decade there has always been an issue or 5 to divide us.

Whenever either party went to far left or to far right there was huge rift opened and the american people chose a side and ended it. That is happening today there is a huge rift opened by the far left. There is a more recent phenomena people actually switching sides because of wedge issues.

After my day is done the country sometime after that will go full blown left wing, the younger generations that have been trained by public education and professors will rule.

What the country is going through now is the same as it did after nam, the greatest generation being move out by the nam babyboomer generation. Today its the baby boomer generation of politicians being moved out. Were in the midst of another generational change in politics.


GO back to the thread on photographing a gay wedding: Hell, we can even agree what the topic is!

Common
09-27-2017, 07:41 AM
I'm not trying to be snarky, so please don't take it that way, but I think you're off-base a bit when you blame the "far-right" and "far-left" for this stuff. This is a problem that has been going on for as long as we've been a country, and both the "far-right" and "far-left" (who really are just "the right" and "the left") have been on the outside looking in for the entirety of it. It is and has always been the center-right and center-left that controlled the parties and created the suppression in the system, and it is they that created the division. The reaction that you complain about from the left and right is them being pissed off at being ignored all the time while the centrists on both sides destroy the whole thing.

The right and left are not your enemies. It's the people in between that you should be worried about.

We have to disagree then :) The far left is Warren, Sanders, Antifa, BLM and those that fight for illegal immigrants to have sanctuary status, those that believe transexuals should be in opposiite gender bathrooms.

The far right are those that believe workers should work for nothing with no benefits, no one should get any govt assistance. Social Security and Medicare Medicaid and foodstamps should be abolished. In other words those totally on the far side of the spectrum.

The way many people view this is theres a campaign waged to denigrate white people and blame them for everything that happened in the past the present and the future.

The far left wants to erase history and re write it as their own, tearing down not only confederate statues but other statues of founders. I could go on and on but what for, we will still disagree in the end.

You and I seem to be the perfect examples of polar difference, we disagree on most everything :)

Common
09-27-2017, 08:39 AM
GO back to the thread on photographing a gay wedding: Hell, we can even agree what the topic is!
It seems like we aspire to disagree anymore lol, thank goodness Im not around this in real life, theres an occaisional conversation and alot of differences but they are civil and dont hurt relationshis. I think thats because we are actually looking at each other

Chris
09-27-2017, 08:46 AM
It seems like we aspire to disagree anymore lol, thank goodness Im not around this in real life, theres an occaisional conversation and alot of differences but they are civil and dont hurt relationshis. I think thats because we are actually looking at each other

I tried to explain that case to my parents--in their 90s--yesterday and they just couldn't understand gay marriage. My dad tried to relate by telling a story when he was in the Navy, some shipyard down south, he boarded a bus and sat in the back and the bus driver came back and told him he couldn't sit there.

NapRover
09-27-2017, 08:48 AM
Who's to blame? Obviously, it's those for whom polarization is the goal.

Dr. Who
09-27-2017, 08:55 PM
There are some issues theres a huge divide, illegal immigration for one, transexuals in womens bathrooms, this new genderless society.


Race has always been used for a wedge thats nothing new.

We have been divided all my voting life, as naprover said the country was in total dissaray during the nam war and after. Decade after decade there has always been an issue or 5 to divide us.

Whenever either party went to far left or to far right there was huge rift opened and the american people chose a side and ended it. That is happening today there is a huge rift opened by the far left. There is a more recent phenomena people actually switching sides because of wedge issues.

After my day is done the country sometime after that will go full blown left wing, the younger generations that have been trained by public education and professors will rule.

What the country is going through now is the same as it did after nam, the greatest generation being move out by the nam babyboomer generation. Today its the baby boomer generation of politicians being moved out. Were in the midst of another generational change in politics.
Would it surprise you to know that the bulk of illegal immigration ended in 2007 and the vast majority of illegals have been in America for decades or that at least 1,000,000 illegals left on their own during the global financial crisis? It might also come as a surprise that many Mexicans both illegal and legal have been flocking back to Mexico because the Mexican economy has been improving and family considerations like aging parents back home, are drawing people back across the border such that the current rate of illegal Mexican immigration is actually in negative territory. Yet the perception during the past election according to the campaign rhetoric was that illegal immigration is out of control.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-02-21/the-myth-of-the-u-s-immigration-crisis

There have always been transexuals in ladies bathrooms. No one used to talk about it before. If this was an issue, it would have been an issue a long time ago. There have never been any laws about bathrooms. It was just a social rule.

Yes, the one constant in life is change. The society that you grew up in was different from that of your parents and their's was different from that of their parents. Every older generation thinks that society is going to the dogs.