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Chris
11-20-2012, 05:27 PM
Liberals like to blame the repeal of Glass-Steegal for the economic crisis. But this is based on misundertanding what it was and what happened.


Myth 1: Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999 by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.

No. Glass-Steagall was never repealed. It is still applicable to insured banks and forbids them from underwriting or dealing in securities. What was repealed in 1999 were the sections of Glass-Steagall that prohibited insured banks from being affiliated with firms—commonly called investment banks—that engaged in underwriting and dealing in securities.

Myth 2: The repeal of Glass-Steagall allowed banks to use taxpayer-insured funds for risky trading.

No. The portions of Glass-Steagall that remained in effect after 1999 prohibited insured banks from underwriting or dealing in securities. However, before and after 1999, banks were permitted to trade (that is, buy and sell) bonds and other fixed-income securities for their own account....

Myth 3: In the financial crisis, banks got into trouble by trading “risky” mortgage-backed securities (MBS).

No. Insured banks got into trouble in the financial crisis by buying and holding MBS backed by subprime and other low-quality mortgages, not from trading these instruments. When these loans declined in value in 2007, they caused significant losses to the banks that had invested in them. This is the same thing as saying that banks got into trouble by making bad loans, but it has nothing to do with Glass-Steagall or its supposed repeal....

Myth 4: The repeal of Glass-Steagall allowed bank holding companies and bank-affiliated investment banks to use insured funds for risky trading.

Very unlikely. The 1999 change in Glass-Steagall allowed insured banks to be affiliated with investment banks, which could indeed take substantial risks in underwriting, dealing, and trading securities of all types. Investment banks—even those affiliated with insured banks—have no access to insured deposits. Moreover, banking regulations make it extremely difficult for insured banks to lend funds to, guarantee, or otherwise assume or support the risk-taking of their affiliates....

Myth 5: By allowing insured banks to affiliate with risk-taking investment banks, the 1999 change in Glass-Steagall caused losses to the banks that contributed to the financial crisis.

No. As noted above, insured banks suffered losses in the financial crisis by making bad loans—that is, buying and holding MBS based on subprime and other low-quality mortgages.....

I probably cut out too much but you can read all # Five Myths about Glass-Steagall (http://www.american.com/archive/2012/august/five-myths-about-glass-steagall).

Or read @ Let’s shatter the myth on Glass-Steagall (http://www.washingtonpost.com/lets-shatter-the-myth-on-glass-steagall/2012/07/27/gJQASaOAGX_story.html):


...“So after the Great Depression, Congress wanted to put a firewall between the [banks and the] investment banks. They wanted to make sure that Wall Street could melt to the ground and the commercial banks wouldn’t be touched. They passed a law, the Glass-Steagall Act. Now you could be Gordon Gekko [tycoon in the movie “Wall Street] or George Bailey [small-town banker in the movie classic, “It’s a Wonderful Life”], but you couldn’t be both.”

Then, explains the brainy-but-beautiful correspondent, Ronald Reagan launched a two-decade push toward deregulation, which culminates in the repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1999. Suddenly, Gordon Gekko could make risky bets with George Bailey’s deposits, and the rest, as they say, is history.

It was vintage Sorkin: eloquent, fast-paced dialogue that perfectly channels the liberal political/cultural zeitgeist, transforming what appears to be a complex story into a simple morality play.

The only thing is, it’s not true — not even close. Yet it has been repeated so many times — on PBS and NPR, in the liberal blogosphere, on very-serious Op-Ed pages, in an Oscar-winning documentary....

Deadwood
11-20-2012, 05:42 PM
Liberals like to blame the repeal of Glass-Steegal for the economic crisis. But this is based on misundertanding what it was and what happened.

I probably cut out too much but you can read all # Five Myths about Glass-Steagall (http://www.american.com/archive/2012/august/five-myths-about-glass-steagall).

Or read @ Let’s shatter the myth on Glass-Steagall (http://www.washingtonpost.com/lets-shatter-the-myth-on-glass-steagall/2012/07/27/gJQASaOAGX_story.html):



“So after the Great Depression, Congress wanted to put a firewall between the [banks and the] investment banks. They wanted to make sure that Wall Street could melt to the ground and the commercial banks wouldn’t be touched. They passed a law, the Glass-Steagall Act. Now you could be Gordon Gekko [tycoon in the movie “Wall Street] or George Bailey [small-town banker in the movie classic, “It’s a Wonderful Life”], but you couldn’t be both.”

Then, explains the brainy-but-beautiful correspondent, Ronald Reagan launched a two-decade push toward deregulation, which culminates in the repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1999. Suddenly, Gordon Gekko could make risky bets with George Bailey’s deposits, and the rest, as they say, is history.

It was vintage Sorkin: eloquent, fast-paced dialogue that perfectly channels the liberal political/cultural zeitgeist, transforming what appears to be a complex story into a simple morality play.

The only thing is, it’s not true — not even close. Yet it has been repeated so many times — on PBS and NPR, in the liberal blogosphere, on very-serious Op-Ed pages, in an Oscar-winning documentary....

It's truthiness. There is just enough right in there to let Obama win a debate with his talent for semantics. Ronald Reagan did NOT, in fact, begin the trend to lower and lower down payments and lower qualifications. That was Jimmy Carter, who, faced with a crisis similar to what we have now, bought into the idea that 'it's real estate, the price never goes down...' which we found out is kinda not...true that is.
There is where it all started. You see it was there that so much feeble debt started showing up.
And then we have the Clinton ere, where the reins were pulled off completely, Canada was pressured to do likewise. We remain grateful that the government of the day rejected it and went the other way.

So, as usual we have facts and truth mixed with myth and lies; government of the times.

Chris
11-20-2012, 06:28 PM
It's truthiness. There is just enough right in there to let Obama win a debate with his talent for semantics.

For a liberal, yes, to twist facts with semantics, repeated often enough to sound truthy.

KC
11-20-2012, 06:36 PM
In High School, when I was still trying to figure out my political leanings (now I'm convinced this is a life long process, but anyhow), I spent a lot of time researching possible explanations for what caused the financial crisis. I ended up taking a very favorable position toward regulation of the financial sector because what I found seemed so intuitive. There seemed to be a period of relative stability in financial markets up until recently, and what I learned about Glass Steagal seemed like a likely catalyst.

Eventually I learned better, but my point is that for the layman who doesn't get over involved in policy, this seems like a reasonable position, and I think most who take it think that they're making a well informed decision based on the evidence.

Chris
11-20-2012, 06:43 PM
But not all of the evidence for the other half of the evidence shows how far back as FDR with Fannie and Freddie on through each policy act government incentivized and promised to bail financial risks in institutions and consumers.

As my second link points out: "Repeal of Glass-Steagall has become for the Democratic left what Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are for the Republican right — a simple and facially plausible conspiracy theory about the crisis that reinforces what they already believed about financial markets and economic policy."

On my view, what you get when you combine both narratives is a story of a main character, a major villain, government, playing the part of an incompetent crony, with minor villains, bankers, financiers, playing their parts to take advantage of it.

Peter1469
11-20-2012, 06:52 PM
Before the repeal, you saw either the banking sector or the financial sector crash. After we saw them both crash at once. That is what made 2008 so bad.

Deadwood
11-20-2012, 07:05 PM
In High School, when I was still trying to figure out my political leanings (now I'm convinced this is a life long process, but anyhow), I spent a lot of time researching possible explanations for what caused the financial crisis. I ended up taking a very favorable position toward regulation of the financial sector because what I found seemed so intuitive. There seemed to be a period of relative stability in financial markets up until recently, and what I learned about Glass Steagal seemed like a likely catalyst.

Eventually I learned better, but my point is that for the layman who doesn't get over involved in policy, this seems like a reasonable position, and I think most who take it think that they're making a well informed decision based on the evidence.



Yes, it did SEEM to come fast. But some economists, including David Dodge the now head of the Bank of Canada, the country's regulatory body, warned the US during the later part of the Clinton administration. It started to mentioned as a looming crisis at least year before the crash and no one was listening. I don't have much but it all got moved in 2007.

I agree. The more I've seen, in all the tinkering with regulations etc., the more I favor strict regulations. Greed is in us all.

I would suggest you take a look, if you haven't already, at a film called "Inside Job".

KC
11-20-2012, 07:10 PM
Yes, it did SEEM to come fast. But some economists, including David Dodge the now head of the Bank of Canada, the country's regulatory body, warned the US during the later part of the Clinton administration. It started to mentioned as a looming crisis at least year before the crash and no one was listening. I don't have much but it all got moved in 2007.

I agree. The more I've seen, in all the tinkering with regulations etc., the more I favor strict regulations. Greed is in us all.

I would suggest you take a look, if you haven't already, at a film called "Inside Job".

I've come to draw the opposite conclusion. When it comes to economics, no one's hands are clean, so I don't want to give regulators power. I've eventually come around to support less regulation. If a problem needs regulation, let's leave that to the states. That way if the regulation is harmful, people can vote with their feet.

Mainecoons
11-20-2012, 07:25 PM
It seems to me that the Canadians provide an example of how to regulate the financial industry. They have pretty much dodged the bullet.

Deadwood
11-20-2012, 07:28 PM
I've come to draw the opposite conclusion. When it comes to economics, no one's hands are clean, so I don't want to give regulators power. I've eventually come around to support less regulation. If a problem needs regulation, let's leave that to the states. That way if the regulation is harmful, people can vote with their feet.


What Maincoons said

Peter1469
11-20-2012, 07:47 PM
It seems to me that the Canadians provide an example of how to regulate the financial industry. They have pretty much dodged the bullet.

They don't allow their banks to gamble with depositors' money.

Chris
11-20-2012, 07:58 PM
They don't allow their banks to gamble with depositors' money.

But is that what caused the financial crisis. The myths exposed in the OP seem to say not. Besides, if I save at a bank I expect they will invest it. Seems to me the problem lies elsewhere, the OP says "buying and holding MBS based on subprime and other low-quality mortgages".

Peter1469
11-20-2012, 08:09 PM
But is that what caused the financial crisis. The myths exposed in the OP seem to say not. Besides, if I save at a bank I expect they will invest it. Seems to me the problem lies elsewhere, the OP says "buying and holding MBS based on subprime and other low-quality mortgages".

That is why I disagree with the OP.

What happened in 1987 and what didn't happen in 1987 (hint, only the S&Ls crashed, not the financial sector).

Chris
11-20-2012, 08:57 PM
That is why I disagree with the OP.

What happened in 1987 and what didn't happen in 1987 (hint, only the S&Ls crashed, not the financial sector).

The facts, from the second link of the OP, which goes into the myth of G-S in more detail, says they didn't cross any line:
Facts such as that Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch — three institutions at the heart of the crisis — were pure investment banks that had never crossed the old line into commercial banking. The same goes for Goldman Sachs, another favorite villain of the left.

The infamous AIG? An insurance firm. New Century Financial? A real estate investment trust. No Glass-Steagall there.

Two of the biggest banks that went under, Wachovia and Washington Mutual, got into trouble the old-fashioned way – largely by making risky loans to homeowners. Bank of America nearly met the same fate, not because it had bought an investment bank but because it had bought Countrywide Financial, a vanilla-variety mortgage lender.