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Chris
11-06-2017, 02:50 PM
Jonah Goldberg let's loose on both Republicans and Democrats.

Could It Be that Both Parties Are Doomed? (https://fee.org/articles/could-it-be-that-both-parties-are-doomed/)


...The GOP is running as smoothly as a dry Slip ’N Slide made from sandpaper. That the party is as dysfunctional as the human-resources department at the Weinstein Company stems from a host of ideological, political, and structural problems that are only compounded by the fact that the president grabs the public’s attention like a spider monkey running through a church with a lit stick of dynamite.

The Democratic party, meanwhile, has gotten drunk on the spectacle. And as with many a drunk, it’s grown oblivious to its own decrepitude. Like a bitter lush sitting in his own filth amid a sea of empty bottles, moldering pizza boxes, and fried-chicken bones, it shouts at the TV and boasts how it could do better.

...Again, you wouldn’t be crazy for thinking the GOP is like a runaway fire at a soiled-diaper-reclamation center. And I’m sure I’ll have opportunities in the near future to expand on that.

But the important point is that dysfunction isn’t zero-sum. Right now, the best argument Republicans have is “we’re not Democrats,” and the best argument Democrats have is “we’re not Republicans.” Like two punch-drunk pugilists leaning on each other in the twelfth round, if one falls, the other may well fall too.

Everywhere else in America today, disrupters – Uber, Amazon, etc. – are dismantling established institutions. Perhaps both political parties are the next institutions to crumble under creative destruction. Or maybe not. But if it happens, no one can say they didn’t have it coming.


It's high time to disrupt and dismantle and destroy both dysfunctional parties.

Don
11-18-2017, 11:37 AM
"Party's" have too much power and they abuse it regularly. Not only do they blackmail other "party members" into toeing the line they only back new candidates who will toe the line. Both parties have done this for decades. The Republican party always seem to throw their weight behind "moderate" candidates and even work against true conservatives or small government types smearing them as "extremists." I believe what we have now is one party with two wings, the establishment party.

Common Sense
11-18-2017, 11:42 AM
I've been saying for a while now that the current political climate is a perfect opportunity to start a new party that combines aspects of both sides.

Chris
11-18-2017, 11:45 AM
"Party's" have too much power and they abuse it regularly. Not only do they blackmail other "party members" into toeing the line they only back new candidates who will toe the line. Both parties have done this for decades. The Republican party always seem to throw their weight behind "moderate" candidates and even work against true conservatives or small government types smearing them as "extremists." I believe what we have now is one party with two wings, the establishment party.


It wouldn't matter so much of once elected they stayed within Constitutional limits but they stray more and more into controlling our lives.

Chris
11-18-2017, 11:47 AM
I've been saying for a while now that the current political climate is a perfect opportunity to start a new party that combines aspects of both sides.

Won't happen. Out winner-take-all elections promote this duopoly.

Common Sense
11-18-2017, 11:48 AM
Won't happen. Out winner-take-all elections promote this duopoly.
That's why I favour a parliamentary system.

Chris
11-18-2017, 11:50 AM
That's why I favour a parliamentary system.

Proportional representation would be better.

gamewell45
11-18-2017, 11:57 AM
It's high time to disrupt and dismantle and destroy both dysfunctional parties.

I think both parties are doing an excellent job of destroying themselves; that being said I honestly believe that political parties such as the Libertarians, Green party and Reform parties will come into prominence in the near future as many Americans no longer trust either the republican or democrat parties.

As a life-long independent, I look forward to seeing change take place, its way overdue.

Chris
11-18-2017, 12:02 PM
I think both parties are doing an excellent job of destroying themselves; that being said I honestly believe that political parties such as the Libertarians, Green party and Reform parties will come into prominence in the near future as many Americans no longer trust either the republican or democrat parties.

As a life-long independent, I look forward to seeing change take place, its way overdue.



Well, I certainly hope third parties rise up to replace the dysfunctional duopoly. They will need a place on the national debate stage. The latest lawsuit pursing that was shot down: Judge dismisses debate lawsuit filed by Gary Johnson and Jill Stein (http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/05/media/debate-lawsuit-gary-johnson-jill-stein/index.html).

countryboy
11-18-2017, 01:41 PM
I've been saying for a while now that the current political climate is a perfect opportunity to start a new party that combines aspects of both sides.
We already have the Libertarian Party, and they have never been able to gain any traction (thank God)

Cthulhu
11-18-2017, 02:36 PM
We already have the Libertarian Party, and they have never been able to gain any traction (thank God)That is the only party which makes sense.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Common
11-18-2017, 02:39 PM
We already have the Libertarian Party, and they have never been able to gain any traction (thank God)
Thats because they take far right stances and far left stances, for example

They are are all for cutting social security medicare and giving tax cuts to corps and the rich and on the other side they are for legalizing all drugs.

Most of america is against both those things. Thats why Ron and Ran and Johnson are republicans

Common
11-18-2017, 02:39 PM
That is the only party which makes sense.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Most of america has always disagreed Cth

Cthulhu
11-18-2017, 02:41 PM
Most of america has always disagreed CthTrue. But they have never really had fair access to public platforms either.

Ron Paul never got a fair shake, neither did Perot.

Dems and Reps may claim to publicly hate each other, but really, they only oppose libertarians.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

MisterVeritis
11-18-2017, 02:42 PM
Well, I certainly hope third parties rise up to replace the dysfunctional duopoly. They will need a place on the national debate stage. The latest lawsuit pursing that was shot down: Judge dismisses debate lawsuit filed by Gary Johnson and Jill Stein (http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/05/media/debate-lawsuit-gary-johnson-jill-stein/index.html).
The only thing standing in the way of your dreams are the people.

Chris
11-18-2017, 02:46 PM
That is the only party which makes sense.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Does it? I mean here's a political party that supposedly represents libertarian from minarchist to anarchist, running for position in the federal government that centrally plans our lives. I joined them when they were state-centered, there was a TX Libertarian Party, a LA Libertarian Party, they sent out a free newletter chock full of great libertarian ideas--but they want nationals and I dropeed out.

Chris
11-18-2017, 02:47 PM
The only thing standing in the way of your dreams are the people.

My dreams? I would prefer the people self-govern rather than be governed by a government that doesn't trust them.

Chris
11-18-2017, 02:49 PM
True. But they have never really had fair access to public platforms either.

Ron Paul never got a fair shake, neither did Perot.

Dems and Reps may claim to publicly hate each other, but really, they only oppose libertarians.

Sent from my evil cell phone.


That I do agree with, that they, the Libertarians, and the Greens, etc, should get fair access to public platforms like the national debates. It's more important to get their ideas out there infront of the public than their actually winning offices.

Cthulhu
11-18-2017, 02:52 PM
Does it? I mean here's a political party that supposedly represents libertarian from minarchist to anarchist, running for position in the federal government that centrally plans our lives. I joined them when they were state-centered, there was a TX Libertarian Party, a LA Libertarian Party, they sent out a free newletter chock full of great libertarian ideas--but they want nationals and I dropeed out.Nationally speaking the non interventionist aspect appeals to me the most. Along with a host of social issues.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

countryboy
11-18-2017, 02:54 PM
That is the only party which makes sense.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

They're great on fiscal matters, they pretty much put the "Lib" in Libertarian on everything else.

Chris
11-18-2017, 02:57 PM
Nationally speaking the non interventionist aspect appeals to me the most. Along with a host of social issues.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Perhaps his best statement of noninterventionism, it defines libertarianism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEDs6c5UD6I

But the federal government by its very nature is interventionist in our personal lives. Mr. Smith may go to Washington a noninterventionist but sooner or later becomes an interventionist.

MisterVeritis
11-18-2017, 02:58 PM
My dreams? I would prefer the people self-govern rather than be governed by a government that doesn't trust them.
How do your wishes for self-government differ from today's scheme?

Don
11-18-2017, 03:02 PM
Thats because they take far right stances and far left stances, for example

They are are all for cutting social security medicare and giving tax cuts to corps and the rich and on the other side they are for legalizing all drugs.

Most of america is against both those things. Thats why Ron and Ran and Johnson are republicans

That's why Ron and Rand and Johnson are republicans. Too bad about 85% of those other politicians get away with calling themselves republicans. Orwell at work here. About as bad as China calling itself the "peoples republic" or antifa calling itself "anti fascist."

Chris
11-18-2017, 03:06 PM
How do your wishes for self-government differ from today's scheme?

Already answered: "governed by a government that doesn't trust them." Governed by a government that think it knows better what's good for them--for us.

barb012
11-18-2017, 03:10 PM
It would be in the best interest of the public to do away with this two-party system since it obstructs getting their jobs done. If politicians do not have to worry about party affiliations to get elected anymore, we would be able to hold them accountable for campaign promises that ultimately is the reason why we elect them. It would also reduce the criminal element significantly.

barb012
11-18-2017, 03:15 PM
I've been saying for a while now that the current political climate is a perfect opportunity to start a new party that combines aspects of both sides.
We have only one government so no party is necessary.

MisterVeritis
11-18-2017, 03:23 PM
Already answered: "governed by a government that doesn't trust them." Governed by a government that think it knows better what's good for them--for us.
Okay. That is a bland, general answer. Thanks.

The Xl
11-18-2017, 03:28 PM
I really hope so, but the establishment and the media is going to make that very difficult.

Common
11-18-2017, 03:36 PM
That's why Ron and Rand and Johnson are republicans. Too bad about 85% of those other politicians get away with calling themselves republicans. Orwell at work here. About as bad as China calling itself the "peoples republic" or antifa calling itself "anti fascist."
Don as long as the Republican party gives the impression their focus is on the rich and corporate and banking america, they will be held back voter wise.

If anyones been reading most of america believes the tax cut is for the rich.

If youre reading more you can read that the chances of losing the house and senate have gotten much greater than even 6 months ago

Corporate america doesnt ELECT republicans the middle class does and they had better have alot of lovins for the middleclass in this tax bill. So far what ive read it isnt much

Chris
11-18-2017, 03:44 PM
Don as long as the Republican party gives the impression their focus is on the rich and corporate and banking america, they will be held back voter wise.

If anyones been reading most of america believes the tax cut is for the rich.

If youre reading more you can read that the chances of losing the house and senate have gotten much greater than even 6 months ago

Corporate america doesnt ELECT republicans the middle class does and they had better have alot of lovins for the middleclass in this tax bill. So far what ive read it isnt much


Thing is, common, Trump ran as populist for the working man against a candidate in the top 0.1% who'd been bought and paid for by corporate America, and the Dems nominated here over their own populist working man candidate.

MisterVeritis
11-18-2017, 03:48 PM
Thing is, common, Trump ran as populist for the working man against a candidate in the top 0.1% who'd been bought and paid for by corporate America, and the Dems nominated here over their own populist working man candidate.
Who, in your opinion, was a populist working man candidate on the Democrat side?

Do you mean the socialist?

Chris
11-18-2017, 03:56 PM
Who, in your opinion, was a populist working man candidate on the Democrat side?

Do you mean the socialist?

Yes, Bernie. Both he and Trump promised protectionist measures against free trade to save workingmen's jobs in America.

MisterVeritis
11-18-2017, 04:04 PM
Yes, Bernie. Both he and Trump promised protectionist measures against free trade to save workingmen's jobs in America.
I thought you meant the Socialist. Socialism never saves the people. It always pretends it will. The people never learn.

Chris
11-18-2017, 05:10 PM
I thought you meant the Socialist. Socialism never saves the people. It always pretends it will. The people never learn.

I didn't argue Bernie would save anyone, just that that's how he ran, what he promised. Ditto Trump. The government's not going to save anyone, except themselves and rent-seeking corporations through corruption.

Cthulhu
11-18-2017, 07:08 PM
They're great on fiscal matters, they pretty much put the "Lib" in Libertarian on everything else.They are also not too keen on controlling every aspect of our lives.

Surely even you could get behind that.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Chris
11-18-2017, 07:27 PM
They're great on fiscal matters, they pretty much put the "Lib" in Libertarian on everything else.

Think noninterventionist in all matters, foreign, domestic, individual.

MisterVeritis
11-18-2017, 10:16 PM
I didn't argue Bernie would save anyone, just that that's how he ran, what he promised. Ditto Trump. The government's not going to save anyone, except themselves and rent-seeking corporations through corruption.
The difference is that President Trump is doing what he said he would do. Socialists seldom (never) do what they promise. A Socialist lies the same way McCain lied to the voters in order to get elected.

Chris
11-19-2017, 09:48 AM
The difference is that President Trump is doing what he said he would do. Socialists seldom (never) do what they promise. A Socialist lies the same way McCain lied to the voters in order to get elected.

Trump has Congress defying him. He's accomplishing little of what he promised. Obamacare still stands. The wall still does not. Tax cuts are talk.