Historians’ reaction to the 1619 Project

[Mister D]

While I strongly disagree with socialism as a concept, I do have to admit that one thing a lot of socialists get right is their distaste for identity politics.

A lot of socialists despise identity politics, because they see it as a distraction from things like class conflict. To them, class is the only difference that matters. In a way, I agree. Most of the conflict in our society is between globalists and nationalists, but this is obscured by the identity politics of woke capitalism. Identity politics ultimately serve the interests of elites by keeping the working class divided.

Socialists abandoned the native working classes decades ago. Even the "socialists" here spend far more time championing sexual deviance, open borders and racial resentment than they do class interests. I get the impression you're saying this development was somehow independent of socialists and their intentions.

[Chris]

While I strongly disagree with socialism as a concept, I do have to admit that one thing a lot of socialists get right is their distaste for identity politics.

A lot of socialists despise identity politics, because they see it as a distraction from things like class conflict. To them, class is the only difference that matters. In a way, I agree. Most of the conflict in our society is between globalists and nationalists, but this is obscured by the identity politics of woke capitalism. Identity politics ultimately serve the interests of elites by keeping the working class divided.

I'd agree, identity politics is a post-modern distraction from Marxian class conflict.

[Chris]

Socialists abandoned the native working classes decades ago. Even the "socialists" here spend far more time championing sexual deviance, open borders and racial resentment than they do class interests. I get the impression you're saying this development was somehow independent of socialists and their intentions.

There is that division. I see WSWS, who is reporting this, as an old purist holdout against the more modern liberal socialism, which is a post-modern extension of older Marxian ideas.

[Mister D]

There is that division. I see WSWS, who is reporting this, as an old purist holdout against the more modern liberal socialism, which is a post-modern extension of older Marxian ideas.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure socialists of the old school still exist but class conflict simply doesn't define the left the way it used to. Identity politics does.

[Chris]

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure socialists of the old school still exist but class conflict simply doesn't define the left the way it used to. Identity politics does.

Agree. The old socialists are now the odd man out, irrelevant if not disagreeable now to the left.

[Rationalist]

Socialists abandoned the native working classes decades ago. Even the "socialists" here spend far more time championing sexual deviance, open borders and racial resentment than they do class interests. I get the impression you're saying this development was somehow independent of socialists and their intentions.

I think what happened is that the younger wave of socialists lost track of what open borders do to labor markets.

[Mister D]

I think what happened is that the younger wave of socialists lost track of what open borders do to labor markets.

Or stopped caring because the working classes were materially better off under capitalism than anything the socialists could ever offer. In the end, I think it ultimately came down to a detente or compromise between welfare and the market: the market is sacrosanct as long as the welfare state is funded.

[Mister D]

Agree. The old socialists are now the odd man out, irrelevant if not disagreeable now to the left.

They're also far more interesting.

[Chris]

They're also far more interesting.

Truly.

[Rationalist]

They're also far more interesting.

I can at least respect the old guard for being more consistent. The SJW socialists don't even seem to grasp the basics of economics.