Mass Immigration: Net Drain on Social Security

[MisterVeritis]

I agree--partially, anyway.

Both Social Security and Medicare are a step in the direction of socialism--although the fact that recipients do pay into these programs makes them a bit different from pure socialism.

In any case, it is a moot point; for the political will would never be there, since seniors are an enormous voting bloc; and most would vote against any politician who tried to take away their two favorite programs.

It is all in the messaging. No retiree would lose anything. But the young would all grow up to be millionaires.

[MisterVeritis]

They certainly owe that and what companies put in for the individuals as well.

I went through all the calculations and I would have to live to be about 105 years old to collect back just what was contributed in my name at simple average interest rate over my life time.

In other words , if they simply allowed Americans to put their 12.4% of their pay in a CD only account or some guaranteed no risk account then we would all be better off.

The only reason for not telling the government to piss off and let us invest it would be that most Americans would screw it up and then tell the rest of us that we have to support them anyways because they lost everything on some triple your money in 3 weeks type investment. No matter what the media tells people, Americans are not going to let our elderly rot away even when they earned it.

You behave as if you have an ownership stake in the taxes you paid. You don't.

[carolina73]

We paid a tax, nothing more.

We should end Social Security and Medicaid as fast as we can. We can continue to pay retirees and those near retirement out of the general fund until the economy collapses. We should stop stealing from the young. Instead, make it mandatory for every worker to invest some percentage of their pay every month.

You are going to pay for them no matter what. Teh US will never just tell teh foolish that spend more than they have that they cannot have food, water, medicine...
Only Europeans think that happens in the USA because CNN is their news source on the USA.

[Newpublius]

We need to end social security and Medicare.

Of course that is not going to happen. The best we could hope for is to put the Norwegians in charge of a sovereign wealth fund.

If I said to you, "Listen, I have a great deal for you. You are going to give me 15% of your income up to the Social Security ceiling and I'm going to invest it EXCLUSIVELY in government bonds issued by the world's largest debtor at historically low interest rates."

I'd surely be arrested.

[carolina73]

You behave as if you have an ownership stake in the taxes you paid. You don't.

Don't forget all the lies they sold the program under to make them "not socialism".
It is insurance not a tax
It goes in a separate fund
It is based on how much you put in (slightly true)
The money cannot be touched

And the grandaddy of all lies was that it will never be more than 3% of your income.


We all know it is senior welfare and nothing else. The only reason for not calling them out on it is that they would then take away the options, caps for contributions and the income related payout. Telling them that you know the truth gives them the opening to alter it further for redistribution.

[pjohns]

We should stop stealing from the young. Instead, make it mandatory for every worker to invest some percentage of their pay every month.

My heart agrees with you--but my head does not.

To make such investments "mandatory"--although it would surely lead to a good result--seems rather authoritarian to me.

[pjohns]

It is all in the messaging. No retiree would lose anything. But the young would all grow up to be millionaires.

Just to clarify where I am coming from: I retired in 2005 (so I am certainly a "retiree"); but I do not live (even in part) off my Social Security check. (It is direct-deposited into my savings account.)

But I am not quite sure just what sort of "messaging" you would favor.

[MisterVeritis]

Don't forget all the lies they sold the program under to make them "not socialism".
It is insurance not a tax
It goes in a separate fund
It is based on how much you put in (slightly true)
The money cannot be touched

And the granddaddy of all lies was that it will never be more than 3% of your income.
We all know it is senior welfare and nothing else. The only reason for not calling them out on it is that they would then take away the options, caps for contributions and the income related payout. Telling them that you know the truth gives them the opening to alter it further for redistribution.

The solution is to end both programs. Pay those of us who had no choice out of the general fund. Stop making victims.

[MisterVeritis]

My heart agrees with you--but my head does not.

To make such investments "mandatory"--although it would surely lead to a good result--seems rather authoritarian to me.

Cool. Give everyone an option. They can pay it as a tax or they can invest it with an ownership stake.

[MisterVeritis]

But I am not quite sure just what sort of "messaging" you would favor.

This: No retiree would lose anything. But the young would all grow up to be millionaires.

:-)