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Thread: Western Wildfires Are Due to Arson and Stupidity, Not Climate Change

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    Every year irresponsible people are responsible for accidentally starting forest fires - remember the Smoky the Bear PSAs? There is nothing unusual about that from a historical perspective. There is also a statistical number of fire bugs who start fires annually. Again, not a new phenomenon. There are far more fires that have been precipitated by lightning strikes than by any human activity.

    Two things are driving the intensity and numbers of fires on the west coast this year:

    1) Extended dry hot weather and high winds
    2) High accumulations of tinder dry biomass in the forests

    Whether climate change or weather cycles are to blame for #1 is an argument for the scientific community. Personally, I think it's a bit of both.

    The cause of the overabundance of biomass on the forest floor is indisputable. It's not being removed. Unless it's removed, there will be more large conflagrations whenever sustained heat and dryness creates ideal fire conditions. Either we undertake controlled burns in the spring, when there is more precipitation and the fires can be contained and also thin out the forest stands OR we let nature take its course and lose millions of acres of forest. There is no in between solution.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Uh, environmental stewardship of federal land belonged to Trump the minute he took the oath.
    So, how is he supposed to cleanup over a hundred years of over growth and mismanagement?
    We've thrown all of this money at CA, and they spent it elsewhere. If he had clamped down, you would be screaming that he is a tyrant/dictator. You're a hypocrite.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
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    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    Yes I read it. There are reports of arson... Did you read my link? The FBI and local authorities investigate those reports (as per your article) and determine if there is a criminal element.

    To date... No such arson has been substantiated nor have arson charges been levied on anyone for starting the major fires in the West. At least not that I know of...

    It's a false narrative.
    The FBI never stated there were ZERO arson arrests either, YOUR own FBI statement was about EXTREMISTS Not being involved in the setting of fires, they never said there were no arson going on, just no extremist groups being involved.



    You didn't read very well to what the FBI actually stated.

    Here a few 100% confirmed arrests for starting wildfires in Oregon and Washington, there are No FBI denials against these arrests by law enforcement officials.:


    The Oregonian

    Man arrested, charged with arson in connection with southern Oregon fire

    Updated Sep 11, 2020; Posted Sep 11, 2020

    Excerpt:

    A Southern Oregon man is accused of arson in connection with a fire that has caused major damage to several towns in Jackson County.Michael Jarrod Bakkela, 41, has arrested on two counts of arson, 15 counts of criminal mischief and 14 counts of reckless endangerment.

    The fire Bakkela set is considered to be one of two origins of the Almeda fire, said Oregon State Fire Marshal’s office spokesman Rich Tyler. The two fires quickly merged, Tyler said.

    =====

    Then here is another confirmed arrest for arson the FBI didn't dispute.

    Kion News Channel

    Woman accused of intentionally starting fires on Highway 101 arrested

    By Avery Johnson
    September 11, 2020


    Excerpt:

    SALINAS, Calif. (KION)

    UPDATE 9/11/2020 2:20 p.m. The Monterey County District Attorney's Office tells KION that they have no information or evidence suggesting that a woman accused of intentionally starting fires on Highway 101 has any connection to Antifa.

    LINK

    ====
    There is one for state of Washington too
    There are more arrests I can bring up, you going to deny these arrests for arson exists?
    Last edited by Sunsettommy; 09-16-2020 at 09:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Uh, environmental stewardship of federal land belonged to Trump the minute he took the oath.

    Trump has been President for less than 4 years, while the fuel load problem was known for years, the STATE of California has not been doing the job of managing their forest lands, even though Federal land are within the States boundaries, it is the STATE who should be leading the way on forest management since fires and fire suppression territories are not bound by boundaries within the State of California.

    The last few California Governors have done little to nothing about their forest fire problems, they just do what YOU do, blame it on someone else or on climate change, which is absurd since the state climate has long been hot and dry with long observed onshore winds that fans them.
    Last edited by Sunsettommy; 09-16-2020 at 09:45 PM.
    "Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom and then lost it have never known it again." Ronald Reagan

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    We are not really talking about Federal land anyways. The significant costs and loss of life are on private land and state land of which both are regulated by the state. The Federal land is very sparsely inhabited by campers and forestry personnel or used for military bases. There is no real financial loss in a Federal Forest. There you can allow nature to take its course. Clearing and lumbering of the Federal land should be allowed with replanting. That is what the Sierra Club and environmentalists keep blocking through the courts and that was good stewardship.

    Only some fires are costly. The focus should be on the large fires near significant populations. Before modern firefighting these fires were 10 times larger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    We are not really talking about Federal land anyways. The significant costs and loss of life are on private land and state land of which both are regulated by the state. The Federal land is very sparsely inhabited by campers and forestry personnel or used for military bases. There is no real financial loss in a Federal Forest. There you can allow nature to take its course. Clearing and lumbering of the Federal land should be allowed with replanting. That is what the Sierra Club and environmentalists keep blocking through the courts and that was good stewardship.

    Only some fires are costly. The focus should be on the large fires near significant populations. Before modern firefighting these fires were 10 times larger.
    They need a more robust building code for new home construction. You can build a new house that consists of 95% metal and hardie board siding with metal roofing.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Uh, environmental stewardship of federal land belonged to Trump the minute he took the oath.
    Hobbled by the laws Clinton passed 30 years ago.

    BTW, global fires are down 25%.
    When Donald Trump said to protest “peacefully”, he meant violence.

    When he told protesters to “go home”, he meant stay for an insurrection.

    And when he told Brad Raffensperger to implement “whatever the correct legal remedy is”, he meant fraud.

    War is peace.

    Freedom is slavery.

    Ignorance is strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunsettommy View Post
    The FBI never stated there were ZERO arson arrests either, YOUR own FBI statement was about EXTREMISTS Not being involved in the setting of fires, they never said there were no arson going on, just no extremist groups being involved.



    You didn't read very well to what the FBI actually stated.

    Here a few 100% confirmed arrests for starting wildfires in Oregon and Washington, there are No FBI denials against these arrests by law enforcement officials.:


    The Oregonian

    Man arrested, charged with arson in connection with southern Oregon fire

    Updated Sep 11, 2020; Posted Sep 11, 2020

    Excerpt:

    A Southern Oregon man is accused of arson in connection with a fire that has caused major damage to several towns in Jackson County.Michael Jarrod Bakkela, 41, has arrested on two counts of arson, 15 counts of criminal mischief and 14 counts of reckless endangerment.

    The fire Bakkela set is considered to be one of two origins of the Almeda fire, said Oregon State Fire Marshal’s office spokesman Rich Tyler. The two fires quickly merged, Tyler said.

    =====

    Then here is another confirmed arrest for arson the FBI didn't dispute.

    Kion News Channel

    Woman accused of intentionally starting fires on Highway 101 arrested

    By Avery Johnson
    September 11, 2020


    Excerpt:

    SALINAS, Calif. (KION)

    UPDATE 9/11/2020 2:20 p.m. The Monterey County District Attorney's Office tells KION that they have no information or evidence suggesting that a woman accused of intentionally starting fires on Highway 101 has any connection to Antifa.

    LINK

    ====
    There is one for state of Washington too
    There are more arrests I can bring up, you going to deny these arrests for arson exists?
    Yeah I was focused on the false narrative of arson for political motives. You were too but you can’t prove it so you’ll point to arson from homeless people and call them Democrats Then, oddly, like your article, point to bad land management in California.

    Meanwhile we have fires burning in just about every Western State including the red ones.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    Yeah I was focused on the false narrative of arson for political motives. You were too but you can’t prove it so you’ll point to arson from homeless people and call them Democrats Then, oddly, like your article, point to bad land management in California.

    Meanwhile we have fires burning in just about every Western State including the red ones.
    I guess it's too damned bad for those Blue states...they should have turned Red to prevent them from burning to the ground.
    Much like there are no COVID cases coming out from the riots
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    I guess it's too damned bad for those Blue states...they should have turned Red to prevent them from burning to the ground.
    Much like there are no COVID cases coming out from the riots
    But Texas, Utah, Idaho are all burning... Did they catch the fire from the Blue States? Did the lack of forest management from California somehow leak into Arizona and made it's way to Texas?
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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