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Thread: Western Wildfires Are Due to Arson and Stupidity, Not Climate Change

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunsettommy View Post
    True they have to be guilty to be jailed, but you really moved the goalpost here, because the topic is about fires being set by people, and arrests are made by law enforcement. Some of the arrested people have been seen by eyewitnesses, other fires that have been set are obvious arson, but the accused may not have been seen setting them.

    Arson evidence is quite widespread, but not always know who set them, a distinction you need to keep in mind.

    There have been far more arrests than what the media will tell you, but here from Law Enforcement Today, there have been far more than 3-4 arson arrests:

    Arson arrests made across the west coast as fires rage on





    Excerpt:

    Here’s what we do know so far:
    A number of wildfires in Washington, Oregon, and California are now being considered arson, and several arsonists are already in jail – while there are more on the run, we’re told.


    On Wednesday, September 10, 2020, Troopers in Puyallup, Washington said they arrested a 36-year-old Puyallup man caught setting a fire in the brush. This was along State Route 167 in Puyallup in the median of SR 167 at Meridian.


    Another arson suspect was arrested in Spokane after allegedly starting multiple fires.

    Christine Comello,36, was arrested after allegedly starting multiple fires in Spokane on Monday. Officer Mohondro arrived on the scene where he witnessed some grass and a palette outside of a commercial business on fire. There was reasonable evidence the fire was started by a human and not lightning or telephone poles.

    Mohondro spotted another fire a few blocks away. This was next to an old oil drum under a tree. This could cause the fire to explode into something much larger. The Spokane Fire Department responded and extinguished the fire.

    More units arrived in the area and detained Comello. She originally lied about her name, but it was discovered she had a warrant for her arrest.

    Witnesses identified her as the arsonist. As a result she was booked for 2nd degree arson, 1st degree arson and burglary.

    In Eugene, Oregan, Elias Newton Pendergrass, 44, was arrested on Tuesday. He was suspected of arson in a wildfire that that burned almost 400 acres, and caused evacuations west of Eugene. Pendergrass, a Mapleton resident, is accused of first-degree arson.

    He allegedly started the fire in Sweet Creek Milepost 2, which covers 382 acres near Mapleton. He’s being held in the Lane County Jail.

    LINK
    It's my understanding that the article in the OP specified two particular fires, not additional ones so if you are quoting those then that's a different story and a different thread. All I'm talking about are the two in the original OP.
    God Bless America, God Bless our Military and God Bless the Police who defended the country against the insurgents on January 6, 2021

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    Did you bother to read the headline you posted? The fires were started accidentally and not by arson, which the headliner claimed they were.
    Ha ha,

    The headline: Western Wildfires Are Due to Arson and Stupidity, Not Climate Change


    In the article you didn't read: ""I am upset that people are stupid," said Forest Falls resident Linda Corcoran, who had to evacuate her home with her husband. "People don't possess common sense and so yes, I am angry, but not surprised."

    red boldings mine


    Here is more about that stupidity:
    "Cal Fire reminds the public that with the dry conditions and critical fire weather, it doesn't take much to start a wildfire", the agency said in a press release. "Those responsible for starting fires due to negligence or illegal activity can be held financially and criminally responsible."


    It isn't being considered an accident by the law enforcement.



    and, this: "
    "Potential laws that they may have broken are some public resource codes, which is igniting a land that's not owned by you," Milloy added. "If you cause a fire on that land, that's a misdemeanor in the state of California."

    There could also be misdemeanor or felony charges if the fire goes onto forest land, which it has, or if it destroys structures or other property."


    Looks bad for the idiots.......


    The headline said STUPDITY in it.


    Here is what the result of THAT fire did to the region because of that illegal activity.


    El Dorado Fire Caused by Gender Reveal Party Reaches Over 18,000 Acres


    As of September 17, the fire was 63 percent contained and had burned over 18,000 acres.
    LINK
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    It's my understanding that the article in the OP specified two particular fires, not additional ones so if you are quoting those then that's a different story and a different thread. All I'm talking about are the two in the original OP.
    Here is the headline again:

    Western Wildfires Are Due to Arson and Stupidity, Not Climate Change


    The article is covering the entire west region, therefore those other arrests are still part of the topic, since they are people also accused of arson.
    "Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom and then lost it have never known it again." Ronald Reagan

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunsettommy View Post
    Here is the headline again:

    Western Wildfires Are Due to Arson and Stupidity, Not Climate Change


    The article is covering the entire west region, therefore those other arrests are still part of the topic, since they are people also accused of arson.
    What about the Arson part?? I mentioned in my original that the first one was not arson but accidental. So tell me about the arson part?
    God Bless America, God Bless our Military and God Bless the Police who defended the country against the insurgents on January 6, 2021

    Think 3rd party for 2024 folks. Clean up America.

    Once I tell you that we agree to disagree there will be no more discussion between us in the thread so please don't waste your time continuing to argue your points because I will not respond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunsettommy View Post
    No one denies that climate can change, but that is NOT the cause of these summer fires, it is Weather events that set the stage for fires, along with more homes in forest areas, plus an increased dry fuel load....
    Ummm.....
    It is always a sign that you didn't read the articles, since what you did was use Google scholar, then post a bunch links modeling papers. You never noticed how many of them are just the usual modeling scenarios, climate realists have come to expect from ignorant warmist/alarmists.

    I once ran the 10th largest climate forum on the internet, until it was maliciously shut down 3 years ago by the NEW owner of the server host, who lied to my face, claiming they have no such website in their records.


    I am full up to the eyeballs with reading climate modeling scenario baloney. It is pseudoscience since they are NOT testable and doesn't follow the basic research paradigm of The Scientific Method.
    The vast majority of the scientific community disagrees with you...

    I live in Washington state, my area is shrouded by thick smoke, no visibility beyond 500 feet, I think I am aware of it.

    Did you bother to read those papers? Many of them have a short database to draw from, and are unverified modeling constructs something most warmist/alarmists ignores all the time. I seen this so many times now they have become so predictable...., it is called junk science.


    Here is one from NASA showing wildfires are actually on the DECLINE in in last two Decades. From Watts Up With That?



    Irrefutable NASA data: global fires down by 25 percent


    Anthony Watts / 2 days ago


    Excerpt:

    Using satellite technology, NASA determined that between 2003 and 2019, global fires have dropped by roughly 25 percent. This makes the “climate change is worsening wildfires” argument completely moot.



    From NASA Earth Observatory
    The control of fire is a goal that may well be as old as humanity, but the systematic monitoring of fire on a global scale is a much newer capability.

    In the 1910s, the U.S. Forest Service began building fire lookout towers on mountain peaks in order to detect distant fires. A few decades later, fire-spotting airplanes flew onto the scene. Then in the early 1980s, satellites began to map fires over large areas from the vantage point of space.

    Over time, researchers have built a rich and textured record of Earth’s fire activity and are now able to analyze decadal trends. “The pace of discovery has increased dramatically during the satellite era,” said James Randerson, a scientist at the University of California, Irvine. “Having high-quality, daily observations of fires available on a global scale has been critical.”

    The animation above shows the locations of actively burning fires on a monthly basis for nearly two decades. The maps are based on observations from the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) on NASA’s Terra satellite. The colors are based on a count of the number (not size) of fires observed within a 1,000-square-kilometer area. White pixels show the high end of the count—as many as 30 fires in a 1,000-square-kilometer area per day. Orange pixels show as many as 10 fires, while red areas show as few as 1 fire per day.


    LINK
    From the horse's mouth:


    Satellite Data Record Shows Climate Change's Impact on Fires

    Hot and dry. These are the watchwords for large fires. While every fire needs a spark to ignite and fuel to burn, the hot and dry conditions in the atmosphere determine the likelihood of a fire starting, its intensity and the speed at which it spreads. Over the past several decades, as the world has increasingly warmed, so has its potential to burn.

    Since 1880, the world has warmed by 1.9 degrees Fahrenheit (1.09 degrees Celsius), with the five warmest years on record occurring in the last five years. Since the 1980s, the wildfire season has lengthened across a quarter of the world's vegetated surface, and in some places like California, fire has become nearly a year-round risk. The year 2018 was California's worst wildfire season on record, on the heels of a devasting 2017 fire season. In 2019, wildfires have already burned 2.5 million acres in Alaska in an extreme fire season driven by high temperatures, which have also led to massive fires in Siberia.

    snip

    "Where warming and drying climate has increased the risk of fires, we’ve seen an increase in burning."
    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2912/s...pact-on-fires/

    Let me guess.... Junk science?
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

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    Wildfires can be fixed with forest management as a big help
    Armed with appetites and attitudes, brush-clearing goats will mow down weeds and shrubs from even the steepest of Southern California's hillsides. Perfectly adapted to a life of constant browsing, these ruminants are being deployed as a shield against the region's rampant wildfires. We join Ian Newsam, owner of Brush Goats 4 Hire, and his "elite" herd of goats as they reduce the invasive plants and fuel that contributes to the fires.

    Kurt Cobain was murdered

    Trump 2020-2025

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    Thats the solution and cheap $

    Edmonton wanted to tackle a weed problem in its parks without more herbicides, so it brought in some experienced weed whackers — a herd of goats.
    Kurt Cobain was murdered

    Trump 2020-2025

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    Ummm.....


    The vast majority of the scientific community disagrees with you...



    From the horse's mouth:




    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2912/s...pact-on-fires/

    Let me guess.... Junk science?
    Ummm you ignored this,



    Excerpt:

    Using satellite technology, NASA determined that between 2003 and 2019, global fires have dropped by roughly 25 percent. This makes the “climate change is worsening wildfires” argument completely moot.



    ==============

    The fires in Oregon and Washington fires were caused arson and by a weather event, the fires in California were a combination of weather, arson and PGE downed lines.

    It has dropped 25% in the last 16 years


    I have posted this one already, POST 5:


    Watts Up With That?

    Did Global Warming Play A Significant Role in the Recent Northwest Wildfires?


    Charles Rotter / 1 day ago September 22, 2020

    Reposted from the Cliff Mass Weather Blog

    Monday, September 21, 2020



    A number of groups and individuals are claiming that the recent major wildfires in the Pacific Northwest are predominantly or significantly the result of climate change produced by increasing greenhouse gases.


    In fact, many have called these conflagrations “climate fires.” Did global warming (a.k.a. climate change) have a significant impact on the Northwest wildfires of the past few weeks?


    LINK


    This is an effective scholarly approach to the headline question, a well written refutation against the climate change caused the fires dogma.

    He makes clear that Climate Change didn't cause these fires, and the long hanging smoke shroud over the region, he used actual meteorological data and past weather history to show WHY this is a result of an unusual weather event.


    =====

    You ignored it, so did Skepticalmike, imagine that!

    =====

    Now here is a new blog post by Dr. Mass you WILL try hard to ignore:


    Watts Up With That?

    Grass Fires, Not Forest Fires Dominated Washington State in 2020: What Does That Imply Regarding Global Warming?

    Reposted from the Cliff Mass Weather Blog
    Tuesday, October 6, 2020


    The wildfire season has now ended in Washington State, with no major fires currently burning and a very wet weather system approaching for the weekend.
    Although the first half of the fire season had below normal acreage burned, we ended up with more fires and more burned acreage than normal (see WA DNR statistics below).

    Global warming? Or is something else going on?


    Some politicians and media outlets are claiming that global warming was the explanation, but as we shall see, something else was going on: COVID-inspired trash burning and the extraordinary dominance of grass fires over forest fires.

    Let’s begin by looking at a map of this summer’s wildfires over the state (see below). There were some big fire areas in eastern Washington. But look carefully and you will notice something important: nearly all the acreage burned was not in terrain or in forests, but in the grasslands and scrub of the eastern Washington lowlands.

    LINK

    ========


    Your statement is completely worthless, since it doesn't mean jack!


    The vast majority of the scientific community disagrees with you...

    Most of them are already wrong, but you will never understand that....


    Consensus arguments has been wrong many times over the decades, the fact that YOU in year 2020 still remain ignorant of this fact, makes you lose credibility.
    Last edited by Sunsettommy; 10-08-2020 at 12:34 AM.
    "Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom and then lost it have never known it again." Ronald Reagan

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    Another Thoughtful, rational, factual entry:


    Why Worse Wildfires - part 1





    There are several theories trying to explain the recent uptick in wildfires throughout the western USA. Some scientists blame increased human ignitions. Others suggest accumulating surface fuels due to a century of fire suppression. Others argue landscape changes and invasive grasses have amplified the amount of easily ignited vegetation, while still others blame climate change. What’s the Sage Grouse connection? Like human communities, the Sage Grouse’s habitat is being threatened by fast spreading wildfires, and that increase in bigger wildfires in sagebrush country is due to invading annual grasses, like cheatgrass.


    Historically hot dry sagebrush habitat rarely burned (just once every 60-100 years) because slow growing, patchy sagebrush only provides scant surface fuels incapable of supporting large and frequent fires. But the invasion of introduced annual grasses, like cheatgrass, has changed all that. As one wildlife researcher lamented, “The color of Nevada has changed from a sagebrush silver gray to a cheatgrass tawny brown since the 1990s”. Likewise, in the 1800s California’s hills were covered with perennial grasses that stayed green during the summer. Now California’s hills are golden brown as highly flammable annual grasses have taken over.



    LINK
    "Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom and then lost it have never known it again." Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunsettommy View Post
    Ummm you ignored this,



    Excerpt:

    Using satellite technology, NASA determined that between 2003 and 2019, global fires have dropped by roughly 25 percent. This makes the “climate change is worsening wildfires” argument completely moot.



    ==============

    The fires in Oregon and Washington fires were caused arson and by a weather event, the fires in California were a combination of weather, arson and PGE downed lines.

    It has dropped 25% in the last 16 years


    I have posted this one already, POST 5:


    Watts Up With That?

    Did Global Warming Play A Significant Role in the Recent Northwest Wildfires?


    Charles Rotter / 1 day ago September 22, 2020

    Reposted from the Cliff Mass Weather Blog

    Monday, September 21, 2020



    A number of groups and individuals are claiming that the recent major wildfires in the Pacific Northwest are predominantly or significantly the result of climate change produced by increasing greenhouse gases.


    In fact, many have called these conflagrations “climate fires.” Did global warming (a.k.a. climate change) have a significant impact on the Northwest wildfires of the past few weeks?


    LINK


    This is an effective scholarly approach to the headline question, a well written refutation against the climate change caused the fires dogma.

    He makes clear that Climate Change didn't cause these fires, and the long hanging smoke shroud over the region, he used actual meteorological data and past weather history to show WHY this is a result of an unusual weather event.


    =====

    You ignored it, so did Skepticalmike, imagine that!

    =====

    Now here is a new blog post by Dr. Mass you WILL try hard to ignore:


    Watts Up With That?

    Grass Fires, Not Forest Fires Dominated Washington State in 2020: What Does That Imply Regarding Global Warming?

    Reposted from the Cliff Mass Weather Blog
    Tuesday, October 6, 2020


    The wildfire season has now ended in Washington State, with no major fires currently burning and a very wet weather system approaching for the weekend.
    Although the first half of the fire season had below normal acreage burned, we ended up with more fires and more burned acreage than normal (see WA DNR statistics below).

    Global warming? Or is something else going on?


    Some politicians and media outlets are claiming that global warming was the explanation, but as we shall see, something else was going on: COVID-inspired trash burning and the extraordinary dominance of grass fires over forest fires.

    Let’s begin by looking at a map of this summer’s wildfires over the state (see below). There were some big fire areas in eastern Washington. But look carefully and you will notice something important: nearly all the acreage burned was not in terrain or in forests, but in the grasslands and scrub of the eastern Washington lowlands.

    LINK

    ========


    Your statement is completely worthless, since it doesn't mean jack!





    Most of them are already wrong, but you will never understand that....


    Consensus arguments has been wrong many times over the decades, the fact that YOU in year 2020 still remain ignorant of this fact, makes you lose credibility.
    I typically ignore hack editorials.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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