Hunting par force de chiens

[TheOneOnly2]

The most popular form of hunting where I am from is by force of dogs. When I was about 12/13 years old all of my friends had dogs and we would often hunt kangaroos in the afternoons after school or on weekends. I didnt realize it at the time but the way we hunted was very much like the way people hunted in medieval times - par force.

English and French accounts agree on the general makeup of a hunt—they were well-planned so that everyone knew his role before going out. The hunt par force required each participant to have a specific role. If someone slipped in his role, not only could he easily get lost, but it put the rest of the group in danger by exposure. Many nobles hunted par force, for a multitude of reasons, but above all because it was considered the purest and noblest form of hunting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_hunting

The king of all the wild animals was the deer, and more precisely the hart, which is an adult male of the red deer. The hart was classified by the number of tines, or points, on its antlers. An animal should have at least ten tines to be considered worthy of hunting; this was referred to as a "hart of ten."^[3] Deer could be hunted in two different ways: par force ("by strength" and thereunder par force de chiens ("by force of dogs" )), and bow and stable.
Hunting par force was considered the noblest form of hunting. In this process the game was run down and exhausted by the dogs before the kill was made.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_hunting

Bayeux_hawking.jpg

We do have some deers in Australia here and there but there arent any within walking distance of where I grew up but a kangaroo is actually quite similar to a deer if you look at them - kangaroos are almost like a deer that decided to jump rather than run. My friends and I hunted the Eastern Grey kangaroo which are not as large as the Red Kangaroo but they can get pretty big and you often come across an Eastern Grey buck that stands as tall as a man and if you have ever seen them fight each other you know that they have a powerful kick that could kill you. So a kangaroo is certainly worthy of hunting par force.

So where I grew up was a small town and behind the town is bushland that is actually Crown Land which is funny because that was always where we assembled to begin the hunt. Its funny because the idea of Crown Land here in Australia basically comes from the Normans that invaded England and then took all the hunting land for themselves and forbid the peasant Saxons from hunting on it. All these friends I hunted with lived in town so we were basically peasants hunting on land owned by the Crown which is still illegal. Ha. Anyway we would assemble on this Crown Land which everyone calls The Common which is also funny.

I am actually a Norman myself but even though these guys I hunted with were peasants they were a pretty exclusive group and it was a great honour to be invited to join the hunt. I didnt own a dog myself but I was always welcome to join the hunt. My friends mostly used Australian staghounds which was originally a greyhound and Scottish deerhound hybrid - these dogs are ideal for hunting in the Australian conditions but where I live guys take great pride in creating their own hybrids and will generally breed a staghound with a larger dog hoping to retain the speed but increase the power. So most of my friends had staghound hybrids like these that were staghound cross mastiff or whatever.

So after assembling at the Crown Land or The Common we would set out on foot for what would be the moving. We had no relays obviously - we would just walk through the bushland with the dogs on leads and we were hunting mostly by sight but the dogs would often pick up the scent of kangaroos and we would follow them. So you had to be quiet because the idea is to sneak up on a kangaroo or a group of them without them knowing you are there so they dont have too much of a head start on the dogs - it would happen quite a bit that a kangaroo we let the dogs off to chase down would escape because the dogs werent close enough to run it down. So when you did sight some kangaroos you sneak up as close as you can without getting spotted and you would split up a little so the dogs are coming from different angles. So when you are all in position you let the dogs off their leads and the chase begins.

So since we didnt have horses we had to sprint as fast as we could behind the dogs - the motivation was that you wanted to be as close to the dogs as possible when they had exhausted the kangaroo and it turned to defend itself - or was 'at bay'. This was the fun part - the baying. So when the kangaroo is at bay it will lean back on its tail and kick at the dogs - and its common for a dog to get injured and possible for them to be killed. But yeah this is the part you want to witness as the hunter. So my friends and I would sprint up behind and then crowd around to watch the fight. If you got a big buck then its likely it will put up a decent fight so the baying can last quite a while at times. Every now and then the buck will actually get the better of the dogs and they will be unable to kill it so you have to intervene. We wouldnt take knives because it would be unsafe to get within stabbing distance of a kangaroo at bay - especially a large buck standing as tall as a man - so what we would do if need be is pick up a goodly sized stick and hit the kangaroo in the head with it. If kangaroos have a weak spot it is their heads - they have pretty soft skulls. One time I saw a guy that couldnt find a stick and had to intervene so his dog didnt get killed run up and punch a big kangaroo in the head and he killed it. With one punch. Another time we had chased a big kangaroo into a dam - they often head for a dam if one is around because a kangaroo has a great advantage over the dogs when its in water and will push the dogs under and drown them - so this big kangaroo is in the dam and the dogs have gone in to get it but the roo keeps dunking them - and they cant be called off at this stage so we are all throwing rocks at the roo - and everyone is missing. I pick up a rock the size of a brick and I throw it and it hits the kangaroo right in the head and its head explodes - and as it sinks leaving a pool of red where it was my friends all let out a scream of - AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of my friends had a rottweiler and it was big and slow so no good for the chase but when it finally caught up it was a real killer when a kangaroo was at bay. His name was Brutus. Every now and then we would come out of The Common to some farmland that was owned by this guy Greenie - and he had sheep in these paddocks - and since Brutus had a taste for blood from kangaroo hunting it wanted to kill any animal it saw so sometimes we chase a kangaroo into one of Greenies paddocks and they head for this mountain he had - so the dogs are chasing but Brutus sees the sheep and splits off and ends up killing a sheep instead of the kangaroo. It used to get out of my friends yard and kill cats - once I remember it got into a guys chicken coop and killed all his chickens - and eventually my friend had to move the dog because the police were going to shoot it. So he moved it to another town to stay with his sister but it ended up biting a poodles head off and after that the police did shoot it. RIP Brutus.

But yeah - often you go out for a few afternoons in a row and dont even see a kangaroo - or you chase one but it gets away. So when you do get one there is great excitement and a collective bloodlust comes over the hunting party. This bloodlust is impossible to describe and I have never experienced anything like it.

After the kangaroo was dead we didnt bother with any 'unmaking'. We would go from kill to 'curee'. We would let the dogs eat some of the dead kangaroo but we would leave most of it.

So thats how modern hunting by force of dogs goes in modern times. This kind of thing was illegal back then but even more so these days. I often see in the news a story about killing a kangaroo with a dog and going to jail for it - but it is still quite common. Unless someone is stupid enough to video the baying and post it to facebook who is going to know? For the most part guys hunt pigs by force of dog and they will kill the pig with a knife after the dogs have chased it down - Medieval style - but there are still some people hunting kangaroos this way. If you are on a farm or some Crown Land who is going to see you?

I dont hunt anymore but I did enjoy it as a kid. I did some shooting as a kid too which involved some friends and I getting into the back of a ute at night with rifles and driving around a farm 'spotlighting' but I always found that to be boring as hell compared to hunting by force of dogs. And certainly less noble.

Do you guys agree? Hunting by force of dogs is more noble than by bow and stable right? Or guns.



edit - I forgot to mention. When a kangaroo is at bay it will let out a haunting scream.

[Peter1469]

The most popular form of hunting where I am from is by force of dogs. When I was about 12/13 years old all of my friends had dogs and we would often hunt kangaroos in the afternoons after school or on weekends. I didnt realize it at the time but the way we hunted was very much like the way people hunted in medieval times - par force.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_hunting


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_hunting

Attachment 31171

We do have some deers in Australia here and there but there arent any within walking distance of where I grew up but a kangaroo is actually quite similar to a deer if you look at them - kangaroos are almost like a deer that decided to jump rather than run. My friends and I hunted the Eastern Grey kangaroo which are not as large as the Red Kangaroo but they can get pretty big and you often come across an Eastern Grey buck that stands as tall as a man and if you have ever seen them fight each other you know that they have a powerful kick that could kill you. So a kangaroo is certainly worthy of hunting par force.

So where I grew up was a small town and behind the town is bushland that is actually Crown Land which is funny because that was always where we assembled to begin the hunt. Its funny because the idea of Crown Land here in Australia basically comes from the Normans that invaded England and then took all the hunting land for themselves and forbid the peasant Saxons from hunting on it. All these friends I hunted with lived in town so we were basically peasants hunting on land owned by the Crown which is still illegal. Ha. Anyway we would assemble on this Crown Land which everyone calls The Common which is also funny.

I am actually a Norman myself but even though these guys I hunted with were peasants they were a pretty exclusive group and it was a great honour to be invited to join the hunt. I didnt own a dog myself but I was always welcome to join the hunt. My friends mostly used Australian staghounds which was originally a greyhound and Scottish deerhound hybrid - these dogs are ideal for hunting in the Australian conditions but where I live guys take great pride in creating their own hybrids and will generally breed a staghound with a larger dog hoping to retain the speed but increase the power. So most of my friends had staghound hybrids like these that were staghound cross mastiff or whatever.

So after assembling at the Crown Land or The Common we would set out on foot for what would be the moving. We had no relays obviously - we would just walk through the bushland with the dogs on leads and we were hunting mostly by sight but the dogs would often pick up the scent of kangaroos and we would follow them. So you had to be quiet because the idea is to sneak up on a kangaroo or a group of them without them knowing you are there so they dont have too much of a head start on the dogs - it would happen quite a bit that a kangaroo we let the dogs off to chase down would escape because the dogs werent close enough to run it down. So when you did sight some kangaroos you sneak up as close as you can without getting spotted and you would split up a little so the dogs are coming from different angles. So when you are all in position you let the dogs off their leads and the chase begins.

So since we didnt have horses we had to sprint as fast as we could behind the dogs - the motivation was that you wanted to be as close to the dogs as possible when they had exhausted the kangaroo and it turned to defend itself - or was 'at bay'. This was the fun part - the baying. So when the kangaroo is at bay it will lean back on its tail and kick at the dogs - and its common for a dog to get injured and possible for them to be killed. But yeah this is the part you want to witness as the hunter. So my friends and I would sprint up behind and then crowd around to watch the fight. If you got a big buck then its likely it will put up a decent fight so the baying can last quite a while at times. Every now and then the buck will actually get the better of the dogs and they will be unable to kill it so you have to intervene. We wouldnt take knives because it would be unsafe to get within stabbing distance of a kangaroo at bay - especially a large buck standing as tall as a man - so what we would do if need be is pick up a goodly sized stick and hit the kangaroo in the head with it. If kangaroos have a weak spot it is their heads - they have pretty soft skulls. One time I saw a guy that couldnt find a stick and had to intervene so his dog didnt get killed run up and punch a big kangaroo in the head and he killed it. With one punch. Another time we had chased a big kangaroo into a dam - they often head for a dam if one is around because a kangaroo has a great advantage over the dogs when its in water and will push the dogs under and drown them - so this big kangaroo is in the dam and the dogs have gone in to get it but the roo keeps dunking them - and they cant be called off at this stage so we are all throwing rocks at the roo - and everyone is missing. I pick up a rock the size of a brick and I throw it and it hits the kangaroo right in the head and its head explodes - and as it sinks leaving a pool of red where it was my friends all let out a scream of - AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of my friends had a rottweiler and it was big and slow so no good for the chase but when it finally caught up it was a real killer when a kangaroo was at bay. His name was Brutus. Every now and then we would come out of The Common to some farmland that was owned by this guy Greenie - and he had sheep in these paddocks - and since Brutus had a taste for blood from kangaroo hunting it wanted to kill any animal it saw so sometimes we chase a kangaroo into one of Greenies paddocks and they head for this mountain he had - so the dogs are chasing but Brutus sees the sheep and splits off and ends up killing a sheep instead of the kangaroo. It used to get out of my friends yard and kill cats - once I remember it got into a guys chicken coop and killed all his chickens - and eventually my friend had to move the dog because the police were going to shoot it. So he moved it to another town to stay with his sister but it ended up biting a poodles head off and after that the police did shoot it. RIP Brutus.

But yeah - often you go out for a few afternoons in a row and dont even see a kangaroo - or you chase one but it gets away. So when you do get one there is great excitement and a collective bloodlust comes over the hunting party. This bloodlust is impossible to describe and I have never experienced anything like it.

After the kangaroo was dead we didnt bother with any 'unmaking'. We would go from kill to 'curee'. We would let the dogs eat some of the dead kangaroo but we would leave most of it.

So thats how modern hunting by force of dogs goes in modern times. This kind of thing was illegal back then but even more so these days. I often see in the news a story about killing a kangaroo with a dog and going to jail for it - but it is still quite common. Unless someone is stupid enough to video the baying and post it to facebook who is going to know? For the most part guys hunt pigs by force of dog and they will kill the pig with a knife after the dogs have chased it down - Medieval style - but there are still some people hunting kangaroos this way. If you are on a farm or some Crown Land who is going to see you?

I dont hunt anymore but I did enjoy it as a kid. I did some shooting as a kid too which involved some friends and I getting into the back of a ute at night with rifles and driving around a farm 'spotlighting' but I always found that to be boring as hell compared to hunting by force of dogs. And certainly less noble.

Do you guys agree? Hunting by force of dogs is more noble than by bow and stable right? Or guns.



edit - I forgot to mention. When a kangaroo is at bay it will let out a haunting scream.

Hunting for other than food (or responsible wildlife management) is a symptom of a serious character flaw or even mental illness.

[TheOneOnly2]

Hunting for other than food (or responsible wildlife management) is a symptom of a serious character flaw or even mental illness.

And you call me a leftist? You arent a member of PETA are you Peter?

I dont go hunting anymore. I didnt own any of the dogs. I was just an observer. There is no animal blood on my hands. When I killed the kangaroo in the dam I only did it to save the dogs. I am a hero.

And every single person you seem to disagree with you tell them they have mental illness. But you get menopause hot flashes when I say that extreme racism should be considered a mental illness.

But yeah there are a lot of people with mental illness around here then because every second guy has a hunting dog on the back of their ute. Like I said they like to kill pigs mostly. For fun.

[Cletus]

The most popular form of hunting where I am from is by force of dogs. When I was about 12/13 years old all of my friends had dogs and we would often hunt kangaroos in the afternoons after school or on weekends. I didnt realize it at the time but the way we hunted was very much like the way people hunted in medieval times - par force.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_hunting


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_hunting

Attachment 31171

We do have some deers in Australia here and there but there arent any within walking distance of where I grew up but a kangaroo is actually quite similar to a deer if you look at them - kangaroos are almost like a deer that decided to jump rather than run. My friends and I hunted the Eastern Grey kangaroo which are not as large as the Red Kangaroo but they can get pretty big and you often come across an Eastern Grey buck that stands as tall as a man and if you have ever seen them fight each other you know that they have a powerful kick that could kill you. So a kangaroo is certainly worthy of hunting par force.

So where I grew up was a small town and behind the town is bushland that is actually Crown Land which is funny because that was always where we assembled to begin the hunt. Its funny because the idea of Crown Land here in Australia basically comes from the Normans that invaded England and then took all the hunting land for themselves and forbid the peasant Saxons from hunting on it. All these friends I hunted with lived in town so we were basically peasants hunting on land owned by the Crown which is still illegal. Ha. Anyway we would assemble on this Crown Land which everyone calls The Common which is also funny.

I am actually a Norman myself but even though these guys I hunted with were peasants they were a pretty exclusive group and it was a great honour to be invited to join the hunt. I didnt own a dog myself but I was always welcome to join the hunt. My friends mostly used Australian staghounds which was originally a greyhound and Scottish deerhound hybrid - these dogs are ideal for hunting in the Australian conditions but where I live guys take great pride in creating their own hybrids and will generally breed a staghound with a larger dog hoping to retain the speed but increase the power. So most of my friends had staghound hybrids like these that were staghound cross mastiff or whatever.

So after assembling at the Crown Land or The Common we would set out on foot for what would be the moving. We had no relays obviously - we would just walk through the bushland with the dogs on leads and we were hunting mostly by sight but the dogs would often pick up the scent of kangaroos and we would follow them. So you had to be quiet because the idea is to sneak up on a kangaroo or a group of them without them knowing you are there so they dont have too much of a head start on the dogs - it would happen quite a bit that a kangaroo we let the dogs off to chase down would escape because the dogs werent close enough to run it down. So when you did sight some kangaroos you sneak up as close as you can without getting spotted and you would split up a little so the dogs are coming from different angles. So when you are all in position you let the dogs off their leads and the chase begins.

So since we didnt have horses we had to sprint as fast as we could behind the dogs - the motivation was that you wanted to be as close to the dogs as possible when they had exhausted the kangaroo and it turned to defend itself - or was 'at bay'. This was the fun part - the baying. So when the kangaroo is at bay it will lean back on its tail and kick at the dogs - and its common for a dog to get injured and possible for them to be killed. But yeah this is the part you want to witness as the hunter. So my friends and I would sprint up behind and then crowd around to watch the fight. If you got a big buck then its likely it will put up a decent fight so the baying can last quite a while at times. Every now and then the buck will actually get the better of the dogs and they will be unable to kill it so you have to intervene. We wouldnt take knives because it would be unsafe to get within stabbing distance of a kangaroo at bay - especially a large buck standing as tall as a man - so what we would do if need be is pick up a goodly sized stick and hit the kangaroo in the head with it. If kangaroos have a weak spot it is their heads - they have pretty soft skulls. One time I saw a guy that couldnt find a stick and had to intervene so his dog didnt get killed run up and punch a big kangaroo in the head and he killed it. With one punch. Another time we had chased a big kangaroo into a dam - they often head for a dam if one is around because a kangaroo has a great advantage over the dogs when its in water and will push the dogs under and drown them - so this big kangaroo is in the dam and the dogs have gone in to get it but the roo keeps dunking them - and they cant be called off at this stage so we are all throwing rocks at the roo - and everyone is missing. I pick up a rock the size of a brick and I throw it and it hits the kangaroo right in the head and its head explodes - and as it sinks leaving a pool of red where it was my friends all let out a scream of - AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of my friends had a rottweiler and it was big and slow so no good for the chase but when it finally caught up it was a real killer when a kangaroo was at bay. His name was Brutus. Every now and then we would come out of The Common to some farmland that was owned by this guy Greenie - and he had sheep in these paddocks - and since Brutus had a taste for blood from kangaroo hunting it wanted to kill any animal it saw so sometimes we chase a kangaroo into one of Greenies paddocks and they head for this mountain he had - so the dogs are chasing but Brutus sees the sheep and splits off and ends up killing a sheep instead of the kangaroo. It used to get out of my friends yard and kill cats - once I remember it got into a guys chicken coop and killed all his chickens - and eventually my friend had to move the dog because the police were going to shoot it. So he moved it to another town to stay with his sister but it ended up biting a poodles head off and after that the police did shoot it. RIP Brutus.

But yeah - often you go out for a few afternoons in a row and dont even see a kangaroo - or you chase one but it gets away. So when you do get one there is great excitement and a collective bloodlust comes over the hunting party. This bloodlust is impossible to describe and I have never experienced anything like it.

After the kangaroo was dead we didnt bother with any 'unmaking'. We would go from kill to 'curee'. We would let the dogs eat some of the dead kangaroo but we would leave most of it.

So thats how modern hunting by force of dogs goes in modern times. This kind of thing was illegal back then but even more so these days. I often see in the news a story about killing a kangaroo with a dog and going to jail for it - but it is still quite common. Unless someone is stupid enough to video the baying and post it to facebook who is going to know? For the most part guys hunt pigs by force of dog and they will kill the pig with a knife after the dogs have chased it down - Medieval style - but there are still some people hunting kangaroos this way. If you are on a farm or some Crown Land who is going to see you?

I dont hunt anymore but I did enjoy it as a kid. I did some shooting as a kid too which involved some friends and I getting into the back of a ute at night with rifles and driving around a farm 'spotlighting' but I always found that to be boring as hell compared to hunting by force of dogs. And certainly less noble.

Do you guys agree? Hunting by force of dogs is more noble than by bow and stable right? Or guns.



edit - I forgot to mention. When a kangaroo is at bay it will let out a haunting scream.

Sounds really $#@!ed up. Nothing noble about it.

[TheOneOnly2]

I agree. What we were doing was pretty similar to how medieval nobility hunted though. It is true about the bloodlust though - you feel it. I did anyway.

[Standing Wolf]

I agree 100% with what Peter and Cletus wrote. If you found out your kid was going out shooting stray cats and dogs in the neighborhood, would you praise him - tell him what a noble pastime it was and how proud you were of him? The only difference is the size of the hunter and the species of the hunted.

Peter, you mentioned responsible wildlife management - and if what the agencies responsible for ensuring that in many states was doing and calling "wildlife management" served an actual good purpose that would be great; unfortunately it's not.

Historically, wildlife agencies’ primary objective has been to increase preferred game species’ populations for the purpose of satisfying hunters’ demands for more live-targets to shoot. State agency budgets, reliant on the sale of hunting licenses and matching federal funding, ultimately cater to hunters – a small yet vocal minority whose interests dictate wildlife policies. Consequently, the demands for violence towards animals overshadow the interests of the majority of the public who strive to be wise stewards and coexist with wildlife in their natural environment. An analysis of the current state of recreational hunting in America exposes a vast bureaucracy reliant upon enormous sums of money and far-reaching influence to maintain the public perception that killing animals for recreation is necessary for both humans and wildlife alike. Although wildlife agencies assure the public that lethal policies are aimed at preserving ecological diversity, it has much more to do with preserving the acceptance of hobby killing, increasing hunting participation, maximizing the carrying capacity of land to increase preferred game species numbers, and ultimately ensuring a reliable funding base for the agency.

https://www.centerforwildlifeethics....ling-for-funds

[Peter1469]

I agree 100% with what Peter and Cletus wrote. If you found out your kid was going out shooting stray cats and dogs in the neighborhood, would you praise him - tell him what a noble pastime it was and how proud you were of him? The only difference is the size of the hunter and the species of the hunted.

Peter, you mentioned responsible wildlife management - and if what the agencies responsible for ensuring that in many states was doing and calling "wildlife management" served an actual good purpose that would be great; unfortunately it's not.



https://www.centerforwildlifeethics....ling-for-funds

I don't doubt it is abused at times and maybe many many times.

I was thinking of reserves where a species is getting to large for its food supply so the authorities cull the heard before winter to avoid mass starvation, which would be much worse than the culling.

[Standing Wolf]

I don't doubt it is abused at times and maybe many many times.

I was thinking of reserves where a species is getting to large for its food supply so the authorities cull the heard before winter to avoid mass starvation, which would be much worse than the culling.

Fair enough, except when the size of the herd was deliberately manipulated in order to justify the "culling" and bring in revenue from the sale of hunting licenses. Assign the killing of excess population to wildlife management professionals, paying them as employees rather than taking money from them as licensees, and we'll see how much "culling" is really necessary. Then donate the meat to people who have a hard time affording groceries. Subsistence hunters are one thing; people who spend hundreds or more on licenses, gear, ammunition, etc. if they have the money to buy food to feed themselves and their families are not subsistence hunters. Then we enter into the realm of bloodlust and mental illness, which society should not be in the business of encouraging.

[Cletus]

Most folks around here who hunt do it to fill the freezer. A bull Elk will provide around 200 lbs of meat.

I have no use for trophy hunters.

[Dr. Who]

I personally find the idea of hunting repugnant, however I won't impose my personal beliefs in that respect on others. That said, people have a right to hunt for food. They shouldn't have a right to simply kill for fun or trophies, which in IMHO is reflective of a depraved mind, if not a sign of a predilection to kill anything for fun, including people.