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Thread: Christians lost abortion debate?

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    Christians lost abortion debate?

    It used to be that christianity was the driver of the anti-abortion movement but these days you hardly ever see someone arguing against abortion based on christianity - instead the anti-abortion crowd like to frame their abortion stance as a moral choice.

    Its still mostly christians that are against abortion but they know that only a tiny percentage of civilized populations agree with the pope that abortion is unacceptable in any circumstance - almost nobody agrees with them. Most Catholics do not agree with the pope because we know that he is a stupid old %$%$.

    So the anti-abortion crowd are a bunch of hypocrites because they now have to argue that abortion is acceptable in certain circumstances knowing that less than 5% of civilized populations agree with them and the pope that abortion is never ok. So they are 'pro-life' but only if this or this or this didnt happen in which case they are pro-abortion. Very few of the anti-abortion crowd are going to support forcing a teenager that has been raped by a mentally disabled homeless man to have the baby - less than 5% of them. The crazy old pope would though.

    But if there are any christians out there that do agree with the pope then what do you say about the Ordeal of the Bitter Water? You can waffle on about translations all you like but the fact is that there is a part of the bible that has a priest putting a curse on a woman that will cause her to miscarry if she has been unfaithful.

    “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”—21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...31&version=NIV

    Is this not an abortion in the bible? So there you have it - God is cool with abortion.

    Another thing christians in USA do is that they will argue that its ok for them to support the death penalty but not abortion because thou shalt not kill does not apply to the state but the fact is that its the state that is performing the abortions. So your argument only works if an individual has some kind of illegal abortion which is quite rare these days thanks to laws making abortion legal.

    So if you are a christian that believes that abortion is not ok in any circumstance then you are as crazy as the pope.

    If there are any less than 5%er christians here that do agree with the crazy pope can you explain to me why you would force a teenage girl that has been raped by a mentally disabled homeless man to have the baby? What about if it was a nurse that got brutally gang raped by a hundred maniacs in a mental asylum? Thats how we got Freddy Krueger you know. Wouldnt you have to agree that the pope belongs in a mental asylum?

    Last edited by TheOneOnly2; 09-20-2020 at 03:56 AM.

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    This is a silly argument about a complicated issue and I am not going to bother a point by point response - it seems to be more of an attack on Christians.

    The abortion issue is a definitional problem. When does human life start. The vast majority of people are against abortion after that point in time. The question is when do people believe that human life starts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    This is a silly argument about a complicated issue and I am not going to bother a point by point response - it seems to be more of an attack on Christians.

    The abortion issue is a definitional problem. When does human life start. The vast majority of people are against abortion after that point in time. The question is when do people believe that human life starts.
    Who told you that the vast majority if people are against abortion after the point that human life starts? Here is Australia over 80% believe that a woman should have the right to choose an abortion. I do not agree with framing the question as a womans right as it confuses the issue - best to just ask if you are pro or anti abortion. But yeah over 80% -

    • Australia: Since at least the 1980s, public opinion polls have shown a majority of Australians support abortion rights,[18] and that support for abortion is increasing.[19] In 2003, a poll by the Australian Survey of Social Attitudes found that 81% of Australians believe a woman should have the right to choose an abortion,[19] and a 2007 poll by the same group found 4% of Australians are opposed to abortion in all circumstances.[20]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societ...wards_abortion

    Bam! (: Australians dont give a %$%$ when life begins. Over 80% say its a womans right to have an abortion.

    And like I said - less than 5% of civilized populations are against abortion in any circumstance.

    So if you compare societal attitudes towards abortion to polls on when people believe human life begins you see that the vast majority are not against abortion after that point at all -

    Not surprisingly, Roman Catholics had the highest proportion voting for “sperm-egg” fusion, around 31%. By contrast, a third of Jewish respondents, 29% of agnostics and 27% of Muslims opted for fetal heartbeat. So too did 38% of IVF patients.Geographically, only 13% of UK respondents opted for “sperm-fusion”, with 43% choosing “fetal heartbeat”. In complete contrast, 47% of Australasians voted for “sperm-egg” and a tiny 7% for “fetal heartbeat”.
    The spread in North America was more even, with 27% choosing “sperm-egg”, 24% “fetal heartbeat” and 18% “implantation”.


    Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article...#ixzz6YZZHSJYz
    47% of Australians say sperm egg yet over 80% support a womans right to choose Peter. You are talking out of your ass as usual. And Catholicism is the dominant religion here. Ha.
    Last edited by TheOneOnly2; 09-20-2020 at 04:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneOnly2 View Post
    Who told you that the vast majority if people are against abortion after the point that human life starts? Here is Australia over 80% believe that a woman should have the right to choose an abortion. I do not agree with framing the question as a womans right as it confuses the issue - best to just ask if you are pro or anti abortion. But yeah over 80% -


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societ...wards_abortion

    Bam! (: Australians dont give a %$%$ when life begins. Over 80% say its a womans right to have an abortion.

    And like I said - less than 5% of civilized populations are against abortion in any circumstance.

    So if you compare societal attitudes to polls on when people believe human life begins you see that the vast majority are not against abortion after that point -



    47% of Australians say sperm egg yet 80% support a womans right to choose Peter. You are talking out of your ass as usual.
    Not giving a $#@! about human life.

    Using dogs to rip Kangaroos apart.

    Sounds like the people of Austrian have serious mental health issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    This is a silly argument about a complicated issue and I am not going to bother a point by point response - it seems to be more of an attack on Christians.

    The abortion issue is a definitional problem. When does human life start. The vast majority of people are against abortion after that point in time. The question is when do people believe that human life starts.
    Fetal heartbeat can be detected as early as 5-6 weeks after gestation..

    In all, 61% said they were in favor of a combination of limitations that included allowing abortion in just the first three months of a pregnancy (23%);
    https://www.wbur.org/npr/730183531/p...t-restrictions

    America! How many Americans want to ban abortion after 5 weeks? %$%$ all right.

    edit - Americans dont give a %$%$ either Peter. For the most part its just the media in the US that loves this issue because its a go nowhere wedge issue that distracts the public from real problems. In places like Australia/New Zealand/UK/Europe abortion is not an important political issue at all. Nobody gives a %$%$ about it.
    Last edited by TheOneOnly2; 09-20-2020 at 04:43 AM.

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    Another thing - many women dont even realize they are pregnant until after 5 weeks which would be after the point that fetal heartbeat can be detected. The reason most people support abortion is because they dont think a womans life should be ruined by an unwanted pregnancy. So if abortion was banned at point heartbeat can be detected this would mean that many women wouldnt know they were pregnant until it was already too late to abort. The majority will never ever agree with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneOnly2 View Post
    Another thing - many women dont even realize they are pregnant until after 5 weeks which would be after the point that fetal heartbeat can be detected. The reason most people support abortion is because they dont think a womans life should be ruined by an unwanted pregnancy. So if abortion was banned at point heartbeat can be detected this would mean that many women wouldnt know they were pregnant until it was already too late to abort. The majority will never ever agree with this.
    To do that they ignore the life issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    To do that they ignore the life issue.
    Exactly. Nobody ( few anyway ) cares if the baby is alive or not - the reality is that even if it is alive and has a heartbeat it doesnt yet have a life whereas the mother does. It doesnt know what it is - its not thinking deep thoughts - its not going to miss what it never had but the mother that does have a life is going to have that life ruined if forced into having an unwanted pregnancy.

    See what you are arguing for is that abortion is not ok under any circumstance if you believe that there should be no abortion after life begins. Even at 5/6 weeks when heartbeat can be detected most people are pro-abortion. In most US states you can abort up to 22 weeks - heartbeat should be pretty strong by that point right? The life issue is a non-issue for most people. Less than 5% of civilized populations believe that abortion is not ok under any circumstance and that covers whether or not the point of life has been reached because most women are not going to be able to abort within five weeks of getting pregnant - many wont even know by that stage. So the reality is that the no abortion under any circumstance argument is dead whether you are arguing as a christian that sides with the pope or a christian that is trying to frame the argument as a moral issue. Or 'definitional problem'. So you may as well give up. All this point of life propaganda isnt going to sway anyone. Its no better than siding with the pope. The crazy old %$%$. You can never win. And if you arent trying to win for christianity then what are you trying to win for? Unborn babies? Give me a break. Are you lying awake at night crying for all the aborted babies Peter? Do you know what might help.

    Serenity Prayer

    God, give me grace to accept with serenity
    the things that cannot be changed,
    Courage to change the things
    which should be changed,
    and the Wisdom to distinguish
    the one from the other.

    Living one day at a time,
    Enjoying one moment at a time,
    Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace,
    Taking, as Jesus did,
    This sinful world as it is,
    Not as I would have it,
    Trusting that You will make all things right,
    If I surrender to Your will,
    So that I may be reasonably happy in this life,
    And supremely happy with You forever in the next.

    Amen.

    Ha.

    edit - Accept what cannot be changed. Take the sinful world for what it is. God will fix it.
    Last edited by TheOneOnly2; 09-20-2020 at 08:34 AM. Reason: serenity

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    Abortion is all part of Gods plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    This is a silly argument about a complicated issue and I am not going to bother a point by point response - it seems to be more of an attack on Christians.

    The abortion issue is a definitional problem. When does human life start. The vast majority of people are against abortion after that point in time. The question is when do people believe that human life starts.

    Biologically, life begins at conception.

    Politically, the personhood argument is an arbitrary and subjective valuation of human life.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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