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Thread: The American West History Thread

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    The American West History Thread

    As you requested, sir. @Private Pickle

    Start it up!

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    Oh boy.

    Well, western history, such as it is, starts long before there was a "west" or a "history" to speak of.

    And it begins largely with the Germanic peoples who inhabited northern, western, and central Europe.

    Probably their "history" as a people formally began with their first contact with the Roman empire.

    Ironically, western civilization was in many ways a byproduct of Germanic resistance to being civilized by the Romans. Many of the values we now associate with western civilization - freedom, democracy, independence - were inherited from the Germanic tribal peoples that preceded it.

    The English common law, which forms the legal foundation for much of the western world, descended directly from Germanic customary laws that emerged in a tribal context.

    And you cannot mention these tribal Germanic peoples without also mentioning their pagan religion.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    I was actually thinking of starting a whole sub-forum but let's see how much interest we get.

    Well we were talking about which movie portrayed Wyatt Earp in the most accurate light.

    In the movie Tombstone Wyatt Earp was portrayed as a noble law man that has resettled in Tombstone to seek not fame but fortune and especially to leave the badge behind.

    In the movie Wyatt Earp, Earp is portrayed as someone who viewed Tombstone as a place where a law man can make real money.

    The reality is that both movies left out A LOT of history with regards to Wyatt. Probably because no one would watch a 7 hour movie but also because a lot of what Earp did was not really "Hollywood" acceptable. He certainly wasn't the "Hollywood Hero" he made himself out to be on all of the sets of the original movies back in the 20's and 30's.

    For example Wyatt's formative years were pretty wild. From being a coachman to a buffalo hunter... Even before he married his first wife, he was a frequent pimp and body guard to the ladies of the night. And he actually married a couple of them. Wyatt was engaged in just about everything, from prostitution, horse thievery and prize fighting (both fighting and refereeing). This continued after Priscilla's death until which point he was going to be hanged for stealing a horse and he "Straightened" his life out. All he really did was quit drinking because he went on as a law man in Dodge but also had several side businesses in transport, saloons and brothels.

    Tombstone wasn't Wyatt's first option for riches. He tried Deadwood. Not for the gold but for timber to sell to the miners. Unfortunately all the trees on the timber lease he had were green so him and Morgan did a little more buffalo hunting before making their way into Tombstone.

    Once there the Earp brothers wasted no time in becoming the law. The law in those days meant everything. Controlled everything. They were the original mafia and only a very select few can be pointed to as having been completely "clean".

    The most famous lawmen of the west... Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, Bill Hickock, Bill Tilghman... These were all men who were professional gunfighters but figured out how to do it legally. Then reaped all of the rewards of being a gunfighter on top of the rewards for being lawmen. Then all of the backend $#@! they were involved in.

    Wyatt, when he and his brothers moved down into Tombstone came across an ingrained criminal entity ironically called "The Cowboys". They were literally like the Bloods or Crips. Just a bunch of dudes who when they weren't doing normal duties as cowboys were rustling cattle, mostly from Mexico, but also involved in robberies of trains and stages. They were basically a rival mafia gang and the Earps were moving in on them only they had badges.

    Well their shared criminal activities inevitably ran into each other. The ranchers started to pay the Earps money directly to take a special interest in making sure their herds were protected. So they did. Which directly conflicted with the Cowboy's operation.

    Lots of words were said and the gunfight at the OK Corall was the result. It's what happened after that gunfight that really sums up who Wyatt Earp was. You see after the gunfight...Morgan Earp was assassinated while playing pool in a bar. After his younger brother was killed Wyatt exercised the most blatant and visibile abuse of the law utilizing his status as a Marshall to hunt down and kill those suspected of his brother's murder.

    After that he lit out to California and laid low until all the warrants kinda just died away.

    Wyatt Earp wasn't an American hero. He was just smart and tough enough to make the law work for him in a lawless land.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Oh boy.

    Well, western history, such as it is, starts long before there was a "west" or a "history" to speak of.

    And it begins largely with the Germanic peoples who inhabited northern, western, and central Europe.

    Probably their "history" as a people formally began with their first contact with the Roman empire.

    Ironically, western civilization was in many ways a byproduct of Germanic resistance to being civilized by the Romans. Many of the values we now associate with western civilization - freedom, democracy, independence - were inherited from the Germanic tribal peoples that preceded it.

    The English common law, which forms the legal foundation for much of the western world, descended directly from Germanic customary laws that emerged in a tribal context.

    And you cannot mention these tribal Germanic peoples without also mentioning their pagan religion.
    Sigh... Let's just focus on the guys that wore chaps and road horses with six shooters attached to their hip... And not necessarily the six shooters that were black powder although Bill Hickock wore .38 Caliber black powder guns until the day he died.....
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    Sigh... Let's just focus on the guys that wore chaps and road horses with six shooters attached to their hip... And not necessarily the six shooters that were black powder although Bill Hickock wore .38 Caliber black powder guns until the day he died.....
    By "western" history, are we talking about the American west?
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Private Pickle (09-21-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    By "western" history, are we talking about the American west?
    Yes. This thread was spawned off another thread about Western movies. I'm going to go ahead and change the title of the thread. @Perianne, please let me know by reporting or PM if you have a problem with the thread name change.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    By "western" history, are we talking about the American west?
    Sorry for the confusion although I'd love to hear about your take on this period of our history.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    Yes. This thread was spawned off another thread about Western movies. I'm going to go ahead and change the title of the thread. @Perianne, please let me know by reporting or PM if you have a problem with the thread name change.
    Thanks for fixing it. I had already put in a request via "report post". I like your title better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    Sigh... Let's just focus on the guys that wore chaps and road horses with six shooters attached to their hip... And not necessarily the six shooters that were black powder although Bill Hickock wore .38 Caliber black powder guns until the day he died.....
    I picked up a book a couple of years ago called 'Cowboy Culture' because I thought it was going to focus on the sorts of things we've been talking about - the frontier towns, lawmen and gunfighters, etc. Turns out it went back a little farther than I'd anticipated. Like, say, the introduction of cattle to the continent by Columbus. Not exactly what I expected, but interesting nonetheless.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    I picked up a book a couple of years ago called 'Cowboy Culture' because I thought it was going to focus on the sorts of things we've been talking about - the frontier towns, lawmen and gunfighters, etc. Turns out it went back a little farther than I'd anticipated. Like, say, the introduction of cattle to the continent by Columbus. Not exactly what I expected, but interesting nonetheless.
    Yeah not as much fun. I'll be honest I'm kinda like the dude that goes to a Star Wars convention dressed up as Darth Vader with regards to Western History.

    Example? I am a competitive gunfighter. I'm afraid to post my name or really any of the videos I have given this place can divolve into a cesspool but I compete across the country in competitive gunfighting.

    Example:



    Hint... I was one of those shooters...
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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