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Thread: Breonna Taylor Decision

  1. #21
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    carolina73's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    If there was a No Knock Warrant, then they announced themselves more than they needed to. That's why people are discussing the warrant. But we don't really know what was in the boyfriend's mind. Maybe he did think it was a home invasion. Maybe he thought the cops were there to arrest them and he was resisting, as we've seen numerous people do in these social media cases. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    It's a tragic case, but I don't see how charging the police officers with murder is going to serve justice. They weren't there to kill someone, they were fired upon first. We should learn from it, but I don't agree with society's need to always find a scapegoat.
    I'm no that interested in the specific case as I am in the set of circumstances. Police. Police. Open up in the middle of the night does not cut it.

    If you heard someone banging on the door while you are in bed then what are you going to do. Grab your gun and go to the door. You also have to factor in the neighborhood they were in. They went there at that time knowing that most people are in bed and that they would probably waking them up.

    The entire deal is bad for any race, in any neighborhood.

    I'm pro cop but I can't see any other situation that was likely here other than they did not introduce themselves enough times and loud enough. Otherwise, no one can explain why the boyfriend would have shot at the door.

    Obviously the cops did not do their homework here. They did not even bother to identify the occupants. I'm not a softy. If they said we are not coming out then I would say "okay throw in a stick of dynamite". I also do not want to shoot a cop because they made a mistake at my house. I'm using my shotgun and it would not be pretty.
    This was a lazy freakin detective that should be going to jail. And the judge that gave him a no knock warrant also has to be questioned as to what proof was provided. The subject moved out a month earlier.

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    Omar's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    This was a lazy freakin detective that should be going to jail.
    No one's nominating this as police work of the year. But that doesn't mean the cops are guilty of murder either. Aside from the wanton endangerment charge, it doesn't appear that a crime was committed. But they can learn from the experience, that's how society moves forward and improves. Charging a cop with murder doesn't accomplish anything but revenge. Burning down buildings and shooting cops isn't helpful either.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. If she's standing behind her boyfriend, and the boyfriend shoots a cop, she's in the wrong place at the wrong time. What were they cops supposed to do, stand there and be slaughtered? If they are fired on, it's not reasonable to not expect them to reply in kind. Now, it's certainly a very unfortunate situation, and they should learn from this so as to try to avoid such an event from ever happening again. But this Earth, and bad things are going to happen from time to time.
    No, they are not supposed to stand there and be slaughtered. They are also not supposed to slaughter people who do not pose a threat to them. You can't excuse this by saying she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The person pulling the trigger has a legal obligation to know what he is shooting at and whether his target poses a threat. Collateral damage is not acceptable in a law enforcement action.

    The only proper resolution to this is for the cop who fired the fatal shots to be charged, convicted, and punished to the fullest extent of the law.
    It's a tragic case, but I don't see how charging the police officers with murder is going to serve justice. They weren't there to kill someone, they were fired upon first.
    Not by the person they killed.

    We should learn from it, but I don't agree with society's need to always find a scapegoat.
    It is not about "finding a scapegoat". It is about seeing justice done for a woman who was wrongly killed by the negligence and incompetence of an agent of the government.

    Do you think if YOU had been the one to pull the trigger, the state would just shrug and say "$#@! happens"? You would be facing criminal charges and a long stretch in prison. The fact that the shooter was a cop, if it has any bearing at all, should mean that he should be held to an even higher standard than you would be.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    No, they are not supposed to stand there and be slaughtered. They are also not supposed to slaughter people who do not pose a threat to them. You can't excuse this by saying she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The person pulling the trigger has a legal obligation to know what he is shooting at and whether his target poses a threat. Collateral damage is not acceptable in a law enforcement action.

    The only proper resolution to this is for the cop who fired the fatal shots to be charged, convicted, and punished to the fullest extent of the law.


    Not by the person they killed.


    It is not about "finding a scapegoat". It is about seeing justice done for a woman who was wrongly killed by the negligence and incompetence of an agent of the government.

    Do you think if YOU had been the one to pull the trigger, the state would just shrug and say "$#@! happens"? You would be facing criminal charges and a long stretch in prison. The fact that the shooter was a cop, if it has any bearing at all, should mean that he should be held to an even higher standard than you would be.
    Just tacking a "Thanks" on to your post just doesn't seem like enough to me right now, so I wanted to make a point of saying Thanks in a more explicit way.

    D, you're one of the reasons I'm still posting here. You give me hope and you confirm my belief that fairness is not a quality abandoned by all Americans of good will and intelligence.
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    Cletus (09-27-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    No, they are not supposed to stand there and be slaughtered. They are also not supposed to slaughter people who do not pose a threat to them. You can't excuse this by saying she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The person pulling the trigger has a legal obligation to know what he is shooting at and whether his target poses a threat. Collateral damage is not acceptable in a law enforcement action.

    The only proper resolution to this is for the cop who fired the fatal shots to be charged, convicted, and punished to the fullest extent of the law.


    Not by the person they killed.


    It is not about "finding a scapegoat". It is about seeing justice done for a woman who was wrongly killed by the negligence and incompetence of an agent of the government.

    Do you think if YOU had been the one to pull the trigger, the state would just shrug and say "$#@! happens"? You would be facing criminal charges and a long stretch in prison. The fact that the shooter was a cop, if it has any bearing at all, should mean that he should be held to an even higher standard than you would be.
    I don't do law enforcement shooting. In a combat situation if the enemy is using a civilian as a shield, it is legal to kill the citizen to get the enemy. That doesn't necessarily mean do it. That depends on the nature of the conflict and the politics on the ground.
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    Without grand jury transcripts we cannot know whether their decisions were correct.
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    carolina73's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    No one's nominating this as police work of the year. But that doesn't mean the cops are guilty of murder either. Aside from the wanton endangerment charge, it doesn't appear that a crime was committed. But they can learn from the experience, that's how society moves forward and improves. Charging a cop with murder doesn't accomplish anything but revenge. Burning down buildings and shooting cops isn't helpful either.
    I understand how this works. The cops that served the warrant probably were not involved in the investigation. That is why I target the detective (who was reassigned quickly) and question what evidence the judge was provided. This warrant did not need to be served when people were in bed. UPS did not make a midnight delivery. The shooting pattern of the cops shows panic not training.

    What makes you think that could not have been you in that apartment? Or even the apartment next door with the cops bullets coming through the walls?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Just tacking a "Thanks" on to your post just doesn't seem like enough to me right now, so I wanted to make a point of saying Thanks in a more explicit way.

    D, you're one of the reasons I'm still posting here. You give me hope and you confirm my belief that fairness is not a quality abandoned by all Americans of good will and intelligence.

    That means a lot.

    Thank you.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    I understand how this works. The cops that served the warrant probably were not involved in the investigation. That is why I target the detective (who was reassigned quickly) and question what evidence the judge was provided. This warrant did not need to be served when people were in bed. UPS did not make a midnight delivery. The shooting pattern of the cops shows panic not training.

    What makes you think that could not have been you in that apartment? Or even the apartment next door with the cops bullets coming through the walls?
    The justification usually given for middle-of-the-night raids such as this one, no knock or otherwise, is that serving the warrant during the day might result in residents having time to flush the drugs - assuming there are even any drugs there to be flushed - before they can be seized into evidence. At least 43% of American homes have firearms in them - and that's only the percentage whose residents do so legally and will admit to it - making the practice of smashing into folks' homes in the middle of the night a real crapshoot (no pun intended) in terms of putting both civilian and police lives in jeopardy.

    The police and prosecutors are weighing the benefits of getting relatively small amounts of illegal substances and those who deal in them off the streets against the risk of death or serious injury to police officers and civilians - civilians who in many cases are going to be guiltless of any wrongdoing, and in all cases are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. The penalty for hearing persons unknown smash in your front door at 3 a.m. and going for your gun should not be death.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    What makes you think that could not have been you in that apartment? Or even the apartment next door with the cops bullets coming through the walls?
    It could be anyone, that's why procedures like this need to be looked at, and improved or done away with as needed. I just don't think the cops should be charged with murder, as the media and activists want to press. If the cops need to be better trained, I'm all for more training. More training isn't going to be paid for by defunding the police, however.

    It's hard to analyze this situation too deeply without knowing the exact setup of the house, where everyone was, how light it was in the house, what happened that the boyfriend wasn't shot at all while Taylor was shot multiple times, etc. We don't have access to this information, while presumably the grand jury did, so for the media and the frenzied mob to rush to judgement without having all the facts seems absurd to me. They are acting on emotion rather than logic, and that's not a good thing.

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