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Thread: Sailing Without Ballast

  1. #1
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    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Sailing Without Ballast

    Sailing Without Ballast compares the politics of the French Revolution to today's.

    "I saw, with pain, that you are persuaded that any intelligent person who thinks differently from you...is not a good citizen.” One would be forgiven for thinking that the line comes from a conversation overheard last week in Washington D.C. It doesn’t. It is what Madame Roland (Marie-Jeanne Roland de la Platière), one of the important figures of the French Revolution, told Maximilien Robespierre more than two centuries ago. Not that the reproach helped the architect of the Reign of Terror change his mind; if anything, such criticisms made him even more impatient. For he was convinced that the Revolution needed terror as fire needs fuel. “Terror is nothing other than justice, prompt, severe, inflexible,” and for him the Revolution was above all a matter of historical justice. It didn’t help Madame Roland either: she would end up imprisoned and, eventually, guillotined. She had been a genuine, enthusiastic child of the Revolution, but as Pierre Vergniaud famously put it, the “Revolution, like Saturn, devours its own children.” (Vergniaud himself would be devoured in October 1793.)

    Parallels are plentiful between Robespierre’s time and ours. When he pushed his fellow Jacobins to “fall on all the odious journalists” whose “existence becomes more pernicious to society every day,” one cannot but be reminded of the way journalists are sometimes treated today as “enemies of the people,” disturbers of the social peace whom we could do well without. Under the excuse of a “need for unity,” disagreement and dissent can easily be presented as treason. Even before the Reign of Terror started, as Jeremy Popkin observes in his excellent A New World Begins, revolutionary groups in France “increasingly saw their opponents not just as misguided but as traitors to the country who needed to be physically eliminated.” And once you have got rid of someone in your mind, doing so in practice can be a very simple affair.

    As Popkin shows, the “French Revolution was the laboratory in which all the possibilities of modern politics, both positive and negative, were tested for the first time.” It’s not just the philosophy of human rights, freedom, and equality that we share with those who made the French Revolution; we also owe to them much of the way we think about politics and society, social transformation and political change. To an important extent, we still employ the categories formulated by the French revolutionaries; we use their language to understand our political realities, and even ourselves. And it’s from them that we have largely learned how to dream politically: the phantasm of a radically new beginning that would cut us off from a shameful past, the intoxicating vision of a world made anew—this was all formulated and rehearsed in France more than two centuries ago. That’s why a closer look at the French Revolution might teach us something important about our own political imaginary. And also about how dangerous such revolutionary dreaming can become when it gives itself permission for terror....
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Casey Jones's Avatar Senior Member
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    There were massive, massive differences between the American Revolution and the French.

    The American war for independence was a war fought on principles. First, legal documents were drafted, declaring intent, offering justification.

    The king responded as they knew he would. Then fighting commenced...not violence for violence' sake, but to drive the Redcoats into the sea, and send the Loyalists north of the Great Lakes. Objectives; and force only to effect those objectives.

    The French Revolution was effectively a fit of rage. Just KILL!!! The Reign of Terror was deliberate and planned. Although the mobs needed little ginning up...

    The revolutionists had won, nearly from the start. The raid on the Bastille was a farce - there were only a few prisoners in it; the prison was being closed, the jailer brought the mob's leaders in.

    Didn't matter. The leaders killed the jailer; ate his lunch, literally, and then the mobs came in and destroyed everything.

    The king. Louis had abdicated before the revolutionary assembly. ABDICATED. They wanted him gone, he was gone. His crime, effectively, was trying to flee to Germany. He had disguised himself and Marie, and were in transit, but the Revolutionary forces were notified; he was captured and imprisoned.

    It wasn't about removing the King or the old order. Those were gone. It was about blood-lust.

    And of course, such hysteria is not sated by the death of one king, or a packet of noblemen. No, the National Razor must be fed...charwomen and stable-hands and anyone who caught the attention of someone who was no one but had a following in the mob.

    It all came to a crescendo with Robespierre being shot on the Assembly floor, as he prepared to denounce several other Revolutionaries. Shot in the jaw, and then, wounded and semiconscious, fed into the guillotine the next morning.




    This is all important to remember, both as we compare, and as we try to plan counter-strategies. Today's mob are nothing like the French - today's mobs are not Revolutionaries, but are the Elites, making full conquest of the nation. They OWN the government; but they want LIMITS on government, REMOVED.

    The mobs are their tools - they're promised money and entertainment - Reparations, license to loot and commit arson; actual payments from Soros.

    They're as crazy as the French revolutionaries, but in entirely-different place. Today's situation, in France, would be the King and Nobility, paying riotoers to agitate to attack the Assembly and remove any Constitutional or church limits on the power of the Royals and Nobility.

    OUR role, here....MUST BE...to THINK. To have OBJECTIVES - not to engage in mindless counter-rioting to the Left's paid rioters.

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    Right, the two revolutions were different. The current leftist revolution here however is comparable to the Frech Revolution.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    I just explained why not.

    We have the Elites, who, as a class, currently HOLD power - in government, in media, in leadership positions - working to remove CHECKS on power, that protect basic rights of non-elites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post
    I just explained why not.

    We have the Elites, who, as a class, currently HOLD power - in government, in media, in leadership positions - working to remove CHECKS on power, that protect basic rights of non-elites.

    Leaders like Robespierre and Roland were the elite. The French mobs were angry and easily manipulated.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    When I see antiFa groups then I don't see revolutionaries looking for freedom.
    I see little brainwashed kids

    It is a small group that we can stomp out in a minute but political correctness is preventing us from doing that.
    Round up the leaders. Find out where they are getting their air tickets, hotel funds and put an end to it.

    The looters are like the French Revolutions looters that were out to take what they could get in the midst of civil unrest. They should have been stopped but they are not consequential.
    The little rich 90 pound boys trying to act tough behind a mask will go back to their video games when this is done.

    If this were not an election year then we know that would have happened but this is an election year.

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    It all came to a crescendo with Robespierre being shot on the Assembly floor, as he prepared to denounce several other Revolutionaries. Shot in the jaw, and then, wounded and semiconscious, fed into the guillotine the next morning.
    hell of a dental procedure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    When I see antiFa groups then I don't see revolutionaries looking for freedom.
    I see little brainwashed kids

    It is a small group that we can stomp out in a minute but political correctness is preventing us from doing that.
    Round up the leaders. Find out where they are getting their air tickets, hotel funds and put an end to it.

    The looters are like the French Revolutions looters that were out to take what they could get in the midst of civil unrest. They should have been stopped but they are not consequential.
    The little rich 90 pound boys trying to act tough behind a mask will go back to their video games when this is done.

    If this were not an election year then we know that would have happened but this is an election year.

    Election has much to do with it. Impeachment failed, C19 was the next best thing. Then "systemic racism."
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Right, the two revolutions were different. The current leftist revolution here however is comparable to the French Revolution.
    There is a similar underlying paranoia to the whole thing that defies liberty. They both saw enemies all about them and demand absolute conformity!

    What happened in Seattle was very instructive. The so called ANTI-Fascists were quick to put up armed check points, demand ID (papers), exile suspect non-conformists, constant rallies and bullhorn lectures by the so-called leaders, ect.......

    Even with outside funding it was going to fall apart sooner or later.

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    Both saw/see liberty as something provided by the State. As Rousseau argued, society puts the individual in chains and the state must be turned to to free man from those chains.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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