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Thread: nursing home residents protest lockdown: “I’d rather die of COVID than Loneliness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Okay, so more than half of CNA's are minorities and more than 90% are women. I get that. Not in my neck of the woods, obviously, but elsewhere, likely because it doesn't take too much education or skill to become a CNA.

    What is still not in evidence is that those CNAs are more likely to care for their elderly relatives at home as well, and that those elderly relatives are not covered for treatment for covid.

    The cost of nursing care is keeping many of the elderly at home longer, in fact, home health care companies are thriving because they can send aides (and nurses) into private homes, which is far cheaper than admitting the elderly person to a nursing facility.

    It is true that more minorities, percentage-wise, will work in lower paying jobs because they have higher drop-out rates and lower education levels. But, that holds true for all lower paying jobs, including food service, hotel cleaning, etc. It's not limited to working in nursing homes. That problem has more to do with teaching young minority girls that they deserve better than being someone's baby mama.

    So, okay, you made your point about minorities working in nursing homes, but we still don't know that they are caring for elderly relatives at home. And, I'm pretty sure Medicaid is picking up the bill for indigent folks that become infected through the CARES Act.

    It still doesn't seem to tip the balance in favor of continued isolation of nursing home residents.

    "A 2001 survey on multicultural boomers by AARP found that Asians, Blacks, and Hispanics are more likely to have three generations under one roof or extended family living in the home than Whites. Furthermore, Asians (42%) were more likely to care for an older relative than Hispanics (34%), Blacks (28%), or Whites (19%). A recent study by the National Alliance for Caregiving and AARP showed that, overall, Asian, Black, and Hispanic caregivers provide similar types of care and experience similar stresses and, among these groups, Hispanic caregivers are more likely to say they live with the person they care for." https://www.aarp.org/home-garden/liv...fs119_ltc.html



    Among Asians living in multigenerational homes, Filipinos are the highest percentage to do so. http://geriatrics.stanford.edu/wp-co...o_american.pdf



    "Asia was the leading region of birth of immigrant health-care workers in 2018, with 40 percent, followed by the Caribbean (16 percent); Mexico and Central America (14 percent); Africa (12 percent); Europe, Northern America, and Oceania (12 percent collectively); and South America (6 percent)." https://www.migrationpolicy.org/arti...ed-states-2018

    Nursing ranks are filled with Filipino Americans. The pandemic is taking an outsized toll on them.
    https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/28/...erican-nurses/
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Okay, so more than half of CNA's are minorities and more than 90% are women. I get that. Not in my neck of the woods, obviously, but elsewhere, likely because it doesn't take too much education or skill to become a CNA.

    What is still not in evidence is that those CNAs are more likely to care for their elderly relatives at home as well, and that those elderly relatives are not covered for treatment for covid.

    The cost of nursing care is keeping many of the elderly at home longer, in fact, home health care companies are thriving because they can send aides (and nurses) into private homes, which is far cheaper than admitting the elderly person to a nursing facility.

    It is true that more minorities, percentage-wise, will work in lower paying jobs because they have higher drop-out rates and lower education levels. But, that holds true for all lower paying jobs, including food service, hotel cleaning, etc. It's not limited to working in nursing homes. That problem has more to do with teaching young minority girls that they deserve better than being someone's baby mama.

    So, okay, you made your point about minorities working in nursing homes, but we still don't know that they are caring for elderly relatives at home. And, I'm pretty sure Medicaid is picking up the bill for indigent folks that become infected through the CARES Act.

    It still doesn't seem to tip the balance in favor of continued isolation of nursing home residents.
    I took care of my mother the last 5 years of her life, instead of putting her in a nursing home, because with my care and that of a hospice (not the first hospice we used, I FIRED them), so that I could be sure of the kind of care she got. I'm an only child and had nobody else to help, except a neighbor across the street, who's a retired nurse and went to church with my parents for almost 40 years. Even on the 3 or 4 occasions that we put her in respite care for 5 days at a time when I was exhausted, and they were supposedly some of the BEST ones, the care was CRAP. Not to mention the THIEVES.

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    FindersKeepers (10-14-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    "A 2001 survey on multicultural boomers by AARP found that Asians, Blacks, and Hispanics are more likely to have three generations under one roof or extended family living in the home than Whites. Furthermore, Asians (42%) were more likely to care for an older relative than Hispanics (34%), Blacks (28%), or Whites (19%). A recent study by the National Alliance for Caregiving and AARP showed that, overall, Asian, Black, and Hispanic caregivers provide similar types of care and experience similar stresses and, among these groups, Hispanic caregivers are more likely to say they live with the person they care for." https://www.aarp.org/home-garden/liv...fs119_ltc.html
    You're posting a lot of links and studies that do not support your hypothesis, which is that nursing homes should remain on lockdown because CNNs and other lower-paid workers are likely to be minorities that are likely to go home and care for an elderly relative who is uninsured and can't get treatment for covid.

    Your link about Asians being nurses is interesting but it appears they go more for the RN, LPN status than the lower-paid CNA jobs.

    There does appear to be a link between blacks and higher death tolls from the virus, but that's been mostly attributed to higher obesity levels with blacks -- and that does not hold true with Asians as a race.

    The biggest misconception you seem to have is that those elderly relatives have no means of being treated if they fall ill. I pointed out your error--the CARES Act is providing medical treatment. And, if they're over 55, they qualify for either Medicare or Medicaid, depending on their financial situation.

    In short -- your claim doesn't hold water. When posters start throwing out links to a lot of articles and studies--without explaining the significance of each to their argument--typically they're on thin ice.

    You have not offered any succinct reason for disallowing nursing home residents to visit with their families rather than remain isolated. The needs of both must be balanced out, and that has nothing to do with being a minority. Rather, it has to do with treating all humans like humans.
    Last edited by FindersKeepers; 10-14-2020 at 05:38 AM.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sybil Ludington View Post
    I took care of my mother the last 5 years of her life, instead of putting her in a nursing home, because with my care and that of a hospice (not the first hospice we used, I FIRED them), so that I could be sure of the kind of care she got. I'm an only child and had nobody else to help, except a neighbor across the street, who's a retired nurse and went to church with my parents for almost 40 years. Even on the 3 or 4 occasions that we put her in respite care for 5 days at a time when I was exhausted, and they were supposedly some of the BEST ones, the care was CRAP. Not to mention the THIEVES.

    Bless your heart. You did what you had to do. I did it for my dad, even to the extent of building a house for him that would accommodate his power-chair when he could no longer walk and he never went to a nursing home.

    My dad passed but my mom is still here and now she's nearing that stage. I'm lucky to have my sister here who is a national Hospice nurse (I hate Hospice, but I love my sister.) and we share care of our mother.

    You're right about the quality of care in many nursing homes--if you're going to put a relative in one--make sure you have a nanny cam in there, too. Some of the horror stories I've heard are enough to make your hair stand on end. That goes back to low-paid CNAs and aides, I'm afraid. They simply don't care and wiping poopy butts wears them down.

    Plus, the cost is astronomical for such poor care. There are some good homes out there, but many are deplorable.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    You're posting a lot of links and studies that do not support your hypothesis, which is that nursing homes should remain on lockdown because CNNs and other lower-paid workers are likely to be minorities that are likely to go home and care for an elderly relative who is uninsured and can't get treatment for covid.

    Your link about Asians being nurses is interesting but it appears they go more for the RN, LPN status than the lower-paid CNA jobs.

    There does appear to be a link between blacks and higher death tolls from the virus, but that's been mostly attributed to higher obesity levels with blacks -- and that does not hold true with Asians as a race.

    The biggest misconception you seem to have is that those elderly relatives have no means of being treated if they fall ill. I pointed out your error--the CARES Act is providing medical treatment. And, if they're over 55, they qualify for either Medicare or Medicaid, depending on their financial situation.

    In short -- your claim doesn't hold water. When posters start throwing out links to a lot of articles and studies--without explaining the significance of each to their argument--typically they're on thin ice.

    You have not offered any succinct reason for disallowing nursing home residents to visit with their families rather than remain isolated. The needs of both must be balanced out, and that has nothing to do with being a minority. Rather, it has to do with treating all humans like humans.
    The fact that the elderly relatives may have Medicare or Medicaid etc. doesn't matter, since their children don't want them to get sick to begin with, given their higher risk of dying from Covid. It's the workers themselves who may not have any benefits. Many of those articles lump CNAs in with nursing for the purposes of the statistics. From recent personal experience in hospital settings (husband received kidney transplant), at least 1/3 of all the CNAs that I've seen are Filipino or Filipina. They were similarly represented among the nursing staff. However, as you know, in nursing homes, there is a much higher ratio of CNAs vs nurses and the staff are less well provisioned with PPE.

    As to Black or Latino workers:
    Black, Indigenous, Pacific Islander and Latino Americans all have COVID-19 death rates of roughly triple or more the rate of White Americans (age-adjusted).

    What does this mean? It indicates that many younger Americans who are Black, Latino, Indigenous or Pacific Islanders are dying of COVID-19—driving their mortality rates far above White Americans’. Despite their relative youthfulness (a protective factor against COVID), their death rates are elevated. As Brookings Institution has reported, “In every age category, Black people are dying from COVID at roughly the same rate as White people more than a decade older.”

    Depending on the community, this may be due to numerous, reinforcing factors related to a higher likelihood of contracting the virus—such as greater workplace exposures, including inability to work from home or no access to sick days; living in geographic areas, housing arrangements including congregate settings (such as nursing homes, group homes, treatment centers, correctional facilities), or accessing public transportation where the virus is more easily spread. It also results from poorer outcomes after acquiring COVID-19—such as resulting from less access to testing; higher presence of underlying health conditions like diabetes, hypertension, obesity and asthma; and receiving delayed or poorer medical care, perhaps because they lack health insurance or distrust health providers or they are simply receiving inferior care. https://www.apmresearchlab.org/covid/deaths-by-race
    As much as Black and Latino workers might fear for their own health in these settings, they would be doubly concerned about bringing this virus home to elderly or otherwise vulnerable family members.


    Any way you cut it, they don't have much incentive to risk their own health or that of loved ones while being paid <$25K/year, for the sake of patients who want hugs.

    Furthermore, there are also certainly plenty of nursing home patients whose families dump them in there and rarely visit them anyway. I'm sure they aren't part of the contingent protesting for high risk contact.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Just an FYI about this facility:

    "At Fairacres, which has 116 beds, 13 residents died after testing positive for COVID-19 or being presumed to have had it, state data show. The dead were among 40 residents reported to have the virus. Another 46 infections occurred among Fairacres staff, all non-fatal. The state declared the outbreak resolved in mid-May." https://www.greeleytribune.com/2020/...r-coronavirus/
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The fact that the elderly relatives may have Medicare or Medicaid etc. doesn't matter, since their children don't want them to get sick to begin with, given their higher risk of dying from Covid. It's the workers themselves who may not have any benefits. Many of those articles lump CNAs in with nursing for the purposes of the statistics. From recent personal experience in hospital settings (husband received kidney transplant), at least 1/3 of all the CNAs that I've seen are Filipino or Filipina. They were similarly represented among the nursing staff. However, as you know, in nursing homes, there is a much higher ratio of CNAs vs nurses and the staff are less well provisioned with PPE.

    As to Black or Latino workers:


    As much as Black and Latino workers might fear for their own health in these settings, they would be doubly concerned about bringing this virus home to elderly or otherwise vulnerable family members.


    Any way you cut it, they don't have much incentive to risk their own health or that of loved ones while being paid <$25K/year, for the sake of patients who want hugs.

    Furthermore, there are also certainly plenty of nursing home patients whose families dump them in there and rarely visit them anyway. I'm sure they aren't part of the contingent protesting for high risk contact.

    I can relate to all workers who have elderly relatives and don't want to risk bringing home the virus to them, but if masks and PPEs are doing their jobs, the risk of nursing home workers becoming infected is far less than, say, meat packers who are even more likely to be infected because they don't have PPEs and couldn't accurately do their jobs if they did have them. But, society collectively decided they wanted their burgers and steaks more than they wanted to protect workers in a field that's even more heavily dominated by minorities, and so the highest infection rates are coming from meat-packing plants.

    As someone who hasn't eaten meat in many years, I know humans don't need it to survive and thrive, but meat eaters don't know it. They'd probably be healthier if the meat packing plants were shut down.

    But, back to nursing home workers--are the relatives of CNA's and other health workers more important than the relatives of meat plant workers? I don't think so. I think all are equally important to those who love them.

    In nursing homes, we have the added issue of residents going downhill rapidly when isolated. This, too, must be factored in. There's something wrong in a nation when the people who've worked their entire lives are treated like prisoners (solitary is a punishment for felons, remember).

    Nope, the residents are paying the health worker's wages, hence, their needs (including emotional needs) should come first. If a health worker is frightened, he or she can always quit and find another job. But, the last months and years of our elderly should be highly respected.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sybil Ludington View Post
    ONLY through glass. And you're damn right they need hugs. Sounds like you could certainly use some......maybe then you attitude wouldn't be so hateful all the time.
    If that's the case, why don't the family members simply take them home?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMNIXON View Post
    That is a blatant LIE!

    My own father died in a California State Certified Nursing Home after going into a Coma just weeks ago. Nobody could visit since March of 2019.

    Is it so important to your politics that you would perpetuate myths?
    Perhaps you should read the OP before you make yourself look so silly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Perhaps you should read the OP before you make yourself look so silly?
    Your compassion is astounding.

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