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Thread: Atheist Group Shutdowns Kansas School “Operation Christmas Child” Participation

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    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    I think Emerson's point was that what really matters is not where you end up, but what you learn and experience... who you become along the way.
    Perhaps. I'm not familiar with the man.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Cletus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    That's Reason10, BTW
    Well, he said a lot of stupid things before. I guess changing his username didn't make him any smarter.
    “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.” - Ronald Reagan, October 27, 1964

  3. #503
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    Standing Wolf's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Good then please do me a favor and stop repeating the same, irrelevant objections and asking the same irrelevant questions. Again, not a put down. It's just that going over the same ground is becoming tiresome. Virtually everyone would characterize that statement as perverted which is exactly what I said to Cletus when I mentioned your response. That's my point. 99.9999% of atheists would concur with your sentiments but there is no ultimate justification for them to do so. In the end, it's just not acceptable behavior among men because it makes living in community difficult but this could have no relationship with any objective truth. IOW, the mother's behavior would not be wrong in any genuine, objective way. It's just something men said you shouldn't do. Yes, you might be horrified and disgusted but all of our reactions are at best determined by our animal nature and/or culture. What else is there? Secondly, that's not a claim. It's simply the reality of a universe with no inherent order, meaning or purpose. Logic, not opinion.

    You're doing it again. If you want to understand my position you really need to listen to what I say. What I believe is not relevant. Does God exist or not and what are the logical consequences? The logical consequences are as I described them. Your efforts to do "right" could correspond to nothing more than the subjective designs of men. Why does this bother you? If it does, maybe you should reconsider things but was not my intention. I was asked why I thought most atheists are intellectually inconsistent. I explained exactly why.
    I didn't say that most atheists would consider your dismissal of the women cutting her little girl's throat meaningless; I wrote "most decent people". That would include the great majority of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. Your characterization of an act like that as "meaningless" has nothing to do with being a Christian or a theist and everything to do with being so prideful at believing in The Right Thing that there is no longer any room in your thinking for what it means to be a decent human being.

    Ultimately, which moral code has more of a basis in reality...more meaning? One designed to make some supernatural thing happy so it will let you exist forever, or one that only prompts one to play fair with and be good to others in the small time we have to do it in on this planet?

    Your judgment of all moral codes (except the one that's been assigned to you by your church) as "meaningless" and of no objective value clearly makes it impossible for you to see and understand other points of view on the subject. Thank...whoever...that your attitude is not the prevalent one among Catholics, or among Christianity generally. This is one of those situations where you may feel that your faith (or your Faith), your church or your god itself is being criticized or denounced, but in fact that's not the case; it's just you.
    "If you get hurt, hurt 'em back. If you get killed...walk it off." - Captain America in Captain America: Civil War

    "The guy who kills me... I hope he does it because he hates my guts, not because it's his job." - Sonny (Al Pacino) in Dog Day Afternoon

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    I didn't say that most atheists would consider your dismissal of the women cutting her little girl's throat meaningless; I wrote "most decent people". That would include the great majority of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. Your characterization of an act like that as "meaningless" has nothing to do with being a Christian or a theist and everything to do with being so prideful at believing in The Right Thing that there is no longer any room in your thinking for what it means to be a decent human being.

    Ultimately, which moral code has more of a basis in reality...more meaning? One designed to make some supernatural thing happy so it will let you exist forever, or one that only prompts one to play fair with and be good to others in the small time we have to do it in on this planet?

    Your judgment of all moral codes (except the one that's been assigned to you by your church) as "meaningless" and of no objective value clearly makes it impossible for you to see and understand other points of view on the subject. Thank...whoever...that your attitude is not the prevalent one among Catholics, or among Christianity generally. This is one of those situations where you may feel that your faith (or your Faith), your church or your god itself is being criticized or denounced, but in fact that's not the case; it's just you.
    You're not starting off well. I know you didn't say that. No one attributed those words to you. I said the vast majority of atheists would agree that such an act is inherently evil yet they really don't have anything more than human opinion to justify their disgust. As for being decent, ditto. It's just a subjective human standard. Don't blame me. It's not my worldview.

    Any "moral order" that does not originate in men. I'm not sure how many more times and in how many different ways this can be conveyed. Your caricatures are not worth responding to.

    I haven't made a judgment of " all moral codes". Is this deliberate? Why are you so defensive? Why do you keep attributing comments to me that I obviously didn't make? Why do you keep talking about me. If my religious faith is not under attack why can't you stop talking about it?

    Good day, Standing Wolf, but before we part ways I think you would do well to emulate your friend Cletus. He is obviously much more confident in who he is and what he believes and he obviously has a much more open mind than you do. Do better next time.
    Last edited by Mister D; 11-25-2020 at 04:50 PM.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    I've given analogies earlier, the creation of energy in a closed system meaning nothing in an open system (1st Law of Thermodynamics). Adam Smith's explanation of empathy looking inward for empathy about Chinese in an earthquake (Theory of Moral Sentiments). Here's another, meant to be humorous, you'll get the allusion: If an atheist proclaims a moral code in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does he make a sound?
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I've given analogies earlier, the creation of energy in a closed system meaning nothing in an open system (1st Law of Thermodynamics). Adam Smith's explanation of empathy looking inward for empathy about Chinese in an earthquake (Theory of Moral Sentiments). Here's another, meant to be humorous, you'll get the allusion: If an atheist proclaims a moral code in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does he make a sound?
    Funny.

    I'm just kind of annoyed now. What a waste of time. Lesson learned: if someone wants to take offense they'll find a reason to.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Funny.

    I'm just kind of annoyed now. What a waste of time. Lesson learned: if someone wants to take offense they'll find a reason to.
    I thought it good discussion for the most part. Two sides were elucidated, intellectually, abstractly. The matter can't be resolved because each begins with an axiom of faith/belief/assumption like Euclidean vs non-Euclidean Geometry.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Standing Wolf's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    You're not starting off well. I know you didn't say that. No one attributed those words to you. I said the vast majority of atheists would agree that such an act is inherently evil yet they really don't have anything more than human opinion to justify their disgust. As for being decent, ditto. It's just a subjective human standard. Don't blame me. It's not my worldview.

    Any "moral order" that does not originate in men. I'm not sure how many more times and in how many different ways this can be conveyed. Your caricatures are not worth responding to.

    I haven't made a judgment of " all moral codes". Is this deliberate? Why are you so defensive? Why do you keep attributing comments to me that I obviously didn't make? Why do you keep talking about me. If my religious faith is not under attack why can't you stop talking about it?

    Good day, Standing Wolf, but before we part ways I think you would do well to emulate your friend Cletus. He is obviously much more confident in who he is and what he believes and he obviously has a much more open mind than you do. Do better next time.
    Cletus is dismissing your silly, pompous bigotry every bit as much as I am. He's simply doing it in shorter sentences.
    "If you get hurt, hurt 'em back. If you get killed...walk it off." - Captain America in Captain America: Civil War

    "The guy who kills me... I hope he does it because he hates my guts, not because it's his job." - Sonny (Al Pacino) in Dog Day Afternoon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Cletus is dismissing your silly, pompous bigotry every bit as much as I am. He's simply doing it in shorter sentences.
    Bigotry? Lol WTF does that even mean? Well, if he is he's much less triggered by it than you are. Like I said, take notes.
    Last edited by Mister D; 11-25-2020 at 05:16 PM.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sybil Ludington View Post
    The Freedom From Religion Foundation, which advocates for atheists, agnostics, and non-theists, has persuaded a Kansas school district to discontinue their participation in Samaritan’s Purse’s ‘Operation Christmas Child‘ because of the program’s strong Christian beliefs.


    According to The Freedom From Religion Foundation’s website, after a school’s staff member reached out to the atheistic watchdog organization, they filed a complaint with the school’s Superintendent Tony Helfrich.


    The complaint stated that the staff member reported multiple “egregious constitutional violations” that have occurred at Liberty Middle School in Pratt, Kansas. The Freedom From Religion Foundation’s attorney, Christopher Line, cited that “Vice Principal Ron Hill has been using his position to promote and endorse his personal religious beliefs to students.”


    Attorney Line continues:



    Continued:
    https://christiannewsnow.com/atheist...9786-744076513

    A public school's activities should reflect the culture of their community and children should not be forced to participate in anything that violates their religious beiefs. So unless this is a non-theist community or children are graded on Christian prayer during the project it should be retained.

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    Chris (11-26-2020)

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