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Thread: Why Lisa Montgomery Shouldn't be Executed

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    Why Lisa Montgomery Shouldn't be Executed

    On Dec. 16, 2004, Ms. Montgomery drove to Skidmore, Mo., where she strangled a pregnant woman named Bobbie Jo Stinnett, then sliced open her belly and took the baby to the home she shared with her husband, Kevin, in Kansas. The baby survived....

    Ms. Montgomery has bipolar disorder, temporal lobe epilepsy, complex post-traumatic stress disorder, dissociative disorder, psychosis, traumatic brain injury and most likely fetal alcohol syndrome. She was born into a family rife with mental illness, including schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and depression. Ms. Montgomery’s mother, Judy Shaughnessy, claimed to have been sexually assaulted by her father....

    The jury never saw the M.R.I. scans of Ms. Montgomery’s brain, which showed tissue loss in her parietal lobe and limbic structures, and larger-than-normal ventricles, which indicate brain damage. They never saw the PET scans, which showed an abnormal pattern of cerebral metabolism indicative of brain dysfunction. These areas can be affected by traumatic experiences and are responsible for regulating social and emotional behavior and memory....

    ...On an Adverse Childhood Experiences test, Ms. Montgomery scored nine out of 10 — a number that coincides with the most extreme forms of torture. On a different test, the Global Assessment of Functioning, given by one of her therapists a year or so before the crime, Ms. Montgomery scored a 48. A normal score is 80 to 100. Such a score points to “severe impairment” in daily activities. (In prison, it took Ms. Montgomery an entire month to learn to make her bed according to the guidelines.)...

    ...The prosecutor, Matt Whitworth, an assistant U.S. attorney in Kansas City, Mo., used the famous Alan Dershowitz phrase “abuse excuse” in his closing argument. But what Mr. Whitworth and so many others refuse to understand is how abuse is cumulative. Traumatic brain injuries are cumulative. Punch after punch, kick after kick, rape after rape. Injured brains do not heal like injured bodies...

    ...That the Department of Justice is ordering executions in the middle of a pandemic is itself cause for alarm. Since the Supreme Court has prohibited the execution of people who are mentally incompetent, Ms. Montgomery is entitled to be assessed by a mental health professional close to the date of her execution — something that might not be possible during the coronavirus outbreak. No one can visit her at her prison in Texas except for her immediate family and her lawyers, two of whom are based in Nashville and are recovering from Covid-19. The third lawyer is based in Kansas City and cannot travel to Texas because of the risks posed by the virus.
    Why Lisa Montgomery Shouldn't be Executed - NYTimes

    If you'd like to read about the extensive abuse and sex trafficking, both as a child and an adult, you will have to read the article or check out Cornell's website which has similar information. Alternatively, I have the petition for a writ of certiorari which has a ton of information, also. I have seen and read a lot of cases, and I found it shocking and upsetting, quite frankly.

    That aside, I am questioning whether it is ethical to execute someone with this level of impairment.

    Her ACE score is 9/10 (4/10 is considered to be very high), her GAF is 48, she has a mood disorder with psychosis, a dissociative disorder, a trauma disorder (CPTSD is only recognized in the ICD codes and not by the DSM but it is PTSD with personality changes due to repeated and chronic abuse), and probable fetal alcohol syndrome. The description of her neurobiology? It's shocking, but it's also what you'd expect when you combine brain injuries, exposure to alcohol in utero, and trauma. At the time of the crime, she had pseudocyesis and was actively delusional (and likely in a dissociative state) in terms of thinking she was actually pregnant.

    As a result of the standard set in Daubert, the MRI was excluded as evidence of the abuse and trauma. The government's expert claimed she was malingering (faking) but there is a problem with this. The tests used to assess for psychopathology (MMPI, MCMI, PAI, etc.) have validity indices that are next to impossible to cheat. I have successfully done it because I am training to administer them, and the level of knowledge needed to do so is actually astounding. Those validity indices often are sensitive to very extreme psychopathology - severe psychosis and severe neuroses (mood/anxiety). Someone who experienced non-stop abuse from day one with genetic and biological factors is going to have a lot of problems so we can safely say she's going to have at least some psychopathology which would be identifiable during the SCID or other interview. All psychological tests are sensitive to individuals who have either a broad set of problems or very extreme ones - you cannot distinguish between faking bad and just being really, really psychologically ill. These evaluations are also super sensitive when someone's identity or sense of identity is unstable (psychosis/delusions, dissociation).

    This does not change what she did, but it should change whether the death penalty is even on the table. She may not be NGRI, but honestly, this is worse than being cognitively impaired (intellectual disability). This should also be considered cruel and unusual.
    FYIWDWYTM

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    If the case gets to SCOTUS they may stop the execution for the reasons you outline above.
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    If she's truly mentally disturbed to that extent, then I agree she shouldn't be executed. That pains me to say, because what she did was truly horrific, and both the victim and her family deserve both justice and vengeance, but it wouldn't be right to execute someone like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    If the case gets to SCOTUS they may stop the execution for the reasons you outline above.
    I don't think so - it might set a dangerous precedent. What level of psychopathology is enough to mean someone should not be executed? You cannot really measure it the same way that you can cognitive ability/intelligence.

    Maybe they should halt it for now and a discussion should take place about the issue. In cases like hers, it just seems so incredibly unethical and while she is responsible for her crimes, I do not think she would have committed them without her lengthy and disturbing biopsychosocial history (which she isn't responsible for).
    FYIWDWYTM

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    carolina73's Avatar Senior Member
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    Would the fear be that is she was declared to not be responsible that she could spend just a few years in treatment and then released?

    I imagine the system is used to hearing every defense tried and have a hard time not dismissing the claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    Her ACE score is 9/10 (4/10 is considered to be very high), her GAF is 48, she has a mood disorder with psychosis, a dissociative disorder, a trauma disorder (CPTSD is only recognized in the ICD codes and not by the DSM but it is PTSD with personality changes due to repeated and chronic abuse), and probable fetal alcohol syndrome. The description of her neurobiology? It's shocking, but it's also what you'd expect when you combine brain injuries, exposure to alcohol in utero, and trauma. At the time of the crime, she had pseudocyesis and was actively delusional (and likely in a dissociative state) in terms of thinking she was actually pregnant.
    I think she's more of a liar than anything. I read some of the documentation and she willingly underwent sterilization -- she knew she wasn't pregnant. It was just a ruse to steal another woman's baby, and killing the woman in the process didn't concern her one bit. I'm sorry she was abused as a kid, but being abused is not a defense for cold-blooded murder.

    I don't care one way or the other if she's executed--the family of the victim should get to decide.
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    I tend to think of executions more as disposal rather than justice. Certainly never revenge.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    Would the fear be that is she was declared to not be responsible that she could spend just a few years in treatment and then released?

    I imagine the system is used to hearing every defense tried and have a hard time not dismissing the claims.
    No. Her defense of NGRI did not succeed. This is a sentencing issue, not one about the verdict.

    NGRI is actually super rare as a defense - I think it's less than 1% of cases, and only successful in about a quarter of cases.
    FYIWDWYTM

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    I think she's more of a liar than anything. I read some of the documentation and she willingly underwent sterilization -- she knew she wasn't pregnant. It was just a ruse to steal another woman's baby, and killing the woman in the process didn't concern her one bit. I'm sorry she was abused as a kid, but being abused is not a defense for cold-blooded murder.

    I don't care one way or the other if she's executed--the family of the victim should get to decide.
    I encourage you to read some of the links in the OP because she did not "willingly" undergo sterilization (her mother, one of her abusers, coerced her), she did think she was pregnant because she was delusional, and even if she those two things were not true it is troubling that this individual is the one being put to death when the 80 other women who have done this exact same crime are not sentenced to death. The death penalty is unequally applied.
    FYIWDWYTM

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    I am not convinced the death penalty should ever be carried out. Its not an issue of "what if the party is innocent". Its a question of just what is accomplished by doing so. Its also the issue of the death penalty not being applied equally in all cases. How can you justify taking one life as retribution for murder for example, but not another one for the same or similar crime?

    On the other side of the coin just what do you do to someone who commits a crime like this? Life without parole? Then they murder someone else while in prison. Then what? \

    Given this woman's history of abuse and mental illness can anyone say with certainty she can ever be "cured" or should she be held away from society forever?

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