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Thread: Egocentric victimhood v. Systemic Victimhood

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Just another left wing "study" with a preconceived outcome, achieved by asking leading questions. Dismissed out of hand.
    Indeed, the study is pointedly political. And that alone makes it questionable. Seems those who see hypocrisy everywhere (but themselves) appreciate the study.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    countryboy's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Indeed, the study is pointedly political. And that alone makes it questionable. Seems those who see hypocrisy everywhere (but themselves) appreciate the study.
    It never ceases to amaze me how seemingly intelligent people, can be so gullible. Or are they? Hmmmm...
    Cutesy Time is OVER

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me how seemingly intelligent people, can be so gullible. Or are they? Hmmmm...
    I wonder if this all ties into critical theory.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I wonder if this all ties into critical theory.
    No normal person can look at critical race theory, and consider it a valid point of view. I suspect a lot of libs who push that crap know it's bull$#@!.
    Cutesy Time is OVER

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    ‘Why Me?’ The Role of Perceived Victimhood in American Politics, the actual study, actually says "That victimhood plays such a central role in politics is not necessarily troubling." And their testing gave examples of both Trump and Biden appealing to victimhood.

    Their conclusion is something slightly different:

    Rather than the mere appeal to victimhood, it is the lengths one is willing to go in order to mobilize victimhood that poses the greatest potential normative threat to a civilized democratic political system. Speaking historically, it is precisely a feeling of hyper-victimization that has caused people to turn to authoritarian regimes for relief. As Converse (1964) aptly observed, it was a combination of a lack of political sophistication – a state that persists among the American mass public—and particular political conditions (e.g., mass unemployment, rising debts for rural farmers, skyrocketing inflation) that resulted in widespread support for the Nazi Party. This support, for many, had little to do with the particular principles at the center of Nazi ideology, of which the unsophisticated and uneducated mass public had little understanding. Rather, it was the appeal of Nazi rhetoric and policy promises to a sense of victimhood (e.g., a moratorium on debt, restoration of German greatness) that mobilized mass support.

    Of course, we do not suggest that all attempts to inflame victimhood will have such dire consequences. The role of victimhood in politics has taken many forms over the course of history. For example, the Civil War is oftentimes partially attributed to feelings of victimization among southerners. Examples of the role of victimhood in American politics can also be found in the William Jennings Bryan’s populist movement, which relied on appeals to the victimization of “the common man,” and FDR’s rhetoric promoting the New Deal, which was, at least partially, based on the idea that everyday people were suffering at the hands of forces beyond their control. Thus, appeals to a sense of victimhood need not produce normatively troubling results.
    In short, everyone does it but some take it further, not Trump or Biden (so far) but Nazis, William Jennings Bryan, FDR in their appeals for authoritarian government.

    It seems to me appeals to systemic racism and identity politics on the left are aim at creating big, centralized, authoritarian government.

    Democracy is but a step away from totalitarianism.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    No normal person can look at critical race theory, and consider it a valid point of view. I suspect a lot of libs who push that crap know it's bull$#@!.
    It seems to appeal to two sorts, one, those who want to elevate a personal grievance to racial, gender, etc levels, and two, those who seek power over others if only to use it to insult.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    Egocentric victimhood is linked to support for Trump, study finds

    And here is the link to the actual study: "Why me?" The Role of Perceived Victimhood in American Politics

    This is very interesting, although not surprising. Trump himself constantly claimed to be a victim of quite a bit in his speeches. I think it is interesting that the actual journal article states that politics is often very focused on victimhood and that it is how politicians appeal to voters - someone has to be the victim of something, it doesn't matter which portion of the spectrum is being appealed to. Manipulative, but a good strategy. From the Nazis to William Jennings Bryan or FDR or Trump, you see the ability of the politician to say, "Hey, you are a victim because of X" and it gets votes.

    Anyway, a good read, but obviously the research has issues/limitations. Interesting to think about, though.
    It is an interesting study, but I don't put a whole lot of faith into it. Just as being a minority does not necessarily predispose a person to being steeped in systemic victimhood, neither does supporting Trump necessarily mean the supporter is suffering from egocentric victimhood.

    Take me, for instance. I've never been a victim in my entire life. I've had females try to talk me into thinking I was a victim of the big, bad, male world, but I never bought it for an instance.

    In my opinion, everyone gets exactly what they deserve, and if something bad happens to me -- I've laid the groundwork for it, hence it's because of me, not in spite of me.

    But, that's just me.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    I was told both publicly and privately on this forum that the delusions of oppression and victimization common among Black Americans were valid simply because the perception existed. Moreover, I was told that if you're not black you are in no position to question the validity of those perceptions. Has that changed? I also find the focus on politicians interesting when the American media is by far the most effective and pervasive purveyor of victimhood in contemporary America hands down.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    It is an interesting study, but I don't put a whole lot of faith into it. Just as being a minority does not necessarily predispose a person to being steeped in systemic victimhood, neither does supporting Trump necessarily mean the supporter is suffering from egocentric victimhood.

    Take me, for instance. I've never been a victim in my entire life. I've had females try to talk me into thinking I was a victim of the big, bad, male world, but I never bought it for an instance.

    In my opinion, everyone gets exactly what they deserve, and if something bad happens to me -- I've laid the groundwork for it, hence it's because of me, not in spite of me.

    But, that's just me.
    That's you and I suspect the vast majority of the 75 million Americans who voted for Donald Trump.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Only thing I feel I'm a systemic victim of is taxation!
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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