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Thread: 'Progressive' church claims: Parts of Bible wrong because it isn't the 'Word of God'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Yes, I've read it and cited it multiple times but there are no where near 30,000 Christian denominations or anything like the division in Christianity that figure was cited to demonstrate. Is there a problem in Protestantism as it relates to private interpretation? Has this broken the unity of the Western Church? Yes, I believe so but that's neither here nor there.
    I think that it's relevant to the OP and the ongoing debate as to whose version of biblical interpretation represents the "truth".
    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    I think that it's relevant to the OP and the ongoing debate as to whose version of biblical interpretation represents the "truth".
    But it's not relevant to Bennie's demonstrably incorrect claim. That's all I was discussing.

    As for the debate, I'm not sure what you mean. Which debate exactly?
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
    You don't believe the Bible at all. Christians believe the OT and NT. Just curious, why do you question as if you know something more than Him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdon View Post
    There are parables. Christ used them to make a point. So did the OT writers.

    Not really. Wait. I'll get you the scripture.


    The reason why Jesus taught in parables was not to explain spiritual truths to the crowds, but to keep spiritual truths from the crowds.


    Why Did Jesus Teach in Parables?



    Observe that after giving the Parable of the Soils, which is recorded in all three of the Synoptic Gospels (cf. Matt. 13:3–23; Mark 4:2–32; Luke 8:4–15), and before He explained its meaning, Jesus was asked by His disciples, “Why do You speak to the crowds in parables?” (Matt. 13:10).

    The precise reason why the apostles asked this question is not stated; however, it may have been the case that the disciples were afraid the people did not understand Jesus’ teachings (cf. Mark 4:13). Regardless of the rationale for the disciples’ question, Christ’s answer about His use of parables is both surprising and instructive.


    Jesus replied that He taught in parables for this reason: “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matt. 13:11).

    In other words, the reason why Jesus taught in parables was not to explain spiritual truths to the crowds, but to keep spiritual truths from the crowds. Lest we doubt or misunderstand Christ’s answer here, Jesus noted that the veiling of spiritual truths from the unbelieving crowds is actually a fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy given at Isa. 6:9–10. Note Luke’s account of this narrative, as he refers to Jesus’ citation of Isa. 6:9, and writes,

    And Jesus said to the disciples, ‘To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, [so] that, “Seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand”’ (Luke 8:10; cf. Mark 4:11–12).


    Yet this invites the question: Why would Jesus purposefully veil truth from unbelievers? By way of response we can note that the condition of the unbelieving crowds was both a natural result of their own rejection of Christ’s message, and a divine response of judicial blinding on account of their sin (cf. 2 Thess. 2:11–12).

    Indeed, whenever spiritual truth is communicated—be it plainly or in parables—acceptance will always result in understanding and growth (cf. Rom. 3:20; 10:17), while rejecting truth will always result in confusion and hardness of heart (cf. Ps. 81:12; Rom. 1:24). This idea is communicated all throughout Scripture.
    Last edited by Calypso Jones; 02-22-2021 at 07:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    But it's not relevant to Bennie's demonstrably incorrect claim. That's all I was discussing.

    As for the debate, I'm not sure what you mean. Which debate exactly?
    Every denomination and even independent church interprets scripture differently. The OP and ensuing discussion illustrates the classic assertion that my faith is the truth and your faith is a lie (I think apostasy and God haters was mentioned). One denomination or church preaches literalism and others take a more nuanced view, yet all consider themselves Christians. This begs the question, what does Christianity mean? Is it belief in Christ and his fundamental message or is it adherence to dogma and if the latter, whose dogma?
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    https://thepoliticalforums.com/threa...26#post3190226


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Every denomination and even independent church interprets scripture differently. The OP and ensuing discussion illustrates the classic assertion that my faith is the truth and your faith is a lie (I think apostasy and God haters was mentioned). One denomination or church preaches literalism and others take a more nuanced view, yet all consider themselves Christians. This begs the question, what does Christianity mean? Is it belief in Christ and his fundamental message or is it adherence to dogma and if the latter, whose dogma?
    The question doesn't really make sense. Belief in Christ and his message is dogma. It's also what defines a Christian.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    The question doesn't really make sense. Belief in Christ and his message is dogma. It's also what defines a Christian.
    "Belief in Christ and his message" is one, no doubt even the most important part of Christian dogma; that doesn't mean it's the beginning and end of the matter. Ask (if you could) the members of the various "heretical" Christian sects who were persecuted and frequently murdered by other Christians, from relatively early in Church history into at least the 18th Century. I count among my own ancestors both Swiss Anabaptists and French Huguenots, who were persecuted mercilessly for refusing to follow all of the dogmatic proclamations of the Catholic Church - especially those dealing with infant baptism and the authority of the Pope. Dogmatic beliefs aside from the deity of Christ and the truth of his Gospel abound in many denominations; the older the denomination, the greater the number of dogmatic beliefs and the more seriously they tend to be taken by their adherents. Simply believing in Jesus and accepting him as your Lord and Savior doesn't cut it for everyone - not by a long shot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    The question doesn't really make sense. Belief in Christ and his message is dogma. It's also what defines a Christian.
    I meant dogma in its more universal sense.
    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    "Belief in Christ and his message" is one, no doubt even the most important part of Christian dogma; that doesn't mean it's the beginning and end of the matter. Ask (if you could) the members of the various "heretical" Christian sects who were persecuted and frequently murdered by other Christians, from relatively early in Church history into at least the 18th Century. I count among my own ancestors both Swiss Anabaptists and French Huguenots, who were persecuted mercilessly for refusing to follow all of the dogmatic proclamations of the Catholic Church - especially those dealing with infant baptism and the authority of the Pope. Dogmatic beliefs aside from the deity of Christ and the truth of his Gospel abound in many denominations; the older the denomination, the greater the number of dogmatic beliefs and the more seriously they tend to be taken by their adherents. Simply believing in Jesus and accepting him as your Lord and Savior doesn't cut it for everyone - not by a long shot.
    Something along the lines of "someone who believes in Christ and his message" is what you, I or virtually anyone else would say if asked what a Christian is. Secondly, the reason why heresy provoked such strong reactions was because it was within the church. Non-believers/non-Christians cannot be heretics. Nor can someone who once embraced the faith but came to reject it entirely. Anyway, the theological division implied by 30,000 denominations simply doesn't exist. These attempts (not a swipe at you) to get into the weeds are only to salvage this misconception of Christian diversity.

    The Catholic Church is almost 2,000 years old and has about 250 or so dogmas. Infant baptism, BTW, is not among them.
    Last edited by Mister D; 02-23-2021 at 11:06 AM.
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