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Thread: State Power Is a Fearsome Power

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    Ethereal's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Back to the topic of the thread, though, it has always seemed to me that some folks reserve their outrage and resentment toward "State power" for the federal government. Any civil authority, down to your town council or mayor's office, can represent "the State". Just as the federal government does frequently practice overreach and seek to extend its power over citizens in ways the Founders didn't intend - and you'll get no argument from me on that score - state and local governments are also sometimes guilty of infringing on those rights and freedoms recognized by the Constitution. When this happens I sometimes hear the idea of "state's rights" or of "local control" invoked, as though their status as lesser jurisdictions somehow absolved their legislatures, executives and bureaucrats from having to respect their citizens' rights as Americans. Infringement is infringement.
    Rights do not come from citizenship or from charters, they are natural and inalienable. Any violation of those rights, at any scale, is unjust. And I never argued or suggested otherwise.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God's service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Standing Wolf's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Rights do not come from citizenship or from charters, they are natural and inalienable. Any violation of those rights, at any scale, is unjust. And I never argued or suggested otherwise.
    That's why I make a conscious effort never to refer to our rights and freedoms as Americans as having been "given" or "granted" by the Constitution - but as being recognized in that document.

    My question pertains to "some folks" appearing to give local and state governments a pass on violating or infringing the rights of Americans who happen to live within their boundaries. I have in mind a member or two who have - at least it seemed to me - expressed that tendency.

    More on point with regard to your OP, I'd be interested in your take on what I wrote in Post #18. The more I think about it, the more I agree with myself that Americans have become far more cynical about government authority and generally readier to question and even defy it. The public's reaction to the Covid-related mandates - business closings, mask wearing, social distancing - is not typical of the trend because people don't want to die and most are prepared to go along with the State-imposed restrictions as a result.
    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

    "If you get hurt, hurt 'em back. If you get killed...walk it off." - Captain America in Captain America: Civil War


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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Ethereal's OP, like so many of the forum's current threads, equates compliance with government directives aimed at reducing the spread of a virus that has killed more than a half a million Americans in the last year with "less skepticism toward state power", and I just can't take that leap.
    Thus proving my point.

    You simply repeat the conventional wisdom, which comes straight from the government and from corrupt media outlets, as if it were handed down to us by some deity.

    Are people more willing to follow a directive like mask-wearing or social distancing than they would have been thirty, fifty, seventy years ago? Hard to say.
    Those "directives" are outrageous affronts to the most basic liberties.

    I do recall, however, the "duck and cover" drills in the public schools during the Cold War era. And I'm not old enough to remember when 120,000 U.S. residents, more than 74,000 of them citizens, were sent to internment camps because of their racial ancestry - with very little in the way of public criticism arising - but I've read about it.
    FDR was a tyrant. And modern politicians are taking a page out of his book.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God's service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    That's why I make a conscious effort never to refer to our rights and freedoms as Americans as having been "given" or "granted" by the Constitution - but as being recognized in that document.

    My question pertains to "some folks" appearing to give local and state governments a pass on violating or infringing the rights of Americans who happen to live within their boundaries. I have in mind a member or two who have - at least it seemed to me - expressed that tendency.
    The united States is not a nation, it is federation of sovereign States who ceded limited, enumerated powers to a federal government. All powers not delegated to the federal government are reserved to the States, per the tenth amendment. One can argue in favor of the principle of federalism without endorsing everything that happens under the auspices of State and local government.

    More on point with regard to your OP, I'd be interested in your take on what I wrote in Post #18. The more I think about it, the more I agree with myself that Americans have become far more cynical about government authority and generally readier to question and even defy it.
    Some Americans are more skeptical. Some are less. My problem is with those who have become less skeptical. Either they have turned their backs on their heritage or they had no real connection to America's heritage in the first place.

    The public's reaction to the Covid-related mandates - business closings, mask wearing, social distancing - is not typical of the trend because people don't want to die and most are prepared to go along with the State-imposed restrictions as a result.
    Every bastard tyrant in history claimed to be acting in the interests of safety or public health or national defense or some combination thereof. Americans are supposed to know better. Americans are not supposed to just blindly accept whatever rationale they're given by those in power.

    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    --Patrick Henry
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God's service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    A large reason for this is education in the US. It has become infected with various theories hatched at the Frankfurt School such as critical theory and critical race theory. And others. These theories are derived from Marxism.

    They identify problems and they have solutions- government action and the demand for government action.

    Has the feds intruded into education a trend furthered by Bush's "every child left behind" education about the Constitution and Civics seemed tpo decrease.

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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    One of the worst trends I've observed over recent years is the tendency of some people to exercise less and less skepticism towards state power. This is especially bizarre to observe in a country that was founded on radical skepticism towards state power. I mean, it would be one thing if this lack of skepticism came from people born into servitude or dependency, then you could forgive them for not knowing any better. But Americans are supposed to know better. Our own ancestors studied this issue intensely and based their revolution on it. Although, for many so-called Americans, the term "our ancestors" may just be a term of art, since an increasingly large percentage of the population, including its "white" population, has no real ancestral connection to the founding of this country. And perhaps that is the problem? Many so-called Americans lack a strong tradition of freedom and independence. They come from more subdued stock.


    It is amazing to me that central government loving ultra libs used states rights to lock us down ( unconstitutionally so) and further their agenda. Can these really be the same people that then want the states to cow tow to the feds on literally every other issue from which bathroom we use to gun laws, voting regulations and God knows what else?

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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    It's funny how you accuse me of inventing things when I point out the underlying racism of a lot of your threads and yet you keep posting these "America was better when it was whiter" threads.

    How is his thread racist? Did you know that there are alot of southerners who have both slave owner and slave DNA? This may include our current VP. Are those folks racist against themselves?
    Last edited by donttread; 02-28-2021 at 09:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Back to the topic of the thread, though, it has always seemed to me that some folks reserve their outrage and resentment toward "State power" for the federal government. Any civil authority, down to your town council or mayor's office, can represent "the State". Just as the federal government does frequently practice overreach and seek to extend its power over citizens in ways the Founders didn't intend - and you'll get no argument from me on that score - state and local governments are also sometimes guilty of infringing on those rights and freedoms recognized by the Constitution. When this happens I sometimes hear the idea of "state's rights" or of "local control" invoked, as though their status as lesser jurisdictions somehow absolved their legislatures, executives and bureaucrats from having to respect their citizens' rights as Americans. Infringement is infringement.
    Yes those are all governements which are bound by the Constitution and they often violate rights. Sometimes Municipalities can be even more intrusive than the feds. For example telling people where, on their own property , they can park their cars or how high they can allow their own grass to grow. So I am not one who reserves my outrage for the feds and neither are organizations like the Institute for Justice.
    Wolf as you know the state's do have more rights than the feds although they should not be violating the Constitution. The feds have enumerated powers outside of which they are not supposed to operate. So that ground between the enumerated powers and the Constitutionality falls to the states and are what people are referring to as State's rights and to smaller governments by extension. It's a constant power grab/struggle even at the local level. Imagine rules, projects, grants or other things that involve federal, state , county and or local government . Imagine the inherent disfunction? For example welfare and the inefficiencies so many cooks build into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    It's funny how you accuse me of inventing things when I point out the underlying racism of a lot of your threads and yet you keep posting these "America was better when it was whiter" threads.
    I have NEVER seen a thread by Ethereal where she advocated "America was better when it was whiter". What a load of crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdon View Post
    bull$#@!.
    [/COLOR]

    Wow! That's so enlightening...

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