The Religion and Philosophy Room
It is a shame you cannot have a rational discussion. Just like Jet. Why don't you two figure it out. This is boring.Originally Posted by MisterVeritis
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It is a shame you cannot have a rational discussion. Just like Jet. Why don't you two figure it out. This is boring.
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler
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I believe you are the problem.
Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.
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So you don't know what the hell you're talking about again.
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All scientific knowledge and mathematics exists whether a god exists or doesn't exist. Scientific knowledge includes a significant amount
of truth. Therefore, truth exists sans God. No scientific field invokes the supernatural.
Last edited by skepticalmike; 03-08-2021 at 12:23 AM.
Standing Wolf (03-08-2021)
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Perhaps you need to define what you mean by truth. Nominally truth is that which is in accord with fact or reality. As we discover more and understand more, we know more "truth". Knowledge is truth. You are a professed atheist, yet you seem to be taking the position that there is no rational explanation of truth without a supreme creator. However, there is so much more truth out there than can be gleaned from faith in the existence of a supreme being. Our journey as a species is the quest for truth. It is what drives us.
In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.
"The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
Mahatma Gandhi
Standing Wolf (03-08-2021)
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All science is tentative, incomplete, and probabilistic. It's pseudoscience f not falsifiable.
All math is theoretical and axiomatic. A straight line is not the shortest distance between two points in nonEuclidean Geometry.
You've sidestepped truth with knowledge.
Also to take as premise X if God or not, and conclude therefore X sans God is illogical.
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler
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That was for the OP to define. He cannot.
Knowledge is justified true belief.
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler
Advisor
When I say knowledge, I mean that which is either empirical or if based on theory, at least conditionally true i.e. cannot be falsified, given the same conditions and/or within the scope of our mathematical/scientific understanding. I do not include "knowledge" based on simple popular belief.
In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.
"The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
Mahatma Gandhi
Senior Member
I have to disagree on that single point. Truth and reality are not necessarily related to knowledge. Knowledge is subject to change, and the knowledge of one generation is vastly different from the knowledge of another.
Knowledge is the perception of reality, and knowledge is anti-science at its foundation. Science, for example, can arrive at certain "facts" about a subject, but once someone takes those facts and claims knowledge, they've closed the door to further science, hence, they've become anti-science.
Reality exists sans God, sans knowledge, sans faith, and sans perception. Reality simply is.
There is scientific evidence that our world is vibrational -- that our senses are translating vibration into smell, taste, sight, touch. If that specific science were true, then it would exist independent of knowledge to the contrary. It would exist whether or not humans grasped the understanding and reality of it--or not.
That's the most interesting thing about life, I think.
""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw
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Some believers claim that gods are required for truths to exist.
Is it true? I don't believe so.
Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.
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