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Thread: The rise of God-like beings

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Religious faith can do great things, and of course it's a comfort to many, many people. Where I personally draw the line is when someone who believes in a god or gods expects me to agree with them that their belief is objectively reasonable. I am and have always been most respectful of folks who were Believers, as long as they do not presume to tell me that, for example, morality and ethical behavior do not and can not exist without reference to their deity.

    BTW, you're the only one, I think, whom I've ever seen describe themselves as an "agnostic atheist". I've always thought of agnosticism as "not knowing" whether there was a God, and atheism as being a denial of God. How is it possible to be both?
    You don't have to agree that my belief in God is reasonable. You should just have a reason for thinking it's not if you wish to say such things publicly on a message board. To date, I haven't seen a serious critique of religious belief on this forum at least as it pertains to a belief in God.

    Anyway, my deity has never been relevant to the conversation regarding objective morality or inherent rights. It was simply a philosophical discussion in which we explored how one accounts for these things if atheism is true. In short, we haven't or at least not yet. That's where we left off. No one presumed to tell you anything. I made the argument that we cannot account for objective morality or inherent rights if atheism is true and I have repeatedly explained my position to you. For whatever reason, you insist on being offended and are, one again, lashing out at strawmen.
    Last edited by Mister D; 03-14-2021 at 04:30 PM.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    As I explained, "we can't know whether God exists or not [agnostoc], so I choose nonbelief [atheist]." An agnostic theist is one who holds we can't know whether God exists or not, and chooses belief. Ecclesiastes 8:14-17. Aquinas too.

    Denial of God is, to me, antitheism. Christopher Hitchens claimed this view.

    The prefix a- means without. See Ephesians 2:12.
    No; you are a contradiction. You cannot be unsure and sure at the same time.

    Nice try at cleaning up though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    You don't have to agree that my belief in God is reasonable. You should just have a reason for thinking it's not if you wish to say such things publicly on a message board. To date, I haven't seen a serious critique of religious belief on this forum at least as it pertains to a belief in God.

    Anyway, my deity has never been relevant to the conversation regarding objective morality or inherent rights. It was simply a philosophical discussion in which we explored how one accounts for these things if atheism is true. In short, we haven't or at least not yet. That's where we left off. No one presumed to tell you anything. I made the argument that we cannot account for objective morality or inherent rights if atheism is true and I have repeatedly explained my position to you. For whatever reason, you insist on being offended and are, one again, lashing out at strawmen.
    Objective truth in morality comes from a decision based in free will. A charitable gift of some food is done all the time without appealing to God and was so in man's beginning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Objective truth in morality comes from a decision based in free will. A charitable gift of some food is done all the time without appealing to God and was so in man's beginning.
    No it doesn't. And your example isn't even on point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    No it doesn't. And your example isn't even on point.
    Sure it is, and yes it does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    No it doesn't. And your example isn't even on point.
    You know, that was actually a helpful comment in a way. I guess part of the problem was that the meaning of "objective" was not understood.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    You don't have to agree that my belief in God is reasonable. You should just have a reason for thinking it's not if you wish to say such things publicly on a message board. To date, I haven't seen a serious critique of religious belief on this forum at least as it pertains to a belief in God.

    Anyway, my deity has never been relevant to the conversation regarding objective morality or inherent rights. It was simply a philosophical discussion in which we explored how one accounts for these things if atheism is true. In short, we haven't or at least not yet. That's where we left off. No one presumed to tell you anything. I made the argument that we cannot account for objective morality or inherent rights if atheism is true and I have repeatedly explained my position to you. For whatever reason, you insist on being offended and are, one again, lashing out at strawmen.
    First, I am neither offended or lashing out.

    Second, a "serious critique of religious belief" doesn't have to be some deep, philosophical treatise that quotes dead Europeans; religious belief is, ultimately, superstition and superstition is rooted in ignorance and credulity.

    You might as well be asking for a serious refutation of the Easter Bunny.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    First, I am neither offended or lashing out.

    Second, a "serious critique of religious belief" doesn't have to be some deep, philosophical treatise that quotes dead Europeans; religious belief is, ultimately, superstition and superstition is rooted in ignorance and credulity.

    You might as well be asking for a serious refutation of the Easter Bunny.
    Of course you are. You just said you are respectful until someone tells you that moral or ethical behavior cannot exist without reference to their deity. Now it's true that no one actually said that and you consistently either misinterpret or intentionally distort opposing points of view but it's a clear reference to our discussion. If you insist on being involved, stop being caught unprepared for these discussions and holding a grudge after you inevitably lose. That said, I suspect that you're overcompensating for your former fundamentalist self. I don't take it personally. You're kind of a sad spectacle.

    No, it can come from you but it hasn't and it doesn't appear that it ever will. I'd ask you to support your latest claim but I know you won't. Anyway, I see that you avoided the point of my reply. That was probably a good idea because, as usual, when you can't respond to the challenges of religious people you resort to demeaning and insulting them. Let me know when you can account for objective morality.
    Last edited by Mister D; 03-14-2021 at 07:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    You know, that was actually a helpful comment in a way. I guess part of the problem was that the meaning of "objective" was not understood.
    You don't know what "objective" means? YOU don't know truth sans God??

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    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Objective truth in morality comes from a decision based in free will. A charitable gift of some food is done all the time without appealing to God and was so in man's beginning.
    "Objective truth in morality"?

    What is truth?
    What is objective truth?
    What is morality?

    What is objective morality (for Mr. D.)?

    And what is god?
    Last edited by MisterVeritis; 03-14-2021 at 06:53 PM.
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