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Thread: Gender Identity and the Extreme Right

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    I'm not accusing either of you of being Nazis, you know? No need for this game of terminological keep-away.

    But look, the fact is that, by most people's definition, Nazism is definitely a far-right ideology owing to the severity of its racist attitudes. Left wing and right wing politics are distinguished primarily by their attitudes toward equality. A set of politics belongs to the left to the extent that it advocates equal relationships between people (and perhaps also between human beings and nature). A set of politics is right wing to the extent that it advocates for institutionalizing unequal relationships between people or exterminating "inferior" groups. That's how people generally think about it. In fact, to this end, I could also make an argument about the supposed left wing credentials of Hitler's top-down idea of "socialism", but as much is really beside the point here. The point is that is that Nazis are people who only use and twist economic populism to service extraordinarily backward, often genocidal attitudes toward people of other races. They use feudal imagery and often believe in slavery, rape, and genocide as matters of principle, etc. If you don't believe me, here's the Wikipedia article defining the term "far-right politics". It's NOT just my opinion! That's just how politicos have broadly chosen to define it.



    You're right in the sense that, Representative Steve King notwithstanding, the relationship between the Republican Party and the neo-Nazi movement is essentially non-existent, and also in the sense the American neo-Nazi movement opposes American constitutionalism on principle. But it's absence from the mainstream of the conservative scene in this country doesn't mean it's not a conservative movement. It definitely is. Neo-Nazis define themselves as conservatives. Reactionaries actually is the more common term they use. That's their opinion of themselves, not my hot take.
    It is impossible to educate you.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    I'm not accusing either of you of being Nazis, you know? No need for this game of terminological keep-away.

    But look, the fact is that, by most people's definition, Nazism is definitely a far-right ideology owing to the severity of its racist attitudes. Left wing and right wing politics are distinguished primarily by their attitudes toward equality. A set of politics belongs to the left to the extent that it advocates equal relationships between people (and perhaps also between human beings and nature). A set of politics is right wing to the extent that it advocates for institutionalizing unequal relationships between people or exterminating "inferior" groups. That's how people generally think about it. In fact, to this end, I could also make an argument about the supposed left wing credentials of Hitler's top-down idea of "socialism", but as much is really beside the point here. The point is that is that Nazis are people who only use and twist economic populism to service extraordinarily backward, often genocidal attitudes toward people of other races. They use feudal imagery and often believe in slavery, rape, and genocide as matters of principle, etc. If you don't believe me, here's the Wikipedia article defining the term "far-right politics". It's NOT just my opinion! That's just how politicos have broadly chosen to define it.



    You're right in the sense that, Representative Steve King notwithstanding, the relationship between the Republican Party and the neo-Nazi movement is essentially non-existent, and also in the sense the American neo-Nazi movement opposes American constitutionalism on principle. But it's absence from the mainstream of the conservative scene in this country doesn't mean it's not a conservative movement. It definitely is. Neo-Nazis define themselves as conservatives. Reactionaries actually is the more common term they use. That's their opinion of themselves, not my hot take.

    I'm not accusing either of you of being Nazis, you know? No need for this game of terminological keep-away.
    No one said you were, we're just correcting your misconception, the only clear thing you said in your muddled OP.

    But look, the fact is that, by most people's definition, Nazism is definitely a far-right ideology owing to the severity of its racist attitudes.
    And now you just repeat yourself adding the bit about racism. For one, that anarchistic. Race back then meant a people united in culture, language, place, not the $#@!ization of skin color, and certainly not neoracist Critical Race Theory. For another, being racist is not rightwing, it's leftwing. The history of racism in America is definitely tied to the Democratic Party, from Civil War South through Jim Crow through KKK though the filibustering resistance to civil rights by the friends of Joe Biden. But you a Marxist, or one-time Marist, know how racist Marx was--and if you didn't then educate yourself: Did you know that Karl Marx was a racist and an anti-Semite?

    Again, the only significant different between right and left collectivism, right and left socialism is one was nationalist and the globalist (and that only in theory).

    The point is that is that Nazis are people who only use and twist economic populism to service extraordinarily backward, often genocidal attitudes toward people of other races. They use feudal imagery and often believe in slavery, rape, and genocide as matters of principle, etc.
    Right and the Societ Communists and the Chinese Communists treated their people with simply loving human kindness. "Communist regimes produced the greatest ideological carnage in human history, killing more than a hundred million people in the last century. While some apologists claim it is unfair to Marx to blame him, the seeds of tyranny were there from the start." -- Don't celebrate Karl Marx. His Communism has a death count in the millions.

    It's NOT just my opinion! That's just how politicos have broadly chosen to define it.
    Odd coming from one who claims to teach history.

    Neo-Nazis define themselves as conservatives.
    No they do not. They define themselves as socialists. Take Richard Spencer, please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    No one said you were, we're just correcting your misconception, the only clear thing you said in your muddled OP.



    And now you just repeat yourself adding the bit about racism. For one, that anarchistic. Race back then meant a people united in culture, language, place, not the $#@!ization of skin color, and certainly not neoracist Critical Race Theory. For another, being racist is not rightwing, it's leftwing. The history of racism in America is definitely tied to the Democratic Party, from Civil War South through Jim Crow through KKK though the filibustering resistance to civil rights by the friends of Joe Biden. But you a Marxist, or one-time Marist, know how racist Marx was--and if you didn't then educate yourself: Did you know that Karl Marx was a racist and an anti-Semite?

    Again, the only significant different between right and left collectivism, right and left socialism is one was nationalist and the globalist (and that only in theory).



    Right and the Societ Communists and the Chinese Communists treated their people with simply loving human kindness. "Communist regimes produced the greatest ideological carnage in human history, killing more than a hundred million people in the last century. While some apologists claim it is unfair to Marx to blame him, the seeds of tyranny were there from the start." -- Don't celebrate Karl Marx. His Communism has a death count in the millions.



    Odd coming from one who claims to teach history.



    No they do not. They define themselves as socialists. Take Richard Spencer, please.
    No.

    There are way too many problems with the rest of your response for me to feel like there's any chance of us establishing communication here. Like you disingenuously claim that "being racist is not rightwing, it's leftwing" because "The history of racism in America is definitely tied to the Democratic Party", disingenuously ignoring the simple and obvious reality that the same region of the country you keep bringing up is today governed by Republican Party. Both parties obviously have, and have always had, their more left and more right wings and their problems with racism. And you're right also in the sense that not all racist attitudes are held by white people by any means. But I'm just saying that when you talk about slavery and Jim Crow and just ignore that the last president you voted for was endorsed by David Duke, there's just something dishonest going on. Something too dishonest for me to take seriously.

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    It isn't helpful to use racism as a measure of right or left. Racism is an attitude. And if we were honest for a change, most racism today is on the left, not the right.

    The insidious soft bigotry of low expectations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    It isn't helpful to use racism as a measure of right or left. Racism is an attitude. And if we were honest for a change, most racism today is on the left, not the right.

    The insidious soft bigotry of low expectations.
    I'm just telling you how most people evaluate these things and my OP reflected the common persuasion thereabout. I don't have the energy here to get into an elaborate debate about anti-white racism supposedly taking over America. I mean most people don't believe that's the case and that's because it's just not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    I'm just telling you how most people evaluate these things and my OP reflected the common persuasion thereabout. I don't have the energy here to get into an elaborate debate about anti-white racism supposedly taking over America. I mean most people don't believe that's the case and that's because it's just not.
    Understood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    No.

    There are way too many problems with the rest of your response for me to feel like there's any chance of us establishing communication here. Like you disingenuously claim that "being racist is not rightwing, it's leftwing" because "The history of racism in America is definitely tied to the Democratic Party", disingenuously ignoring the simple and obvious reality that the same region of the country you keep bringing up is today governed by Republican Party. Both parties obviously have, and have always had, their more left and more right wings and their problems with racism. And you're right also in the sense that not all racist attitudes are held by white people by any means. But I'm just saying that when you talk about slavery and Jim Crow and just ignore that the last president you voted for was endorsed by David Duke, there's just something dishonest going on. Something too dishonest for me to take seriously.



    The feeling is mutual.

    True, not all Democrats are racists, not all Republicans are not. I mean, wow, you name one example, David Duke against the long history of racism associated with the Democrats. But I didn't just point out Democrats, I pointed out the racism of Marx and Lenin and communists in general.

    And remember, my point was to demonstrate that your claim the Nazis were rightwing for their racism is disingenuous poppy$#@!, and it is.

    And that's just the title of your OP.


    Let's look at David Duke, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke

    Duke unsuccessfully stood as Democratic candidate for state legislature during the 1970s and 1980s, culminating in his campaign for the 1988 Democratic presidential nomination. After failing to gain any traction within the Democratic Party, Duke left and successfully gained the presidential nomination of the minor Populist Party. In December 1988, he became a Republican and claimed to have become a born-again Christian, renouncing antisemitism and racism.[6] He soon won his only elected office, a seat in the Louisiana House of Representatives. He then ran unsuccessful but competitive campaigns for several more offices, including United States Senate in 1990 and Governor of Louisiana in 1991. His campaigns were denounced by national and state Republican leaders, including President George H. W. Bush. He mounted a minor challenge to President Bush in 1992 and has continued to run for public office through 2016, though his campaigns have become increasingly marginal.
    Interestingly, as initially a Democrat he embraced racism and anti-Semitism, as a Republican he repudiated both but was still rejected by Republican leaders.
    Last edited by Chris; 04-11-2021 at 09:07 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    I'm just telling you how most people evaluate these things and my OP reflected the common persuasion thereabout. I don't have the energy here to get into an elaborate debate about anti-white racism supposedly taking over America. I mean most people don't believe that's the case and that's because it's just not.
    But you know historically and factually that that popular opinion is false and fallacious (Argumentum ad populum). And yet you not only repeat it but you defend it.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    But you know historically and factually that that popular opinion is false and fallacious (Argumentum ad populum). And yet you not only repeat it but you defend it.
    "Right wing" and "left wing" are wholly subjective concepts to begin with. There's no such thing as an individual person's definition thereof being correct or false therefore. All it is is a collective opinion to begin with. Therefore, the prevailing definitions actually do matter and are kind of defining by nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    It isn't helpful to use racism as a measure of right or left. Racism is an attitude. And if we were honest for a change, most racism today is on the left, not the right.

    The insidious soft bigotry of low expectations.
    We need to start calling it the hard bigotry/racism that is really is.
    Cutesy Time is OVER

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