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Thread: Gender Identity and the Extreme Right

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    Gender Identity and the Extreme Right

    Recently, a U.S. district judge chose to let a trans-male member of the Atomwaffen Division (the name is German for "atomic weapon") -- a Holocaust-denying, swastika-brandishing, Heil Hitlering neo-Nazi group responsible for numerous murders, rapes, kidnappings, cases of torture, and hate crimes of all sorts that seeks the extermination of all people of color, Jewish people, and gay people and idolizes Osama bin Laden and the Islamic State, who's de facto leader goes by the screen name "Rape" online, among other things -- off the hook without prison time after "he" faced charges of conspiracy, mail threats, and cyberstalking against journalists critical of the group on the grounds that "he" had suffered enough from his physically abusive upbringing already.

    The point I aim to raise here isn't the leniency of this judge's decision (which I'm honestly sort of inclined to sympathize with, just as someone from an abusive upbringing myself), but rather that this fanatical neo-Nazi terrorist organization is ideologically transgenderist. Think about that, folks. How many times have you been called a "fascist" or a "Nazi" of late because you weren't woke enough to realize that sex-based pronouns are outdated, bra? Let me suggest to you that the Atomwaffen Division's welcoming attitude toward white men of all sexes isn't driven by a nice, liberal vision of a open, polite, and inclusive society (again, their goal is the extermination of all people of color, Jewish people, gay people, etc.) or by a scientific outlook and perspective on life (the organization's semi-official religions are theocratic Satanism and jihadist Islam), but rather by a knowledge of exactly what they're doing.

    Gender-inclusive definitions of manhood and womanhood, in fact, have quite a prominent place in many corners not just of the left, but also of the global far right. Consider also, for example, the incel movement. "Incel" is a shorthand term the movement uses for "involuntarily celibate". It's a male supremacist scene that advocates state distribution of sex slaves to "beta males" who can't otherwise obtain sex, the repeal of women's suffrage, banning women from owning property, and all sorts of other misogynistic propositions that remind one of stuff they saw in The Handmaid's Tale. Self-described incels have often committed mass shootings, ISIS-style car attacks, and other murder strategies to inspire recruitment and further violence. Within inceldom there exists a concept called being "pink pilled", which refers to, in the words of Incels Wiki, quote "coping ideology" that claims the ability to "transform an incel into a cute and sexually attractive woman to male Chads". ("Chad" is men's rights activist lingo for "alpha males" who supposedly every woman wants to bang.) The movement has built an entire genre of pornography around this concept, known as "sissification porn", that has, in fact, reportedly succeeded in convincing many men to start identifying as women. Descriptions of the brainwashing involved are painful, but enlightening, to read. For example...


    “I started watching trans porn initially five or so years ago and I remember I had post orgasm regret. Back then, I imagined myself as the guy… About a year and a half ago, I started to imagine the possibility of being the girl in these scenarios. I… wanted to be ‘forced’ to be $#@!ed by a man because I was turned on by the submissiveness of it. I dreamed about going to gloryholes or being blindfolded as men used me as an object for sex. Recently, I’ve started to really question everything. I love the attention and consequently feeling like the woman. This has lead [sic] me to have some gender dysphoria, as I would love to be the woman and see where that would take me in my life (fully transitioned transwoman). TL;DR my sexual and gender identity has been completely flipped on its head because of sissy porn/hypno.”


    ...and...

    “I became interested in sissy porn around age 16-17. I was blown away by it! I loved the idea of someone (whether it be a man or a woman) ‘forcing’ me to become a sissy $#@! considered with nothing but pleasing ‘real men’. I want to be treated like a man’s cum-dumpster and $#@!sleeve. As of late, however, my fantasies have been less about someone forcing me to be a girl and simply me being a girl. I usually fantasize about having sex with a man as a woman.


    ETC. Submissiveness goes hand-in-hand with femaleness in incel ideology, and so self-loathing gay and bisexual men often conclude from absorbing sufficient volumes of this material, that it's time for them to undergo a gender transition. Is this still sounding like a progressive thing? A thing that is about advancement toward social equality? Or that is motivated by anything other than an understood, visceral hatred of women?

    Similarly, the concept of gender identity has been enthusiastically embraced by multiple Islamic theocracies. For example, Pakistan three years ago passed into law a new bill formally recognizing and protecting transgender identities for all legal purposes upon one's self-declaration of having one, as in without requiring a psychiatric diagnosis of dysphoria like here in most of the Western world. Supporters' statements speak volumes about the mentality involved. For example...


    “I was born with a very small male organ. Inside, my feelings are female. I want to live like a woman, cook and do domestic work."

    “I want to wear women’s clothes all the time. I’m hopeful that one day we will live that freely.”


    Pakistan is among the world's very most repressive societies to live in as a woman (as in leading clerics are known to advise on how to "lightly beat" your wife in accordance with Islam, for example) and same-sex relationships are punishable by whipping and public stoning. Such are the options for gay and gender-nonconforming men in such a nation. Better to "live as a woman", rewarding as that may be, so you can marry another man than to, you know, die.

    In Iran, which imposes a strict male guardianship system severely restricting the rights and even movements of its female population, men are permitted to identify as women for all legal purposes provided that they agree to undergo sex reassignment surgery and marry a man (i.e. they must be gay, for all intents and purposes). This system erases the perception of homosexuality in the country. Same-sex relationships, if practiced outside this legal framework, are punishable by death in Iran. Sex reassignment surgeries are provided for free by the state. Resultant from these conditions, you won't be surprised to learn that Iran is a world leader in sex reassignment surgeries. It's also a world leader in gender-including women out of women's athletics. For example, the majority of the Iranian "women's" soccer team these days consists of biological males, as they've found that makes it a lot easier to win. This would be the sort of feat that trans activists here in the United States insist is impossible. Lo and behold that the impossible has already happened in Iran! Not that it matters too much: women have long been banned from watching men compete in Iran.

    My point in highlighting all this is that gender critical feminists like yours truly have real reasons for rejecting accusations of conservatism and of "gender essentialism". Normal Western conservatives may not be on board with gender identity as a concept, but that's because the Western social consensus itself is left of where it is in places like Iran and Thailand. Even our conservatives are typically not so reactionary as to legally require gay and lesbian people to embrace undergo sex-reassignment surgery on pain of torture and execution, or so misogynistic as to forbid women any rights to privacy, safety, fair play, or freedom of speech or assemly. Gender critical feminists simply agree with these convictions. It is the Western leftists, so-called, who ought to seriously evaluate how much they have in common with the global forces of the extreme right, as doing so might just call into question how "progressive" the fact-free insistence that manhood and womanhood are just ideas and not material realities actually is.

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    I've said it before... "transgenderism" is just a convoluted and extreme form of homophobic self-loathing.

    The data is clear: the large majority of children who identity as "trans" end up desisting by the time they reach puberty and simply end up as homosexuals or bisexuals.

    Because that is what most "trans" people really are: Homosexuals or bisexuals who are confused or insecure about their sexuality.

    As you mentioned, ultra homophobic places like Pakistan and Iran embrace "transgenderism" specifically for the purpose of erasing homosexuality and bisexuality from their societies.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Atomwaffen Division? "The Atomwaffen Division, a neo-nazi group which has been linked to five murders, has disbanded and rebranded itself as the National Socialist Order." Militant neo-nazi group surfaces in Colorado.

    The OP title should read "Gender Identity and the Extreme Left." As such your last paragraph makes some sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Atomwaffen Division? "The Atomwaffen Division, a neo-nazi group which has been linked to five murders, has disbanded and rebranded itself as the National Socialist Order." Militant neo-nazi group surfaces in Colorado.

    The OP title should read "Gender Identity and the Extreme Left." As such your last paragraph makes some sense.
    I recently took a class called Clarity in Writing. The OP would do well to take it.

    The first paragraph starts with a thought, gets side tracked with background info, and only completes the first sentence near the end of the paragraph.

    Recently, a U.S. district judge chose to let a trans-male member of the Atomwaffen Division (the name is German for "atomic weapon") -- a Holocaust-denying, swastika-brandishing, Heil Hitlering neo-Nazi group responsible for numerous murders, rapes, kidnappings, cases of torture, and hate crimes of all sorts that seeks the extermination of all people of color, Jewish people, and gay people and idolizes Osama bin Laden and the Islamic State, who's de facto leader goes by the screen name "Rape" online, among other things -- off the hook without prison time after "he" faced charges of conspiracy, mail threats, and cyberstalking against journalists critical of the group on the grounds that "he" had suffered enough from his physically abusive upbringing already.
    Isn't this more clear and easy to read?

    Recently, a U.S. district judge chose to let a trans-male member of the Atomwaffen Division (the name is German for "atomic weapon") off the hook without prison time. "He" faced charges of conspiracy, mail threats, and cyberstalking against journalists critical of the group. The judge stated that "he" had already suffered enough from his physically abusive upbringing.

    The Atomwaffen Division is a Holocaust-denying, swastika-brandishing, Heil Hitlering neo-Nazi group responsible for numerous murders, rapes, kidnappings, cases of torture, and hate crimes of all sorts. They seek the extermination of all people of color, Jewish people, and gay people and idolizes Osama bin Laden and the Islamic State. Their de facto leader goes by the online screen name "Rape."


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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    My point in highlighting all this is that gender critical feminists like yours truly have real reasons for rejecting accusations of conservatism and of "gender essentialism". Normal Western conservatives may not be on board with gender identity as a concept, but that's because the Western social consensus itself is left of where it is in places like Iran and Thailand. Even our conservatives are typically not so reactionary as to legally require gay and lesbian people to embrace undergo sex-reassignment surgery on pain of torture and execution, or so misogynistic as to forbid women any rights to privacy, safety, fair play, or freedom of speech or assemly. Gender critical feminists simply agree with these convictions. It is the Western leftists, so-called, who ought to seriously evaluate how much they have in common with the global forces of the extreme right, as doing so might just call into question how "progressive" the fact-free insistence that manhood and womanhood are just ideas and not material realities actually is.
    What? Fact free? Sorry, but this needs explaining or maybe not.



    "To me, it doesn't matter if your scapegoats are the Jews, the homosexuals, the male sex, the Masons, the Jesuits, the Welfare Parasites, the Power Elite, the female sex, the vegetarians, or the Communist Party. To the extent that you need a scapegoat, you simply have not got your brain programmed to work as an efficient problem-solving machine." Robert Anton Wilson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I've said it before... "transgenderism" is just a convoluted and extreme form of homophobic self-loathing.

    The data is clear: the large majority of children who identity as "trans" end up desisting by the time they reach puberty and simply end up as homosexuals or bisexuals.

    Because that is what most "trans" people really are: Homosexuals or bisexuals who are confused or insecure about their sexuality.

    As you mentioned, ultra homophobic places like Pakistan and Iran embrace "transgenderism" specifically for the purpose of erasing homosexuality and bisexuality from their societies.
    There's a lot of truth to both of those assertions. You might've noticed that, similarly, the ascendancy of the gender identity movement into the cultural mainstream over the course of recent decades (but especially this last one) in this country has overlapped with the disappearance of lesbian cultural life. As Katie Herzog has aptly pointed out, there is a direct relationship between those two things. As the lesbian bars and night clubs and other lesbian-specific and lesbian-identified cultural spaces (including the annual Michigan Womyn's Music Festival I used to enjoy attending before trans activists got it cancelled in 2015) have vanished, more and more young lesbians and bisexual girls and young women have begun "coming out" as $#@! and non-binary and transmen instead, whatever any of that even means. That sense of cultural identity as lesbians existed for a reason. It was important. It needed to be there.

    You also point out something very important when you reference the studies concerning desistance rates. Trans activists frequently point out that rates of detransition are low, but fail to note how high the rate of desistance in adulthood is, by contrast. The difference between the two things reveals the superficiality of the gender identity phenomenon.

    Just about 100% of children who are put on puberty blockers go on to pursue sex reassignment surgery, but by contrast 60 to 90% of children who undergo only a purely social gender identity transition during their childhood that doesn't involve medicalization eventually desist after reaching adulthood. When the reversion process is easy, reversion becomes the rule. Without early medicalization, the gender identity phenomenon largely just disappears! That's why the gender industry is so perversely insistent upon specifically medicalizing children with puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and so on and so forth. It reminds me of like addictive drugs in a way. The makers of cigarettes and the rest know well that if you don't hook someone when they're young, vulnerable, and impressionable, chances are you never will. These industries have to hook 'em when they're young. And so it seems to be with gender identity. There's a whole industry built around the medicalization thereof and if you don't expand it in such a way as to include children, it just doesn't work very well financially. It's amazing how fragile the whole concept of gender identity is that way for something that's supposedly natural and inborn. Once you establish a personal cost to reversion through medicalization though, that's how you keep people in their new identities for life. Medicalization sets up physiological barriers to reversion that seem to successfully prevent it from happening the vast majority of the time. Like if identifying with your natural body again means you have to go off hormones you've been on for years, for example, and potentially suffer all kinds of physical repercussions, or that you have to try and undo surgical mutilations of your body with more surgeries and probably can't even fully succeed...well that is the kind of cost attachment that keeps lots of people attached to their new identities. But if there's no such cost attached -- if you don't have to de-medicalize yourself to identify with your natural body again -- THEN reversion becomes the rule!

    When gay and lesbian people successfully got the psychiatric community de-pathologize sexual orientation, the demand was for it to be DE-medicalized. So when trans activists compare their goals to the want of acceptance that lesbian, gay, and bisexual people have experienced, I can't help finding it disingenuous. Why does being your natural self require you to routinely make payments to zillion-dollar business corporations and take medicine when you're not sick, stuff like this? Why do you have to keep taking hormones regularly and buy all this other stuff to remain your natural self? How is that natural? How natural is such a concept of self?

    The more I keep learning about this stuff, the more I become convinced that it's just a capitalist scheme. Like how the term "sex" has been systematically replaced with the more subjective term "gender" in our consciousness over a generation. We're phasing out the social relevance of objective things like biological sex in favor of this new, wholly subjective concept called gender that has to be bought. And there are all kinds of genders, whatever those are, available at different prices. There are luxury packages and economy packages and...I dunno. It's obviously a money-making scheme is my point. It's an industry capitalizing on the insecurities that mostly gay and lesbian and bisexual people have and co-opting our language to engineer social movements of their own that create demand for their products. Because I mean if you parents do buy you puberty blockers, you'll just have to commit suicide. There's just no other way.

    Anyway, all of this made me very happy to learn recently that Arkansas has made the decision to become the first U.S. state to ban the sale of puberty blockers and the prescription and sale of cross-sex hormones to children, as well as the performance of sex reassignment surgeries on children. A law to de-medicalize gender identity in Arkansas. It is quite possible that, if this new law is allowed to go into effect, trans identification may start to become less common in that state over time. (Perhaps also notable: Arkansas furthermore, just weeks ago, passed a state bill banning biological males from participating in female-only school sports competitions that are federally funded.)
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 04-10-2021 at 12:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    I recently took a class called Clarity in Writing. The OP would do well to take it.

    The first paragraph starts with a thought, gets side tracked with background info, and only completes the first sentence near the end of the paragraph.



    Isn't this more clear and easy to read?

    Recently, a U.S. district judge chose to let a trans-male member of the Atomwaffen Division (the name is German for "atomic weapon") off the hook without prison time. "He" faced charges of conspiracy, mail threats, and cyberstalking against journalists critical of the group. The judge stated that "he" had already suffered enough from his physically abusive upbringing.

    The Atomwaffen Division is a Holocaust-denying, swastika-brandishing, Heil Hitlering neo-Nazi group responsible for numerous murders, rapes, kidnappings, cases of torture, and hate crimes of all sorts. They seek the extermination of all people of color, Jewish people, and gay people and idolizes Osama bin Laden and the Islamic State. Their de facto leader goes by the online screen name "Rape."
    If your only objection to the contents of the OP is my grammar, I consider it a success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Atomwaffen Division? "The Atomwaffen Division, a neo-nazi group which has been linked to five murders, has disbanded and rebranded itself as the National Socialist Order." Militant neo-nazi group surfaces in Colorado.

    The OP title should read "Gender Identity and the Extreme Left." As such your last paragraph makes some sense.
    As far as the rest of the world is concerned, Nazism is definitely a right wing political philosophy. It's just a label though. It's a negative one, however, and one I get labeled with from time to time by trans activists and would-be progressives. My aim here was to present gender identity as an area where the horseshoe theory may have real validity, being as, for example, both the Atomwaffen Division and the Antifa (shorthand for "anti-fascist") movement are ideologically transgenderist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Recently, a U.S. district judge chose to let a trans-male member of the Atomwaffen Division (the name is German for "atomic weapon") -- a Holocaust-denying, swastika-brandishing, Heil Hitlering neo-Nazi group responsible for numerous murders, rapes, kidnappings, cases of torture, and hate crimes of all sorts that seeks the extermination of all people of color, Jewish people, and gay people and idolizes Osama bin Laden and the Islamic State, who's de facto leader goes by the screen name "Rape" online, among other things -- off the hook without prison time after "he" faced charges of conspiracy, mail threats, and cyberstalking against journalists critical of the group on the grounds that "he" had suffered enough from his physically abusive upbringing already.

    The point I aim to raise here isn't the leniency of this judge's decision (which I'm honestly sort of inclined to sympathize with, just as someone from an abusive upbringing myself), but rather that this fanatical neo-Nazi terrorist organization is ideologically transgenderist. Think about that, folks. How many times have you been called a "fascist" or a "Nazi" of late because you weren't woke enough to realize that sex-based pronouns are outdated, bra? Let me suggest to you that the Atomwaffen Division's welcoming attitude toward white men of all sexes isn't driven by a nice, liberal vision of a open, polite, and inclusive society (again, their goal is the extermination of all people of color, Jewish people, gay people, etc.) or by a scientific outlook and perspective on life (the organization's semi-official religions are theocratic Satanism and jihadist Islam), but rather by a knowledge of exactly what they're doing.

    Gender-inclusive definitions of manhood and womanhood, in fact, have quite a prominent place in many corners not just of the left, but also of the global far right. Consider also, for example, the incel movement. "Incel" is a shorthand term the movement uses for "involuntarily celibate". It's a male supremacist scene that advocates state distribution of sex slaves to "beta males" who can't otherwise obtain sex, the repeal of women's suffrage, banning women from owning property, and all sorts of other misogynistic propositions that remind one of stuff they saw in The Handmaid's Tale. Self-described incels have often committed mass shootings, ISIS-style car attacks, and other murder strategies to inspire recruitment and further violence. Within inceldom there exists a concept called being "pink pilled", which refers to, in the words of Incels Wiki, quote "coping ideology" that claims the ability to "transform an incel into a cute and sexually attractive woman to male Chads". ("Chad" is men's rights activist lingo for "alpha males" who supposedly every woman wants to bang.) The movement has built an entire genre of pornography around this concept, known as "sissification porn", that has, in fact, reportedly succeeded in convincing many men to start identifying as women. Descriptions of the brainwashing involved are painful, but enlightening, to read. For example...


    “I started watching trans porn initially five or so years ago and I remember I had post orgasm regret. Back then, I imagined myself as the guy… About a year and a half ago, I started to imagine the possibility of being the girl in these scenarios. I… wanted to be ‘forced’ to be $#@!ed by a man because I was turned on by the submissiveness of it. I dreamed about going to gloryholes or being blindfolded as men used me as an object for sex. Recently, I’ve started to really question everything. I love the attention and consequently feeling like the woman. This has lead [sic] me to have some gender dysphoria, as I would love to be the woman and see where that would take me in my life (fully transitioned transwoman). TL;DR my sexual and gender identity has been completely flipped on its head because of sissy porn/hypno.”


    ...and...

    “I became interested in sissy porn around age 16-17. I was blown away by it! I loved the idea of someone (whether it be a man or a woman) ‘forcing’ me to become a sissy $#@! considered with nothing but pleasing ‘real men’. I want to be treated like a man’s cum-dumpster and $#@!sleeve. As of late, however, my fantasies have been less about someone forcing me to be a girl and simply me being a girl. I usually fantasize about having sex with a man as a woman.


    ETC. Submissiveness goes hand-in-hand with femaleness in incel ideology, and so self-loathing gay and bisexual men often conclude from absorbing sufficient volumes of this material, that it's time for them to undergo a gender transition. Is this still sounding like a progressive thing? A thing that is about advancement toward social equality? Or that is motivated by anything other than an understood, visceral hatred of women?

    Similarly, the concept of gender identity has been enthusiastically embraced by multiple Islamic theocracies. For example, Pakistan three years ago passed into law a new bill formally recognizing and protecting transgender identities for all legal purposes upon one's self-declaration of having one, as in without requiring a psychiatric diagnosis of dysphoria like here in most of the Western world. Supporters' statements speak volumes about the mentality involved. For example...


    “I was born with a very small male organ. Inside, my feelings are female. I want to live like a woman, cook and do domestic work."

    “I want to wear women’s clothes all the time. I’m hopeful that one day we will live that freely.”


    Pakistan is among the world's very most repressive societies to live in as a woman (as in leading clerics are known to advise on how to "lightly beat" your wife in accordance with Islam, for example) and same-sex relationships are punishable by whipping and public stoning. Such are the options for gay and gender-nonconforming men in such a nation. Better to "live as a woman", rewarding as that may be, so you can marry another man than to, you know, die.

    In Iran, which imposes a strict male guardianship system severely restricting the rights and even movements of its female population, men are permitted to identify as women for all legal purposes provided that they agree to undergo sex reassignment surgery and marry a man (i.e. they must be gay, for all intents and purposes). This system erases the perception of homosexuality in the country. Same-sex relationships, if practiced outside this legal framework, are punishable by death in Iran. Sex reassignment surgeries are provided for free by the state. Resultant from these conditions, you won't be surprised to learn that Iran is a world leader in sex reassignment surgeries. It's also a world leader in gender-including women out of women's athletics. For example, the majority of the Iranian "women's" soccer team these days consists of biological males, as they've found that makes it a lot easier to win. This would be the sort of feat that trans activists here in the United States insist is impossible. Lo and behold that the impossible has already happened in Iran! Not that it matters too much: women have long been banned from watching men compete in Iran.

    My point in highlighting all this is that gender critical feminists like yours truly have real reasons for rejecting accusations of conservatism and of "gender essentialism". Normal Western conservatives may not be on board with gender identity as a concept, but that's because the Western social consensus itself is left of where it is in places like Iran and Thailand. Even our conservatives are typically not so reactionary as to legally require gay and lesbian people to embrace undergo sex-reassignment surgery on pain of torture and execution, or so misogynistic as to forbid women any rights to privacy, safety, fair play, or freedom of speech or assemly. Gender critical feminists simply agree with these convictions. It is the Western leftists, so-called, who ought to seriously evaluate how much they have in common with the global forces of the extreme right, as doing so might just call into question how "progressive" the fact-free insistence that manhood and womanhood are just ideas and not material realities actually is.
    #1. I respect your right as an adult to be and do who u wanna be and what u are into.

    #2. I'm sorry you were abused.

    #3. I hope that person rots in hell
    I'm yo.
    This my brother yo
    We yo yo

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