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Thread: Amazon workers vote against union at Alabama warehouse

  1. #11
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    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    ...As far as the 83% saying union workers are lazy IMO it's a bogus poll since they only had 20 respondents as far as I could tell. If they had several thousand people polled and we knew the sampling rates, then it would make it more legitimate.
    I had one bad experience with one union. I was part of a team, hired by a large company, to track down, identify, document, and render operable, repairable or scrap every item in their very large network of routers, switches, servers, computers, and printers. It was a month long effort.

    The union assigned me a "minder" who followed me around everywhere I went. In order to get data plate data I had to move the equipment so I could see the back of the device or the bottom of the device. Every time I started to move a piece of equipment I was warned to stop by my union minder who filled out a work slip so a union member could be assigned to move the equipment. Because they didn't just assign a union toadie to help me I had to wait for the work slip to be routed, approved, a worker assigned, who eventually showed up, and then I had to sign off that the union toadie did the work identified on the work slip.

    This task took between 3 and 4 times longer than it would have if I had simply moved the items myself.

    I hate union. I hate union thugs. God, I hate Democrats.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    carolina73's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMNIXON View Post
    This is after Amazon claimed many votes invalid......i.e. Fraud!

    'Woke' Amazon Claiming Voter Fraud (thepoliticalforums.com)




    I get the appeal of collective bargaining for better wages, benefits, and working conditions. But Unions have devolved into lazy worker protection rackets.
    Quality workers do not need representatives. Everyone wants to keep dependable producers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Being partisan has nothing to do with accuracy. Facts. Truth. Although those do tend to present difficulty for the left and their reading comprehension problems. The left can no longer use that excuse. Due to their Lame Stream Media getting it wrong more than other new sources out there. Due to the Alphabet Soup being negligent with misinformation. Due to putting out disinformation. Fake News. News Papers the majority lean left and are not only partisan but have Leftists activists within their ranks. They are just as partisan as any Right leaning sources out there. Yet being partisan doesnt make them wrong. Its the lack of facts. Truths. Misinformation. Disinformation and of course getting it wrong more than any others in this day and age. Oh and all those activists within their ranks. Including all those former Democrat aides and politicians.


    The leftness no longer can play the Source game. Due to their own kind validating they arent about the truth. Also due to the outright lying and intentional falsifying of facts. Not being able to comprehend at grade level with their public education and then becoming adults never able to comprehend, understand, nor discern reality.


    Unions are in decline.


    The Decline Of Unions Is A Middle Class Problem

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikecollins/2015/03/...
    Mar 19, 2015 · In 2013 the unionized workforce in America hit a 97 year low. Only 11.3% of all workers were unionized. In the private sector unionization fell to 6.6%, down from a peak of 35% in the 1950s....



    50 Years Of Shrinking Union Membership, In One Map ...

    https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/02/23/385843576/50
    Feb 23, 2015 · 50 Years Of Shrinking Union Membership, In One Map : Planet Money Union membership has been on a steady decline nationally since the middle of …



    Unions: Do They Help or Hurt Workers? - Investopedia

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/unions-workers.asp
    Feb 10, 2021 · According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 10.8% of the working population were members of unions in 2020. Labor, like any other factor of production , …



    Analysis: Why America's unions are losing power - CNN

    https://www.cnn.com/2012/12/11/us/union-power-analysis/index.html
    Dec 11, 2012 · In recent years, the retirement of baby boomers has fueled anti-union sentiment as some companies struggle to pay pensions as well as health care for the aging population – …



    Nice response but you really didn't respond to most of my points I made. Why is that?

    That being said, if you really want to be honest, fake news is news you don't want to believe in for whatever the reason. Some news organizations do make factual errors and the responsible one's publicly correct them; others don't. Name me one news organization that isn't biased.

    Non-union baby boomers may resent unions for the retirement benefits they enjoy. Some companies may struggle to pay pensions, yet they always pay their CEO's their tens of millions of dollars in salary, stock options, fully funded pension plans for executives while their non-union employees are at times (in fairness not all) struggle to survive living (if they are lucky) on a 401.k or IRA plans.

    I enjoy a fully funded retirement plan, have a 401.k plan, have medical benefits which I'm covered 100% of all costs. Why? because my union bargained on my behalf.

    Those who chose to work non-union, that's their business, their choice. As you've heard often I'm sure, with decisions come consequences.

    I feel when enough people get fed up with the terms and conditions of their employment, having no pension plan, lousy or no medical plan for retiree's perhaps there will be change and if not, then so be it.
    God Bless America, God Bless our Military and God Bless the Police who defended the country against the insurgents on January 6, 2021

    Think 3rd party for 2024 folks. Clean up America.

    Once I tell you that we agree to disagree there will be no more discussion between us in the thread so please don't waste your time continuing to argue your points because I will not respond.

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    FindersKeepers's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    Ni
    Non-union baby boomers may resent unions for the retirement benefits they enjoy. Some companies may struggle to pay pensions, yet they always pay their CEO's their tens of millions of dollars in salary, stock options, fully funded pension plans for executives while their non-union employees are at times (in fairness not all) struggle to survive living (if they are lucky) on a 401.k or IRA plans.
    That's not it. Those who resent unions resent them because they stifle growth and work ethic. No way in the world would I work for paltry union wages and be "one of the guys" when I can run a business and make bank.
    I enjoy a fully funded retirement plan, have a 401.k plan, have medical benefits which I'm covered 100% of all costs. Why? because my union bargained on my behalf.
    And what did you give up for that security? Wealth? World travel? Expensive toys and homes?
    Those who chose to work non-union, that's their business, their choice. As you've heard often I'm sure, with decisions come consequences.
    Agreed, which is why Amazon workers flipped the union off. Why pay organized crime to bargain when you can do so yourself?
    I feel when enough people get fed up with the terms and conditions of their employment, having no pension plan, lousy or no medical plan for retiree's perhaps there will be change and if not, then so be it.
    People are responsible for themselves. No one should be fed up with the terms of their employment because they have always had the ability to leave and better themselves.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    That's not it. Those who resent unions resent them because they stifle growth and work ethic. No way in the world would I work for paltry union wages and be "one of the guys" when I can run a business and make bank. .
    I disagree. When your union wages are 6 figures per year, that is not something I'd call "paltry". As far as to your claim that they stifle growth and work ethic, I likewise have to disagree. My union formed a working partnership with the company decades ago and the company is a much larger and stronger in part due to it.


    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    And what did you give up for that security? Wealth? World travel? Expensive toys and homes? .
    We gave nothing up for security, we can leave the company anytime we so choose, many of our members travel around the world on their vacations (Many of us get 7 weeks vacation per year), own homes and while I don't know of any members who own lear jets, most of them live within their means.


    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Agreed, which is why Amazon workers flipped the union off. Why pay organized crime to bargain when you can do so yourself? .
    I took you seriously until you raised the "organized crime" part of your posting. It's obvious you are now talking out of ignorance, therefore i'm not going to waste my time with any further discussion on this thread with you.
    God Bless America, God Bless our Military and God Bless the Police who defended the country against the insurgents on January 6, 2021

    Think 3rd party for 2024 folks. Clean up America.

    Once I tell you that we agree to disagree there will be no more discussion between us in the thread so please don't waste your time continuing to argue your points because I will not respond.

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    carolina73's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    I honestly didn't expect the union to pull out a victory on this. Alabama is a right-to-work state which makes it tough to organize in the first place and the general mindset is not union friendly. The company no doubt did what they had to do, whether legal or illegal, to persuade the employees that organizing was not in their best interests.

    The RWDSU would have been much better off organizing an Amazon shop in and Agency Fee Payer state. At least the mindset of the workers is much different. Winning a number of Amazon shops in organizing drives and bargaining for fair, equitable labor agreements might have helped in convincing other Amazon shops that the union is not the eternal bogeyman many companies paint them to be.
    I have dealt with union shops in Alabama. The unions followed the metals industry from the north.
    They all thought that they could screw around and the would never be shut down.

    They shut them down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    I have dealt with union shops in Alabama. The unions followed the metals industry from the north.
    They all thought that they could screw around and the would never be shut down.

    They shut them down.
    Having never worked under a blue collar trade union I cannot confirm nor deny what you are saying. I only worked under a white collar union out of college and we didn't "screw" around; we all took pride in our work because if we didn't, the public knew rather quickly.
    God Bless America, God Bless our Military and God Bless the Police who defended the country against the insurgents on January 6, 2021

    Think 3rd party for 2024 folks. Clean up America.

    Once I tell you that we agree to disagree there will be no more discussion between us in the thread so please don't waste your time continuing to argue your points because I will not respond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    Having never worked under a blue collar trade union I cannot confirm nor deny what you are saying. I only worked under a white collar union out of college and we didn't "screw" around; we all took pride in our work because if we didn't, the public knew rather quickly.
    There is no doubt that unions serve different industries in different ways.
    As far as the SAG for actors = there is little effect on the public.
    As far as the teachers and government workers unions, we see a tremendous anount of waste and corruption that causes a great deal of harm.

    My personal view is that there is no reason to restrict unions but there is never any justification for a closed shop/forced membership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    There is no doubt that unions serve different industries in different ways.
    As far as the SAG for actors = there is little effect on the public.
    As far as the teachers and government workers unions, we see a tremendous anount of waste and corruption that causes a great deal of harm.

    My personal view is that there is no reason to restrict unions but there is never any justification for a closed shop/forced membership.
    Closed shops were declared illegal under the Taft-Hartley Act. Under federal law you cannot be compelled to join a labor union however in Agency Fee Payer states, you can be compelled to pay a fee equal to what dues would be minus non-maintenance fees since the union is required to represent you even if you are not a member.
    God Bless America, God Bless our Military and God Bless the Police who defended the country against the insurgents on January 6, 2021

    Think 3rd party for 2024 folks. Clean up America.

    Once I tell you that we agree to disagree there will be no more discussion between us in the thread so please don't waste your time continuing to argue your points because I will not respond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    Closed shops were declared illegal under the Taft-Hartley Act. Under federal law you cannot be compelled to join a labor union however in Agency Fee Payer states, you can be compelled to pay a fee equal to what dues would be minus non-maintenance fees since the union is required to represent you even if you are not a member.
    That is a a legal but ineffectual justification.

    It is a protection money scheme. If you do not pay the mafia then you cannot do business here.

    Racketeering.

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