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Thread: The argument over Vaccines altering DNA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    To date no tests have been conducted to check. Once we sequence the DNA of those who have been vaccinated, we will know for sure. So far scientists have sequenced the DNA of those infected with Covid, and the science shows that Covid reverse transcribed into the DNA. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33330870/ The blog posts in the OP are quite interesting, although it is an argument based on hypothesis as no scientific studies have yet been conducted on the DNA of those who have been vaccinated with the MRNA vaccines.

    I do not agree that it is end of story until we check to see.
    A December preprint about SARS-CoV-2, by scientists at Harvard and Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), produced findings about wild coronavirus that raise questions about how viral RNA operates.
    The scientists conducted the analysis because they were “puzzled by the fact that there is a respectable number of people who are testing positive for COVID-19 by PCR long after the infection was gone.”
    Their key findings were as follows: SARS-CoV-2 RNAs “can be reverse transcribed in human cells,” “these DNA sequences can be integrated into the cell genome and subsequently be transcribed” (a phenomenon called “retro-integration”) — and there are viable cellular pathways to explain how this happens.


    The findings of the Harvard and MIT researchers also put the CDC’s assumptions about mRNA vaccines on shakier ground, according to Corrigan. In fact, a month before the Harvard-MIT preprint appeared, Corrigan had already written a blog outlining possible mechanisms and pathways whereby mRNA vaccines could produce the identical phenomenon.
    In a second blog post, written after the preprint came out, Corrigan emphasized that the Harvard-MIT findings about coronavirus RNA have major implications for mRNA vaccines — a fact he describes as “the big elephant in the room.” While not claiming that vaccine RNA will necessarily behave in the same way as coronavirus RNA — that is, permanently altering genomic DNA — Corrigan believes that the possibility exists and deserves close scrutiny......snip~



    In Corrigan’s view, the preprint’s contribution is that it “validates that this is at least plausible, and most likely probable.”.....snip~



    Looks like MIT and Harvard's researchers validate its not a pseudoscience, huh?
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    To date no tests have been conducted to check. Once we sequence the DNA of those who have been vaccinated, we will know for sure. So far scientists have sequenced the DNA of those infected with Covid, and the science shows that Covid reverse transcribed into the DNA. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33330870/ The blog posts in the OP are quite interesting, although it is an argument based on hypothesis as no scientific studies have yet been conducted on the DNA of those who have been vaccinated with the MRNA vaccines.

    I do not agree that it is end of story until we check to see.
    Wouldn't the mRNA vaccines reduce the risk of the possibility of having any insertions into cellular DNA from reverse transcription of COVID-19 RNA by greatly reducing the probability of infection with

    the COVID virus? Any alteration of cellular DNA from a short lasting mRNA vaccine (few hours) would be far less probable than a DNA alteration resulting from an infection with the virus. The vaccine

    not only protects one from getting COVID-19 but it also protects our DNA. I suppose we could have a slower roll-out without using mRNA vaccines and this would allow far more people to get infected,

    the global economy to tank further, and if alteration of cellular DNA occurs it might occur at a greater level than with the mRNA vaccines.


    Here is a study that concludes that concludes:
    Host-virus chimeric events in SARS-CoV2 infected cells are infrequent and artifactual (can't be distinguished from background noise)


    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33980601/
    Last edited by skepticalmike; 05-14-2021 at 03:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalmike View Post
    Wouldn't the mRNA vaccines reduce the risk of the possibility of having any insertions into cellular DNA from reverse transcription of COVID-19 RNA by greatly reducing the probability of infection with

    the COVID virus? Any alteration of cellular DNA from a short lasting mRNA vaccine (few hours) would be far less probable than a DNA alteration resulting from an infection with the virus. The vaccine

    not only protects one from getting COVID-19 but it also protects our DNA. I suppose we could have a slower roll-out without using mRNA vaccines and this would allow far more people to get infected,

    the global economy to tank further, and if alteration of cellular DNA occurs it might occur at a greater level than with the mRNA vaccines.


    Here is a study that concludes that concludes:
    Host-virus chimeric events in SARS-CoV2 infected cells are infrequent and artifactual (can't be distinguished from background noise)


    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33980601/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33980601/
    Right,sure thing.......Fauci runs that organization..............The studies haven't had time to become accurate, much less proven to be true or otherwise.
    You are the lab rat. They are testing this on you.
    It has yet to be a proven "cure."
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
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    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    A December preprint about SARS-CoV-2, by scientists at Harvard and Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), produced findings about wild coronavirus that raise questions about how viral RNA operates.
    The scientists conducted the analysis because they were “puzzled by the fact that there is a respectable number of people who are testing positive for COVID-19 by PCR long after the infection was gone.”
    Their key findings were as follows: SARS-CoV-2 RNAs “can be reverse transcribed in human cells,” “these DNA sequences can be integrated into the cell genome and subsequently be transcribed” (a phenomenon called “retro-integration”) — and there are viable cellular pathways to explain how this happens.


    The findings of the Harvard and MIT researchers also put the CDC’s assumptions about mRNA vaccines on shakier ground, according to Corrigan. In fact, a month before the Harvard-MIT preprint appeared, Corrigan had already written a blog outlining possible mechanisms and pathways whereby mRNA vaccines could produce the identical phenomenon.
    In a second blog post, written after the preprint came out, Corrigan emphasized that the Harvard-MIT findings about coronavirus RNA have major implications for mRNA vaccines — a fact he describes as “the big elephant in the room.” While not claiming that vaccine RNA will necessarily behave in the same way as coronavirus RNA — that is, permanently altering genomic DNA — Corrigan believes that the possibility exists and deserves close scrutiny......snip~



    In Corrigan’s view, the preprint’s contribution is that it “validates that this is at least plausible, and most likely probable.”.....snip~



    Looks like MIT and Harvard's researchers validate its not a pseudoscience, huh?
    I think that it is pseudoscience.

    https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skep...mrna-vaccines/

    Dr.Corrigan's hypothesis about mRNA COVID vaccines causing changes to DNA requires the presence of reverse transcriptase inside of cells and for a way for the mRNA which is in the

    cytoplasm to get into the nucleus. The vaccine causes mRNA to enter muscle cells in the arm, which produce the spike protein that is recognized by immune cells as a foreign invader.

    No mRNA enters the nucleus and there isn't any reverse transcriptase in the nucleus so his hypothesis is untenable. He hasn't published anything on this subject.


    Here is a portion from the link by someone who is well educated on the subject of molecular biology:

    I am trying to figure out why Doug Corrigan thinks that reverse transcriptase actually exists in normal human cells that aren’t infected by hepatitis B or HIV (the most common viruses that produce reverse transcriptase, but they don’t leave behind the enzyme, they use it to take over a cell to replicate). Corrigan does not refer to published research nor does he link to outside reliable blogs or websites that might explain this hypothesis about reverse transcriptase. I did the work for him, because I’m not a lazy writer, and I found no one claiming that there is endogenous reverse transcriptase running around our cells (outside the aforementioned infectious with viruses that produce the enzyme to hijack the cell).

    Summary

    This is one of the myths that will circulate through the anti-vaxxer community. And everyone will say “look, Doug Corrigan has a Ph.D., so he knows what he’s talking about.” And using confirmation bias, they will ignore all of the other researchers who don’t make these claims.
    I have my concerns about the mRNA vaccines, but it has nothing to do with safety and certainly nothing to do with changes in the DNA. I think these vaccines are extraordinarily safe, short- and long-term. However, I don’t think we’ve had adequate time to establish long-term effectiveness, but I’m sure my concerns about that will be allayed as we get more data.
    But right now, there is simply no evidence that the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines will have any effect on human DNA. These claims lack biological plausibility along with any published evidence.
    Doug Corrigan’s claims have no merit and are pure pseudoscience.

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    https://www.forbes.com/sites/victori...h=65aad4a12491

    One of the most popular circulating mistruths at the moment is that mRNA vaccines will alter your DNA, with pseudoscientific content flooding social networks such as Twitter, Facebook and YouTube. The good news is that they simply can’t do this, which will come as a disappointment to some who were hoping that this might be their chance for superpowers, but where did this belief in DNA-changing vaccines come from?
    “I think people are concerned that because this is genetic material injected into the body, could it somehow mix in with your own genetic material and change it,” said Sara Riordan, President of the National Society of Genetic Counselors.

    In the case of mRNA vaccines against Covid-19, these are not made in the nucleus, rather they are injected into the arm to tell muscle cells how to make part of the viral “Spike” or “S” protein, a tiny part of the SARS-CoV2 coronavirus, which on its own has none of the negative effects of the virus itself.
    “What’s really reassuring about these mRNA vaccines, the mRNA never even goes into the nucleus, the part of the cell contains all of your own DNA and instructions,” Riordan added.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalmike View Post
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/victori...h=65aad4a12491

    One of the most popular circulating mistruths at the moment is that mRNA vaccines will alter your DNA, with pseudoscientific content flooding social networks such as Twitter, Facebook and YouTube. The good news is that they simply can’t do this, which will come as a disappointment to some who were hoping that this might be their chance for superpowers, but where did this belief in DNA-changing vaccines come from?
    “I think people are concerned that because this is genetic material injected into the body, could it somehow mix in with your own genetic material and change it,” said Sara Riordan, President of the National Society of Genetic Counselors.

    In the case of mRNA vaccines against Covid-19, these are not made in the nucleus, rather they are injected into the arm to tell muscle cells how to make part of the viral “Spike” or “S” protein, a tiny part of the SARS-CoV2 coronavirus, which on its own has none of the negative effects of the virus itself.
    “What’s really reassuring about these mRNA vaccines, the mRNA never even goes into the nucleus, the part of the cell contains all of your own DNA and instructions,” Riordan added.
    All science aside, do you trust yourself? Do you trust your environment? Do you make all of your decisions based on science?
    Now for the science.
    These vaccines are only months on the table. Get your head around that. Months
    They are still studying the ramifications of the Black Plague. they are still studying the Spanish Flu of 1913.
    It took almost two years to get the polio vaccine to market. Small pox the same. But they made sure it was safe. they are still studying the long term affects of those two shots.
    Remember that word: Months, a few weeks
    YOU are the lab rat for a test.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
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    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    All science aside, do you trust yourself? Do you trust your environment? Do you make all of your decisions based on science?
    Now for the science.
    These vaccines are only months on the table. Get your head around that. Months
    They are still studying the ramifications of the Black Plague. they are still studying the Spanish Flu of 1913.
    It took almost two years to get the polio vaccine to market. Small pox the same. But they made sure it was safe. they are still studying the long term affects of those two shots.
    Remember that word: Months, a few weeks
    YOU are the lab rat for a test.
    I don't trust myself on the issue of vaccine safety. I trust the experts.

    Bad side-effects from vaccines generally show up within 2 months after administration. We have about 6 months of data from several hundred million doses and the data looks very good so far.

    There are rare cases of allergic reactions that are treatable.

    If there is any scientific evidence published in a peer-reviewed journal claiming that these vaccines can alter one's DNA I would like to see it. I am skeptical of what is reported on blogs that don't have any peer-review

    and make claims that conflict with what the vast majority of experts say.


    Dr. Doug Corrigan made this claim:

    "It is well known that RNA can be “reverse transcribed” into DNA. Residing in our cells are enzymes called “reverse transcriptases”. These enzymes convert RNA into DNA. Multiple sources for this class of enzymes exist within our cells. These reverse transcriptases are normally made by other viruses termed “retroviruses”. HIV is a retrovirus and so is Hepatitis B, but there are many other retroviruses that fall in this category. In addition to these external viruses, there are viruses that are hard-wired into our genomic DNA called endogenous retroviruses (ERVs). These ERVs harbor instructions to produce reverse transcriptase. In addition to ERVs, there are mobile genetic elements residing in our DNA called LTR-retrotransposons that also encode for reverse transcriptase enzymes. To top it all off, reverse transcriptase is naturally used by our cells to extend the telomeres at the end of chromosomes."

    A form of reverse transcriptase (telemorase) does exist inside pluripotent stem cells and in activated lymphocytes. Otherwise, telemorase does not exist in differentiated cells such as those that make up the arm
    where the vaccine is given.

    From the skepticalraptor.com article cited earlier by me:

    Now, Corrigan is claiming that there are “endogenous retroviruses” that are hardwired into our DNA. That is true – about 8% of the human DNA comes from viruses during our long evolutionary past. In other words, retroviruses added genes that conferred some evolutionary advantage to humans and so were kept around. It’s a fascinating subject in evolution.
    But let’s be clear – there is no evidence that the reverse transcriptase enzyme has been hard-wired into our DNA. Corrigan is trying to convince us that the endogenous retroviruses are fully capable of producing reverse transcriptase. What he fails to understand is that only some genes from retroviruses are incorporated into our DNA, not a whole virus. I could find no evidence of reverse transcriptase running wild in the cell nucleus.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s414...ic%20therapies.

    Human endogenous retroviruses (HERVs) are inherited genetic germline elements derived from exogenous retroviral infections throughout the evolution of the human genome, and account for ~8% of our genome1,2. The majority of HERVs are defective due to evolutionarily acquired disruption or silencing mutations2,3

    Human endogenous retroviruses (HERV) form a substantial part of the human genome, but mostly remain transcriptionally silent under strict epigenetic regulation.




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    Dr. Paul Offit, "Can mRNA Vaccines Alter a Person's DNA?

    https://www.chop.edu/centers-program...-a-persons-dna


    So right now, and this January 12th of 2021, we have two vaccines that are currently being used in the United States, both are messenger RNA vaccines. Can that messenger RNA, after it's taken up into the cell, alter our DNA? So, here's how it works. The messenger RNA is incased in a small lipid droplet, a so-called lipid nanoparticle, a fatty nanoparticle that then is taken up by the cell, and that lipid droplet is then stripped away. The messenger RNA is then translated to a protein in the cytoplasm of the cell. Now, DNA is not in the cytoplasm of the cell, it's in the nucleus of the cell. So, in order for the mRNA, the messenger RNA, to get into the nucleus, first it has to cross the nuclear membrane, which means it requires a nuclear access signal, kind of like a lock and a key, or a key and a lock, and it doesn't have that. Therefore, it actually can't ever get into the nucleus. But even if it could get into the nucleus, it's RNA, it's not DNA; it's a different language. So it needs to be then reverse transcribed to DNA. In order to do that, it requires the enzyme reverse transcriptase, which it doesn't have. So, it can't really get into the nucleus where the DNA resides, and messenger RNA doesn't really have the enzyme that allows it to be reversed transcribed to DNA. Even if it were reversed transcribed to DNA, which it's not because it can't be, it would still need to integrate into the DNA with an enzyme called integrase, which it also doesn't have.

    So for all three reasons, the fact that the mRNA can't enter the nucleus; the fact that the mRNA isn't DNA and would need to be translated or reverse transcribed back to DNA; and because it can't be integrated into DNA, it is not possible for messenger RNA to alter DNA. The chance of that happening is not small — it's zero. It is not possible.


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    I'm skeptical about skeptical mike's answers.

    They always represent the point of view that Democrats are trying to promote. That makes it probably cut & paste selective information.

    After all Skeptical Mike says he is an expert on Global Warming, COVID and all things scientific.

    Why would we doubt that this one guy has all the answers? LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalmike View Post
    I don't trust myself on the issue of vaccine safety. I trust the experts.

    Bad side-effects from vaccines generally show up within 2 months after administration. We have about 6 months of data from several hundred million doses and the data looks very good so far.

    There are rare cases of allergic reactions that are treatable.

    If there is any scientific evidence published in a peer-reviewed journal claiming that these vaccines can alter one's DNA I would like to see it. I am skeptical of what is reported on blogs that don't have any peer-review

    and make claims that conflict with what the vast majority of experts say.


    Dr. Doug Corrigan made this claim:

    "It is well known that RNA can be “reverse transcribed” into DNA. Residing in our cells are enzymes called “reverse transcriptases”. These enzymes convert RNA into DNA. Multiple sources for this class of enzymes exist within our cells. These reverse transcriptases are normally made by other viruses termed “retroviruses”. HIV is a retrovirus and so is Hepatitis B, but there are many other retroviruses that fall in this category. In addition to these external viruses, there are viruses that are hard-wired into our genomic DNA called endogenous retroviruses (ERVs). These ERVs harbor instructions to produce reverse transcriptase. In addition to ERVs, there are mobile genetic elements residing in our DNA called LTR-retrotransposons that also encode for reverse transcriptase enzymes. To top it all off, reverse transcriptase is naturally used by our cells to extend the telomeres at the end of chromosomes."

    A form of reverse transcriptase (telemorase) does exist inside pluripotent stem cells and in activated lymphocytes. Otherwise, telemorase does not exist in differentiated cells such as those that make up the arm
    where the vaccine is given.

    From the skepticalraptor.com article cited earlier by me:

    Now, Corrigan is claiming that there are “endogenous retroviruses” that are hardwired into our DNA. That is true – about 8% of the human DNA comes from viruses during our long evolutionary past. In other words, retroviruses added genes that conferred some evolutionary advantage to humans and so were kept around. It’s a fascinating subject in evolution.
    But let’s be clear – there is no evidence that the reverse transcriptase enzyme has been hard-wired into our DNA. Corrigan is trying to convince us that the endogenous retroviruses are fully capable of producing reverse transcriptase. What he fails to understand is that only some genes from retroviruses are incorporated into our DNA, not a whole virus. I could find no evidence of reverse transcriptase running wild in the cell nucleus.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s414...ic%20therapies.

    Human endogenous retroviruses (HERVs) are inherited genetic germline elements derived from exogenous retroviral infections throughout the evolution of the human genome, and account for ~8% of our genome1,2. The majority of HERVs are defective due to evolutionarily acquired disruption or silencing mutations2,3

    Human endogenous retroviruses (HERV) form a substantial part of the human genome, but mostly remain transcriptionally silent under strict epigenetic regulation.



    These experts have been culled from the same pool as those claiming Florida would be under water by now.
    You are a lab rat. Get your head around that. You have NO idea what is in the future for those who take the shot. You really have no idea what is in the shot.
    The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
    I'll wait to see if I take it or not.
    If it is so good, why are they threatening and trying to coerce us into taking it?
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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