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Thread: University of California system will no longer consider SAT, ACT scores in admissions

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    Most colleges have been using holistic admissions criteria for years, considering a variety of factors, including high school grades, high school course rigor, recommendations, extracurriculars, standardized test scores, etc. Test scores have become less and less of a factor even before schools stopped requiring them, and most colleges said they gave a combination of high school rigor and grades the most weight.
    It was the opposite for me. I didn't like high school, was happy with Cs. When later on I figured college would get me ahead, it was SAT scores got me in, and I did well.

    I suspect Woke advocates will find those holistic criteria just as discriminatory.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    In general, admissions are moving away from standardized testing. Graduate programs for 2020 and 2021 largely waived GRE/GMAT requirements because it is not a totally awesome predictor of performance or ability, and this was already a trend (I took the GRE but did not need it for the program I ended up entering). They want to look at GPA, work and volunteer history, essays, writing samples, research, and so on. For both undergraduate and graduate admissions, there are many different things to look at and the formula they use only puts minor emphasis on test scores (e.g., like 5-8% weight on the decision tree).

    Generally, standardized testing is also just a racket for a handful of companies. The costs of buying the necessary study guides, tutoring/coaching, the cost of taking it, the cost of submitting scores in some instances, and on and on, generally goes to the same few companies. The number of GRE study guides I have is obscene and this all also represents a barrier for students who do not have the ability to get the materials or pay for multiple retakes (which is common). ETS, the company that is responsible for the GRE, sees about $1 billion per year because each test is $190. As with the SAT/ACT, research has shown how the GRE correlates to GPA and to performance in graduate school, and GPA is fine on its own as a predictor of success. Subject tests show some value, though, which is also why the LSAT and MCAT are going to likely stick around as the GRE gets dropped.

    Of course, grade inflation needs to be addressed at all levels of education. I am a merit scholar and I probably shouldn't be, but getting a 4.0 GPA in university (undergrad and grad school) is largely just following instructions and being on time. The application process for our clinical placements includes writing samples (e.g., deidentified psychological assessments/reports), likely because that's how you figure out who is actually on their game and who is just playing the game well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    It was the opposite for me. I didn't like high school, was happy with Cs. When later on I figured college would get me ahead, it was SAT scores got me in, and I did well.

    I suspect Woke advocates will find those holistic criteria just as discriminatory.
    Nah, this has been a movement for a while. The more holistic approach is already used with a certain strength given to test scores (sometimes it is just a way to weed out applicants and has no other bearing).
    FYIWDWYTM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    Nah, this has been a movement for a while. The more holistic approach is already used with a certain strength given to test scores (sometimes it is just a way to weed out applicants and has no other bearing).
    Holistic should include test scores, not exclude.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Holistic should include test scores, not exclude.
    My professors are literally experts in assessments, evaluations and testing procedures, and they will be the first ones to say that these tests hold value but not a lot (which they have said, repeatedly). Aptitude testing suggests someone can probably do something, not that they will or that they will do it well.

    But... they are a barrier to education in terms of costs and access, and not a very valuable barrier when research continues to demonstrate that GPA and other variables are better predictors of success.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    My professors are literally experts in assessments, evaluations and testing procedures, and they will be the first ones to say that these tests hold value but not a lot (which they have said, repeatedly). Aptitude testing suggests someone can probably do something, not that they will or that they will do it well.

    But... they are a barrier to education in terms of costs and access, and not a very valuable barrier when research continues to demonstrate that GPA and other variables are better predictors of success.

    Right, but those educational concerns are not the reason for excluding them, at least not the reason behind the lawsuits in California, that is Wokeism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Right, but those educational concerns are not the reason for excluding them, at least not the reason behind the lawsuits in California, that is Wokeism.
    I'm not going to discuss race but it does negatively impact low-income families to have a test system in place where you have to spend a lot of money for tutoring, books/study guides, administration(s), and so on. And again, there are a small group of educational companies that own the market and take advantage of being able to charge ridiculous amounts for their study materials (meaning you can't even study on your own and skip paying for a tutor without significant costs).

    Also, now that I am doing assessments I know that parents abuse the system to get accommodations for their children while poorer families cannot afford assessments for ADHD, learning disabilities, and more, and cannot get accommodations without proof of such. You can't even get financial aid for assistance in the classroom (e.g., IDEA) without proof from a psychologist. I live in an area of extreme competition and it's a running joke among psychologists that if you want to get rich you can just set up testing for ADHD and test accommodations. For 6 hours of my time conducting a neuropsychological evaluation, you're looking at a bill of $2400 (I am inexperienced, so likely closer to $2000) which may not be covered by insurance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    They will probably consider your social score
    Academic scoring is obviously White Supremacy (ignore the Asians) Racism!

    Recall they tried to destroy the SAT system not long ago with adjusted "Social" factor scoring. Claiming poverty plus favored minority status would give your extra points. There was enough blowback at the time to prevent this from happening.

    So now they just get rid of SAT altogether!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    I'm not going to discuss race but it does negatively impact low-income families to have a test system in place where you have to spend a lot of money for tutoring, books/study guides, administration(s), and so on. And again, there are a small group of educational companies that own the market and take advantage of being able to charge ridiculous amounts for their study materials (meaning you can't even study on your own and skip paying for a tutor without significant costs).

    Also, now that I am doing assessments I know that parents abuse the system to get accommodations for their children while poorer families cannot afford assessments for ADHD, learning disabilities, and more, and cannot get accommodations without proof of such. You can't even get financial aid for assistance in the classroom (e.g., IDEA) without proof from a psychologist. I live in an area of extreme competition and it's a running joke among psychologists that if you want to get rich you can just set up testing for ADHD and test accommodations. For 6 hours of my time conducting a neuropsychological evaluation, you're looking at a bill of $2400 (I am inexperienced, so likely closer to $2000) which may not be covered by insurance.

    I spent zero time preparing for SATs. Never figured it was something to study for.

    If they want to prep then blacks are just as capable of making the money as anyone else.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    They will probably consider your social score
    Isn't that a Chinese Communist thing?
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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