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Thread: May 31st, 1921...The Tulsa Massacre

  1. #131
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    Jeb!'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Jim Crow originated as a racial epithet in the North.
    An untold story is how many black office holders there were during Reconstruction. Instead, we are to believe the US went straight to Jim Crow after the Civil War. Jim Crow Laws possibly don't happen if the Union soldiers that became government officials (such as "carpetbagger" governors) weren't corrupt.
    I am the President-Elect of the United States.

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  3. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeb! View Post
    An untold story is how many black office holders there were during Reconstruction. Instead, we are to believe the US went straight to Jim Crow after the Civil War. Jim Crow Laws possibly don't happen if the Union soldiers that became government officials (such as "carpetbagger" governors) weren't corrupt.
    And those black officeholders were Republican.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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  5. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeb! View Post
    "Northern Democrats" were often racist too. Hiester Clymer was a good example of that. Now, both parties have changed positions a lot over the last 150 years, so I'm not trying to say that any of this is entirely relevant today. However, I take issue with you calling true statements a lie. Like, are you going to tell fifth graders that Oklahoma wasn't a Democratic state in the 1920's? Come on now. There was not actually a lot of daylight between what you call "progressives" and what you would call "dixiecrats." The first governor of Oklahoma Charles Haskell for example had progressive tendencies, but also instituted Jim Crow Laws.
    There were several northern slaves states as well; what's your point? And what lie? That Democrats are racist? Oklahoma was NOT a truly Progressive Democratic state: I've already covered that. Radicals took over the party and changed the platform.

    The lie is - trying to equate today's Democratic party with racism and slavery. Today's Republicans are not the same either.

    So, get off the kick and be honest about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    [C]omparing Old Civil Rights Democrats with the Antebellum south is lying.
    "[T]he antebellum south" is the South that existed prior to the US Civil War (which began in 1861).

    I really do not think that anyone is making a comparison that includes Democrats from 160 years ago.

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  8. #135
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    Correction: It is not quite correct to say that "Tula was the name of a friend of mine, in the 1970s."

    Rather, I should have written that Tula (short, I would imagine, for Petulia) was the wife of a friend of mine in the 1970s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    "[T]he antebellum south" is the South that existed prior to the US Civil War (which began in 1861).

    I really do not think that anyone is making a comparison that includes Democrats from 160 years ago.

    The real lie here is some do try to make the opposite claim, that Republicans, or conservatives, have always been racist--and doing so with scant evidence, historical or otherwise.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The real lie here is some do try to make the opposite claim, that Republicans, or conservatives, have always been racist--and doing so with scant evidence, historical or otherwise.
    Fifty years ago, the standard for non-racism was equality; We were to judge others by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin, to paraphrase Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And all were to be treated equally under the law.

    Nowadays, the new standard is equity--which is to say, guaranteed equal outcomes. (Merit has nothing to do with it. Not anymore.)

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  14. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    Fifty years ago, the standard for non-racism was equality; We were to judge others by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin, to paraphrase Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And all were to be treated equally under the law.

    Nowadays, the new standard is equity--which is to say, guaranteed equal outcomes. (Merit has nothing to do with it. Not anymore.)
    Equity is racist. Like quotas in colleges, unconstitutional.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeb! View Post
    You didn't say Dixiecrats shot up Tulsa. You "disagreed" with someone who said Oklahoma was controlled by Democrats by bringing up the dixiecrats.
    I disagreed with a guy is is pushing a lie about today's Democrats and trying to link them with the Tulsa Massacre. The "Dixicrats" from the school of deep southern racism. A south AND a party that had a member named Thomas Jefferson. So you all need to be careful with that lie: it backfires on you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    "Tula" was the name of a friend of mine, in the 1970s...
    When did I say that Dixiecrats shot up Tulsa?

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