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Thread: Why does the Left hate the working class?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Judges have used equity in cases long before CLT came around. Also state bars have long set up funds for legal aid for those who couldn't afford a lawyer. Some big law firms require their associates to do pro bono work.

    CLT is just a branch of CT. I am not sure that it is taken seriously in the legal field outside of academia. Practicing lawyers are too busy locating the witness named "Mr. Green."
    CLT wouldn't exist if there wasn't a rather large body of legal evidence to at least partially substantiate their allegations. Whether lawyers take it seriously isn't really the point. It formed much of the foundation for CRT because so many of the cases where the law was effectively manipulated by extraneous factors, actively disfavored black people.

    Legal aid sounds wonderful, but frequently amounts to a lawyer going through the motions and trying to expedite cases by encouraging plea bargains. Since legal associates tend to carry high case loads, that pro bono work is often more for show than for substance, unless the case is high profile enough to bring some sort of prestige to the firm. The adage that "you get what you pay for" is particularly true when it comes to legal representation.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    CLT wouldn't exist if there wasn't a rather large body of legal evidence to at least partially substantiate their allegations. Whether lawyers take it seriously isn't really the point. It formed much of the foundation for CRT because so many of the cases where the law was effectively manipulated by extraneous factors, actively disfavored black people.

    Legal aid sounds wonderful, but frequently amounts to a lawyer going through the motions and trying to expedite cases by encouraging plea bargains. Since legal associates tend to carry high case loads, that pro bono work is often more for show than for substance, unless the case is high profile enough to bring some sort of prestige to the firm. The adage that "you get what you pay for" is particularly true when it comes to legal representation.
    You are placing too much faith in theories that were started via KGB information operations to destabilize the West.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    You are placing too much faith in theories that were started via KGB information operations to destabilize the West.
    Placing to much in the theory.....period. All critical legal theorists share a deep cynicism about many of the important questions of legal theory. Fundamentally they reject many of the assumptions of both the legal and political order: for example, the free market, ‘meta-narratives’, and male or racial domination.
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Judges have used equity in cases long before CLT came around. Also state bars have long set up funds for legal aid for those who couldn't afford a lawyer. Some big law firms require their associates to do pro bono work.

    CLT is just a branch of CT. I am not sure that it is taken seriously in the legal field outside of academia. Practicing lawyers are too busy locating the witness named "Mr. Green."

    Yea, I was going to ask if you've ever experience Critical Legal Theory in court or whether it's just academic.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The wealthy and powerful do use the law to maintain their place in the hierarchy - how else do you explain all the legislation that directly benefits big business and all the tax loop holes that benefit the wealthy and powerful. They use their wealth to buy favorable law - not by directly paying politicians but by helping to pay for their political campaigns. They also use their vast resources to challenge laws they don't like or manipulate them with skillful legal teams to defeat less well heeled defendants. That's all part of crony capitalism.
    Right, and that is called corruption, always has been, crony capitalism. Nothing to do with CLT.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    CLT wouldn't exist if there wasn't a rather large body of legal evidence to at least partially substantiate their allegations. Whether lawyers take it seriously isn't really the point. It formed much of the foundation for CRT because so many of the cases where the law was effectively manipulated by extraneous factors, actively disfavored black people.

    Legal aid sounds wonderful, but frequently amounts to a lawyer going through the motions and trying to expedite cases by encouraging plea bargains. Since legal associates tend to carry high case loads, that pro bono work is often more for show than for substance, unless the case is high profile enough to bring some sort of prestige to the firm. The adage that "you get what you pay for" is particularly true when it comes to legal representation.

    You really need to spend some time reading about Critical Theory. It is not based on evidence. It is a narrative that sounds interesting and alarming but has no basic in reality. Remember, Critical THeory doesn't invlove critical thinking.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    You are placing too much faith in theories that were started via KGB information operations to destabilize the West.
    So 90% of all criminal cases are not plea bargained? A disproportionate number of wrongly convicted defendants are not black? The law hasn't historically disfavored black people in favor of white people? Even if the KGB pushed this to destabilize the west, or the US, sometimes the most persuasive and damaging information is the truth. While CLT's conclusions may be seen to lack reasonable analysis, tending to have been reverse engineered to support their premises and suffering from the exclusion of contradictory data, there is certainly some truth to the fact that belief in the integrity and fundamental impartiality of the legal system has often been misplaced and that political or ideological factors have too often produced injustice.

    By the way, the term 'white privilege' which causes so many to bristle with resentment, was not invented by CLT (CLS) or CRT, but first coined in 1942 by Ramananda Chatterjee in Modern Review magazine, where he commented on Winston Churchill's policy positions in India: "Mr. Churchill can support white privilege and monopoly in India whilst opposing privilege and monopoly on both sides of the Atlantic." Then it appeared again in 1943, in sociologist Alfred McClung Lee's 'Race Riot, Detroit 1943' which addressed the "Nazi-like guarantee of white privilege" in American society. CRT also borrows from W.E.B. Du Bois' work in his 1935 'Black Reconstruction in America' and the writings of various academics, who have since the 19th century, been addressing 'white superiority', 'white hegemony' and 'white skin privilege' in reference to European colonialism. These authors were not prompted by the KGB to address the topic, since the KGB was only formed in 1954. In fact, CRT is the organization of ideas from past works on the topic, including CLT (CLS) and its antecedent, legal realism.

    The current furor over CRT, which has been largely ignored since it was given a name in 1989, has less to do with the theory, as the nature of the 'remedial educational programs' that have been developed to supposedly address and correct the historical injustice in a reaction to far more recent political activism, which includes the flawed 1619 Project.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    You are placing too much faith in theories that were started via KGB information operations to destabilize the West.
    No bucket of Democrat holy water is too big for Dr. Who to carry.

    Cutesy Time is OVER

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Right, and that is called corruption, always has been, crony capitalism. Nothing to do with CLT.
    It has everything to do with CLT (CLS), which deals with the practical realities of the application of law and the influences that pervert it.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    So 90% of all criminal cases are not plea bargained? A disproportionate number of wrongly convicted defendants are not black? The law hasn't historically disfavored black people in favor of white people? Even if the KGB pushed this to destabilize the west, or the US, sometimes the most persuasive and damaging information is the truth. While CLT's conclusions may be seen to lack reasonable analysis, tending to have been reverse engineered to support their premises and suffering from the exclusion of contradictory data, there is certainly some truth to the fact that belief in the integrity and fundamental impartiality of the legal system has often been misplaced and that political or ideological factors have too often produced injustice.

    By the way, the term 'white privilege' which causes so many to bristle with resentment, was not invented by CLT (CLS) or CRT, but first coined in 1942 by Ramananda Chatterjee in Modern Review magazine, where he commented on Winston Churchill's policy positions in India: "Mr. Churchill can support white privilege and monopoly in India whilst opposing privilege and monopoly on both sides of the Atlantic." Then it appeared again in 1943, in sociologist Alfred McClung Lee's 'Race Riot, Detroit 1943' which addressed the "Nazi-like guarantee of white privilege" in American society. CRT also borrows from W.E.B. Du Bois' work in his 1935 'Black Reconstruction in America' and the writings of various academics, who have since the 19th century, been addressing 'white superiority', 'white hegemony' and 'white skin privilege' in reference to European colonialism. These authors were not prompted by the KGB to address the topic, since the KGB was only formed in 1954. In fact, CRT is the organization of ideas from past works on the topic, including CLT (CLS) and its antecedent, legal realism.

    The current furor over CRT, which has been largely ignored since it was given a name in 1989, has less to do with the theory, as the nature of the 'remedial educational programs' that have been developed to supposedly address and correct the historical injustice in a reaction to far more recent political activism, which includes the flawed 1619 Project.
    The bolded, without checking that is likely correct. My question would be how many of those people were innocent but took the deal because it was easier / cheaper than fighting the charges versus those who were guilty.
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