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Thread: Civilization, its Motives and Our Understanding

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    Civilization, its Motives and Our Understanding

    … Civilization has accomplished things of which the old gentile society was not remotely capable. But it accomplished them by setting in motion the most sordid instincts and passions of man, and by developing them at the expense of all his other faculties. Naked greed has been the moving spirit of civilization from its first day to the present time; wealth, wealth and wealth again; wealth, not of society, but of this shabby individual was its sole determining aim. If, in the pursuit of this aim, the increasing development of science and repeated periods of the fullest blooming of art fell into its lap, it was only because without them the ample present-day achievements in the accumulation of wealth would have been impossible.

    Since the exploitation of one class by another is the basis of civilization, its whole development moves in a continuous contradiction. Every advance in production is at the same time a retrogression in the condition of the oppressed class, that is, of the great majority. What is a boon for the one is necessarily a bane for the other; each new emancipation of one class means a new oppression of another class. The most striking proof of this is furnished by the introduction of machinery, the effects of which are today known throughout the world. And while among barbarians, as we have seen, hardly any distinction could be made between rights and duties, civilization makes the difference and antithesis between these two plain even to the dullest mind by assigning to one class pretty nearly all the rights, and to the other class pretty nearly all the duties.

    But this is not as it ought to be. What is good for the ruling class should be good for the whole of the society with which the ruling class identifies itself. Therefore, the more civilization advances, the more it is compelled to cover the ills it necessarily creates with the cloak of love, to embellish them, or to deny their existence; in short, to introduce conventional hypocrisy — unknown either in previous forms of society or even in the earliest stages of civilization — that eventually culminates in the declaration: The exploiting class exploits the oppressed class solely and exclusively in the interest of the exploited class itself; and if the latter fails to appreciate this, and even becomes rebellious, it thereby shows the basest ingratitude to its benefactors, the exploiters.


    Frederick Engels, "The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State", 1884

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    I think we've come a long way since 1884 , when this was written.......at least many of us have .

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    A COPY/PASTE directly from a Communist propaganda book ???
    No amplifying personal comments ???
    No reason why you chose to do this ???
    Not even a statement why you posted it ???
    No words of your own stating and supporting why you did this ???

    You just come in here and drop a turd in our punch bowl and sit back and see what happens ???

    ********************************************

    I once thought I could at least have an intelligent and respectful conversation with this member when they first joined.

    I was wrong. Their head is full of Communist propaganda and they are incapable of seeing or hearing anything else.

    Completely predictable one trick pony.

    This makes THREE members like this one here so far.

    ...and one of the ponies was the first to reply.

    ****************************************

    So..in reply can I post a page from the USMC Sniper Training manual ?
    Last edited by Retirednsmilin308; 06-28-2021 at 03:37 AM.
    When it is not allowed to be questioned, it is not science, it is PROPAGANDA

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    When it is not allowed to be questioned, it is not science, it is PROPAGANDA

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    In this quote, Engels explains in short and with simple words, what human science has approved, or what the demagogues have tried to cover.

    The essence of capitalists propaganda has remained the same: Workers should thank the capitalist for giving them jobs and paying them.

    But there is no need for the capitalist - a person who has no motivation other than greed. A worker association can offer the society better services and put people's interests above any selfish reason. An institution which is made by joining together these worker associations can replace the current governments and the whole capitalistic system which is run by anarchy in production and distribution and through a competition of different producers who try to ruin each other's businesses.

    A society which is run by greed can and should be replaced by a society which aims to improve the quality of life of any member, live in harmony with nature, equalize personal achievement with society's achievement.

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    Engels was wrong. Butt-hurt perhaps.

    This whole class warfare crap is just that- crap.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Tough topic as most react rather than think. This bad this good mentality. But look around some time and see the poverty and the lack of resources for many people. Healthcare for one. Some live this way through their own fault, but judging that is kinda hard as where would you be had you their life? Jesus wrote in the sand a thought. Interesting read below more up to date.

    'The American Way of Poverty: How the Other Half Still Lives' Sasha Abramsky


    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...way-of-poverty


    'The Unconscious Civilization' by John Ralston Saul

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...s_Civilization


    "The greatest drama we have imposed on ourselves is our willful misinterpretation of consciousness. The Socratic conviction was that virtues were forms of knowledge and therefore no man willingly does wrong. What I said in Voltaire's $#@!s about our modern elites was that, by abandoning humanism in favour of an ideology of reason, they had inverted the equation. Now they justify doing wrong because they do know. This rational sophistication makes them passive, terrified of uncertainty, unable to change when faced by reality, ready to accept the worst...You might call this profound cynicism: the mindset of the courtier or consultant or advisor. In any case, they believe themselves to be immobilized by what they know. This, they think, is professional behaviour. To be precise, they know so much that they believe it would be amateurish or emotive to do anything much about the environment, global warming, poverty, debt, to mention just a few problems." 'Voltaire's $#@!s: The Dictatorship of Reason in the West' John Ralston Saul
    Wanna make America great, buy American owned, made in the USA, we do. AF Veteran, INFJ-A, I am not PC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Javad View Post
    In this quote, Engels explains in short and with simple words, what human science has approved, or what the demagogues have tried to cover.

    The essence of capitalists propaganda has remained the same: Workers should thank the capitalist for giving them jobs and paying them.

    But there is no need for the capitalist - a person who has no motivation other than greed. A worker association can offer the society better services and put people's interests above any selfish reason. An institution which is made by joining together these worker associations can replace the current governments and the whole capitalistic system which is run by anarchy in production and distribution and through a competition of different producers who try to ruin each other's businesses.

    A society which is run by greed can and should be replaced by a society which aims to improve the quality of life of any member, live in harmony with nature, equalize personal achievement with society's achievement.

    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Collateral Damage (06-30-2021),MMC (06-28-2021)

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    A loser gives a stupid opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    Tough topic as most react rather than think. This bad this good mentality. But look around some time and see the poverty and the lack of resources for many people. Healthcare for one. Some live this way through their own fault, but judging that is kinda hard as where would you be had you their life? Jesus wrote in the sand a thought. Interesting read below more up to date.

    'The American Way of Poverty: How the Other Half Still Lives' Sasha Abramsky


    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...way-of-poverty


    'The Unconscious Civilization' by John Ralston Saul

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...s_Civilization


    "The greatest drama we have imposed on ourselves is our willful misinterpretation of consciousness. The Socratic conviction was that virtues were forms of knowledge and therefore no man willingly does wrong. What I said in Voltaire's $#@!s about our modern elites was that, by abandoning humanism in favour of an ideology of reason, they had inverted the equation. Now they justify doing wrong because they do know. This rational sophistication makes them passive, terrified of uncertainty, unable to change when faced by reality, ready to accept the worst...You might call this profound cynicism: the mindset of the courtier or consultant or advisor. In any case, they believe themselves to be immobilized by what they know. This, they think, is professional behaviour. To be precise, they know so much that they believe it would be amateurish or emotive to do anything much about the environment, global warming, poverty, debt, to mention just a few problems." 'Voltaire's $#@!s: The Dictatorship of Reason in the West' John Ralston Saul
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

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