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Thread: Holy $#@!, Canada's having an election! But why?

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    Holy $#@!, Canada's having an election! But why?

    I mean they basically agree on everything anyway, so what's the point?

    Seriously, I was recommended a live cast of the English-language federal leaders' debate the other day...



    ...and what stuck out to me the most was the uniformity of opinion among them. With the sole exception of the Bloc Quebecois leader Yves-Francois Blanchet, all the other candidates are essentially running on variations of the governing Liberal Party's program: scaled-up versions were offered by Jagmeet Singh of the New Democrats and Annamie Paul of the Greens while a scaled-down version was offered by Conservative leader Erin O'Toole. The baseline program on offer though seems to be the same across the board for all Canadian parties. Nobody's atually offering a different program. Except Blanchet on behalf of the Bloc. But that's because he represents Quebec, which, as of June 16th, is now officially recognized as a separate nation, no longer considered simply a province of Canada. He's not even seeking to be the Prime Minister of Canada like the rest of them; he's there simply to advocate for Quebec's national interests within the federal framework.

    As I watched this debate, Blanchet quickly emerged as my favorite of the leaders precisely because he was the one who dared to be different. Since English isn't first language, he sometimes struggled to translate his thoughts and accordingly had a very plain manner of speaking that was actually usually much easier to follow than how the other leaders (especially the polished bureaucrats of the bigger parties) communicated, IMO. I liked his simple, straightforward presentation of what struck me as a moderate, common sense kind of worldview within the framework of his distinctive goals. I didn't agree with his stance on just everything, but he came off to me as a human being, not a robotic ideologue.

    Because the Bloc's program stands out for not being socially liberal across the board, Blanchet, and frankly Quebec as a whole by proxy, faced breathtakingly blatant political discrimination and marginalization from multiple presenters (which he called out) on a level that honestly shocked me. Right off the bat, the very first question directed at Blanchet was...

    Mr. Blanchet, to you: You deny that Quebec has problems with racism, yet you defend legislation such as Bills 96 and 21 which marginalize religious minorities, Anglophones and Allophones. Quebec is recognized as a distinct society, but for those outside the province, please help them understand why your party also supports these discriminatory laws?
    For perspective, Bill 96 is a local proposition applicable only to Quebec that seeks to equalize the treatment of the French language, which prevails in Quebec, therein by banning most large and medium-sized businesses in Quebec from offering services exclusively in other languages (such as English, for example; the prevailing language in Canada). Bill 21 is a local Quebec bill that prohibits government employees from wearing ostentatious religious symbols (such as giant cross necklaces, burqas, or turbans) while on the job. These are the "discriminatory laws" of which the presenter spoke. The query forced Blanchet to remind the presenter that his was officially recognized as a nation and not a "distinct society", whatever that means; not a mere province of Canada, and also to rebuke the notion that Quebecers are collectively racists for overwhelmingly supporting laws preserving their common language against English encroachment from without and the local separation of church and state. I found the boundless obnoxiousness of this kind of official wokeness, and the ironic utilization of it to justify transparent Canadian national chauvinism, absolutely insufferable, and so apparently did the people of Quebec, as by the following morning the Premier of Quebec had requested an apology and the leaders of Canada's two main parties, Trudeau and O'Toole, had both made public statements denouncing the notion that Quebecers are collectively racists...



    ...though, again, notably Trudeau and O'Toole waited until the following day to offer solidarity, as if to perhaps gauge the public response first before deciding their opinion. Anyway, this was the kind of treatment that he, and Quebec, received broadly, and it continued even in the CBC's post-debate coverage later in the evening, in which I noticed that Blanchet was scarcely mentioned and de-contextualized the one time his partication was even brought up. There is indeed a bigoted nation here, but it's not the historically colonized, and apparently still marginalized, Quebec.

    To my immense satisfaction, Mr. Blanchet did force an opportunity to briefly but specifically defend Bill 21 eventually, and had this to say of it: "Quebec wants religion out of the state affairs because religion never protected equality for women, and..never..will." Truer words were never spoken and I never thought I'd see the day that someone would have the audacity to speak that kind of controversial truth in a debate of party leaders for any country! Ask the women of Afghanistan if they feel liberated by the burqa, for example. Many women are forced by their husbands to conceal every inch of their bodies for shame of being female like that and might frankly find something like Bill 21 a nice excuse they can throw back to avoid doing so for at least part of their day. Either way, it's not the message to young girls and women that the state should be supporting. I like and respect the secularism of majority French-speaking countries like France and Quebec. Detractors will speak of discrimination against beliefs, but they'll never say a thing about the way those beliefs discriminate against actual people; namely women. People matter more than opinions, and especially groundless ones. For the daring frankness of this take alone, I'd support Blanchet's party in a heartbeat were I a Quebecer, personally.

    Blanchet's perspective as the representative of a traditionally marginalized nation I felt became especially valuable when the treatment of indigenous nations was brought up. In response to an 18-year-old Ojibway first-time voter who asked all the leaders what they'll do to rebuild trust between his people and the federal government after 150 years of broken promises, Blanchet offered this clearly heartfelt opinion:

    Your question is quite moving. I would say that no one is entitled to tell any nation what to do or what to think and that every nation has to be recognized as such. Either [he meant 'whether'] it is a nation of 300 [indigenous] people like there is in Quebec or 8-million-people nation like Quebec is, it calls for a relationship between equals. It calls for a relationship in which nobody tells the other party that they are stronger, bigger, richer, and therefore you will do as you are told, even if we say it politely, and first you provide clean water to everybody.
    I found it quite powerful and a perspective born out of the kind of indisputable sincerity that could only come from someone in his position vis-a-vis the nation of Canada. Even if other leaders had spoken the exact same words, the impact wouldn't, and couldn't, have been the same. In fact, all of his remarks on the subject of first nations, even beyond these, seemed the most spot-on of all.

    I hope Blanchet's party does well in Quebec (which is the only place they campaign for obvious reasons). He comes off to me as an honest and straightforward person and offered a breath of fresh air from the predictable plastic phrases, political correctness, and generic styles and attack lines of the rest. Beyond that, I don't think I care what the outcome of this election is.
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 09-11-2021 at 11:02 PM.

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    Canadian Politics are strange, they elect people like a total junkie and dirtbag like Ford, then a ultra liberal phony kid Trudeau...and they get unhappy and want them out then they vote the identical kind of person back in.....I cant figure it out
    ALL LIVES MATTER..my life your life, our childrens lives, all childrens lives. To try and make it only SOME lives matter, divides us and fosters hatred and violence.

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    I guess Americans have been conditioned to believe , that in a two party system, the two parties are supposed to hate each other , and be at constant logger heads , while the country falls to pieces because of the total lack of consensus and co-operation ? I think you're on the right track by not caring who wins this election.......because , fundamentally , it should only be of concern to Canadians , and the US has it's own problems to sort out .

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJL View Post
    I guess Americans have been conditioned to believe , that in a two party system, the two parties are supposed to hate each other , and be at constant logger heads , while the country falls to pieces because of the total lack of consensus and co-operation ? I think you're on the right track by not caring who wins this election.......because , fundamentally , it should only be of concern to Canadians , and the US has it's own problems to sort out .
    while you support a One Party Rule: Communism
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
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    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    while you support a One Party Rule: Communism
    No . I'm still a full believer in the democratic capitalist system.......but it's so easily corrupted , when people aren't constantly vigilant . I think both our countries are top heavy with corruption and it's a major growing problem .....one of our biggest problems ...........and corporations is where it all comes from.

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    Yeah there wasn't much point in holding this election and the population clearly opposed doing so in the first place. That I think is the bottom-line message here when you look at how low the turnout was and also how similar the outcome was to that of 2019. To that end, one has to really dig for anything of interest here. Nevertheless, if you look hard enough, you can manage to find some interesting little details. I'll highlight some of them below:

    1) Prime Minister Trudeau was more popular before he called an election. Here's how the Liberals were doing before Prime Minister Trudeau called this election. As you can see here, the Liberals were averaging support in the upper 30s, benefiting from an effective vaccination campaign, among other things. But once the Liberal leader opted to politicize the matter, support dropped by several percentage points and never recovered. The people have wanted the Covid crisis to be a moment of unity wherein parties rise above politics and put their countries first.

    2) All Conservative pick-ups were in the east, while all their losses were in the western provinces (namely British Columbia and Alberta). See what I mean? This logically resembles a something of a long-term trend that's been happening here in the U.S. over the course of decades wherein Democratic Party strength is increasing slowly but primarily in the western part of the country.

    3) The People's Party vote didn't collapse like it did two years ago. The 5% vote share they got was lower than where they were polling, but that's typical of minor party support. The major parties are the Liberals, the Conservatives, and, in Quebec, the Bloc Quebecois. People want their votes to count and to that end more on-the-fence voters who indicate preference for minor parties often wind up actually voting for one of those three in the end. The result is that the major parties typically fare a little better once the votes are actually counted than they did in the polling, while minor parties typically fare a little worse in the actual vote than the had in the polling. But in 2019, People's Party support just straight-up collapsed when it came time to vote. Their final polling average had been 6.5%, but they actually wound up with just 1.6% of the vote, as their supporters reverted to their previous home in the Conservative Party. No such thing happened this time around: their polling average was similar here in 2021, but actual voter support fell only to a flat 5% in the end this time, indicating more disillusionment with the Conservatives on the right. This share of the vote may indeed have been the difference between the ability of the Conservatives to form a government and not, possibly. Nonetheless, PPC support was so thinly spread that the party once again failed to win any seats, so their campaign was just simply a drag on the conservative movement in practice. It may signal a need of the Tories to shift a bit rightward going forward in order to win back some of these voters, but not so far to the right as to alienate their more moderate branch in the process.

    4) Speaking of minor parties, Green Party support collapsed. In the 2019 election, Elizabeth May's Green Party had gotten a party record 6.55% of the vote and tripled their parliamentary representation from 1 to 3 seats amidst the ascendancy of the global Sunrise movement that benefited environmentalist parties the world over. The Sunrise movement has stalled though after the coronavirus outbreak and the new, social justice-oriented leadership of Annamie "my jaw dropped" Paul has added internal strife within the Canadian Greens to this mix. The result was a net loss of one seat in the federal parliament and their lowest vote share in 21 years: just 2.3%. Notably, Jenica Atwin, who was elected for the Greens in 2019 and defected to the Liberals earlier this year over the former's new position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, was re-elected for her new party, and former Green Party leader Elizabeth May won election to a fourth term in her riding as well. By contrast, current Green leader Annamie Paul failed in her third attempt to reach parliament, this time falling from second place in a by-election for the same riding last year to a distant fourth for the same seat. Of all parties, the Greens lost the most in terms of vote share, even falling by about half compared to 2019 in the hypothetical student vote. It goes to show that Paul is no Elizabeth May and to which end it is time for new leadership.

    5) The New Democrats can't unseat Liberals. As you can see at the link in point 2 above, the NDP picked up seats only where the incumbent was a Conservative and there was no serious competition from the Liberals. By contrast, Liberal candidates managed to unseat two NDP incumbents. This reveals an underlying weakness in the NDP; that they're dependent on extraordinary circumstances for advancement. In fact, their tie-breaking pick-up was a seat held by Green Party, showing really Canadian the left parasitizing itself. The NDP's marginally increased vote share, in fact, in this sense is directly attributable to a parallel, but steeper, drop in support for the Greens.

    6) The Bloc Quebecois had the only clean pick-up. The Bloc held onto every seat they'd won in 2019 and added one more, bringing them just one seat below the Liberals in Quebec; the only place they contest for obvious ideological reasons. All other parties with representation in the parliament won some new seats and also lost some. The BQ's support is the most stable, perhaps owing to their clearer message and cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    Canadian Politics are strange, they elect people like a total junkie and dirtbag like Ford, then a ultra liberal phony kid Trudeau...and they get unhappy and want them out then they vote the identical kind of person back in.....I cant figure it out
    Ford was at least entertaining. And he died from something unrelated to his alcohol and drug abuse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJL View Post
    I guess Americans have been conditioned to believe , that in a two party system, the two parties are supposed to hate each other , and be at constant logger heads , while the country falls to pieces because of the total lack of consensus and co-operation ? I think you're on the right track by not caring who wins this election.......because , fundamentally , it should only be of concern to Canadians , and the US has it's own problems to sort out .
    The US has a two party system because we do not have a parliamentary system.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Yeah there wasn't much point in holding this election and the population clearly opposed doing so in the first place. That I think is the bottom-line message here when you look at how low the turnout was and also how similar the outcome was to that of 2019. To that end, one has to really dig for anything of interest here. Nevertheless, if you look hard enough, you can manage to find some interesting little details. I'll highlight some of them below:

    1) Prime Minister Trudeau was more popular before he called an election. Here's how the Liberals were doing before Prime Minister Trudeau called this election. As you can see here, the Liberals were averaging support in the upper 30s, benefiting from an effective vaccination campaign, among other things. But once the Liberal leader opted to politicize the matter, support dropped by several percentage points and never recovered. The people have wanted the Covid crisis to be a moment of unity wherein parties rise above politics and put their countries first.

    2) All Conservative pick-ups were in the east, while all their losses were in the western provinces (namely British Columbia and Alberta). See what I mean? This logically resembles a something of a long-term trend that's been happening here in the U.S. over the course of decades wherein Democratic Party strength is increasing slowly but primarily in the western part of the country.

    3) The People's Party vote didn't collapse like it did two years ago. The 5% vote share they got was lower than where they were polling, but that's typical of minor party support. The major parties are the Liberals, the Conservatives, and, in Quebec, the Bloc Quebecois. People want their votes to count and to that end more on-the-fence voters who indicate preference for minor parties often wind up actually voting for one of those three in the end. The result is that the major parties typically fare a little better once the votes are actually counted than they did in the polling, while minor parties typically fare a little worse in the actual vote than the had in the polling. But in 2019, People's Party support just straight-up collapsed when it came time to vote. Their final polling average had been 6.5%, but they actually wound up with just 1.6% of the vote, as their supporters reverted to their previous home in the Conservative Party. No such thing happened this time around: their polling average was similar here in 2021, but actual voter support fell only to a flat 5% in the end this time, indicating more disillusionment with the Conservatives on the right. This share of the vote may indeed have been the difference between the ability of the Conservatives to form a government and not, possibly. Nonetheless, PPC support was so thinly spread that the party once again failed to win any seats, so their campaign was just simply a drag on the conservative movement in practice. It may signal a need of the Tories to shift a bit rightward going forward in order to win back some of these voters, but not so far to the right as to alienate their more moderate branch in the process.

    4) Speaking of minor parties, Green Party support collapsed. In the 2019 election, Elizabeth May's Green Party had gotten a party record 6.55% of the vote and tripled their parliamentary representation from 1 to 3 seats amidst the ascendancy of the global Sunrise movement that benefited environmentalist parties the world over. The Sunrise movement has stalled though after the coronavirus outbreak and the new, social justice-oriented leadership of Annamie "my jaw dropped" Paul has added internal strife within the Canadian Greens to this mix. The result was a net loss of one seat in the federal parliament and their lowest vote share in 21 years: just 2.3%. Notably, Jenica Atwin, who was elected for the Greens in 2019 and defected to the Liberals earlier this year over the former's new position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, was re-elected for her new party, and former Green Party leader Elizabeth May won election to a fourth term in her riding as well. By contrast, current Green leader Annamie Paul failed in her third attempt to reach parliament, this time falling from second place in a by-election for the same riding last year to a distant fourth for the same seat. Of all parties, the Greens lost the most in terms of vote share, even falling by about half compared to 2019 in the hypothetical student vote. It goes to show that Paul is no Elizabeth May and to which end it is time for new leadership.

    5) The New Democrats can't unseat Liberals. As you can see at the link in point 2 above, the NDP picked up seats only where the incumbent was a Conservative and there was no serious competition from the Liberals. By contrast, Liberal candidates managed to unseat two NDP incumbents. This reveals an underlying weakness in the NDP; that they're dependent on extraordinary circumstances for advancement. In fact, their tie-breaking pick-up was a seat held by Green Party, showing really Canadian the left parasitizing itself. The NDP's marginally increased vote share, in fact, in this sense is directly attributable to a parallel, but steeper, drop in support for the Greens.

    6) The Bloc Quebecois had the only clean pick-up. The Bloc held onto every seat they'd won in 2019 and added one more, bringing them just one seat below the Liberals in Quebec; the only place they contest for obvious ideological reasons. All other parties with representation in the parliament won some new seats and also lost some. The BQ's support is the most stable, perhaps owing to their clearer message and cause.
    Interesting about the Greens. The COVID crisis hurt them. They caved to the trend to use plastic bags over reusable bags. And they have been silent on all the mask litter much of which is making their way into rivers and the oceans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    The US has a two party system because we do not have a parliamentary system.
    I don't believe that . You have a two party system because it's easier for the Deepstate to control (and own) two parties , rather than a heap of Independants , that can be unpredictable ......also , it's easier for their corporate media lackys to get the voters argueing , and keep them distracted .

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