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Thread: Fascism

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    What I'm finding emphasized is a rejection of Marxist socialism rather than socialism per se both before and especially after Hitler joined the party. It's explicit in Nazi texts and speeches. National Socialism is the only true socialism.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    That's not to say that fascism and socialism aren't closely related both theoretically and practically but NS is kind of a unique animal.
    Well, fascism, with its corporatist structure included both employers and workers in each corporation* while socialism would replace owners with workers.

    (*I read the other day that that was the plan but employers and workers resisted working together so each corporation was split into an owners component and a workers component. Workers were represented by unions if I recall correctly.)

    As to Nazism adopting fascism, the 25-point “Programme of the Party” adopted in 1925 promised corporative institutions but didn't really hold to that as Hitler became dictator. See German Theories of the Corporative State for a brief overview..
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    What I'm finding emphasized is a rejection of Marxist socialism rather than socialism per se both before and especially after Hitler joined the party. It's explicit in Nazi texts and speeches. National Socialism is the only true socialism.
    Definitely, the contention in Germany between the World Wars was between national socialism and Marxist socialism (communism). They shared contempt for liberal democracy and capitalism but the Nazis thought socialism--and partly through corporatist institutions--could better be achieved nationally rather than globally or universally.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    I suppose fascism and Nazism were works in progress. Because of the war, it's hard to tell what a stable model would look like.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Definitely, the contention in Germany between the World Wars was between national socialism and Marxist socialism (communism). They shared contempt for liberal democracy and capitalism but the Nazis thought socialism--and partly through corporatist institutions--could better be achieved nationally rather than globally or universally.
    The Nazis justified banning labor unions by arguing that they separated labor from the nation, that labor would then pursue its own aims with no regard for the larger community and would become agents of a foreign power (which is true historically).
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Economic Fascism is an interesting write-up. Corporatism was very popular in the US and Britain in the 1920s and 1930s. People saw it as the future. "A version of economic fascism was in fact adopted in the United States in the 1930s and survives to this day. In the United States these policies were not called 'fascism' but 'planned capitalism.' ...The evil deeds of individual fascists were later condemned, but the practice of economic fascism never was." Whereas classical liberalism put the individual before the state, fascism put the state before the individual, same as communism, similar to today's political milieu.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    The Nazis justified banning labor unions by arguing that they separated labor from the nation, that labor would then pursue its own aims with no regard for the larger community and would become agents of a foreign power (which is true historically).
    Which ideas were communist, and communism was seen as the main enemy by the Nazis.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Well, fascism, with its corporatist structure included both employers and workers in each corporation* while socialism would replace owners with workers.

    (*I read the other day that that was the plan but employers and workers resisted working together so each corporation was split into an owners component and a workers component. Workers were represented by unions if I recall correctly.)

    As to Nazism adopting fascism, the 25-point “Programme of the Party” adopted in 1925 promised corporative institutions but didn't really hold to that as Hitler became dictator. See German Theories of the Corporative State for a brief overview..
    The state corporative in Italy was divided into "groups"; trade unions of any kind were outlawed in both fascist Italy and fascist Germany:
    https://www.counterfire.org/articles...e-trade-unions

    Big Business and fascism worked hand in hand; not necessarily the business choice, but the state was the peak interest. German "corporations" as public investitures go back to the late 18th century. Old English texts on records of Norther Ireland list early settlements as "corporation". Fascism used that same model; it appears.
    Make everything from toy guns that spark, to flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark. Itís easy to see without looking too far, that not much is really sacred.
    Thomas Jefferson (to Richard Price) January 8. 1789 "...wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their own government..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    The state corporative in Italy was divided into "groups"; trade unions of any kind were outlawed in both fascist Italy and fascist Germany:
    https://www.counterfire.org/articles...e-trade-unions

    Big Business and fascism worked hand in hand; not necessarily the business choice, but the state was the peak interest. German "corporations" as public investitures go back to the late 18th century. Old English texts on records of Norther Ireland list early settlements as "corporation". Fascism used that same model; it appears.
    The state corporative in Italy was divided into "groups"; trade unions of any kind were outlawed in both fascist Italy and fascist Germany
    Yea, thanks for repeating what I'd posted.

    ...not necessarily the business choice, but the state was the peak interest. German "corporations" as public investitures go back to the late 18th century. Old English texts on records of Norther Ireland list early settlements as "corporation". Fascism used that same model; it appears.
    Yes, some previous posts indicate such a long history of the idea of corporatism.

    Big Business and fascism worked hand in hand...
    Corporatism is not the collusion of government and corporations we see today. This thread is a correction of the misunderstanding.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Yea, thanks for repeating what I'd posted.



    Yes, some previous posts indicate such a long history of the idea of corporatism.



    Corporatism is not the collusion of government and corporations we see today. This thread is a correction of the misunderstanding.
    I don't see how this country has ever subscribed to corporatism then or now.
    Make everything from toy guns that spark, to flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark. Itís easy to see without looking too far, that not much is really sacred.
    Thomas Jefferson (to Richard Price) January 8. 1789 "...wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their own government..."

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