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    Fascism

    In the following video, libertarian comedian Dave Smith jumps all over a liberal about the meaning of fascism.



    Hers was the usual liberal revision. But so was his.

    He paraphrases Mussolini's "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." But he too misinderstands "corporation." Under fascism the word does not denote the modern legal/economic notion of corporation.

    Following THE DOCTRINE OF FASCISM BENITO MUSSOLINI (1932), we have from Mussolini:

    Conception of a corporative state

    ...The Ministry of Corporations is not a bureaucratic organ, nor does it wish to exercise the functions of syndical organizations which are necessarily independent, since they aim at organizing, selecting and improving the members of syndicates. The Ministry of Corporations is an institution in virtue of which, in the centre and outside, integral corporation becomes an accomplished fact, where balance is achieved between interests and forces of the economic world. Such a glance is only possible within the sphere of the state, because the state alone transcends the contrasting interests of groups and individuals, in view of co-coordinating them to achieve higher aims. The achievement of these aims is speeded up by the fact that all economic organizations, acknowledged, safeguarded and supported by the Corporative State, exist within the orbit of Fascism; in other terms they accept the conception of Fascism in theory and in practice. (speech at the opening of the Ministry of Corporations, July 31, 1926, in Di*scorsi del 1926, Milano, Alpes, 1927, p. 250).

    We have constituted a Corporative and Fascist state, the state of national society, a State which concentrates, controls, harmonizes and tempers the interests of all social classes, which are thereby protected in equal measure. Whereas, during the years of demo-liberal regime, labour looked with diffidence upon the state, was, in fact, outside the State and against the state, and considered the state an enemy of every day and every hour, there is not one working Italian today who does not seek a place in his Corporation or federation, who does not wish to be a living atom of that great, immense, living organization which is the national Corporate State of Fascism. (On the Fourth Anniversary of the March on Rome, October 28, 1926, in Discorsi del 1926, Milano, Alpes, 1927, p. 340).
    The Economic System of Corporatism explains:

    In the last half of the 19th century people of the working class in Europe were beginning to show interest in the ideas of socialism and syndicalism. Some members of the intelligentsia, particularly the Catholic intelligentsia, decided to formulate an alternative to socialism which would emphasize social justice without the radical solution of the abolition of private property. The result was called Corporatism. The name had nothing to do with the notion of a business corporation except that both words are derived from the Latin word for body, corpus.

    The basic idea of corporatism is that the society and economy of a country should be organized into major interest groups (sometimes called corporations) and representatives of those interest groups settle any problems through negotiation and joint agreement. In contrast to a market economy which operates through competition a corporate economic works through collective bargaining....

    Under corporatism the labor force and management in an industry belong to an industrial organization. The representatives of labor and management settle wage issues through collective negotiation....

    ...Sylvia Ann Hewlett in her book, The Cruel Dilemmas of Development: Twentieth Century Brazil, says,
    Corporatism is based on a body of ideas that can be traced through Aristotle, Roman law, medieval social and legal structures, and into contemporary Catholic social philosophy. These ideas are based on the premise that man's nature can only be fulfilled within a political community.

    ...The central core of the corporatist vision is thus not the individual but the political community whose perfection allows the individual members to fulfill themselves and find happiness....
    It should be noted that the Catholic notion of corporatism entailed a bottom-up organization of society whereas Mussolini's was top-down politically.

    Corporatism paraphrasing Mark Mazower, Dark Continent: Europe's 20th Century:

    A fascist corporation is a government body that brings together federations of workers and employers syndicates belonging to the same profession and branch, to regulate production in a holistic manner. Each trade union would theoretically represent its professional concerns, especially by negotiation of labour contracts and the like. It was theorized that this method could result in harmony amongst social classes.
    According to corporatism:

    ...The practical work of creating Italian fascist syndicates and corporations began immediately after Mussoliniís March on Rome in 1922. Italian industrial employers initially refused to cooperate in mixed syndicates or in a single confederation of corporations. A compromise was arranged that called for pairs of syndical confederations in each major field of production, one for employers and one for employees; each pair was to determine the collective labour contracts for all workers and employers in its field. The confederations were to be unified under a ministry of corporations that would have final authority. This so-called constitution for the corporate state was promulgated on April 3, 1926.

    The formation of mixed syndical organs or corporations, which was the central aim of the corporative reform, had to wait until 1934, when a decree created 22 corporationsóeach for a particular field of economic activity (categoria) and each responsible not only for the administration of labour contracts but also for the promotion of the interests of its field in general. At the head of each corporation was a council, on which employers and employees had equal representation. To coordinate the work of the corporations, Mussoliniís government created a central corporative committee, which turned out in practice to be indistinguishable from the ministry of corporations. In 1936 the national Council of Corporations met as the successor to the Chamber of Deputies and as Italyís supreme legislative body. The council was composed of 823 members, 66 of whom represented the Fascist Party; the remainder comprised representatives of the employer and employee confederations, distributed among the 22 corporations. The creation of this body was heralded as the completion of the legal structure of the corporate state. However, the system was broken by the onset of World War II.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    What happened to the Civil Liberties Left?

    What happened to the anti-Big Pharma/Big Corporations Left?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    In the following video, libertarian comedian Dave Smith jumps all over a liberal about the meaning of fascism.



    Hers was the usual liberal revision. But so was his.

    He paraphrases Mussolini's "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." But he too misinderstands "corporation." Under fascism the word does not denote the modern legal/economic notion of corporation.

    Following THE DOCTRINE OF FASCISM BENITO MUSSOLINI (1932), we have from Mussolini:



    The Economic System of Corporatism explains:



    It should be noted that the Catholic notion of corporatism entailed a bottom-up organization of society whereas Mussolini's was top-down politically.

    Corporatism paraphrasing Mark Mazower, Dark Continent: Europe's 20th Century:



    According to corporatism:
    Here's what kills your idea that fascism is by any means leftist in ideology:

    From the Mussolini's Doctrine -
    After socialism, Fascism trains its guns on the whole block of democratic ideologies, and rejects both their premises and their practical applications and implements. Fascism denies that numbers, as such, can be the determining factor in human society; it denies the right of numbers to govern by means of periodical consultations; it asserts the irremediable and fertile and beneficent inequality of men who cannot be leveled by any such mechanical and extrinsic device as universal suffrage. Democratic regimes may be described as those under which the people are, from time to time, deluded into the belief that they exercise sovereignty, while all the time real sovereignty resides in and is exercised by other and sometimes irresponsible and secret forces. Democracy is a kingless regime infested by many kings who are sometimes more exclusive, tyrannical, and destructive than one, even if he be a tyrant.
    Make everything from toy guns that spark, to flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark. Itís easy to see without looking too far, that not much is really sacred.
    Thomas Jefferson (to Richard Price) January 8. 1789 "...wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their own government..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Here's what kills your idea that fascism is by any means leftist in ideology:

    From the Mussolini's Doctrine -
    That has nothing to do with the topic which is a correction of the misconception that corporations under fascism were modern-day corporations. Get with the topic or be gone.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    That has nothing to do with the topic which is a correction of the misconception that corporations under fascism were modern-day corporations. Get with the topic or be gone.
    Was there ever a socialist state that was democratic? Any that were not hierarchical?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Was there ever a socialist state that was democratic? Any that were not hierarchical?
    No, that's the promise next time. Fascism's corporative structure was more democratic.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    I started Hitler's Revolution. It's interesting to see what the Nazis themselves were actually saying. They considered National Socialism the only true socialism. They argued that Marxist inspired class hatred divided communities and set people against one another.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Mind you, I am coming to question whether National Socialism was fascism.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Mind you, I am coming to question whether National Socialism was fascism.
    Not initially. I think the Nazis started off with a national version of socialism. Under Hitler they then adopted some of fascism, which wasn't socialism at all. In time they abandoned that and just followed Hitler's megalomania.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Not initially. I think the Nazis started off with a national version of socialism. Under Hitler they then adopted some of fascism, which wasn't socialism at all. In time they abandoned that and just followed Hitler's megalomania.
    That's not to say that fascism and socialism aren't closely related both theoretically and practically but NS is kind of a unique animal.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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