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Thread: The Freedom of Information Act.

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    The Freedom of Information Act.

    What is it really ?

    We elect a government to run our national affairs , as citizens of advanced modern societies and countries . What possible reason do they have for being able to "legally" keep secrets from us ? The "Freedom of Information Act" seems more like a legal mechanism for our elected leaders to tell us lies with impunity . We find out the truth many many years after the event - and by then , it's too late , the damage has been done , and everyone has moved on . Why has this become so acceptable to most people ?

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    FindersKeepers's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJL View Post
    What is it really ?

    We elect a government to run our national affairs , as citizens of advanced modern societies and countries . What possible reason do they have for being able to "legally" keep secrets from us ? The "Freedom of Information Act" seems more like a legal mechanism for our elected leaders to tell us lies with impunity . We find out the truth many many years after the event - and by then , it's too late , the damage has been done , and everyone has moved on . Why has this become so acceptable to most people ?
    The FOIA isn't perfect by a long shot, but it's a step in the right direction.

    If you want to talk about leaders who tell lies with impunity--focus on China.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    The FOIA isn't perfect by a long shot, but it's a step in the right direction.

    If you want to talk about leaders who tell lies with impunity--focus on China.
    A law that allows elected governments to cover things up and not tell us the truth , is a "step in the right direction" ? .....yeah , OK .
    Last edited by PJL; 09-18-2021 at 09:32 AM.

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    There is much information that governments hold that is appropriately held in secret. The government holds much Personal Identifying Information, healthcare and financial of taxpayers. The government holds personnel information of its employees. The government holds proprietary and trade secrets much like any business. The government holds investigatory materials. The government holds national security materials.


    FOIA (passed in 1966) and the states' counterparts (including Open Meetings Laws) are critical in the maintenance of a free and transparent society. I have litigated and presented dozens of Public Records Acts cases. Ohio courts take the position that they are my records, the exceptions are narrow and it is the government's job to store them so that they can find them and give them to me. Period.


    I am aware that 2007/08 China enacted its very first open records statute. They are having the same challenges that we face (but I applaud the CCP for enacting the statute - the challenge is in the disclosures). Russia did so in 2009. Australia in 1982.
    Last edited by DGUtley; 09-18-2021 at 09:55 AM.
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  5. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DGUtley For This Useful Post:

    carolina73 (09-18-2021),FindersKeepers (09-18-2021),Peter1469 (09-18-2021)

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    But how would you like to be a mistaken target of a probe and have your name splashed all over the front page of newspapers. Then a week later have them say they mixed up the paperwork and had the wrong person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    There is much information that governments hold that is appropriately held in secret. The government holds much Personal Identifying Information, healthcare and financial of taxpayers. The government holds personnel information of its employees. The government holds proprietary and trade secrets much like any business. The government holds investigatory materials. The government holds national security materials.


    FOIA (passed in 1966) and the states' counterparts (including Open Meetings Laws) are critical in the maintenance of a free and transparent society. I have litigated and presented dozens of Public Records Acts cases. Ohio courts take the position that they are my records, the exceptions are narrow and it is the government's job to store them so that they can find them and give them to me. Period.


    I am aware that 2007/08 China enacted its very first open records statute. They are having the same challenges that we face (but I applaud the CCP for enacting the statute - the challenge is in the disclosures). Russia did so in 2009. Australia in 1982.
    My problem with the FOIA is that it's being abuused constantly by governments to avoid telling the truth about things that should not be kept from the public . It's being abused constantly in a very bad spirit that only encourages people to lose faith in the governments they elect , and it's destroying the very fabric at the core of democracy itself ......The law was never meant to be a protection for liars , but it has become exactly that .

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJL View Post
    My problem with the FOIA is that it's being abuused constantly by governments to avoid telling the truth about things that should not be kept from the public . It's being abused constantly in a very bad spirit that only encourages people to lose faith in the governments they elect , and it's destroying the very fabric at the core of democracy itself ......The law was never meant to be a protection for liars , but it has become exactly that .

    I'm curious - are you speaking Australia's FOIA? The US? China? Russia? Who's? What is your basis for saying the US's is being abused (if that is what you are saying)?


    Everyone's?

    Abused isn't the correct term but I do agree that it isn't followed - but that's why we have courts and organizations that sue the government. In Ohio, you get attorneys fees - and the government knows it. The City of Akron got hit with monstrous attorney fee bill for failing to produce 3 pages of innocuous information. It is not the government's information - it belongs to me. When Hillary destroyed her emails, she destroyed my emails. When Trump was ordered not to delete his tweets - he was ordered not to delete my tweets. There are processes and procedures for review - follow them.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    I'm curious - are you speaking Australia's FOIA? The US? China? Russia? Who's? What is your basis for saying the US's is being abused (if that is what you are saying)?


    Everyone's?

    Abused isn't the correct term but I do agree that it isn't followed - but that's why we have courts and organizations that sue the government. In Ohio, you get attorneys fees - and the government knows it. The City of Akron got hit with monstrous attorney fee bill for failing to produce 3 pages of innocuous information. It is not the government's information - it belongs to me. When Hillary destroyed her emails, she destroyed my emails. When Trump was ordered not to delete his tweets - he was ordered not to delete my tweets. There are processes and procedures for review - follow them.
    I didn't know China or Russia had FOI acts until you posted it . I'm familiar with AU act and US act . Like many things , these laws seem to be enacted for disclosed reasons , then lay there waiting for the abuse to begin much later - like it's a part of some future plan . The Patriot Act for instance ....if that starts getting abused to the to level that's possible , it amounts to BIG future problems.......years back in Australia data retention laws began being introduced incrementally by stealth . What we now have in Aus in not unlike the Patriot Act , and using covid as the new excuse , the abuse has begun.....before Covid come along , the regular excuse was to " fight terrorism" , or " fight organized crime" or to " prevent child exploitation" . The powers-that-be , always adapt to the current times , but it seems to always end up as part of a long term plan to erode public freedoms and priviledges or increase the power of those in control.....project 10 years ahead , and it becomes scary .

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