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Thread: Max Weber & Modernity

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    Max Weber & Modernity

    See D's What did Medieval monks do all day? for Catholic influences. Weber focuses on Protestant influences.

    I won't vouch for the accuracy of the video "Max Weber & Modernity" but I think it captures Weber well enough.

    On the subtopic of the modernist change from traditionalism to rationalism, or rationalization, which includes calculability, methodical behavior, and reflexivity. Calculability is if you know the inputs, you can know the inputs. Science? Methodical behavior is determined by bureaucracy, it is mindless, meaningless. Reflexivity, is looking inward to the individual rather than outward to your place in society.

    Take the time to give it a view, only 10 minutes.

    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    See D's What did Medieval monks do all day? for Catholic influences. Weber focuses on Protestant influences.

    I won't vouch for the accuracy of the video "Max Weber & Modernity" but I think it captures Weber well enough.

    On the subtopic of the modernist change from traditionalism to rationalism, or rationalization, which includes calculability, methodical behavior, and reflexivity. Calculability is if you know the inputs, you can know the inputs. Science? Methodical behavior is determined by bureaucracy, it is mindless, meaningless. Reflexivity, is looking inward to the individual rather than outward to your place in society.

    Take the time to give it a view, only 10 minutes.

    So let's see; Protestantism started capitalism... Capitalism was present in Europe during the Middle Ages. Protestantism gave rise to the questioning of authority in the "introspective" realm. Sweeny's video is crammed full of fast talk with out much attention to the subject. A crash course in anything should be fluent and articulated in a such way for instance here, where modernity as a thought process is not glossed over to make room for several rushed together thoughts that have more to do with what modernity really is rather than what it affected.

    And posting Marx's examination makes your theses unbalanced and lacking. It is also interesting that Sweeny chooses the DMV as an example of bureaucracy, though method and repetitive action: like installing a fender at a car factory... Corporations (see Amazon), don't care who or what you are and are procedure overdosed to cover liabilities. THAT too is missing.

    I still don't know what your point is, as there is nothing to compare any of your OP too as an example of why you might be right and say Marx wrong...

    Class, income and status have been around since the days of Sumer and the Priests, so Sweeny tells us nothing new there either.
    Make everything from toy guns that spark, to flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark. Itís easy to see without looking too far, that not much is really sacred.
    Thomas Jefferson (to Richard Price) January 8. 1789 "...wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their own government..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    So let's see; Protestantism started capitalism... Capitalism was present in Europe during the Middle Ages. Protestantism gave rise to the questioning of authority in the "introspective" realm. Sweeny's video is crammed full of fast talk with out much attention to the subject. A crash course in anything should be fluent and articulated in a such way for instance here, where modernity as a thought process is not glossed over to make room for several rushed together thoughts that have more to do with what modernity really is rather than what it affected.

    And posting Marx's examination makes your theses unbalanced and lacking. It is also interesting that Sweeny chooses the DMV as an example of bureaucracy, though method and repetitive action: like installing a fender at a car factory... Corporations (see Amazon), don't care who or what you are and are procedure overdosed to cover liabilities. THAT too is missing.

    I still don't know what your point is, as there is nothing to compare any of your OP too as an example of why you might be right and say Marx wrong...

    Class, income and status have been around since the days of Sumer and the Priests, so Sweeny tells us nothing new there either.

    You really had trouble understanding the video.

    It doesn't say Protestantism started capitalism but did promote it. Catholicism came before as an influence.

    Capitalism replaced the mercantilism of feudal Europe. While its root go back further, it emerged during the Enlightenment.

    I posted nothing in the OP about Marx.

    While repetitive method works for the production of goods like cars, it doesn't work politically like at the DMV.

    The point was simply an introduction to Weber. Nothing was said in the OP about Marx. Sweeny was only talking about Weber's sociology.

    Address the topic or post elsewhere.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    You really had trouble understanding the video.

    It doesn't say Protestantism started capitalism but did promote it. Catholicism came before as an influence.

    Capitalism replaced the mercantilism of feudal Europe. While its root go back further, it emerged during the Enlightenment.

    I posted nothing in the OP about Marx.

    While repetitive method works for the production of goods like cars, it doesn't work politically like at the DMV.

    The point was simply an introduction to Weber. Nothing was said in the OP about Marx. Sweeny was only talking about Weber's sociology.

    Address the topic or post elsewhere.
    Capitalism replaced the mercantilism of feudal Europe. While its root go back further, it emerged during the Enlightenment.


    Yeah, we all know that, but how come your video didn't point it out? And I told you when capitalism as a practice showed up, so I had no trouble with your video other than a word salad that would rival any fast talker who says a whole lot of nothing. And the DMV is NOT political.

    You posted nothing in the OP about Marx because you want to present one sided arguments in any subject you enter into. And if you don't understand protestantism any better than that, then you need to hit the books.


    Make everything from toy guns that spark, to flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark. Itís easy to see without looking too far, that not much is really sacred.
    Thomas Jefferson (to Richard Price) January 8. 1789 "...wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their own government..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah, we all know that, but how come your video didn't point it out? And I told you when capitalism as a practice showed up, so I had no trouble with your video other than a word salad that would rival any fast talker who says a whole lot of nothing. And the DMV is NOT political.

    You posted nothing in the OP about Marx because you want to present one sided arguments in any subject you enter into. And if you don't understand protestantism any better than that, then you need to hit the books.


    [/COLOR]
    Jet: "Capitalism was present in Europe during the Middle Ages."
    Chris: "Capitalism replaced the mercantilism of feudal Europe."
    Jet: "Yeah, we all know that...."

    Not according to your first statement.


    The DMV is a bureaucratic product of modern politics.


    The video was not about capitalism (or Marx) but about Weber and his views of modernity.

    Try to address the topic or be gone.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Jet: "Capitalism was present in Europe during the Middle Ages."
    Chris: "Capitalism replaced the mercantilism of feudal Europe."
    Jet: "Yeah, we all know that...."

    Not according to your first statement.


    The DMV is a bureaucratic product of modern politics.


    The video was not about capitalism (or Marx) but about Weber and his views of modernity.

    Try to address the topic or be gone.
    Yeah, I told you first. You had to cover your mistake. The DMV is a federally and state run department of transportation and the regulations and laws that adhere to it. I got my heavy duty license in 1978 so I know about the DMV.

    And I have addressed the topic since my first post.
    Make everything from toy guns that spark, to flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark. Itís easy to see without looking too far, that not much is really sacred.
    Thomas Jefferson (to Richard Price) January 8. 1789 "...wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their own government..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah, I told you first. You had to cover your mistake. The DMV is a federally and state run department of transportation and the regulations and laws that adhere to it. I got my heavy duty license in 1978 so I know about the DMV.

    And I have addressed the topic since my first post.

    You told me capitalism existed during the Middle Ages. It didn't. It emerged with the Enlightenment, the Industrial Age.

    You, on topic? Weber was a critic of capitalism. Of democracy as well, though he advocated parliamentarism because it provided better political leaders than bureaucracy.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    You told me capitalism existed during the Middle Ages. It didn't. It emerged with the Enlightenment, the Industrial Age.

    You, on topic? Weber was a critic of capitalism. Of democracy as well, though he advocated parliamentarism because it provided better political leaders than bureaucracy.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/capitalism
    Although the continuous development of capitalism as a system dates only from the 16th century, antecedents of capitalist institutions existed in the ancient world, and flourishing pockets of capitalism were present in Europe during the later Middle Ages.
    Make everything from toy guns that spark, to flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark. Itís easy to see without looking too far, that not much is really sacred.
    Thomas Jefferson (to Richard Price) January 8. 1789 "...wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their own government..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post

    tPF Thread Ban - Note: The Mods do not substitute their judgment for that of the OP as to whether a rule has been violated and will defer to the OP. See Rule 10 for further details.

    @jet57 banned by OP for off topic and/or trolling



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    Another video on Weber.



    It says the Protestant Work Ethic involves people proving to God their worth. According to Raymond Aron, Main Currents in Sociological Thought, it had to do with proving to others their salvation was determined.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
    Louis Brandeis,Dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1928)

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