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Thread: They are convinced Fascism Works!

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    They are convinced Fascism Works!

    WARNING: Sensible People may find the following very disturbing. It is not hard to imagine a similar document circulating as COVID Vaccination Policy in the Biden White House. The WIRED article is not about the proper way to deal with COVID while having respect for the individual. It is about trickery and coercion at all costs.




    What Can Convince People to Just Get Vaccinated Already?






    How do we get to yes?

    Which is to say: How can public health experts and policymakers convince the persistently recalcitrant fraction of people who haven’t gotten vaccinated against Covid-19? It’s the key to ending the pandemic, and a brutal irony in the United States, one of the few countries with the money and wherewithal to have enough of the drug for every citizen. Yet still, something like 25 percent of US adults and teens haven’t done it. Or maybe more relevantly, between 15 and 30 percent of US residents tell pollsters and researchers that they will never get one—nope, nuh-uh, no way.

    More than 700,000 Americans and more than 5 million people around the world have died from the disease. Vaccines against it reduce illness, deaths, and transmission. It’d be very good to get unvaccinated people to become vaccinated people.

    But how?

    One theory says: If someone could just find the exact combination of words, that might bring people around. Another idea is that vaccination should be mandatory. Carrots versus sticks, nudges versus shoves.

    The literature on finding those perfect conceptual frames is a years-old canon. (Oh, you like hesitating about vaccines? Check out this T-shirt from resisting the human papillomavirus vaccine mandate.) But Covid is new, and the pandemic has been fast-moving and protean; that has made it frustratingly hard to assemble a coherent, effective public health campaign in the US, where resistance to vaccination (and other measures, like masks) has taken many forms.......


    A few months later—early 2021—the same researchers did another
    study, a randomized trial of 18,855 people. This time, they measured the effectiveness of 10 different kinds of messages on people’s stated willingness to get vaccinated. (The control group just heard the basic UK National Health System spiel: That the vaccines are safe, effective, and protect against Covid.) Telling people that vaccines help prevent them from transmitting the virus to others, that it was safe even though it had a speedy development process, or that the pandemic is really bad and everyone getting vaccinated would help end it sooner—none of that worked. The only thing that moved the needle was emphasizing the personal benefits of getting the shot: It makes it less likely that you will get sick. Less likely that you
    will die.

    Another survey, this one of a representative sample of 3,048 US residents last summer, similarly compared changes in intent-to-vaccinate after hearing language about vaccine safety, private benefit, social benefit, and economic benefit—sometimes in combination with each other. (A single basic message about rigorous testing of the vaccines in trials functioned as the control.) The biggest boost by far was in the private-benefit group; as the journal article about the research noted, even though vaccine-resistant people often cite concerns about safety and side effects, in practice the this-is-safe message did only slightly better than the control.

    The Civis researchers found much the same thing. “We have tested that kind of framing in the past. With wearing a mask, for instance, we found that personal benefit was far more effective to talk about than protection of others,” says Crystal Son, director of health care analytics at Civis. “When we tested messages talking about the importance of mask use, one of them was: ‘Wear it for grandma.’ That one was zero percent effective, and had a high probability of negative backlash.”

    Son’s team found more subtle effects in their most recent vaccine research. In similar Civis research a year ago, telling people that Covid vaccines might keep children from getting sick didn’t seem to change anyone’s mind; now, with most kids back in school and vaccine approval for kids looking more imminent, it did.

    But in trial after trial, the only reliable way to convince vaccine-resistant folks to get vaccinated is to tell them it’ll benefit them personally.

    So I’m a schmuck, basically. Since the beginning of the pandemic, I’ve been writing about how disasters actually make people work together, and how cooperation is the only way out of all this. In just about every story I wrote about vaccines once they became available, I’d add some boilerplate about how they were safe and effective, and that while vaccines would keep each of us safer, the best reason to get them was that they helped each of us protect us all. What a waste of pixels.

    Here’s the weird part: People resisted entreaties, messages, even prizes. But when the hard-assed mandates started to slam down—get vaccinated or lose your job—the volume of complaints didn’t change, but the volume of vaccinations did. They worked. Lots of those people who said they’d never, nope, nuh-uh get vaccinated? Poll numbers showed percentages of “never” in the teens and “only if you make me” in the single digits. After mandates, those conditions flipped—it turns out the “nevers” were the much smaller group.

    So what happened? Was there a different, successful message somehow embedded in the mandates? (Beyond, you know, “Do it.”) Or were the never-gonnas … lying?

    To an armchair statistician, the numbers suggest it’s the second thing. Faced with the possibility of losing their jobs, the holdouts did not hold out. At United Airlines, just about 300 out of 67,000 US employees lost their jobs rather than get vaccinated. Of 26,500 people working for UCHealth in Colorado, just 100 said no. In California, where a mandate applies to all health care workers, 97 percent of Kaiser Permanente’s 216,000 employees got it; the company suspended 2,000 who didn’t. San Francisco has 35,000 city employees; just about 2,000 remain unvaccinated. Of New York City’s 150,000 public school employees, 99 percent of principals, 96 percent of teachers, and 94 percent of staff got it. New York state has more than 650,000 hospital and nursing home workers, and by the time the mandate there went into effect, 92 percent had gotten at least one dose—up 10 points from a week before. Tyson Foods went from 50 percent of its 120,000 US employees vaccinated in early August, when it announced a mandate, to 91 percent by the end of September. A long but incomplete list of companies with mandates includes Google, Facebook, Twitter, Goldman Sachs, Walgreens, Disney, and Morgan Stanley. Conde Nast, WIRED’s parent company, has one too.

    Arguably, the message in all those mandates is something like: “Our organizational values include safety and care for others, and you are part of the organization, soooooo …” Or alternatively, maybe the effective message is: “You will lose your livelihood if you don’t get vaccinated.”

    The nudge-versus-shove dichotomy is probably a false one. It’s about differences within the vaccine-resistant group, which turns out to be not a monolith at all. And it’s about the multiple ways that public health campaigns reach multiple audiences......


    Changes in the pandemic change people’s opinions. According to KFF, 56 percent of unvaccinated workers say they’d choose the alternative to vaccination built into the federal version of the mandate, which is getting a weekly Covid test; 12 percent say they’ll take the vaccine. The Delta surge pushed vaccination uptake of at least a single dose in the US from 67 percent to 72 percent, and the number of people making the (let’s face it, preposterous at this point) argument of “wait and see” to just 7 percent. But KFF still shows 4 percent saying they’ll only get vaccinated if required, and 12 percent saying they definitely won’t. That’s the opposite of what seems to actually happen when mandates hit. (Though technically if you get vaccinated because otherwise you’ll lose your job, that counts as a personal benefit, in a way.)

    So it’s mandates for everyone, right? Maybe not. “Nudges are more about allowing authorities to direct the population in a positive direction by providing options,” says Mark Donald C. Reñosa, an epidemiology and biostatistics researcher at the Research Institute for Tropical Medicine in Manila and co-lead author of a recent review of nudgey vaccine interventions. “Shoves tend to be complicated, oftentimes use more resources, are expensive, and carry greater risk of failure.” Even though polls show most people in the US generally favor mandates, they can also (as some who oppose them have warned) crystallize opposition.

    The difficult slalom, as I’ve written, is that mandates only work if they’re done right—less a shove, more a hug. They have to come with time off work to account for possible short-lived side effects, with education campaigns, with easy access to vaccination sites, with clear explanations. “Mandates work well if they’re not draconian,” says Saad Omer, director of the Yale Institute for Global Health and a vaccine mandates expert. “If you turn down the pressure valve altogether, a large chunk of people find ways to avoid the mandate. But the balance of convenience should be in favor of vaccination and away from non-vaccination.”

    Timing matters too. None of these mandates would have worked nearly as well, Omer says, if they’d gone into effect this January, right alongside the arrival of the vaccines themselves. Public health interventions need time and encouragement to grow into becoming social norms and habits. Once all that gets in place, if there are still people who just don’t wanna, then the mandates do their work. “You don’t get from 30 percent to 80 percent with a mandate,” he says. “You go from 70 percent to 90 percent.”

    In other words, the buffet of options has to be plates full of lots of different kinds of carrots, and very well curated sticks. That’s why all the different methods of communication, all the different types of messages aimed at different kinds of people, have to continue even in the face of resistance. “That’s the basic responsibility of government—to communicate effectively around a public health intervention, even if it’s also a mandate,” Omer says. “There was communication around seat belt effectiveness. We never stopped communicating until it became a social norm and a habit, not just ‘It’s the law.’” Those people who said they’d never get a shot and then turned around and got one weren't being deceptive. They were just, as Omer puts it, poor approximators of their future behavior. They needed the right inducement and the space to get there.

    The job isn’t over yet. Omer warns that these halcyon days of mandate compliance could crumble again in the next few months, if approvals for a kids’ Covid vaccine lead to school districts adding it to the list required for enrollment, as the state of California already has. “Not everybody has to work with a large employer, but everyone has to send their kids to school,” Omer says. “I am not sure that political leaders recognize what’s coming. I still think if it’s done appropriately, I think it’s still the right thing to do, but they better be prepared.” (Especially if the resistance isn’t the garden-variety anti-vaccine sentiment familiar from the Before Times but is, as The Washington Post has reported, an astroturfed proxy war funded by the usual conservative superpowers, including the Koch, DeVos, and Walton families.) The political divide will be there; the language for supporting the mandates has to be there too. The road to yes, it seems, is long and winding.

    What Can Convince People to Just Get Vaccinated Already? (msn.com)



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    Nudge gives the illusion of choice.

    Instead, use words to persuade and then leave the choice to each person.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Officials know they will not get over an 80% vaccination rate.

    Biden has said that he will not stop with mandates until he gets 97%.

    This is an admission that he plans to use force on the American public who better fight back now against the clown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Nudge gives the illusion of choice.

    Instead, use words to persuade and then leave the choice to each person.
    It really is just as simple as that. What the Biden administration is currently doing is by design. They are purposefully messaging this in such a way as to make Trump supporters dig their heels in, and refuse to get vaccinated. They literally want them to die.
    Cutesy Time is OVER

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    The Key here is Propaganda (whatever messaging works best) and Coercion when that falls short. It is how the Nazis in Germany and the Soviets operated in many ways. The studied what works (truth or no) just as the above suggests.

    And I love that argument that NOT Losing your job is a personal benefit. Just like NOT having the humiliation of constant COVID testing or NOT being Kicked out of School, ect....




    I heard last night that soon in LA County you will not be able to got to a Bar or Concert without vaccination. Recent COVID testing option will be eliminated in November.
    Last edited by RMNIXON; 10-09-2021 at 01:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    It really is just as simple as that. What the Biden administration is currently doing is by design. They are purposefully messaging this in such a way as to make Trump supporters dig their heels in, and refuse to get vaccinated. They literally want them to die.

    The Left have been wishing for the death of Conservatives for decades now.

    That is why progressives go after school children as soon as possible. Turning out WOKE activists without a clue about the consequences of what they are doing or promoting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    It really is just as simple as that. What the Biden administration is currently doing is by design. They are purposefully messaging this in such a way as to make Trump supporters dig their heels in, and refuse to get vaccinated. They literally want them to die.
    But they are not likely to die from COVID.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    But they are not likely to die from COVID.
    Did you notice how the entire case for total vaccination is based on a false claim at the beginning of the article?

    Which is to say: How can public health experts and policymakers convince the persistently recalcitrant fraction of people who haven’t gotten vaccinated against Covid-19? It’s the key to ending the pandemic.....

    We already know that vaccinated people still get and spread COVID so how is 100% vaccination ending this pandemic or any other flu related virus for that matter? No such nonsense has ever been suggested before to my knowledge, but there you have it as justification for manipulating the general public and forcing people to get vaccinated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    It really is just as simple as that. What the Biden administration is currently doing is by design. They are purposefully messaging this in such a way as to make Trump supporters dig their heels in, and refuse to get vaccinated. They literally want them to die.
    Well, it's not a very good strategy, since the virus has over a 99% survival rate. I think it's more about what happens when a regime becomes drunk on power. They become less and less able to understand why anyone would resist them. It truly baffles them. They are so accustomed to getting what they want that when the encounter actual resistance, they become increasingly unhinged. This is just what happens when a group becomes too powerful. They become arrogant, erratic, and entitled.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    It really is just as simple as that. What the Biden administration is currently doing is by design. They are purposefully messaging this in such a way as to make Trump supporters dig their heels in, and refuse to get vaccinated. They literally want them to die.
    conspiracy theory.jpg

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