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Thread: U.S. Warns Europe That Russia May Be Planning Ukraine Invasion.......

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    pjohns's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Many people hold that position. No nation does.
    Are we, then, to respect the position of these nations' leaders over and above the general view of their people?

    That certainly sounds elitist to me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Why would I?
    You juxtaposed "the paranoia that western media blames Putin’s behavior on" against Russia's actual motives--with the former coming in a distant second place...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    I don't want Russia to go to war should NATO decide to let Ukraine in, I am telling you with 100% certainty that they will.
    Do you really--truly--believe that Russia would "go to war" if Ukraine were allowed into NATO?

    That sounds almost as if you actually believe that Russia is just looking for an excuse to go to war with NATO. Whereas I believe that they wish to avoid it, at all costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Relevance?
    Since you--you--spoke of "the paranoia that western media blames Putin’s behavior on," it is you who made this relevant.

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    carolina73's Avatar Senior Member
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    With Biden as President then who would be afraid of the US doing anything?

    The French say they are willing to fight but for the French that only means they will send in some bombers.
    The U.K. is questionable.
    Germany will not even shut down their pipeline to Russia.
    The rest will offer to bring band-aids.

    That leaves Poland all by themselves as a country willing to put boots on the ground. They have some deep wounds from WWII with the Ukraine.
    Let's go Brandon !!!

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    Tahuyaman's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Russians are rational, but their world view is very different from ours.
    I doubt that the Ukraine joining NATO would cause a war between Russia and NATO forces.
    When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.“ - Benjamin Franklin.


    “When people get used to preferential treatment equal treatment seems like discrimination.” - Thomas Sowell

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJL View Post
    America's biggest current blunder is ignoring the health of the global economy , in order to try and salvage it's declining global influence . Its fighting a losing battle already , and doesn't even have enough oil to fight a major protracted war , and the domestic inflation level would go through the roof and cripple the $USD .
    Stick with subjects you know something about.
    When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.“ - Benjamin Franklin.


    “When people get used to preferential treatment equal treatment seems like discrimination.” - Thomas Sowell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Based on this response I take it you concede my point.
    Well , there's certainly strong elements of agreement ......but " concede" is quite inappropriate , under the circumstances . We are not having a contest here ....at least I'm not.....but you , being an American , are in the habit of claiming victory , regardless of any circumstances involved . Australia played it's role in two WW's , and has nothing to prove to anyone .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Russians are rational, but their world view is very different from ours.
    ....understatement of the year !!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    Are we, then, to respect the position of these nations' leaders over and above the general view of their people?
    I don't pretend to tell individuals what to respect or not to respect.

    In these World Affairs threads I am employing geopolitical analyst of events. I am speaking of how nations interact with each other on the global stage. Nation-states have been the way the international order managed itself since 1648 and the Treaty of Westphalia.


    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    That certainly sounds elitist to me...
    OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    You juxtaposed "the paranoia that western media blames Putin’s behavior on" against Russia's actual motives--with the former coming in a distant second place...
    Where did I do that?

    When I speak of Russia, I am speaking of its sovereign leader and advisors and how Russia will act on the international stage.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    Do you really--truly--believe that Russia would "go to war" if Ukraine were allowed into NATO?
    Yes. In the Russian mind, history has taught them they must in those circumstances where they face an invasion that would lead to millions of Russian deaths and the distinct possibly of the end of Russia. This is what I mean when I use the term existential.

    This is why some Westerners think Russia is irrational. To Russians history intimately governs their thoughts. History informs Russia that the Great European Plain that they live on was the invasion route past enemy powers used to almost destroy Russia.

    To the Western mind this is irrelevant. No sane Westerner believes or wants NATO to follow Napoleon and the Reich's path to Moscow.
    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    That sounds almost as if you actually believe that Russia is just looking for an excuse to go to war with NATO. Whereas I believe that they wish to avoid it, at all costs.
    That is because you are thinking like a Westerner not a Russian.


    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    Since you--you--spoke of "the paranoia that western media blames Putin’s behavior on," it is you who made this relevant.
    I don't recall using the word paranoia. Unless it was in the post from 2014 that I reprinted.

    Regardless what is your point?

    Perhaps what I wrote above in this post helps.
    Last edited by Peter1469; 12-07-2021 at 04:14 AM.
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  11. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    With Biden as President then who would be afraid of the US doing anything?

    The French say they are willing to fight but for the French that only means they will send in some bombers.
    The U.K. is questionable.
    Germany will not even shut down their pipeline to Russia.
    The rest will offer to bring band-aids.

    That leaves Poland all by themselves as a country willing to put boots on the ground. They have some deep wounds from WWII with the Ukraine.
    Poland won't fight for Ukraine. They will beef up their north eastern and eastern borders.

    They certainly don't want a war with Russia. History tells us that Poland has been absorbed by other powers a lot longer than it was a sovereign state.

    They consider their ace in the hole to be Article V of the North Atlantic Treaty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    I doubt that the Ukraine joining NATO would cause a war between Russia and NATO forces.
    That view is shared by the majority of the western peoples.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJL View Post
    Well , there's certainly strong elements of agreement ......but " concede" is quite inappropriate , under the circumstances . We are not having a contest here ....at least I'm not.....but you , being an American , are in the habit of claiming victory , regardless of any circumstances involved . Australia played it's role in two WW's , and has nothing to prove to anyone .
    I never said they didn't play their role, they did and did so heroically. But had the US only fought in the European, North African, and Middle Eastern theatres Australian would have fallen to Japan.

    [Of course the US could not have done that as the loss of control over the Pacific would be unacceptable.]
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